How Do You All Read This Statement?

[Christ4Me]

"Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ."

In your own words, what do you believe this statement is saying?

 

[Christ4Me]

@Illuminator @BreadOfLife @rockytopva @robert derrick @Robert Gwin @Hidden In Him

@Nancy @Cassandra @Mayflower @atpollard @GRACE ambassador @Truth7t7 @Truther

How do you read this comment to mean?

Are they saying that every one that gets baptized in the Holy Spirit, will speak in tongues?

Are they saying that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and so they are not saved?

If not, some clarification please, because I cannot see how that can be even partially correct when that would cause division within the body of Christ. It can bring even more hurtful questions.

Should the believer worry because the Holy Spirit is not praying out loud in tongues for them?

Does this mean God does not care about them as much as He does others?

Or are you reading that comment as meaning something else? I just don't see how.

 

[Abigail]

I know a pastor who claims to be a pastor. And claims that if someone is unable to speak in tongues they are then not truly saved or in Christ.

I feel sorry for the guy. And all 10 of his remaining congregation members. Nine, eight, seven, ....

 

[Christ4Me]

I know a pastor who claims to be a pastor. And claims that if someone is unable to speak in tongues they are then not truly saved or in Christ.

I feel sorry for the guy. And all 10 of his remaining congregation members. Nine, eight, seven, ....

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Lambano]

By saying “operates in many present day disciples” rather than “all” indicates the speaker does not exclude as disciples those in whom the Spirit does not operate. By saying “for all believers” is a nuanced way of saying this baptism is available to all believers without explaining why it does not operate in all. Speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Spirit, though I don’t hear the speaker asserting this is the only evidence of Baptism in the Spirit.

 

[Abigail]

Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for sharing also.

 

[Christ4Me]

By saying “operates in many present day disciples” rather than “all” indicates the speaker does not exclude as disciples those in whom the Spirit does not operate. By saying “for all believers” is a nuanced way of saying this baptism is available to all believers without explaining why it does not operate in all. Speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Spirit, though I don’t hear the speaker asserting this is the only evidence of Baptism in the Spirit.

Thanks for trying to explain what the writer meant as he seemed to be silent when queried, but I do not get that impression, brother.

We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Because of the word "all" believers as promised, is why I read many as meaning all present day disciples.

 

[Enoch111]

In your own words, what do you believe this statement is saying?

In plain English, if you do not speak in tongues you have not been baptized "in" the Holy Spirit. But since Christ baptizes every believer "WITH" (not "in") the Holy Spirit and does not expect any tongues-speaking, then simply disregard this false teaching from the Pentecostals and Charismatics. The majority of Christians do not speak in "modern tongues" (glossolalia) which are not the same as biblical tongues (glossais).

 

[Christ4Me]

In plain English, if you do not speak in tongues you have not been baptized "in" the Holy Spirit. But since Christ baptizes every believer "WITH" (not "in") the Holy Spirit and does not expect any tongues-speaking, then simply disregard this false teaching from the Pentecostals and Charismatics. The majority of Christians do not speak in "modern tongues" (glossolalia) which are not the same as biblical tongues (glossais).

Unfortunately that rudiment for how they got that tongue is happening again by how they get holy laughter and it is not confined to those 2 denominations any more.

https://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/holy-laughter:-bringing-revival-to-the-church?

Quoting ~~~~"It's not confined to any one denomination or any one person,"says Sandy Miller, Vicar of Holy Trinity. "Quite the reverse. It's happening across the board-free churches, house churches, Church of England, established churches, all over the place." ~~end of quite

That is why this youtube video is an expose for that phenomenon that many believe it is the Holy Spirit coming to fall on them.

 

[JunChosen]

In your own words, what do you believe this statement is saying?

I believe that confessing Christians and pastors alike have no idea as to the meaning of the tongues phenomenon set forth in 1 Corinthians 14, at Pentecost or Mark 16:17. Where they are different in each case!

It's a wonder God gave us this warning in Hosea 4:6:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.... "

 

[TLHKAJ]

Why do you suppose Peter had to inform the people that those in the upper room weren't drunk? Why would people suppose they were drunk?

I have felt a joy when Holy Spirit moved upon me and through me, even to the point of some laughter. It wasn't over the top/loud or unseemly, or slithering or rolling around on the floor. But I have felt a joy I couldn't contain.

And don't you think satan has a counterfeit for the true joy that comes from God? Just the fact that there's a counterfeit is proof there is an authentic joy.

Acts 2:15-16
[15]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

 

[TLHKAJ]

I agree with @Lambano. They seem to be saying that baptism in the Holy Spirit is available for all believers, and that "some" modern day disciples operate in this gift (baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues).

I don't see any place in scripture that says you must speak in tongues to be saved.

Acts 2:13-21
[13]Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19]And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20]The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21]And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Christ4Me]

I believe that confessing Christians and pastors alike have no idea as to the meaning of the tongues phenomenon set forth in 1 Corinthians 14, at Pentecost or Mark 16:17. Where they are different in each case!

It's a wonder God gave us this warning in Hosea 4:6:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.... "

What do you mean different in each case? Paul gave the bottom line on tongues that it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people per 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 & tongues were never to serve as a sign TO the believers about anything but to the unbelievers per 1 Corinthians 14:22

So Mark 16:17 of signs following after the believers is not believers following after signs ls they commit spiritual adultery as Jesus warned in Matthew 12:39

 

[Lambano]

I don't see any place in scripture that says you must speak in tongues to be saved.

I hope that’s not the case, because I wasn’t given that gift. But I respect those who do and just let them talk with God however He may lead them. That’s none of my business.

I’ve posted this story elsewhere, but it seems appropriate here:

I met Brother Willis on a couple of other forums. When Brother Willis got out of the Air Force, he and his wife found a church they really loved. Wonderful, Spirit-filled services, good loving people. But when he inquired about membership, the Deacon told him the gift of Tongues was required for proof you're a Christian, and neither he nor his wife had that gift. Now, Brother Willis knew his Bible. He told the Deacon, "Well, per 1 Corinthians 12, Tongues is only one of the Gifts of the Spirit. My Gift is Spiritual Discernment, and right now I'm discerning that you're full of (crap) and you need to repent!" Brother Willis was a good man. He's long gone now, sad to say.

 

[Christ4Me]

Why do you suppose Peter had to inform the people that those in the upper room weren't drunk? Why would people suppose they were drunk?

I assure you that they were not falling down like a drunkard but some near the ones that did understand what language they were saying, did not, for why they assume they were drunk.

I have felt a joy when Holy Spirit moved upon me and through me, even to the point of some laughter. It wasn't over the top/loud or unseemly, or slithering or rolling around on the floor. But I have felt a joy I couldn't contain.

In testing the spirits, is by knowing the Holy Ghost is in you so that when you feel a spirit moved upon you and through you, that was not the indwelling Holy Spirit. 1 John 4:2 is the same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 and thus exposes the spirit of the antichrist as being outside of us moving on us as being felt in the world like mediums and wizards d with familiar spirits; 1 John 4:3-4 as greater is He that is in you....

And don't you think satan has a counterfeit for the true joy that comes from God? Just the fact that there's a counterfeit is proof there is an authentic joy.

Khundalini was before Pentecost. So God would not copy cat Satan for why it is of Satan as it is after the workings of Satan.

Acts 2:15-16

[15]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

I do point out that if Peter & them were falling and all that, Peter would not be standing to say all that, let alone any one sticking around. In the moment you had experienced that, was anyone speaking? No. Just the phenomenon having spotlight in the worship place with Jesus Christ back in the limelight.

Thank you for sharing but...I have heard that rational before where they call that fruit of joy as drunkenness.

Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit which is self control, therefore joy cannot be drunkenness as a house divided cannot stand.

Drunkenness being a work of the flesh, therefore it can never be the fruit of joy. Since we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, there is no way God would mimic drunkenness in any fruit of the Spirit. Since we are to have all the fruits of the Spirit, there can be nothing in that fruit that would cause us to lose self control & fall like a drunkard.

We are not to believe every spirit but test them, even the tongues they bring as there is a supernatural tongue the world speaks that is just gibberish nonsense and not a language of men. 1 John 4:1-6

 

[Christ4Me]

I don't see any place in scripture that says you must speak in tongues to be saved.

I am not exactly reading the same thing as @Lambano is though. I see no separating the born again of the Spirit from that baptism.

"Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. "

The fact that not all speak in tongues would deny that this promise is for all believers.

1 Corinthians 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

It is a confusing statement & although they referenced scripture for it, other scripture opposes that application, whether they meant tongue for proof of salvation or tongues by another baptism with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Lambano]

It is a confusing statement

What is the source and context of that statement?

 

[Enoch111]

But I respect those who do and just let them talk with God however He may lead them. That’s none of my business.

Yes, it is really none of our business if some Christians choose to speak in tongues. The only issue is the claim that you are not "Spirit-filled" if you have not spoken in *tongues*. That is pure nonsense and also false doctrine.

 

[Christ4Me]

Yes, it is really none of our business if some Christians choose to speak in tongues. The only issue is the claim that you are not "Spirit-filled" if you have not spoken in *tongues*. That is pure nonsense and also false doctrine.

I do not believe I nor any one else would be against it unless believers are talking about tongues for private use. If it was really for private use, why share that at all? It's not like they can share anything with another believer that use tongues for private use, right? It's private.

But that is not what is going on here. It is by that apostasy of believing they can receive the "Holy Spirit" again apart from salvation is how they are getting that kind of tongue as found in the world that is gibberish nonsense.

So it is really about caring for the body of Christ for those that have gone astray, hoping in the Lord that God is peradventuring to recover some from that snare of the devil that are held captive to do his will ( 2 timothy 2:24-26 )rather than pray normally and get their deification by the scripture; 2 Timothy 2:15-17

Proof that one does not need another drink of the One Spirit to get any gift from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Proof that tongues are not for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Proof that we should be concern for members of the body that have gone astray, saying otherwise.

1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Which having Christ's love for one another is the more excellent way.

 

[Christ4Me]

What is the source and context of that statement?

Another Christian forum's Statement of Faith. I do not remember if they always had it that way, but that part seems new to me.

The leaders are silent on my inquiry but it did get past moderation. I had joined the forum recently when this forum got shut down due to that storm. Members of that forum are answering for them, but I don't think they can know what they actually meant.

I am concern for the members of that forum & not just the staff as I am for certain members of this forum, even though most members here would never say to me that if I do not speak in tongues, I do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore I am not saved. They did not either but that comment in that Statement of faith sounds like that is how they may see me. They want more believers to join and I am trying to point out that part of their Statement of faith may be turning believers away since obviously not every one speaks in tongues & they will feel like they do not belong there.

I do not feel like I belong there and yet so far, they have not shown me the door because I think they know I am asking honest questions and maybe they can see my just & valid concerns by the scripture even though they may not agree with how I am rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do not want to send members that speak in tongues to go over there to give the staff a hard time, because I am led by Him to do this in meekness and gentleness, being patient by His hand, hoping He may peradventure to lead them to either clarify that comment or to repent if they actually meant that falsehood as I seem to be reading there.

I am hoping in the Lord that He is ministering to others and not just to me in these iron sharpen iron outreach ministries in these Christian forums..