How Evil Are Humans?

[Timtofly]

You said “gather”… I didn’t.
You said “ I said gather”…I didn’t.

“If” “A” person “takes” “A” fruit from “A” tree,
And eats “A” fruit. They have “not gathered’.

“IF” Adam …
Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

“THEN” Adam would have LIVED FOR EVER.

Adam did NOT put forth his HAND and TAKE ALSO of the TREE OF LIFE.

[23] “Therefore” the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

“Therefore”….”Because” Adam DID NOT “ALSO” TAKE and EAT of the TREE OF LIFE….
ADAM was SENT OUT OF THE GARDEN.

Gen 5:
[5] And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

AND…..OUTSIDE of the Garden ADAM Lived and Adams body DIED at AGE 930 years.

Not my job to Understand FOR you, what “gather” means, what “IF” means, what “opportunity” means,

You stated Adam had an opportunity, yet you still have not proved that God gave him one. And since he was being booted out of the Garden, an opportunity to gather would be better than to just bite once and leave the fruit still hanging on the tree, since obviously removing any fruit is called gathering.

"collect plants, fruits, etc., for food"

God used the word "lest".

"and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

"God was preventing Adam from using his hand to gather."

That is the opposite of opportunity. Adam had no opportunity, because God did not allow it.

Adam's dead corruptible physical body died 900+ years later.

Adam's original incorruptible, without sin and death, physical body was replaced with his body of death the instant he disobeyed God. That is physical death. What you call physical death is the end result of Adam's condition of death the moment Adam disobeyed. The end was the separation of soul and body. The soul either waited in sheol or Abraham's bosom. The body returns to dust.

The reverse will happen at the rapture and just as instantly.

Enoch was a type of those caught up at the Second Coming. He was translated that he should not see death. Noah is a type of those being removed from Judgment, but still living on the earth after Judgment.

The church will not be found on the earth during the Millennium. Nor will Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The firstfruits of the Second Coming harvest chosen directly by Jesus will be the first generation of that Millennial Kingdom.

 

[Timtofly]

There is NO scripture that proves anything....just your and my opinions....which count for Nothing!!..period.

You have produced NO scripture to prove that Adam had faith...

All you have done here once again...is speak in your own understanding...

I never said Adam had faith. I said Adam lacked faith, not that Adam lacked knowledge.

 

[Ritajanice]

I never said Adam had faith. I said Adam lacked faith, not that Adam lacked knowledge.

Now your saying Adam lacked faith...fine..where in God’s word did he say Adam lacked faith?

How would you know what faith was in that time?

We have God given Faith...do you think that Adam had the same faith as us?

When you say he lacked faith, even though you can’t prove that he lacked faith in scripture.

Explain what you mean, when you said he lacked faith and on what grounds did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Timtofly]

Now your saying Adam lacked faith...fine..where in God’s word did he say Adam lacked faith?

How would you know what faith was in that time?

We have God given Faith...do you think that Adam had the same faith as us?

How did Abel have faith? How did Enoch have faith? Did they exist in Adam's time?

What verse claims God gives any human faith in relation to Abel and Enoch?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

 

[Ritajanice]

How did Abel have faith? How did Enoch have faith? Did they exist in Adam's time?

What verse claims God gives any human faith in relation to Abel and Enoch?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

I asked you the question are you able to answer or not?

We’re talking about Adam...

You’ve just given another summary.

Adam lacked faith...how would you know this?

 

[Taken]

You stated Adam had an opportunity, yet you still have not proved that God gave him one. And since he was being booted out of the Garden, an opportunity to gather would be better than to just bite once and leave the fruit still hanging on the tree, since obviously removing any fruit is called gathering.

You seem to have difficulty with simple understanding.

Gathering, eating how much, fruit hanging on the tree, all irrelevant.

Before Adam was sent OUT of the Garden, he could have taken A fruit, from the Tree of Life, A bite, A swallow, which is having eaten.

He didn’t and was therefore sent OUT of the garden and outside of the Garden at age 930 years Adams body died.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Adam disobeyed God. That is what happened. Most point to the fruit, and totally miss the point, that Adam disobeyed God.




Those are Eve's words, interpretations of God's Word. So many posters claim people post only their opinion. Now we have posters posting Eve's opinion, and they think Eve heard God say something, that God never said. If God had said those words, they should be recorded in chapter 2 where God actually gave the command.

Eve was not talking to the serpent 30 minutes after God planted the Garden of Eden. We don't need details filled in by other humans months or years after we already know what God said.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

If you are being so strict on your Scripture, did they die after Eve took a bite, or Adam? Did Eve die the second she touched it, even before she could take a bite? Seems like if that is what God actually said, she would have been dead the instant she touched the fruit, and realized she was naked way before she actually ate the fruit.

If you all are so in to speculation about Eve's opinion and touching the fruit, do you think Eve waited a few seconds after touching the fruit, or was it a lie, and she never hesitated to see if touching even did anything?

You all can speculate all you want and even quote Scripture. Paul said as by one man, sin entered the world. Was Paul being sexist, and should have pointed out that when Eve touched the fruit, sin entered the world?

When did the moment of disobedience happen? How many had to break commands before God was serious about the one thing we know God did say?

Satan lied about God's Word.

Even added to God's Word.

Adam disobeyed God's Word.

Yet it was Adam's disobedience that produced the result God said would happen.

Still no scripture.

 

[quietthinker]

How will human religion and human theology help you out with God's Word? Why not just read God's Word, instead of seeking human opinion?

They might be able to fill you in on how the record of the Torah came about.

 

[Timtofly]

You seem to have difficulty with simple understanding.

Gathering, eating how much, fruit hanging on the tree, all irrelevant.

Before Adam was sent OUT of the Garden, he could have taken A fruit, from the Tree of Life, A bite, A swallow, which is having eaten.

He didn’t and was therefore sent OUT of the garden and outside of the Garden at age 930 years Adams body died.

You keep saying he "could have". No, he was not given a single "could have" moment.

 

[Timtofly]

Still no scripture.

We are talking about Genesis 2 and 3. What Scripture are you looking at?

 

[amigo de christo]

it be LORD praising and thankin time in the building . Okay you may return to the post now . But before you do
LIFT THOSE HANDS AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS KING .

 

[Timtofly]

I asked you the question are you able to answer or not?

We’re talking about Adam...

You’ve just given another summary.

Adam lacked faith...how would you know this?

He disobeyed God. Do you all not understand the meaning of disobedience? Disobedience is breaking a specific command.

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: ...."

When Adam took a bite, he disobeyed God. That is a lack of faith. As pointed out in Hebrews 11, faith is doing what God commands without knowing the result of that obedience.

 

[amigo de christo]

He disobeyed God. Do you all not understand the meaning of disobedience? Disobedience is breaking a specific command.

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: ...."

When Adam took a bite, he disobeyed God. That is a lack of faith. As pointed out in Hebrews 11, faith is doing what God commands without knowing the result of that obedience.

Yep . And look at how the sepent did it . He got eve to believe HIM , that ye shall NOT DIE
and bingo she now believed and trusted in and obeyed the serpent .
WHO we obey is whose we are . DIDNT paul write that to the church .
To not be decieved that GOD wont be mocked ..........
So now i want to leave us all with a friendly reminder .
LET us not be as eve and believe the serpent and his men .
LET US BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID . here let me leave the reminder for us all .
HE WHO BELIEVES shall not perish but have everlasting life
he who believes not IS CONDMENED already ................................
Lets not heed the serpent who then might try and say , NAY nay ye wont perish , ye wont be condmened if ye believe not
YET IT SEEMS MANY NOW CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE DEVIL and his all incluisive love lie message .
BUT HEY , we wont do that ...........right my friend .......................right ..................................................right .............

 

[Taken]

He disobeyed God. Do you all not understand the meaning of disobedience? Disobedience is breaking a specific command.

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: ...."

Told to EAT OF every tree and herb…
* With ONE exception Told BEFORE he ATE….
TO NOT EAT.
* With ONE consequence Told BEFORE he ATE…
TO DIE.

Adam DISOBEYED.
Adam ATE of the ONE excepted TREE.
Adams “UNdERSTANDING” of further Consequences” BECAME REALIZED…
* SHAME…(Adam used leaves to Cover his shameful self)
* HARDSHIP….(till a cursed ground to feed himself)
* SEPARATION…(from God)

* ADAM….Confessed what he had done.
… Which YOU should have Learned WHAT man Confessing TO God means
* God ……Covered Adams (SHAME) body.
… Which YOU should have Learned WHAT
God Covering a mans SHAME means
* Gods TREE OF LIFE didn’t DISAPPEAR…
* God TREE OF LIFE was RIGHT THERE IN THE GARDEN WHERE ADAM WAS…
* Nothing whatsoever PREVENTED Adam from TAKING from TREE OF LIFE and Eating.
* ADAM DID NOT choose to reach out and Take from the TREE OF LIFE and Eat…

* THEREFORE…. Separated ADAM FROM GOD, BY sending ADAM OUT from WHERE GOD WAS…..duh…IN The GARDEN!

* YOU should have learned a mans Disobedience to Gods WORD, IS a SHAME unto the man.
* YOU should have learned a mans CONFESSED SHAME is FORGIVEN and COVERED by God.
* YOU should have learned FORGIVENESS From God DOES NOT “MEAN” the man “WILL NOT SUFFER the Consequences.”
* Adams CONSEQUENCE. Was DEATH.
* Adam COULD HAVE eaten from the Tree of Life, and NOT SUFFERED DEATH, and NOT SUFFERED “separation” FROM God, (whether Adam was IN or OUTSIDE of the Garden.)…..

IF….as Scripture says…
Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and NOW, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It is OBVIOUS YOU do not comprehend …
NOW in Scripture WAS While Adam was STILL IN the Garden and he COULD HAVE put forth his OWN hand, TAKEN from the Tree of Life, Eaten, and lived FOR EVER…

Adam DID NOT MAKE THAT CHOICE.

You trying to argue Adam DID NOT HAVE THAT CHOICE IS your own failure…

When Adam took a bite, he disobeyed God. That is a lack of faith. As pointed out in Hebrews 11, faith is doing what God commands without knowing the result of that obedience.

Adams Failure WAS Disobedience.
Adams Success WAS Confessing his Disobedience.
Adams Failure WAS to NOT ALSO Eat from the Tree of Life BEFORE he was sent OUT of the Garden.

You trying to MAKE Adam’s lack of Obedience being ABOUT FAITH, when ADAM himself had NO CONCEPT of FAITH, is disingenuous….and distracting FROM Adams Opportunity to have CHOSEN to eat from the Tree of Life BEFORE he was SENT out of the Garden.

The Meaning of FAITH was not revealed to men until LONG AFTER Adams physical bodily DEATH.

Your argument is moot.
Your distraction moot.

 

[Timtofly]

Adams Success WAS Confessing

Please point out in Scripture where Adam confessed?

The Meaning of FAITH was not revealed to men until LONG AFTER Adams physical bodily DEATH.

Faith is trusting without knowledge. Faith never had to be explained.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

You don't have to understand faith to exercise faith. Abel had faith, so your point is moot.

 

[Taken]

Please point out in Scripture where Adam confessed?

Gen 3:
[9] And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

[12] And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Gen 3:
[9] And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

[12] And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

He did confess while blaming Eve.

 

[Taken]

Faith is trusting without knowledge.

Not so.
God IS FAITHFUL,
God IS ALL-Knowing.

Faith never had to be explained.

But YET it was!

Deut 7:
[9] Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Eph 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

You don't have to understand faith to exercise faith.

Gods Knowledge and Gods Understanding is Gods desire for mankind, not Ignorance.

Abel had faith, so your point is moot.

The topic was Adam and his option to eat of the Tree of Life, then Adams confession of eating of the tree of Good and Evil.
Scripture reveal both points are true.
No, my point was not moot.

Any mans FAITH IN God, is a Gift From God.
Men who claim to “HAVE FAITH”, should KNOW:
What Faith is…
Who Gifted it to them…
Why it was Gifted to them…

No, that is not a moot point.

 

[Taken]

He did confess while blaming Eve.

Yes. Adam revealed his confession and WHO influenced him to eat of the tree of good and evil.

It should have been Adam saying to Eve…
“What have you done” ?
Lesson learned, too late.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

He did confess while blaming Eve.

Yes. Adam revealed his confession and WHO influenced him to eat of the tree of good and evil.

It should have been Adam saying to Eve…
“What have you done” ?
Lesson learned, too late.

Understatement. By Adam sin entered the world.