How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[faithhopecharity]

This does not clarify the issue. It confirms it. You are defining salvation as a process in which a man is justified freely, but must afterward preserve himself through works and endurance in order to receive eternal salvation. That makes final salvation depend upon man’s performance.

Your outline begins by inserting meanings into Titus 2:14 that the verse does not give. “Redeem us from all iniquity” is redemption, but “purify unto himself a peculiar people” is not called justification. Justification is God declaring the ungodly righteous through faith in Christ: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Good works follow salvation, but they do not complete it.

You quoted 1 John 5:13, but it contradicts your position: “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” John does not say believers merely have provisional life while waiting to see whether they persevere successfully. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Endurance is necessary, but true believers endure because God preserves them. They are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). Paul said those whom God justified, “them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). No justified person disappears between justification and glorification.

The warning passages call professing believers to examine themselves and continue in the faith. They do not teach that someone born of God, sealed by the Spirit, and given eternal life can become unborn, unsealed, and finally condemned. Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

The issue is not whether believers should obey, suffer, endure, and pursue holiness. They should. The issue is what guarantees their final salvation. Your answer is continued human cooperation. Scripture’s answer is Jesus Christ: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

A long list of verses still does not provide what was requested: one passage teaching that a person truly justified by God and given eternal life can finally perish.

Justification is more than your narrow definition

it including sanctifying grace that makes us holy

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

This does not clarify the issue. It confirms it. You are defining salvation as a process in which a man is justified freely, but must afterward preserve himself through works and endurance in order to receive eternal salvation. That makes final salvation depend upon man’s performance.

Your outline begins by inserting meanings into Titus 2:14 that the verse does not give. “Redeem us from all iniquity” is redemption, but “purify unto himself a peculiar people” is not called justification. Justification is God declaring the ungodly righteous through faith in Christ: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Good works follow salvation, but they do not complete it.

You quoted 1 John 5:13, but it contradicts your position: “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” John does not say believers merely have provisional life while waiting to see whether they persevere successfully. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Endurance is necessary, but true believers endure because God preserves them. They are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). Paul said those whom God justified, “them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). No justified person disappears between justification and glorification.

The warning passages call professing believers to examine themselves and continue in the faith. They do not teach that someone born of God, sealed by the Spirit, and given eternal life can become unborn, unsealed, and finally condemned. Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

The issue is not whether believers should obey, suffer, endure, and pursue holiness. They should. The issue is what guarantees their final salvation. Your answer is continued human cooperation. Scripture’s answer is Jesus Christ: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

A long list of verses still does not provide what was requested: one passage teaching that a person truly justified by God and given eternal life can finally perish.

Justification is more than your narrow definition

it includes

This does not clarify the issue. It confirms it. You are defining salvation as a process in which a man is justified freely, but must afterward preserve himself through works and endurance in order to receive eternal salvation. That makes final salvation depend upon man’s performance.

Your outline begins by inserting meanings into Titus 2:14 that the verse does not give. “Redeem us from all iniquity” is redemption, but “purify unto himself a peculiar people” is not called justification. Justification is God declaring the ungodly righteous through faith in Christ: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Good works follow salvation, but they do not complete it.

You quoted 1 John 5:13, but it contradicts your position: “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” John does not say believers merely have provisional life while waiting to see whether they persevere successfully. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Endurance is necessary, but true believers endure because God preserves them. They are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). Paul said those whom God justified, “them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). No justified person disappears between justification and glorification.

The warning passages call professing believers to examine themselves and continue in the faith. They do not teach that someone born of God, sealed by the Spirit, and given eternal life can become unborn, unsealed, and finally condemned. Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

The issue is not whether believers should obey, suffer, endure, and pursue holiness. They should. The issue is what guarantees their final salvation. Your answer is continued human cooperation. Scripture’s answer is Jesus Christ: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

A long list of verses still does not provide what was requested: one passage teaching that a person truly justified by God and given eternal life can finally perish.

Good works follow salvation defeats the purpose!

Good works unto salvation establishes the purpose!

The means of our salvation is according to the purpose of our creation!

To Know, Love, & serve God!

eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Col 1:9-12

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

grace now! eternal salvation after!

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

rom 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

rom 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

thks

 

[amigo de christo]

Good day to you also! I shall heartily disagree. Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.

We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.

Much love!

you mean to say we are branches of the tree upon WHOM ABRAHAM HAD FAITH IN .
FAITH IN GOD .
a gentile can as can a jew WAIL . and WAIL THEY WILL . for if one denies GOD they will surely wail
and if one thus DENIES HIS CHRIST , oh dear WAIL THEY WILL .
Now it is true that israel is of the lineage of Jacob , thus of issac , thus of abraham .
BUT LETS SEE WHAT THE CHRIST OF GOD said to this lineage
WHEN they failed to BELIEVE ON HIM .
YE are of your father , THE DEVIL . Abraham BELIEVED GOD
and thus if one has the faith of abraham , THEY HAD CLEARLY BELIEVED THE CHRIST OF GOD .
Many gonna wail mark . MANY . and here is who the many will be
ANYONE WHO DENEID JESUS THE CHRIST and anyone who even if they lipped his name
WERE co helpers to the lie . THE LIE that made UNBELIEF okay . SO allow me to warn us all .
Get everyone you know outta anything ecumenical and its inclusive intefaith RIGHT NOW .
THE WHOLE HOUS E is coming DOWN ON JESUS day and everyone who had a part in it , GOING DOWN WITH IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Justification is more than your narrow definition

it including sanctifying grace that makes us holy

thks

and now a word .
IF anyone calls the JUSTIFIER a liar , do know and understand YE are not and cannot be JUSTIFIED .
SO now a word .
Get every man woman and child , donkey and dog outta anything ecumenical and NOW .
You see to call GOD a liar , NOT GOOD .
And here is who calls GOD a liar . HE WHO BLEIEVES NOT the testimony that GOD gave of ..........THE SON .
ONLY that aint what ecumeincal intefaith be saying . IT LIED TO every man woman and child , to every religon
and christendom and said HEY we all serving the same GOD and we all just come to him in different ways .
KINDA ODD dont ya think . AND THEY call that love , and they cliam its of GOD
and they cliam tis the path to PEACE n safety .
THEY DEAD WRONG ON ALL accounts , IT has DENIED THE LOVE OF GOD , IT be NOT OF GOD
and its path is the path to THEIR OWN SUDDEN DES TRUcTION ON JESUS DAY .
GET THEM OUT
WARN A SOUL .
NOW .

 

[bdavidc]

Justification is more than your narrow definition

faithhopecharity I have tried to share the actual truths of the bible with you so you would know them, it seems to me you are just blind to them and keep pushing the same works for final salvation that the scriptures do not teach, I think I have done what I can and now I am putting you on ignore. The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it.

 

[faithhopecharity]

This does not clarify the issue. It confirms it. You are defining salvation as a process in which a man is justified freely, but must afterward preserve himself through works and endurance in order to receive eternal salvation. That makes final salvation depend upon man’s performance.

Your outline begins by inserting meanings into Titus 2:14 that the verse does not give. “Redeem us from all iniquity” is redemption, but “purify unto himself a peculiar people” is not called justification. Justification is God declaring the ungodly righteous through faith in Christ: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Good works follow salvation, but they do not complete it.

You quoted 1 John 5:13, but it contradicts your position: “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” John does not say believers merely have provisional life while waiting to see whether they persevere successfully. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Endurance is necessary, but true believers endure because God preserves them. They are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). Paul said those whom God justified, “them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). No justified person disappears between justification and glorification.

The warning passages call professing believers to examine themselves and continue in the faith. They do not teach that someone born of God, sealed by the Spirit, and given eternal life can become unborn, unsealed, and finally condemned. Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

The issue is not whether believers should obey, suffer, endure, and pursue holiness. They should. The issue is what guarantees their final salvation. Your answer is continued human cooperation. Scripture’s answer is Jesus Christ: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

A long list of verses still does not provide what was requested: one passage teaching that a person truly justified by God and given eternal life can finally perish.

Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

true as long as they remain in him

Jn 15:5-6

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Because I am confident in God's promises and not in my own confidence.

the promise of eternal salvation?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

This does not clarify the issue. It confirms it. You are defining salvation as a process in which a man is justified freely, but must afterward preserve himself through works and endurance in order to receive eternal salvation. That makes final salvation depend upon man’s performance.

Your outline begins by inserting meanings into Titus 2:14 that the verse does not give. “Redeem us from all iniquity” is redemption, but “purify unto himself a peculiar people” is not called justification. Justification is God declaring the ungodly righteous through faith in Christ: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Good works follow salvation, but they do not complete it.

You quoted 1 John 5:13, but it contradicts your position: “that ye may know that ye have eternal life.” John does not say believers merely have provisional life while waiting to see whether they persevere successfully. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

Endurance is necessary, but true believers endure because God preserves them. They are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). Paul said those whom God justified, “them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). No justified person disappears between justification and glorification.

The warning passages call professing believers to examine themselves and continue in the faith. They do not teach that someone born of God, sealed by the Spirit, and given eternal life can become unborn, unsealed, and finally condemned. Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

The issue is not whether believers should obey, suffer, endure, and pursue holiness. They should. The issue is what guarantees their final salvation. Your answer is continued human cooperation. Scripture’s answer is Jesus Christ: “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

A long list of verses still does not provide what was requested: one passage teaching that a person truly justified by God and given eternal life can finally perish.

Those who permanently abandon Christ reveal what they were: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19).

this does not mean that other have departed who were of us!

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Colossians 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

cannot depart from the faith without first having the faith!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

You still did not answer the questions. Do you presently have enough obedience and good works to enter heaven? If not, how many more do you need?

Saying that grace produces the works does not turn works into something other than works. Ephesians 2:10 says believers are created in Christ Jesus “unto good works.” God prepares and enables them, but Scripture still calls them works. Paul does not say grace makes works meritorious. That is being added to the text.

Romans 11:6 says the opposite of your argument: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” Paul does not say works become grace when grace enables them. He says grace and works cannot both be the basis of God’s saving choice.

Romans 4:4–5 is even plainer: “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Faith does not become meritorious because it receives Christ, and works do not become non-works because God enables them.

Your statement that grace makes works “meritorious” is not found in Scripture. Jesus said that after doing everything commanded, we must still say, “We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do” (Luke 17:10). God owes eternal life to no one because of his obedience.

Romans 6:22, not verse 23, says holiness is the fruit and everlasting life is the end. But verse 23 explains how everlasting life is received: “The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” It is not wages paid for grace-enabled works.

First Peter 1:9 and Romans 13:11 speak of the future completion of salvation when believers are glorified. They do not teach that justification and eternal life remain uncertain until we have produced enough works. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24). Paul said, “whom he justified, them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30).

No one is saying a momentary profession with no continuing faith saves. Genuine faith continues and produces fruit because God preserves and changes His people. But faith is not a microscopic work that earns eternity. It is the empty hand receiving Christ.

You keep accusing others of following Reformation tradition while introducing claims such as “grace makes works meritorious,” which Scripture never says. Leave tradition out of it and answer from the text: Can a man whom God has truly justified, given eternal life, and sealed with the Holy Spirit finally perish? You still have not shown one verse that says he can.

not quantity but faithfulness

mt 10:22 endure to the end

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

You still did not answer the questions. Do you presently have enough obedience and good works to enter heaven? If not, how many more do you need?

Saying that grace produces the works does not turn works into something other than works. Ephesians 2:10 says believers are created in Christ Jesus “unto good works.” God prepares and enables them, but Scripture still calls them works. Paul does not say grace makes works meritorious. That is being added to the text.

Romans 11:6 says the opposite of your argument: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” Paul does not say works become grace when grace enables them. He says grace and works cannot both be the basis of God’s saving choice.

Romans 4:4–5 is even plainer: “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Faith does not become meritorious because it receives Christ, and works do not become non-works because God enables them.

Your statement that grace makes works “meritorious” is not found in Scripture. Jesus said that after doing everything commanded, we must still say, “We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do” (Luke 17:10). God owes eternal life to no one because of his obedience.

Romans 6:22, not verse 23, says holiness is the fruit and everlasting life is the end. But verse 23 explains how everlasting life is received: “The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” It is not wages paid for grace-enabled works.

First Peter 1:9 and Romans 13:11 speak of the future completion of salvation when believers are glorified. They do not teach that justification and eternal life remain uncertain until we have produced enough works. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life” and “is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24). Paul said, “whom he justified, them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30).

No one is saying a momentary profession with no continuing faith saves. Genuine faith continues and produces fruit because God preserves and changes His people. But faith is not a microscopic work that earns eternity. It is the empty hand receiving Christ.

You keep accusing others of following Reformation tradition while introducing claims such as “grace makes works meritorious,” which Scripture never says. Leave tradition out of it and answer from the text: Can a man whom God has truly justified, given eternal life, and sealed with the Holy Spirit finally perish? You still have not shown one verse that says he can.

Paul does not say grace makes works meritorious. That is being added to the text.

scripture says so

Jn 15:4-5

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

phil 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

James 5:16
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

thks

 

[mailmandan]

faithhopecharity I have tried to share the actual truths of the bible with you so you would know them, it seems to me you are just blind to them and keep pushing the same works for final salvation that the scriptures do not teach, I think I have done what I can and now I am putting you on ignore. The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it.

The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it, indeed. Sadly, certain folks just do not have ears to hear. We see the same errors repeated over and over again by works-salvationists. They conflate justification with sanctification and faith with works, which culminates in the gospel according to SELF:

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation.

In regard to John 15, eternal IN-securists believe that “in me” (in the vine) must mean saving union with Christ, in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) yet when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, the new covenant was not yet fully established and the Holy Spirit was not yet given. (John 7:38-39) Scripture shows that outward connection with Christ as the vine which lacks a spiritual and vital connection and bears no fruit is not inward life. Apart from Christ we can do nothing. Hence, bears no fruit.

Judas was outwardly with Christ, chosen among the twelve, sent out in ministry, yet Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70) Jesus also said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10) Judas was connected outwardly but not inwardly. Hence, and you are not all clean.

John 15 is not teaching that born-again believers lose eternal life. That would make Jesus contradict Himself. He already said, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing but will raise it up on the last day. (John 6:39) He also said, “I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” (John 10:28) If they perish, it was not eternal life.

A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Branches that are vitally connected bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to be vitally connected with Christ as the vine for a season, but no fruit exposes no life. John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10.

Speaking of being blind to the scriptures, particularly the gospel, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and false religion is his favorite weapon to keep people blind from the truth.

 

[faithhopecharity]

The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it, indeed. Sadly, certain folks just do not have ears to hear. We see the same errors repeated over and over again by works-salvationists. They conflate justification with sanctification and faith with works, which culminates in the gospel according to SELF:

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation.

In regard to John 15, eternal IN-securists believe that “in me” (in the vine) must mean saving union with Christ, in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) yet when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, the new covenant was not yet fully established and the Holy Spirit was not yet given. (John 7:38-39) Scripture shows that outward connection with Christ as the vine which lacks a spiritual and vital connection and bears no fruit is not inward life. Apart from Christ we can do nothing. Hence, bears no fruit.

Judas was outwardly with Christ, chosen among the twelve, sent out in ministry, yet Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70) Jesus also said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10) Judas was connected outwardly but not inwardly. Hence, and you are not all clean.

John 15 is not teaching that born-again believers lose eternal life. That would make Jesus contradict Himself. He already said, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing but will raise it up on the last day. (John 6:39) He also said, “I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” (John 10:28) If they perish, it was not eternal life.

A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Branches that are vitally connected bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to be vitally connected with Christ as the vine for a season, but no fruit exposes no life. John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10.

Speaking of being blind to the scriptures, particularly the gospel, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and false religion is his favorite weapon to keep people blind from the truth.

View attachment 87072

you cannot serve two masters!

Christ and Luther!

thks

 

[mailmandan]

you cannot serve two masters!

Christ and Luther!

thks

Straw man argument.

You cannot serve two masters.

Christ and the Pope!

 

[faithhopecharity]

The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it, indeed. Sadly, certain folks just do not have ears to hear. We see the same errors repeated over and over again by works-salvationists. They conflate justification with sanctification and faith with works, which culminates in the gospel according to SELF:

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation.

In regard to John 15, eternal IN-securists believe that “in me” (in the vine) must mean saving union with Christ, in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) yet when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, the new covenant was not yet fully established and the Holy Spirit was not yet given. (John 7:38-39) Scripture shows that outward connection with Christ as the vine which lacks a spiritual and vital connection and bears no fruit is not inward life. Apart from Christ we can do nothing. Hence, bears no fruit.

Judas was outwardly with Christ, chosen among the twelve, sent out in ministry, yet Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70) Jesus also said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10) Judas was connected outwardly but not inwardly. Hence, and you are not all clean.

John 15 is not teaching that born-again believers lose eternal life. That would make Jesus contradict Himself. He already said, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing but will raise it up on the last day. (John 6:39) He also said, “I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” (John 10:28) If they perish, it was not eternal life.

A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Branches that are vitally connected bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to be vitally connected with Christ as the vine for a season, but no fruit exposes no life. John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10.

Speaking of being blind to the scriptures, particularly the gospel, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and false religion is his favorite weapon to keep people blind from the truth.

View attachment 87072

yet your tradition negates the word!

Mk 10:30 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

whats the crown of life accept eternal salvation?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

The word of God is clear enough for those who will hear it, indeed. Sadly, certain folks just do not have ears to hear. We see the same errors repeated over and over again by works-salvationists. They conflate justification with sanctification and faith with works, which culminates in the gospel according to SELF:

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation.

In regard to John 15, eternal IN-securists believe that “in me” (in the vine) must mean saving union with Christ, in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) yet when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, the new covenant was not yet fully established and the Holy Spirit was not yet given. (John 7:38-39) Scripture shows that outward connection with Christ as the vine which lacks a spiritual and vital connection and bears no fruit is not inward life. Apart from Christ we can do nothing. Hence, bears no fruit.

Judas was outwardly with Christ, chosen among the twelve, sent out in ministry, yet Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70) Jesus also said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10) Judas was connected outwardly but not inwardly. Hence, and you are not all clean.

John 15 is not teaching that born-again believers lose eternal life. That would make Jesus contradict Himself. He already said, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing but will raise it up on the last day. (John 6:39) He also said, “I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” (John 10:28) If they perish, it was not eternal life.

A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Branches that are vitally connected bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to be vitally connected with Christ as the vine for a season, but no fruit exposes no life. John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10.

Speaking of being blind to the scriptures, particularly the gospel, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and false religion is his favorite weapon to keep people blind from the truth.

View attachment 87072

Romans 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

thks

 

[mailmandan]

yet your tradition negates the word!

What tradition is that? It's the Roman Catholic church who has "added" tradition to scripture. What is the infallible rule of faith?' This remains a major dividing issue between Catholics and Protestants. And rightly so. We are building on different foundations. The Roman Catholic answers something like this, 'God's Word is found in the Bible and in Tradition. But you can't understand the Bible correctly. As for Tradition, no one knows exactly what it contains. Therefore, you must submit to the Pope and the bishops of the Roman Catholic church. The teaching of the Catholic magisterium ends up becoming the infallible rule of faith.

Mk 10:30 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

This does not mean that a truly born-again believer pulls himself up by his own bootstraps and keeps himself saved by his own power. It means the saved endure because God keeps them. The ones who belong to Christ endure to the end because Christ preserves His own. (Jude 1:1) Peter says believers "are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5) That is not man keeping himself saved. That is God keeping the believer saved through faith. Paul said the same thing: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6) So, what is the point of enduring? The point is that endurance is the mark of real faith. Endurance does not buy salvation. It shows that the faith is real. A spurious faith that abandons Christ was not saving faith.

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

whats the crown of life accept eternal salvation?

If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness." That verse is an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus is not telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That would be salvation by works! Jesus is telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Make believers/unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

The Bible mentions multiple crowns in scripture. The imperishable crown (1 Corinthians 9:24-25); the crown of rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19); the crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8); the crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4); the crown of life (Revelation 2:10). On the head of Jesus are many crowns. (Revelation 19:12)

 

[mailmandan]

Romans 2:6-7

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

thks

I see that you continue to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'descriptive' passages of scripture. That is a common error which is made by works-salvationists. If one reads Romans 2:6-7 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works, which certainly tickles your ears. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[faithhopecharity]

Straw man argument.

You cannot serve two masters.

Christ and the Pope!

I see that you continue to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'descriptive' passages of scripture. That is a common error which is made by works-salvationists. If one reads Romans 2:6-7 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works, which certainly tickles your ears. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Good works follow salvation defeats the purpose!

Good works unto salvation establishes the purpose!

The means of our salvation is according to the purpose of our creation!

To Know, Love, & serve God!

eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Col 1:9-12

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

grace now! eternal salvation after!

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Rewards for good works:


Wherefore, even eternal life itself, which is surely the reward of good works, the apostle calls the gift of God. Saint Augustine


“What merit, then, does a man have before grace, by which he might receive grace, when our every good merit is produced in us only by grace and when God, crowning our merits, crowns nothing else but his own gifts to us?” (ibid., 194:5:19).
Saint Augustine


PROSPER OF AQUITAINE
“Indeed, a man who has been justified, that is, who from impious has been made pious, since he had no antecedent good merit, receives a gift, by which gift he may also acquire merit. Thus, what was begun in him by Christ’s grace can also be augmented by the industry of his free choice, but never in the absence of God’s help, without which no one is able either to progress or to continue in doing good” (Responses on Behalf of Augustine 6 [A.D. 431]).

God rewards good works

Matt 5:7 obtains mercy
Matt 5:8 salvation
Matt 5:12 reward in heaven
Matt 6:1-6 prayer alms rewarded
Matt 6:18 fasting rewarded
Matt 10:41-42 prophet & righteous mans reward
Matthew 16:27 Christ rewards according to (faith alone) nope! works
Lk 6:23 reward great in heaven
Lk 6:35 great reward
Rom 2:6-7 rewards according works
1 cor 3:8 reward works
1 cor 3:14 rewards
1 cor 9:17 reward
Col 2:18 reward
Col 3:24 reward of inheritance (salv)
1 Tim 5:18 reward
Heb 10:35 great reward
Heb 11:6 rewards those who diligently seek Him
2 John 1:8 full reward.
Rev 11:18 reward
Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

grace is the life of our acts

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

"works are forbidden"

verses

"works are required"


((works are forbidden))

eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

((works are required))

eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


how do you solve this contradiction in scripture?


the solution: "initial the grace of justification"!

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? nothing!

nothing of merit or value in God's eyes! nothing spiritual or supernatural, nothing meriting eternal salvation!

phil 4:13 with Christ? all things!

union

By the grace of justification received by faith and baptism we have union with God thru Christ, in the communion of saints, empowered by grace and life in the spirit to attain to eternal salvation on glory!

Our good works after we receive the grace of justification are transformed by grace and performed in grace united with Christ and given life of the spirit because of God's grace operating in us!

we do not possess eternal salvation in this life, but the grace of God that must be increased by good works (mt 7:7 mt 26:41 2 pet 3:18) and can be lost by deadly sin! (Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4 gal 5:19-21 gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20)


mk 10:30
...in the world to come eternal life.

John 4:36
...gathereth fruit unto life eternal:

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life...

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[mailmandan]

Good works follow salvation defeats the purpose!

It defeats the purpose of grace and also you boasting in your works.

Good works unto salvation establishes the purpose!

Not according to Ephesians 2:8-10. We are saved FOR good works and not by good works.You have it backwards.

The means of our salvation is according to the purpose of our creation!

To Know, Love, & serve God!

eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith/saved by grace through faith, not works and created in Christ Jesus FIRST (Ephesians 2:5-9) then UNTO/FOR good works that we should walk in them. You have the tail walking the dog.The cart before the horse.

Col 1:9-12

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

grace now! eternal salvation after!

Saved by grace through faith, not works NOW (saved from the PENALTY of sin - justification) saved from the PRESENCE of sin - glorification) AFTER. It''s not uncommon for work-salvationists, to conflate justification with glorification.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Descriptive of children of God.

Rewards for good works:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

Wherefore, even eternal life itself, which is surely the reward of good works, the apostle calls the gift of God. Saint Augustine

Eternal life is not a reward, but a gift. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) Which book of the Bible did Augustine write?

“What merit, then, does a man have before grace, by which he might receive grace, when our every good merit is produced in us only by grace and when God, crowning our merits, crowns nothing else but his own gifts to us?” (ibid., 194:5:19).
Saint Augustine

PROSPER OF AQUITAINE
“Indeed, a man who has been justified, that is, who from impious has been made pious, since he had no antecedent good merit, receives a gift, by which gift he may also acquire merit. Thus, what was begun in him by Christ’s grace can also be augmented by the industry of his free choice, but never in the absence of God’s help, without which no one is able either to progress or to continue in doing good” (Responses on Behalf of Augustine 6 [A.D. 431]).

You need the quote God's infallible Word and not fallible writings by fallible men.

God rewards good works

Matt 5:7 obtains mercy
Matt 5:8 salvation
Matt 5:12 reward in heaven
Matt 6:1-6 prayer alms rewarded
Matt 6:18 fasting rewarded
Matt 10:41-42 prophet & righteous mans reward
Matthew 16:27 Christ rewards according to (faith alone) nope! works
Lk 6:23 reward great in heaven
Lk 6:35 great reward
Rom 2:6-7 rewards according works
1 cor 3:8 reward works
1 cor 3:14 rewards
1 cor 9:17 reward
Col 2:18 reward
Col 3:24 reward of inheritance (salv)
1 Tim 5:18 reward
Heb 10:35 great reward
Heb 11:6 rewards those who diligently seek Him
2 John 1:8 full reward.
Rev 11:18 reward
Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

grace is the life of our acts

I see that you conflare the gift of eternal life with rewards. That is a common error made by works-salvationists.