How Do You All Read This Statement?

[Christ4Me]

I hope that’s not the case, because I wasn’t given that gift. But I respect those who do and just let them talk with God however He may lead them. That’s none of my business.

I’ve posted this story elsewhere, but it seems appropriate here:

I met Brother Willis on a couple of other forums. When Brother Willis got out of the Air Force, he and his wife found a church they really loved. Wonderful, Spirit-filled services, good loving people. But when he inquired about membership, the Deacon told him the gift of Tongues was required for proof you're a Christian, and neither he nor his wife had that gift. Now, Brother Willis knew his Bible. He told the Deacon, "Well, per 1 Corinthians 12, Tongues is only one of the Gifts of the Spirit. My Gift is Spiritual Discernment, and right now I'm discerning that you're full of (crap) and you need to repent!" Brother Willis was a good man. He's long gone now, sad to say.

Although funny, it is not done the way Jesus would have it done per 2 Timothy 2:24-26 since he would need to use scripture to show why that deacon & that church needs to repent.

Paul has used the word dung though in regards to his work when he was under the law, but that is in regards to his past self, and not to a brother in error. I would think any opportunity to share edification & correction by scripture as the Lord would lead, would be gone after an insult like that.

 

[Lambano]

Another Christian forum's Statement of Faith. I do not remember if they always had it that way, but that part seems new to me.

The leaders are silent on my inquiry but it did get past moderation. I had joined the forum recently when this forum got shut down due to that storm. Members of that forum are answering for them, but I don't think they can know what they actually meant.

I am concern for the members of that forum & not just the staff as I am for certain members of this forum, even though most members here would never say to me that if I do not speak in tongues, I do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore I am not saved. They did not either but that comment in that Statement of faith sounds like that is how they may see me. They want more believers to join and I am trying to point out that part of their Statement of faith may be turning believers away since obviously not every one speaks in tongues & they will feel like they do not belong there.

I do not feel like I belong there and yet so far, they have not shown me the door because I think they know I am asking honest questions and maybe they can see my just & valid concerns by the scripture even though they may not agree with how I am rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do not want to send members that speak in tongues to go over there to give the staff a hard time, because I am led by Him to do this in meekness and gentleness, being patient by His hand, hoping He may peradventure to lead them to either clarify that comment or to repent if they actually meant that falsehood as I seem to be reading there.

I am hoping in the Lord that He is ministering to others and not just to me in these iron sharpen iron outreach ministries in these Christian forums..

Hey, I had a member come right out and tell me he thought I wasn't saved in another thread today. I must be doing something right.

I was willing to give the authors of that statement the widest possible benefit of the doubt. But (as brother Willis's story shows), I realize there are churches who do believe speaking in tongues is a necessary sign you're saved. Fine; I shake the dust off my feet and move on down the road.

If you feel called to correct other people's bad doctrine (especially if you see people getting hurt by it), do what you have to do. Know your own heart and make sure you have the calling and are not just reacting emotionally to being excluded by their statement, or out of a sense of insecurity. You'll find being the Quality Control engineer is a thankless job. It's rare for those so corrected to really repent, and there's a reason prophets get stoned.

Me, I can't fix broken people; I can't even fix myself. My calling lies elsewhere.

 

[Rita]

I cannot speak in tongues and over the years it has made me question my faith, not because of the conviction of scripture but because of other believers who claim I should be able to speak in tongues. The gifts of the spirit are available to ALL , but that doesn’t mean ALL will operate in ALL of the gifts. As far as I am concerned The Holy Spirit is the one who decides …..not man.
The Holy Spirit knows us better than we know ourselves, and knows what is needed in our lives to enable us to serve, minister, draw near ect ect. We all have different experiences.
The doubts still come when I read discussions on the subject. Rita

 

[Lambano]

The doubts still come when I read discussions on the subject. Rita

This is where bad doctrine gets people hurt.

 

[TLHKAJ]

In testing the spirits, is by knowing the Holy Ghost is in you so that when you feel a spirit moved upon you and through you, that was not the indwelling Holy Spirit. 1 John 4:2 is the same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 and thus exposes the spirit of the antichrist as being outside of us moving on us as being felt in the world like mediums and wizards d with familiar spirits; 1 John 4:3-4 as greater is He that is in you....

Wow, you're going to pick apart my words and accuse me of being filled with a kundalini spirit?? You know good and well what I was meaning.

Be careful calling Holy Spirit "kundalini."
I assure you that I know the difference. I know when He moves me and fills me. Holy Spirit speaks of Jesus Christ; kundalini does not.

John 16:13-15
[13]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[14]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[15]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Again, I would be very careful when accusing one of being false. Just because you haven't experienced Holy Spirit with joy doesn't mean those who have are under influence of kundalini.

Matthew 12:31-33
[31]Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
[32]And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
[33]Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

And Holy Spirit DOES give joy! Joy is a fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
[22]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I haven't watched your video, because I already know there's a counterfeit and I don't enjoy watching it.

 

[Rita]

This is where bad doctrine gets people hurt.

Yes I agree. It doesn’t knock me back as much as it use to but it still takes time to ‘ feel okay ‘.

It’s not just false doctrine though, it’s the judgments Christians make about other Christians. Like your earlier post, when someone accuses us of not being a christian it can have a very negative impact. It can really make you question and if you are young in faith it can act as a stumbling block, something we are advised in scripture to avoid. Words are powerful, hence the endless warnings in James.

Many on forums claim a position of knowledge about others that is only reserved for God x
Rita

 

[TLHKAJ]

It seems to me that Peter was saying that Holy Spirit is a gift which is promised to all believers. In these passages, I don't see a reference to speaking in tongues. Tongues is a gift as well.

Acts 2:38-41
[38]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[40]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[41]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Yes I agree. It doesn’t knock me back as much as it use to but it still takes time to ‘ feel okay ‘.

It’s not just false doctrine though, it’s the judgments Christians make about other Christians. Like your earlier post, when someone accuses us of not being a christian it can have a very negative impact. It can really make you question and if you are young in faith it can act as a stumbling block, something we are advised in scripture to avoid. Words are powerful, hence the endless warnings in James.

Many on forums claim a position of knowledge about others that is only reserved for God x
Rita

I agree ....the same as ones who haven't experienced the infilling of Holy Spirit with speaking of tongues, accusing those who have of operating under a kundalini spirit?

 

[Rita]

I agree ....the same as ones who haven't experienced the infilling of Holy Spirit with speaking of tongues, accusing those who have of operating under a kundalini spirit?

Yes, although I am not too sure that was what the earlier post said. Just as there are genuine speaking in tongues we also know that there can be counterfeits and we do need to test things. I thought the post was making a general point, not a personal one aimed at you.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Yes, although I am not too sure that was what the earlier post said. Just as there are genuine speaking in tongues we also know that there can be counterfeits and we do need to test things. I thought the post was making a general point, not a personal one aimed at you.

Yes, that member quoted me, and said that since I used the words "on" and "through" that it wasn't the Holy Spirit. I know that is absurd. Holy Spirit is within me ...so yes, He can flow through me, as Jesus said ....out of your belly will flow rivers of living waters.

John 7:38-39
[38]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
[39](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[Rita]

Yes I saw the quote but read the response in a slightly different way. Yes, I feel The Holy Spirit within me , can’t really explain it in words though. Xx

 

[TLHKAJ]

I believe that a spirit of fear moves people to make accusations like that against a brother or sister. It seems that some who haven't experienced the gift of tongues are more quick to accuse those who have of having a kundalini spirit.

I don't care to watch the videos that were posted. I've seen too many things because of what I was born into, and I recognize when things aren't of God. There is a very very distinct and unmistakable difference. The things in some of those videos are too reminiscent of things I don't care to see again.

 

[Lambano]

The doubts still come when I read discussions on the subject. Rita

Rita, why is it that so many of us feel so insecure in our faith?

 

[Rita]

Rita, why is it that so many of us feel so insecure in our faith?

I can only speak for myself , it’s old battles and messages just being triggered and played in my mind. So it’s not so much about my faith now, as my faith many years ago. I also look upon my relationship with the Lord as being always in transition of change. What others have said to us over the years gets through and can lay very wrong foundations and they need to be broken up , but in order to do that we have to realise we have believed a lie and replace it with truth. The Lord goes at a pace that suits us individually , some change gradually, others quickly, I have always grown at a slow pace.
Rita

 

[Lambano]

I'm seeing how our insecurities are making us so damn defensive. Shields up, Mr. Sulu! Arm the photon torpedoes! Red Alert! Battle stations!

We don't know what we're willing to die for, but we know what we're willing to kill for.

And I do it too.

Isn't "faith" supposed to be cognate with "trust"?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The statement in the OP is full of errors;

--the "one baptism" in effect today (Ephesians 4:4-5) is the human administered water baptism of the great commission which is commanded to all people, saves, done in the name of Jesus Christ and lasts till the end of time. None of which is true about baptism with the HS which was a prophecy of Joel that was fulfilled and ended some 2000 years ago
--the miraculous ended some 2000 years ago. The purpose of miracles was for a certain time and purpose, to bring about the revealed written word and confirmation of that word which was completed by the end of the first century. Therefore the miracles served their purpose by the end of the first century and ended, cease as Paul said they would
--Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:1-4 are not promising anyone today baptism with the HS. The context of those verses show it was the Apostles who were being promised and in Acts 2 it was just the Apostles who were recipients of the baptism with the HS, no one else.

 

[Christ4Me]

Hey, I had a member come right out and tell me he thought I wasn't saved in another thread today. I must be doing something right.

I was willing to give the authors of that statement the widest possible benefit of the doubt.

I am too but no answer yet from those authors.

But (as brother Willis's story shows), I realize there are churches who do believe speaking in tongues is a necessary sign you're saved. Fine; I shake the dust off my feet and move on down the road.

Part of the good fight is keeping the faith & having care for the body of Christ that may be suffering because of it, even those who push it.

When the phenomenon stops happening or believers stop speaking in tongues, then they feel like they have been abandoned by God for unknown reason or that God has abandoned the church The early revival in the UK that boasted of numerous alcoholics saved by that phenomenon, once it had died away, the "converted" went back to alcohol. I suspect in these latter days those who have been saved from drug addiction by that holy laughter in how they claim they get "high" on the Lord, that euphoria, may very well be tempted to go back to drugs once that euphoria goes away.

If you feel called to correct other people's bad doctrine (especially if you see people getting hurt by it), do what you have to do.

I hope you do too.

1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Know your own heart and make sure you have the calling and are not just reacting emotionally to being excluded by their statement, or out of a sense of insecurity. You'll find being the Quality Control engineer is a thankless job. It's rare for those so corrected to really repent, and there's a reason prophets get stoned.

Some cannot handle the truth and are offended when raining on someone's parade r pride. Others respond by silencing the opposition as if they have no real answer nor defense for tongues for private use. By God's grace and His help, some will tolerate it waiting for the Lord to raise up someone else that may have the answer they do not have yet.

Me, I can't fix broken people; I can't even fix myself. My calling lies elsewhere.

I cannot either which is why His yoke is easy & burden is light because this is His ministry and we are nothing in it since only God causes the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

So how ever long the Lord would have me here or there, it is really up to Him. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Christ4Me]

This is where bad doctrine gets people hurt.

It should also be noted that silence towards bad doctrines does not prevent believers from getting hurt either.

 

[Christ4Me]

I believe that a spirit of fear moves people to make accusations like that against a brother or sister. It seems that some who haven't experienced the gift of tongues are more quick to accuse those who have of having a kundalini spirit.

I don't care to watch the videos that were posted. I've seen too many things because of what I was born into, and I recognize when things aren't of God. There is a very very distinct and unmistakable difference. The things in some of those videos are too reminiscent of things I don't care to see again.

What if you were born into earlier when you had first believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel which is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead? What if you were led astray since then into thinking you need a sign that you have the Holy Ghost in you when you already did since you had first believed in Jesus Christ?

Are we not to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil with the Lord's help? Would the events in that video happen in Christianity? Is it the spirit of fear that prevents you from watching the video in finding out the truth that you were saved earlier when you had first believed in Him?

If those who use tongues for private use wish to ignore confirmation with Him of their experience and that tongue, then how is that not fear?

I do not shy away from those that would condemn me for not keeping the sabbath because of this answer ; Matthew 12:1-8

And yet since tongues are for private use as many claims, why mentioned it? Because it was gained by a phenomenon later in life of a believer. And so that is the hype in getting believers to seek after that other baptism with the Holy Ghost by that evidence of tongues for private use which is a departure from the faith in Jesus Christ because there is no other hope of our calling for another baptism with the Holy Ghost. Ephesians 4:4-6 & Colossians 2:5-10

Just concerns has been raised by those scriptures & more, as we are to have the same care for every member of the body of Christ when they go astray.

The consequence that I am seeing in scriptures like in Revelation 2:18-25 is that believers that use tongues for private use are at risk of being left behind to face the coming great tribulation for uttering the depths of Satan for which they speak per Isaiah 8:19.

If that phenomenon is not this 1 Timothy 4:1, then where is that falling away from the faith that is to happen before He comes 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 and yet most believers are expecting Him to come at any minute? Are we all ready for the Bridegroom or still out to the market getting filled with oil even after the second blessing? Matthew 25:1-13 I believe that is wise the wise were ready as Spirit-filled since salvation Matthew 9:17

 

[TLHKAJ]

What if you were born into earlier when you had first believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel which is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead? What if you were led astray since then into thinking you need a sign that you have the Holy Ghost in you when you already did since you had first believed in Jesus Christ?

Your what ifs are a bunch of nonsense. Did I say I "need a sign" that I have the Holy Spirit? No, I did not. The scriptures state that tongues is a gift. I do operate in that gift. Since you do not, do you resort to accusations?