How is it that you cannot see?

[Matthias]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 This same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And that light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

(John 1:1-5, Geneva Bible, 1599)

http://www.genevabible.org/files/Geneva_Bible/New_Testament/John.pdf

How is it that people cannot see that John is writing in his prologue about Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth - by expressing what existed in his mind. He is alluding in the prologue of his Gospel to Genesis 1.

”God said let there be …” and what previously had existed only in his mind was literally brought into being.

You see it, don’t you @Tommy Cool?

 

[Stumpmaster]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 This same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And that light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

(John 1:1-5, Geneva Bible, 1599)

http://www.genevabible.org/files/Geneva_Bible/New_Testament/John.pdf

How is it that people cannot see that John is writing in his prologue about Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth - by expressing what existed in his mind. He is alluding in the prologue of his Gospel to Genesis 1.

”God said let there be …” and what previously had existed only in his mind was literally brought into being.

You see it, don’t you @Tommy Cool?

And here we are . . .

 

[Matthias]

And here we are . . .

Not by accident; by design.

 

[Matthias]

“In the beginning was the word, and it was spoken.” - N. Scott Momaday

 

[Matthias]

“I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.”

(The Apostles’ Creed)

 

[Mr E]

“In the beginning was the word, and it was spoken.” - N. Scott Momaday

Except it doesn't say that at all in Genesis.

Genesis tells us that in the beginning elohim created the heavens and the earth. "Yahweh" a specific, particular elohim isn't even mentioned until a reprisal account that begins in the second chapter. It's a retelling of this one particular elohim's involvement and it's specific to the creation of one particular man who was formed in His (Yahweh's) likeness.

What it says in Genesis is that everything was created by elohim and as an elohim, Yahweh was involved in the creating. Further, if you can get your head around the idea that there were others creating, you see all those things formed in chapter one as already existing when Yahweh gets involved. What John 1 recognizes as the word-- Genesis 1 describes as the light.

John 1 goes on to make this point clear....

In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

 

[Matthias]

Except it doesn't say that at all in Genesis.

Genesis tells us that in the beginning elohim created the heavens and the earth. "Yahweh" a specific, particular elohim isn't even mentioned until a reprisal account that begins in the second chapter. It's a retelling of this one particular elohim's involvement and it's specific to the creation of one particular man who was formed in His (Yahweh's) likeness.

What it says in Genesis is that everything was created by elohim and as an elohim, Yahweh was involved in the creating. Further, if you can get your head around the idea that there were others creating, you see all those things formed in chapter one as already existing when Yahweh gets involved. What John 1 recognizes as the word-- Genesis 1 describes as the light.

John 1 goes on to make this point clear....

In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

“I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself and spreading out the earth all alone.”

(Isaiah 44:24)

 

[Matthias]

“In the beginning was the word, and it was spoken.” - N. Scott Momaday

“By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host.”

(Psalm 33:6)

 

[Mr E]

“I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself and spreading out the earth all alone.”

(Isaiah 44:24)

Are you suggesting I got it wrong?

Read Isaiah 44.... the whole thing, beginning with the distinction made at the start of it...

This is what the LORD, the one who made you, says—
the one who formed you in the womb and helps you:

It's the same creation language from Genesis 2, and the distinction is made between this elohim who formed YOU, and those who form idols.

Isaiah (like John) is retelling the creation story from the spiritual perspective--

For I will pour water on the parched ground
and cause streams to flow on the dry land.
I will pour my Spirit on your offspring
and my blessing on your children.
They will sprout up like a tree in the grass,
like poplars beside channels of water.

Yahweh is declaring His unique stature-- as Chief among all elohim. The Father of all and Lord over all.

“I am the first and I am the last,
there is no God but me.

From verse 9- Isaiah goes into great detail regarding God's view of those 'craftsmen' -carpenters, blacksmiths and the like-- those who form idols---- calling them things which their hands have made.... and identifying them as false gods. He's talking about those elohim in Genesis 1. You either see it, or you don't.

All who form idols are nothing;
the things in which they delight are worthless.

 

[Matthias]

Are you suggesting I got it wrong?

Read Isaiah 44.... the whole thing, beginning with the distinction made at the start of it...

This is what the LORD, the one who made you, says—
the one who formed you in the womb and helps you:

It's the same creation language from Genesis 2, and the distinction is made between this elohim who formed YOU, and those who form idols.

Isaiah (like John) is retelling the creation story from the spiritual perspective--

For I will pour water on the parched ground
and cause streams to flow on the dry land.
I will pour my Spirit on your offspring
and my blessing on your children.
They will sprout up like a tree in the grass,
like poplars beside channels of water.

Yahweh is declaring His unique stature-- as Chief among all elohim. The Father of all and Lord over all.

“I am the first and I am the last,
there is no God but me.

From verse 9- Isaiah goes into great detail regarding God's view of those 'craftsmen' -carpenters, blacksmiths and the like-- those who form idols---- calling them things which their hands have made.... and identifying them as false gods. He's talking about those elohim in Genesis 1. You either see it, or you don't.

All who form idols are nothing;
the things in which they delight are worthless.

I’m simply asserting, against you, that Yahweh - alone, by himself - spoke the creation into existence.

 

[Matthias]

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”

(Genesis 1:1)

God -> Yahweh

 

[Mr E]

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”

(Genesis 1:1)

God -> Yahweh

Be honest with yourself, if not with others. What does it actually say @Matthias ?

In the beginning _ _ _ _ _ _ created the heavens and the earth.

It's what everything that follows is founded upon. Including John and Isaiah, who understood Genesis, even if you do not. How appropriate-- your title for this thread.

But it's right there if anyone would drop their notions and read the text without the manipulation of translators. It goes on to explain how it is that Isaiah says what he says.... concerning Yahweh, who of course was himself one of those divine beings (elohim).

Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light! God saw that the light was good, so God separated the light from the darkness.

God is spirit. --What we come to associate as God, is based on our understanding which was taught to us by Jesus- the Christ. He taught us that "God" (generic use) is in fact to be thought of as 'our Father' in heaven, and His kingdom is not earthly, but an inner realm. Right there 'in the beginning we see this 'God' the Father, hovering over the surface of the water and it is His bringing of the light that forever makes the distinction between what was (darkness) and what He brought (light).

 

[Matthias]

“I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.”

(The Apostles’ Creed)

“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; Mark 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).”

(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Abridged Edition, p. 244)

It is this one God whom I believe, alone, by himself, spoke the creation into existence. It is this one God whom I believe John is alluding to in the prologue of his Gospel.

 

[Mr E]

“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; Mark 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).”

(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Abridged Edition, p. 244)

It is this one God whom I believe, alone, by himself, spoke the creation into existence. It is this one God whom I believe John is alluding to in the prologue of his Gospel.

Very convenient for you to completely ignore the actual text. Something you constantly chastise others for doing.

Cling to your commentaries friend.... I hope they are fireproof.

 

[Matthias]

Be honest with yourself, if not with others. What does it actually say @Matthias ?

In the beginning _ _ _ _ _ _ created the heavens and the earth.

It's what everything that follows is founded upon. Including John and Isaiah, who understood Genesis, even if you do not. How appropriate-- your title for this thread.

But it's right there if anyone would drop their notions and read the text without the manipulation of translators. It goes on to explain how it is that Isaiah says what he says.... concerning Yahweh, who of course was himself one of those divine beings (elohim).

Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light! God saw that the light was good, so God separated the light from the darkness.

God is spirit. --What we come to associate as God, is based on our understanding which was taught to us by Jesus- the Christ. He taught us that "God" (generic use) is in fact to be thought of as 'our Father' in heaven, and His kingdom is not earthly, but an inner realm. Right there 'in the beginning we see this 'God' the Father, hovering over the surface of the water and it is His bringing of the light that forever makes the distinction between what was (darkness) and what He brought (light).

I’m expressing in this thread what I believe is the truth concerning the identity of the creator of the heavens and the earth.

 

[Matthias]

Very convenient for you to completely ignore the actual text. Something you constantly chastise others for doing.

I’ve stated who I believe scripture identifies as the creator of the heavens and the earth. You have done the same and we aren’t in agreement.

Cling to your commentaries friend.... I hope they are fireproof.

I’ve considered your commentary on the matter and find it unpersuasive. What else can you reasonably ask for?

 

[Mr E]

I’m expressing in this thread what I believe is the truth concerning the identity of the creator of the heavens and the earth.

No.... you are obviously calling someone out for not being able to see something you insist is plainly evident.


While doing the same-- it's hypocrisy in it's finest form. You know full well, that the Hebrew says elohim, not "God" and not 'Theos" ( greek term) and not Yahweh (a specific elohim who is introduced in Chapter 2 of Genesis).

But carry on..... It's mildly entertaining to watch you spin.

 

[Matthias]

No.... you are obviously calling someone out for not being able to see something you insist is plainly evident.

I asked why those who don’t see what I see in scripture don’t see what I see in scripture. The simple answer is that they don’t believe what I see is the truth.

While doing the same-- it's hypocrisy in it's finest form. You know full well, that the Hebrew says elohim, not "God" and not 'Theos" ( greek term) and not Yahweh (a specific elohim who is introduced in Chapter 2 of Genesis).

Elohim = theos.

The one elohim / theos of the Bible is Yahweh.

But carry on..... It's mildly entertaining to watch you spin.

 

[Mr E]

Elohim = theos.

The one elohim / theos of the Bible is Yahweh.

Boom! You got that much.

Yes-- elohim and theos are interchangeable terms. They are also completely generic.

Elohim and Yahweh are not. Yahweh is one specific elohim.

Maybe you can see this where the term "Theos" is used elsewhere in scripture, like in Acts 14, where it is referring not to Yahweh, but other theos....

“The gods have come down to us in human form!”

 

[marks]

How is it that people cannot see that John is writing in his prologue about Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth - by expressing what existed in his mind. He is alluding in the prologue of his Gospel to Genesis 1.

Well, for one thing, we are reading more accurate translations.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 This same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And that light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

(John 1:1-5, Geneva Bible, 1599)

Where the Geneva puts "IT", as though these were neuter gendered words, the actual are masculine gender, "He".


The Word is not "It", the Word is "He".

Later we will read that the Word became flesh, and tabernacled with us. Camped out with us. Your voice doesn't go camping, you do.

Much love!