How does a "Heresy" operate?

[Behold]

You start a Thread on exposing 'heresy' and yet you fail to be able to use your own points of emphasis to actually diagnose from scripture the actual heresy of 'pre-trib' rapture.

The "pre-Trib" Rapture, is not a Heresy.. so, no need for me to dissect it.

Even you should be able to understand that "The Time of the Gentiles" is not found in the Tribulation, or Grt Trib or in the Millennial Reign of Christ.

That's all that you really need to know, as once you understand this, then you know that the Body of Christ that is mostly Gentiles, will not be found where the "time of the Gentiles" is not found., and that is in the Trib-Grt Trib.

 

[amigo de christo]

The "pre-Trib" Rapture, is not a Heresy.. so, no need for me to dissect it.

Even you should be able to understand that "The Time of the Gentiles" is not found in the Tribulation, or Grt Trib or in the Millennial Reign of Christ.

That's all that you really need to know, as once you understand this, then you know that the Body of Christ that is mostly Gentiles, will not be found where the "time of the Gentiles" is not found., and that is in the Trib-Grt Trib.

And JESUS NEVER went around saying to all who beleived not on him . OH ITS OKAY , MY TRUTH IS NO BETTER THAN YOUR TRUTH
or any other religoins truth . WHY ON EARTH is CHRISTENDOM HEEDING SATANS INTERFAITH .

 

[David in NJ]

The "pre-Trib" Rapture, is not a Heresy.. so, no need for me to dissect it.

Even you should be able to understand that "The Time of the Gentiles" is not found in the Tribulation, or Grt Trib or in the Millennial Reign of Christ.

That's all that you really need to know, as once you understand this, then you know that the Body of Christ that is mostly Gentiles, will not be found where the "time of the Gentiles" is not found., and that is in the Trib-Grt Trib.

Well, if it is not a heresy you should be able to find a crystal clear scripture declaring it to be Truth.

We do not have any other option but to trust what God has spoken for us.

Shalom

 

[David in NJ]

100%

AWESOME

So here are direct commandments/TRUTH/directives from our Lord Jesus Christ:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Matthew 24:3 -14
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Right here we have been given CLEAR directives/commandments/TRUTH from our LORD as pertaining to BOTH the Resurrection and the Rapture.

#1- No such thing as 'pre-trib' for the Saints/Elect/Body of Christ

#2 - The GOSPEL going out to the world and Fulfilling IT's COURSE as directed by the Holy Spirit is the Time given by the LORD for:
A.) His Second Coming
B.) the Resurrection
C.) the Rapture

#3 - Matthew 24:29-31 = VALIDATES points #1 and #2

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


These scripture do not stand alone but are the culmination of all that the LORD spoke concerning His Return in previous passages in the Gospel.
Furthermore, the Apostles CONFIRMED these very things in their Letters to the churches = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and more

Shalom

 

[Ronald Nolette]

#1- No such thing as 'pre-trib' for the Saints/Elect/Body of Christ

#2 - The GOSPEL going out to the world and Fulfilling IT's COURSE as directed by the Holy Spirit is the Time given by the LORD for:
A.) His Second Coming
B.) the Resurrection
C.) the Rapture

#3 - Matthew 24:29-31 = VALIDATES points #1 and #2

Well you have a very different and serious misundstanding of the gospel preached during the tribulation. It is not the gospel of salvation but the gospel of the kingdom. Just because the word gospel is used do notmake it the same as trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sins.

Also it is not an invitation to get saved but is a witness to the nations. It i s very similar to teh gospel of John teh Baptist. It is a testimony to the nations the Lord is coming.

How you place the rapture with teh gospel of th ekingdom reaching all nations is a deep mystery. There is no sound connection to place it as you do.

Once again there is only one verse in Scripture that tells us when the rapture will occur.

These scripture do not stand alone but are the culmination of all that the LORD spoke concerning His Return in previous passages in the Gospel.
Furthermore, the Apostles CONFIRMED these very things in their Letters to the churches = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and more

Jesus physical return to earth is not part of the rapture at all.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Reader....

Regarding a Theological HERESY... as related to the BIBLE and Christianity..... we find...

1.) Heresy does not usually remove the verses, it usually adds to them a man made teaching, which creates the heresy.

Most of the time.......Heresies are created by twisting only a few bible verses..

How does this deceive the deceived??

They BELIEVE the twist, that has been placed on the verse, and that becomes how they SEE IT, and that just evolves... because the heretic who wrote it, will have an entire Theology of it, and the deceive one... will become captured by it all, eventually.

Now why do they believe it, when they didnt believe it 5 mins earlier?

1.) They read it, or someone is teaching them and they were not already of sufficient understanding of Paul'sTheology, that would have told them instantly......"that is a pack of lies".. "all that is false".

2.) Heresies are of the Devil, and they have supernatural power to deceive.... which means they have the power of deception.
They are empowered by the "father of Lies", and his power is the power to "spellbind" you, which the NT refers to as "mind blinded".
That means your mind is blinded so that you now believe what isn't true.
A "doctrine of Devils" is a man made Theology, that is empowered by demonic power. It has the power to cast a spell on your mind, so that its LIES, becomes your Truth.
This is : Deception.

So, lets take Calvinism and the 5-points... and I'l show you how a certain aspect of this demonic teaching, changes how the verses in the bible are perceived by you, once this false theology, owns your mind.

2.) For example, if i was a Hyper-Calvinist....then everytime i read the NT< and i saw these words....and phrases.

"Whosover"
"The World"
"All that Call"
"As many as"
"ALL That will"
"ALL"
"Each"
"for as many"

Then if i was a deceived Calvinist or "5 pointer", then my mind would twist the verses, into:

"only the elect"..
"only the pre-chosen"..
"only the Predestined"...

.= Every time i read......."whosoever"... "as many as"... "ALL that will"... "The World".... "each", "for as many".. "ALL".

This mental situation that has been caused by a "doctrine of devils".., is what the bible refers to as the "Bewitching power" of a doctrine of Devils, that is always created by a MAN...

Paul teaches this as "WHO.. has Bewitched you, so that you no longer obey the Truth"..

And all false religions, and heresies related to Christian Theology, are MAN MADE... .always.

Heresies also involve paying attention to certain verses (for example, that point to universal salvation for everyone), while unintentionally or intentionally ignoring all the verses that limit (for example, by showing that many unrepentant people will be lost forever) the first set of verses. One might call such a heresy a tunnel-vision interpretation of the Bible to support human reasonong, which many cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons employ concerning the truth.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well you have a very different and serious misundstanding of the gospel preached during the tribulation. It is not the gospel of salvation but the gospel of the kingdom. Just because the word gospel is used do notmake it the same as trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sins.

Also it is not an invitation to get saved but is a witness to the nations. It i s very similar to teh gospel of John teh Baptist. It is a testimony to the nations the Lord is coming.

How you place the rapture with teh gospel of th ekingdom reaching all nations is a deep mystery. There is no sound connection to place it as you do.

Once again there is only one verse in Scripture that tells us when the rapture will occur.

Jesus physical return to earth is not part of the rapture at all.

You been seriously deceived . I had no idea how dangerous pre trib was till i seen what you just wrote .
That somehow the gospel CHANGES during the tribulation . Oh my goodness i had no idea how
deadly the teaching of pre trib truly was . MY goodness . I cannot believe what i just seen you type .
You all promote a false gospel for those left behind . JESUS never once said
i will preach two gospels , let alone that somehow the gospel of salvation differes from the gospel of the kingdom .
The gospel of salvation is the gospel of the kingdom . THERE Will be no salvation OUTSIDE of
WHAT JESUS and paul and scores others preached .
And its no mystery as to why so many no longer preach the DIRE TRUTH of HAVING TO BELIEVE JESUS IS CHRIST .
You all keep preaching a second chance , WHEN THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE.
ONCE JESUS COMES FOR THE TRUE LAMBS , aka rapture , There is no second chance .
OH i already know you gonna say they will suffer the tribulation of the beast and of man against them .
BUD , JESUS already TOLD the true church IT WILL SUFFER TRIBULATION from men .
JUST NOT FROM GOD . but somehow pretrib tries to tie the great tribulation of man
that cometh against the CHURCH , as though THAT is not for the church .
Throughout all times i have seen and heard of A LOT OF BLOOD coming against the true saints
BUT YOU ALL HOLD to a fairy tale that somehow that wont apply to us last generation . ITS GONNA BE THE WORST
IN THE LAST GENERATION against the church that refused to conform to satans interfaith and a lie
A LIE , which i must add it seemth MOST FOLKS already beleive .

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus physical return to earth is not part of the rapture at all.

The Second Coming is the Resurrection = GOSPEL

No Second Coming = no resurrection = GOSPEL

No Resurrection = No rapture = GOSPEL

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You been seriously deceived . I had no idea how dangerous pre trib was till i seen what you just wrote .
That somehow the gospel CHANGES during the tribulation . Oh my goodness i had no idea how
deadly the teaching of pre trib truly was . MY goodness . I cannot believe what i just seen you type .
You all promote a false gospel for those left behind . JESUS never once said
i will preach two gospels , let alone that somehow the gospel of salvation differes from the gospel of the kingdom .
The gospel of salvation is the gospel of the kingdom . THERE Will be no salvation OUTSIDE of
WHAT JESUS and paul and scores others preached .
And its no mystery as to why so many no longer preach the DIRE TRUTH of HAVING TO BELIEVE JESUS IS CHRIST .
You all keep preaching a second chance , WHEN THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE.
ONCE JESUS COMES FOR THE TRUE LAMBS , aka rapture , There is no second chance .
OH i already know you gonna say they will suffer the tribulation of the beast and of man against them .
BUD , JESUS already TOLD the true church IT WILL SUFFER TRIBULATION from men .
JUST NOT FROM GOD . but somehow pretrib tries to tie the great tribulation of man
that cometh against the CHURCH , as though THAT is not for the church .
Throughout all times i have seen and heard of A LOT OF BLOOD coming against the true saints
BUT YOU ALL HOLD to a fairy tale that somehow that wont apply to us last generation . ITS GONNA BE THE WORST
IN THE LAST GENERATION against the church that refused to conform to satans interfaith and a lie
A LIE , which i must add it seemth MOST FOLKS already beleive .

Sorry but there are three gospels or 'good news" preached in the NT.

there was the gospel of the kingdom preached by JOhn. this was the fulfillment of the OT command to make a way for the Lord.

then there is the gospel of salvation which is to trust in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for sins. This is the only gospel that saves.

The third is the gospel of the kingdom preached as a witness or testimony to the nations. It is not for salvation but as a testimony to the Lords return to earth.

When the rapture happens (pre trib) there is plenty of opportunities to get saved! Until one makes the decision to recieve the mark of the beast they may get saved.

The tribulation from man is from man and has been going on since Pentecost. the 70th week of Daniel is Gods judgment on earth and especially Israelites to prepare the surviving nation to receive Jesus as Messiah and thus bring about His physical return.

We may or may not be teh last generation, but the church will be raptured sometime before Israel signs the 7 year treaty with the Antichrist! Paul declared so.

I have no idea what lie you believe many in the church supposedly believe so I cannot answr to that.

But remember we have made the word Gospel an enormous word and the gospel of salvation is a big deal. but the church has more than one "good news" or gospel it proclaims.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Second Coming is the Resurrection = GOSPEL

No Second Coming = no resurrection = GOSPEL

No Resurrection = No rapture = GOSPEL

Well there is a resurrection shortly after Jesus physically returns to earth. Rev. 20 calls it the first resurrection and is limited to trib saints.

there is the resurrection that occurs at the rapture which is a pretribulational event.

The rapture and the return of Jesus are not connected events that one relies on the other.

 

[David in NJ]

Well there is a resurrection shortly after Jesus physically returns to earth. Rev. 20 calls it the first resurrection and is limited to trib saints.

there is the resurrection that occurs at the rapture which is a pretribulational event.

The rapture and the return of Jesus are not connected events that one relies on the other.

There is only one Second Coming and only one Resurrection at His Coming and only one Rapture which occurs AFTER the Resurrection.

The First Resurrection of Rev ch20 is the SAME Resurrection at His Second Coming.

There dose not exist in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, more then His First Coming and His Second Coming.

One Second Coming
One Resurrection at His Coming = First Resurrection
One Rapture AFTER the Resurrection

This is the GOSPEL TRUTH and the Only TRUTH that has proceeded from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4

A separate group of tribulation saints that are left-behind is a man-made false doctrine as is pre-trib rapture for it opposes the words of Christ and the Apostles and OT Prophets.
All true saints will suffer tribulation = this began in Genesis and will continue until His Second Coming.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good question, thanks.

Paul would defines it as a theological belief that is opposition against the Truth, regarding God's Grace.
And once the heresy is believed, you wont "obey the Truth" which is to Believe it, because you wont be able to, because the false doctrine takes over the mind, corrupts you inside yourself.... "mind blindness".. against specific Truth.

Here is the thing about the Devil, who is the author of all Heresies.. He uses men who are demonized .. And that means, they are getting revelation from the dark side, that they are led (deceived) to believe is the BIBLE.
So, some of them create stories about "golden plates" and an angel who led them to the plates. (Mormonism)

Generally, the rule is.....the crazier it is, the more people will believe it.
Hitler worked from that aspect...
Iran, using the USA Media, created the same situation, that caused USA Colleges, to erupt into their puppets. And the same happened on London streets..
And in the case of the Bible, the Devil wants to GET RID OF THE CROSS, as that is where God and fallen man, come together.

So, to get rid of The Cross, as a Heresy, you change how it functions.. You deny how it function, or you LIMIT how it Function, you change how its offered.... so that its misrepresented as a Theology that is taught to try to cause that, and it does.

= Calvinism has ruined the faith of hundreds of million of Christians.

Its the worst doctrine of devils, in my opinion, because its a direct assault on The Cross of Christ, whereas something Like Catholicism, also insults The Cross, but this Cult never denies it.....they just try to add to it.

So, That's Calvinism, and many other "ISMs"

Can't go through every post Behold.
Don't know if @Bob Estey got his reply or if he reposted.

I'd define a heresy in a different way.

If we describe it as being anything that doesn't acknowledge the truth...then we get push-back because
every denomination believes they have the truth.

I'd say that a heresy is any believe that wanders away from what the creaters of a belief system taught, wrote, believed, etc.

In the case of Christianity,,,,any odd idea that came up after the reformation and was NOT accepted by the early church will have to be defined as a heresy.

Here are some:
JESUS IS JUST A MAN
GOD CHOOSES WHO WILL BE SAVED
WE COULD NOT DO ANY GOOD AND STILL BELONG TO THE KINGDOM
NO SUCH THING AS THE TRINITY
THE RAPTURE

Now, we could debate the above,,,,but these beliefs were not present in the early church.

Heresy is not a "bad word".
It just means a belief that is not present in MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY.

I post this because sometimes we'll say that something is heretical and it's taken badly and personally....
this should not be so. It's just a fact.

 

[David in NJ]

Can't go through every post Behold.
Don't know if @Bob Estey got his reply or if he reposted.

I'd define a heresy in a different way.

If we describe it as being anything that doesn't acknowledge the truth...then we get push-back because
every denomination believes they have the truth.

I'd say that a heresy is any believe that wanders away from what the creaters of a belief system taught, wrote, believed, etc.

In the case of Christianity,,,,any odd idea that came up after the reformation and was NOT accepted by the early church will have to be defined as a heresy.

Here are some:
JESUS IS JUST A MAN
GOD CHOOSES WHO WILL BE SAVED
WE COULD NOT DO ANY GOOD AND STILL BELONG TO THE KINGDOM
NO SUCH THING AS THE TRINITY
THE RAPTURE

Now, we could debate the above,,,,but these beliefs were not present in the early church.

Heresy is not a "bad word".
It just means a belief that is not present in MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY.

I post this because sometimes we'll say that something is heretical and it's taken badly and personally....
this should not be so. It's just a fact.

Every denomination, even non-denominational churches have at least one heresy.

You hold to at least one as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

Every denomination, even non-denominational churches have at least one heresy.

You hold to at least one as well.

I can't think of a heresy that the AofG church teaches.
Can't think of a heresy that the Nazarene church teaches.
Can you? I'm sure there are others...I'm not going to make a list.


As when you say "You hold to at least one as well"....
do you mean ME personally or do you mean YOU used in general?

 

[David in NJ]

I can't think of a heresy that the AofG church teaches.
Can't think of a heresy that the Nazarene church teaches.
Can you? I'm sure there are others...I'm not going to make a list.


As when you say "You hold to at least one as well"....
do you mean ME personally or do you mean YOU used in general?

"You" as in 'general/everyone/myself included'.

The most common current day heresy is pre-trib rapture.

We cannot see the heresy(s) that we hold to unless we fully submit to Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

If i hold to a heresy and i am willing to submit to Christ , then HE will lead me 'out of' the heresy by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

Today, MOST christians/people will NOT yield themselves COMPLETELY to reproof/correction and Holy Spirit instruction.

 

[GodsGrace]

"You" as in 'general/everyone/myself included'.

The most common current day heresy is pre-trib rapture.

We cannot see the heresy(s) that we hold to unless we fully submit to Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

If i hold to a heresy and i am willing to submit to Christ , then HE will lead me 'out of' the heresy by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

Today, MOST christians/people will NOT yield themselves COMPLETELY to reproof/correction and Holy Spirit instruction.

I agree.
I don't know too much about eschatology, and you mention pre-trib rapture.
I don't know if this means you believe in some other kind of rapture....
the early church didn't believe in any rapture.
There's no talk of it in any writings but began to appear after the reformation...I think as late as the 1800's.

Not to change the subject...I generally agree with what you've stated above.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is only one Second Coming and only one Resurrection at His Coming and only one Rapture which occurs AFTER the Resurrection.

The First Resurrection of Rev ch20 is the SAME Resurrection at His Second Coming.

There dose not exist in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, more then His First Coming and His Second Coming.

One Second Coming
One Resurrection at His Coming = First Resurrection
One Rapture AFTER the Resurrection

This is the GOSPEL TRUTH and the Only TRUTH that has proceeded from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4

A separate group of tribulation saints that are left-behind is a man-made false doctrine as is pre-trib rapture for it opposes the words of Christ and the Apostles and OT Prophets.
All true saints will suffer tribulation = this began in Genesis and will continue until His Second Coming.

Just saw this.
I agree.

 

[David in NJ]

You been seriously deceived . I had no idea how dangerous pre trib was till i seen what you just wrote .
That somehow the gospel CHANGES during the tribulation . Oh my goodness i had no idea how
deadly the teaching of pre trib truly was . MY goodness . I cannot believe what i just seen you type .
You all promote a false gospel for those left behind . JESUS never once said
i will preach two gospels , let alone that somehow the gospel of salvation differes from the gospel of the kingdom .
The gospel of salvation is the gospel of the kingdom . THERE Will be no salvation OUTSIDE of
WHAT JESUS and paul and scores others preached .
And its no mystery as to why so many no longer preach the DIRE TRUTH of HAVING TO BELIEVE JESUS IS CHRIST .
You all keep preaching a second chance , WHEN THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE.
ONCE JESUS COMES FOR THE TRUE LAMBS , aka rapture , There is no second chance .
OH i already know you gonna say they will suffer the tribulation of the beast and of man against them .
BUD , JESUS already TOLD the true church IT WILL SUFFER TRIBULATION from men .
JUST NOT FROM GOD . but somehow pretrib tries to tie the great tribulation of man
that cometh against the CHURCH , as though THAT is not for the church .
Throughout all times i have seen and heard of A LOT OF BLOOD coming against the true saints
BUT YOU ALL HOLD to a fairy tale that somehow that wont apply to us last generation . ITS GONNA BE THE WORST
IN THE LAST GENERATION against the church that refused to conform to satans interfaith and a lie
A LIE , which i must add it seemth MOST FOLKS already beleive .

You been seriously deceived . I had no idea how dangerous pre trib was till i seen what you just wrote .
That somehow the gospel CHANGES during the tribulation . Oh my goodness i had no idea how

AH, now you SEE my Dear Brother, what i have been WARNING everyone of(same as you) about the DANGER of one little lie and how it becomes a MONSTER LIE

 

[JLB]

find...

1.) Heresy does not usually remove the verses, it usually adds to them a man made teaching, which creates the heresy.

Heresy is what Satan uses to divide the Church into denominations.

Heresy means to overthrow a city.

How is a house, city or kingdom overthrown and destroyed?

divided.


For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19 KJV


For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19 NKJV


For there must in fact be divisions among you, so that those of you who are approved may be evident. 1 Corinthians 11:19 NET

 

[amigo de christo]

Heresy is what Satan uses to divide the Church into denominations.

Heresy means to overthrow a city.

How is a house, city or kingdom overthrown and destroyed?


divided.

lets finish that my friend . correct you are about heresays is how satan uses to divide the church .
But reader beware he is using the LIE , another heresay to now BRING THEM TOGETHER AGAIN
as ONE and this heresay denies PURE DOCTRINE and even now it is having the denominations
to find common ground with ALL THE RELIGOINS TOO . THEY GONNA MERGE THE RELIGIONS of the world
with CHRISTENDOM all under the guise its of love and of GOD . More and more
are now even buying into the lie that our truth is no better than any other religoins truth
that GOD is within all the religoins and we need to come together as one for world peace n safety .
That be of ANTI CHRIST F RIEND . but it sure knows how to make it sound so good and loving and necessary
for humanity . The devil is a liar . JESUS is being denied and yet many seem to love this other version of
what they think is THE LOVE OF GOD when its clearly of anti christ .