How could the Messiah be sinless?

[bbyrd009]

It is, throughout Scripture. This is just a beginning for you today.

ah ok ty

 

[bbyrd009]

1 Kings 8:46 is referring to every regular human. Yes, every one of those will screw up eventually.
Not God incarnated.

There's a variety of ways people understand the relationship between the Father/Son/Spirit.

But vast majority of them state that the Father and Son aren't the same person: Christ doesn't pray to Himself, doesn't pat himself on the back during his baptism, etc. Rather they are two different persons in one God. The Spirit likewise being another person in that one God.

i dislike "persons" in God bc He alone dwells in unapproachable light, and "persons" naturally suggests personality, and a commonality with people that i dunno if thats such a great idea? What do you think?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i dislike "persons" in God bc He alone dwells in unapproachable light, and "persons" naturally suggests personality, and a commonality with people that i dunno if thats such a great idea? What do you think?

I read scriptures, and have no problem with the idea that God has emotions (love, anger, etc). Such a key part of God actually.

 

[bbyrd009]

I read scriptures, and have no problem with the idea that God has emotions (love, anger, etc). Such a key part of God actually.

ah, so

i just cant help but wonder how far from an Olde White Guy in a long white robe that is, wadr

 

[mjrhealth]

God is Christ and Christ is God. When you have God dying, you have Christ dying. When you have Christ dying, you have God dying (in the separation of the soul and spirit from the body).

I am not doing the devil's work. Christ claimed to be the great I AM of Exodus 3:14, John 8:58; and the Pharisees understood what He was claiming, John 8:59 and John 10:31-33.

We shall see. No Jesus, no Son, no salvation, God a liar, Christ a liar. what more will you add..

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

How can one reverence Gods Son when it wasnt Gods son but God..

I guess God is like all the American pollys who refused to send there sons to war but sent everyone elses. God gave us Christ because it was a necessity,

So I guess by your own words. John 3:16 is now redundant.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Because God never sent anyone.

Are you so confused

 

[mjrhealth]

Have you considered what a coward the Father must be, to create a finite human being and force him to go to the Cross to pay for the sins of mankind; and didn't do it Himself?

And now Gods a coward, what next.

 

[justbyfaith]

How can one reverence Gods Son when it wasnt Gods son but God..

The answer is in Hebrews 10:5. God prepared a body for Him to dwell in and Jesus is the Son of God in that there is a hypostatic union. He is the Father in that it is the same Spirit who dwells in the Son, who also inhabiteth eternity. The same Lord. The same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

 

[justbyfaith]

And now Gods a coward, what next.

Only when it comes to the theology that you have set forth.

 

[justbyfaith]

@mjrhealth,

Maybe you should just get baptized in Jesus' Name when they come for you.

 

[mjrhealth]

The answer is in Hebrews 10:5. God prepared a body for Him to dwell in and Jesus is the Son of God in that there is a hypostatic union. He is the Father in that it is the same Spirit who dwells in the Son, who also inhabiteth eternity. The same Lord. The same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

So God who never changes changed because HE became the first of the new creation, still confused are you.. So are you going to rewrite teh bibel and remove Jesus, and replace Him with God.

Mat_21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

I guess you never will... How can you reverence the son when the isnt the son, but the father, for how long will you mock God...

Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

ah, so

i just cant help but wonder how far from an Olde White Guy in a long white robe that is, wadr

Ethnicity is highly irrelevant.

The white robe is symbolic -- symbolic of purity.

 

[mjrhealth]

Read for yourself how many reject Torah, reject the Law, reject The Creators Instructions, daily .... it is not good, but be aware ...

Doesnt say that anywhere, but many religious people who say "I kept the law" and found to be liars should they not to be rejected too, many will not enter in because they choose no to be in Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

So God who never changes changed because HE became the first of the new creation, still confused are you.. So are you going to rewrite teh bibel and remove Jesus, and replace Him with God.

Mat_21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

I guess you never will... How can you reverence the son when the isnt the son, but the father, for how long will you mock God...

Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Jhn 5:22, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23, That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Here's a good scripture to compare that to:

1Pe 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

This is a contradiction if the Son isn't the Father.

And that we should honour the Son even as we honour the Father...do we not honour the Father as God?

 

[mjrhealth]

Jhn 5:22, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23, That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Here's a good scripture to compare that to:

1Pe 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

This is a contradiction if the Son isn't the Father.

And that we should honour the Son even as we honour the Father...do we not honour the Father as God?

There is a problem you have no salvation if Jesus is not the son but the father in disguise, you see, Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant with God, God cannot legally make a covenant with Himself, and the enemy by all accounts can make you guilty, because by definiton legally you just remove Jesus the Christ out of the picture and so have no saviour. Hes smart isnt he, that devil... loves men who read to much.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

You keep denying Christ, taking away all His works, all His sacrifice, you are doing away with your own salvation.

 

[Tong2020]

No Tong, the foolishness of the Cross is exactly what I said it was, it had nothing to do with Jesus being God.

You are entitled to your own opinion as every person is.

Paul's emphasis was on the principle of crucified, this was the defaming and ignoble factor that repulsed the proud. And it was the perceived lack of favour from God to save him, that caused indignation from the Jews.
'...not because the crucifixion of a person in those days was foolishness...' Preaching a crucified king and Messiah was foolishness Tong, and this is the full extent of the context of Paul's remark.

In that part of Paul's writings, the emphasis was not only on crucifixion but definitely and more significantly on the person crucified, the one whom they were chosen and blessed to witness to, teach about, and preach, that is, the Christ. And he was not out there to speak concerning the proud, but concerning the wise who rely upon human wisdom in determining what is the truth. On the crucifixion, the emphasis is in that it is the worst mode of execution of capital punishment for heinous crimes committed by a criminal in those days, imposed by the governing Gentile authorities then, amounting not only to cruel suffering, extreme humiliation, but also the slow, painful, and certain death. On the person of him crucified, he was not somebody ordinary, not even a criminal even to the very least Gentile definition of what a criminal is, an innocent person, for so even the Gentile Pilate had found out. But the emphasis on the person of Jesus was far far more than that. I have already told you in my post about the person of Jesus, that He is the Christ, etc. etc, ~ He is God. Such truth about the person of this Jesus whom Paul preached as crucified is central to Paul's emphasis in speaking of the "message of the cross" which makes it foolishness to the wise Greeks (Gentiles). In his writing, in the phrase, "we preach Christ crucified..." is embodied both of these emphasis, that is, on the crucifixion and on the person of Jesus, rendering it nothing short of foolishness according to human wisdom.

I could understand your rejection of what I said, for you find the truth that Christ is the almighty God as foolishness. And that is no different thinking from the wise of those days, who rely upon human wisdom in determining what is the truth. But if we let scriptures speak the truth to us, and rely in the words of God instead, it can't be denied that the Christ is the Lord ~ Yahweh, the almighty God.

You're way off Tong, your understanding of the Gospel is just getting ridiculous!
Your final sentence stated the wisdom of God, and yet, YOU HAVE YET TO MAKE ANY WISDOM OUT OF IT!!!
You keep running in circles like a chicken with your head cut-off, and making as much sense as that. You keep digressing around the points that I'm making, then when it comes to bring some rationality to the ridiculous trinity doctrine, as you claim that there is some, you make a stupid unqualified remark '...Christ the Power and Wisdom of God...', as if you justified the trinity in any manner.
Tong, I don't mean to be rude, but both you, and no one else, is qualified to talk about this inane and subversive man-made doctrine.

Ad hominems? Well, those are not the ways of the disciples and apostles of Jesus Christ in standing for the truth that they were chosen for to testify, teach, and preach, and even die for. So, why would a Christian resort to such act? Well,...

You said "...but both you, and no one else, is qualified to talk about this inane and subversive man-made doctrine." I am not talking about a man-made doctrine DNB. I am talking about what one can find and learn in scriptures.

I will repeat here what I already said, if we let scriptures speak the truth to us, and rely in the words of God instead of human wisdom, it can't be denied that the Christ is the Lord ~ Yahweh, the almighty God.

It had been shown to you in scriptures, the prophecy of Isaiah concerning the messenger who will prepare the way of the Lord, that is, God (Yahweh); and it had been shown to you in scriptures, the fulfillment of such prophecy in the prophet John the baptist, being the messenger, and in the Christ, Jesus, being the Lord, whose way John the baptist prepared for. But you just keep rejecting that. Not that it is not written in scriptures, but because human wisdom tells you that it is foolishness.

It had been shown to you also in scriptures that God is the King of kings and the Lord of Lords. Is there another God like Him? Is there another King of kings other than God? Is there another Lord of lords other than God? Such titles are ultimate, meaning there could only be one King of kings and only be one Lord of Lords. And it had been shown to you in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. And you again reject the truth that such teaches, not that it is not written in scriptures, but because human wisdom tells you that it is foolishness.

Why is it you can believe the miracles and supernatural wonders written in scriptures, things that human wisdom could not explain but are truth ~ water turning to true wine, the Word becoming true flesh, the dead resurrecting to life, etc., etc.? How can you not continue and fully rely on God whom you profess and claim to believe, and turn again to rely on human wisdom for the truth, especially the truth about the person of Jesus Christ and God?

Finally, you said "... you make a stupid unqualified remark '...Christ the Power and Wisdom of God...'" That isn't a stupid remark from me nor did I quote that to support or justify the triune nature of God. That is coming from scriptures, unless you think that Paul is stupid. And I quoted that to refute a statement you made, as can be seen in my last paragraph in my post #314. So, another strawman of yours perhaps?

Tong
R0866

 

[Tong2020]

@mjrhealth or any one who can help out mjrhealth,

May I ask, do you know who said this, "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."?

*coming from post #316
How could the Messiah be sinless?

Tong
R0867

 

[mjrhealth]

@mjrhealth or any one who can help out mjrhealth,

May I ask, do you know who said this, "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."?

*coming from post #316
How could the Messiah be sinless?

One day when you stop studying and ask God maybe you might find out, but if Jesus is God than you have no salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is a problem you have no salvation if Jesus is not the son but the father in disguise, you see, Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant with God,

I do not deny that He is the Son.

God cannot legally make a covenant with Himself,

Why not?

and the enemy by all accounts can make you guilty, because by definiton legally you just remove Jesus the Christ out of the picture and so have no saviour. Hes smart isnt he, that devil... loves men who read to much.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

You keep denying Christ, taking away all His works, all His sacrifice, you are doing away with your own salvation.

How have I removed Jesus out of the picture, and how am I denying Christ? Who He is is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11; Isaiah 9:6; Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6; Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21; 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

I confess that He is come in the flesh.

One day when you stop studying and ask God maybe you might find out, but if Jesus is God than you have no salvation.

In all reality, you have no salvation if you deny that Jesus is the great I AM (John 8:24).

 

[mjrhealth]

I do not deny that He is the Son.

Yo have repeatedly said He is the father so which is He.??

 

[justbyfaith]

Yo have repeatedly said He is the father so which is He.??

He is the Father even the Son.

His Spirit is the Father.

He is the Son in the hypostatic union...in that He is come in the flesh as a Man.