How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[Dave L]

View attachment 4784

Why do I have this "run down" feeling?

 

[OzSpen]

Any one who believes can seek baptism and repent. It excludes nobody but unbelievers.

That's not what Jesus taught!

'Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:14-15 NASB).

Jesus proclaimed repentance and belief (faith) to happen together. You're the one making the Gospel only available for believers - the elect. That's not the Gospel message.

 

[OzSpen]

Why am I not convinced?

Because you have a fixation against certain verses that promote free will in the response to the Gospel. I can agree with your theology if I eliminate the verses I've used in this thread to counter your Calvinistic unconditional election and irresistible grace.

 

[OzSpen]

It's OK boys. We all have problems we like to take out on others. That's a part of growing up.

This is an Appeal to Ridicule logical fallacy. It is fallacious reasoning.

 

[justbyfaith]

debate...Romans 1:29 (kjv), 2 Corinthians 12:20-21 (kjv).

 

[CoreIssue]

Why do I have this "run down" feeling?

You took a shot at trying to justify yourself, but it failed, of course.

 

[Dave L]

You took a shot at trying to justify yourself, but it failed, of course.

“The one who says he is in the light but still hates his fellow Christian is still in the darkness.” (1 John 2:9) (NET)

 

[Dave L]

This is an Appeal to Ridicule logical fallacy. It is fallacious reasoning.

“The one who says he is in the light but still hates his fellow Christian is still in the darkness.” (1 John 2:9) (NET)

 

[Dave L]

Because you have a fixation against certain verses that promote free will in the response to the Gospel. I can agree with your theology if I eliminate the verses I've used in this thread to counter your Calvinistic unconditional election and irresistible grace.

If you must do something to save yourself, it is salvation by works. It is no different from any other world religion.

 

[Dave L]

That's not what Jesus taught!

'Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:14-15 NASB).

Jesus proclaimed repentance and belief (faith) to happen together. You're the one making the Gospel only available for believers - the elect. That's not the Gospel message.

Jesus was coaxing Jews to embrace the new covenant. Repent = change your mind.

 

[logabe]

logabe,

Please provide the evidence from Greek grammarians. 'I believe that Greek word is helkuo' is hardly a statement to bank on. 'I believe' is not based on facts.

Do you read and exegete the Greek NT?

Oz

Don't even know what it is... but if you want to use draw... I am fine with that.

 

[bbyrd009]

'I believe' is not based on facts.

no beliefs in courtrooms huh :)

 

[Helen]

While this is off-topic I had mentioned it recently. Too many writers have a problem with lie, lay, lain, laid, etc. The correct term would be "let it lie" (since lay is past tense e.g. "It lay there for a long time").

You really are the posting police..

Most of our posts must drive you crazy...I was also bad at school, I goofed around too much and was the class clown. Now I am paying for it!!

Keep up the good work. :)

 

[Enoch111]

Was Moses saved?

Of course. Read Hebrews 11.

 

[amadeus]

Righteousness is not salvation. No OT was born again into the resurrection.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

Surely the "all of these things" includes all of the good things God has prepared for those who love Him? Even if righteousness is not, as you say, salvation, can we approach or obtain salvation ultimately without it?

 

[CoreIssue]

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

Surely the "all of these things" includes all of the good things God has prepared for those who love Him? Even if righteousness is not, as you say, salvation, can we approach or obtain salvation ultimately without it?[/QUOTE]

Righteousness means right in the eyes of God. Can we be right in the eyes of God unless saved?

 

[amadeus]

Righteousness means right in the eyes of God. Can we be right in the eyes of God unless saved?

You are saying I would guess that you believe that we cannot. In the end this may be true, but before our time is ended, can we be right and then change our mind? Remembering that God is no respecter of persons, consider the unnamed prophet who was sent out of Judah to Jeroboam the first king of the northern 10 tribes in I Kings chapter 13.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are saying I would guess that you believe that we cannot. In the end this may be true, but before our time is ended, can we be right and then change our mind? Remembering that God is no respecter of persons, consider the unnamed prophet who was sent out of Judah to Jeroboam the first king of the northern 10 tribes in I Kings chapter 13.

In the Old Testament they were not born again, so they could stop believing because they were under law.

We are not under law, are born again, so Romans 8 applies. It says we are predestined all the way to glorification.

OT salvation issues do not apply to the NT. They were pre-resurrection of Christ.

 

[amadeus]

In the Old Testament they were not born again, so they could stop believing because they were under law.

We are not under law, are born again, so Romans 8 applies. It says we are predestined all the way to glorification.

OT salvation issues do not apply to the NT. They were pre-resurrection of Christ.

You don't understand what I meant by God being no respecter of persons. More is required of us today than was required of those in the OT because we have so much more than they:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" Luke 12:48

 

[CoreIssue]

You don't understand what I meant by God being no respecter of persons. More is required of us today than was required of those in the OT because we have so much more than they:

"But her that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" Luke 12:48

I do understand and what you said is right in line with what I was.