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How long is the GREAT TRIBULATION?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by jeffweeder, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    (kriss;16082)
    Then you do not understand the parable of the fig tree. Or Rev. This reasoning is not supported by scripture but is a conclusion of men who do not understand what Gods plan is or what his word says. I hope you will learn here and come to see this. God Bless
    However you question on the length of a generation... is important for this biblical marker -- the establishment of the State of Israel... in 1948... the Word of God (WOG) because that is clearly relevant to this day and age...Why so significant? Because that GENERATION is the LAST Generation before Christ returns... So count 70 years from 1948...58,68,78,88,98...2008...is 60 years... So therefore we can actually count... on two-hands ...the number of years before Jesus actually returns to begin His 1000 year reign... The Great Tribulation is "forty and two months"...or 3-1/2 years...the appearance of the two witnesses in Jerusalem can't be far away either. :cool:
     
  2. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    (BoranJarami;15990)
    I am also one who does not see the tribulation as limited to seven years. I believe it started with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 and continues even to today. When looking at these signs and what we see today, we need keep in mind that every generation since the time of Christ has claimed that their's was that last generation. It is also important to note that Israel doesn't yet have controle over Jerusalem. Even the temple mount is in the hands of gentiles. And this is important only if the country we today call Israel is realy the chosen Isreal of God. Just because it is made up of jews does not mean that they are of God. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Romans 9:6)The fact that the country, for the most part, is run but non-practiceing jews (aka Jews by ethnicity but not by faith) makes me wonder some times. Sure, they won a wonderous war in six day, but God isn't the only one mentioned in the Bible that could work wonders. hmmm... Just a thought. May God bless you and guide you.
    The destruction of the Temple in 70 AD marked the end of Israel ...that was not re-established again until 1948...now we've come full circle!:cool:
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You are Just repeating everything I already said the place we differ is you are not seeing where God has shortened the time of the 42months(3 1/2 years) to a five month period (Rev,9:5 /9:10) For the Elect sake the time of Tribulation is shortened to 5months which is equal to 150 days.5 mo.=150 Days150 days the flood of water was on the land (Gen. 7:24) 150 Days the flood of lies from Antichrist will be upon the land.42 months shortened to 5 months(150 days) The tribulation of Antichrist(Satan) PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE(A Parable God tells Us To Learn)------------------------------------------------Everyday its seems we hear or see somthing else about the "END TIMES".We watch to see if God's prophecy's are being played out on the world stage.God tells us that no one knows the hour or day of the return of Christ.However he tells us we should watch and know the season,just as we know when the leaves turn colors and begin to fall,that the seasons are going to change,God tells us to watch for the season of the "End Times"Matthew 24, Mark 13 ,Luke 21, all tell us of the signs of this season,there will be false prophets,wars,rumors of wars,and earthquakesbut these things have always been so how do we know when we are supposed to start watching for this particular season? When being asked of these things Jesus gave a parableLuke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable;Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;Luke29:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selvesthat summer is now nigh at hand.Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilledA parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say? It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents IsraelSo taking this into account the parable would now read:Behold Israel, and all the NationsWhen they come forth,yea shall know the season is at handSo likewise when you see these things come to pass,know that the kingdom of God is close at handI say unto you,This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilledNow that we know what the parable says lets inspect it futher. Behold Israel.Israel became a nation,for the first time since Christ's time on May 14,1948 (U.N ratified 1947)NationsThese are the nations that the bible says exsist in the end timesGenerationWhat Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation So we can now see that the Parable of the Fig Tree tells us that the generation that saw the 1948 formation of the state of Israel is the generation that will see the "End Time events and the return of Christ.A generation in the bible is 40 years,70 years,or 120 years.Although we can not completely rule out 120 year generation people in our day do not normally live to 120 years old so it would seem that 40 years or 70 years would be more likely however 40 years has already passed, so by process of elimination we are left with 70 year Generation. God does not say he will wait the full 70 years, only that the generation will not all pass away before the end comes.We are fast aproaching the 70th year May14, 2008 will complete 60 years of the 70 year generation.And the 70 years ends May 14,2018There is another important date that we are approaching that may shed more light on where we stand in the time line.East Jerusalem was part of the so called occupied territories untill the Six Day War of June 5,1967. When Israel finally took position of all of Jerusalam.Which completed the current day state of Israel.In June 2007 Israel will celebrate the 40 year aniversery of the possession of Jerusalam.Forty(40) is an important number in Gods word and often signifies completeness or fullness of time.krissThis is my simple version if you want to read a little more eloquent version Denver has posted one.at this linkhttp://www.christianityboard.com/par...0815#post10815
     
  4. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    1st half of the Tribulation: This is the first three and one half years (42 months) that the first beast is in power upon the earth. This time was not shortened by Christ in Mat 24:22.2nd half of the Tribulation: This is the second half of the original seven years Tribulation, Christ stated that God shortened this time in Mat 24:22. it is differentiated from the first 42 months in that this time is referred to, not as 42 months, nor 1260 days, nor as 3½ years (which times all refer to the, but only as: "Time, times, and half." (1 + 2 + ½ = 3½ - but 3½ of what? It is not stated). In Rev 9:10-11 we have some indication that the shortened time was to be five literal months. It is not altogether clear whether this five months is added to the 42 months of the first half of the Tribulation, thus making the entire Tribulation now to be 53 months after Christ shortened Daniel's prophecy, or, if it runs concurrent with the last five months of the 42 months of the first beast, so that after the 48th month the 'beasts' operate together, with both their terminus (end) at 42 months.
     
  5. Daniel Israel

    Daniel Israel New Member

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    Actually The Great Tribulation is only 5 months. (150 days)JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Scripture Please??
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Daniel Israel;25839)
    (thesuperjag;22970)
    Actually The Great Tribulation is only 5 months. (150 days)JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Scripture Please??I don't know the original time amount that Satan is coming back... but...Matthew 24:21-22 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit....Revelation 9:5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  7. Daniel Israel

    Daniel Israel New Member

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    I don't know the original time amount that Satan is coming back... but...Matthew 24:21-22 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit....Revelation 9:5 - And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
    Hmmm, fair enough.The time known as the Great Tribulation in the bible has a span of three and a half years. If you skip down to verse 12 of the very scripture that you quoted(Revelation 9:5) it reads: "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter." Understand from this verse that, you are reading about the fifth of seven trumpets symbolizing plagues being sounded by seven angels. To get the context of what my point is, go back to Revelation 8:13 "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!" Verse 12 confirms that the fourth angel had already sounded, "Woe, woe, woe" points to angels 5,6, and 7. This is proof positive that the tribulation is more than 5 months, because there are yet two more plagues of God yet to come! Between the 6th & 7th woes in the 11th chapter, there is an account of two witnesses preaching in the spirit of Moses and Aaron against the Abomination Of Desolation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. At Revelation 11:2 the timeline of the rule of the Abomination Of Desolation, which is the Great Tribulation is given: "Forty and Two months"In Matthew 24:15 Jesus said that this Abomination was spoken of by the prophet Daniel, who also gives the same Great Tribulation timeline of three and a half years at Daniel 7:25 - "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." Under two or three witnesses is a fact established in the bible(Hebrews 10:28). Both of these two accounts are as solid as you can get out of the bible. They were two separate accounts of prophecy given by Jesus to Daniel and John. Last, but not least in Revelation 19:10 it reads: "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The three and a half years Tribulation is part of the testimony of Jesus himself.I pray in the name of Jesus Christ that your understanding be edified brother!
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The tribulation period is 5 Months I can show this in numerous ways but I think where we are missing the connection is the trumept is just the thing that starts the action the trumpets and vials are in order the seals are not The trumpets are sounded to alert the people on the earth that a certain event, or happening is about to start.This is Satan tribulation the hour(5months) of temptation. Temptation by who Satan and his tribulation starts when he is kicked out of Heaven to earth.As we study the eighth chapter of the book of Revelation, remember that the seals are not in chronological order as to time like the trumps and the vials. They are for a teaching tool to forewarn us of what is to come. And to let us know for sure that Satan, the "Anti-Christ" appears on the scene before the real Christ. Satan will try to deceive as many as he can coming in peace with many deceptions and lies. Do not be deceived! 1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour(2 1/2 months). This is when the last seal was opened. We are speaking here of the first half of the hour (5 months)of temptation. The six seal speaks of the one who comes in the first seal. This is to let us know when the others come to past and help us understand the first six seals. Christ foretells us all things, just as He did in Mark 13:23-31 "the parable of the fig tree." Again the four winds are mentioned just before this time to let us know when the time is and what we are talking about. It also speaks of the "generation of the fig tree" or "last generation" which is spoken of in Jeremiah 24, when Israel would become a nation again. The house of Judah and the house of Benjamin formed a nation Jerusalem. This happened in the year of our Lord 1948. 2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. The word trumpets here means "action" or to "charge" just as the angels were ready for.
     
  9. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    The destruction of the Temple in 70 AD marked the end of Israel ...that was not re-established again until 1948...now we've come full circle!
    Again I state my doubts that the current state of Israel is the real Israel.
    And this is important only if the country we today call Israel is realy the chosen Isreal of God. Just because it is made up of jews does not mean that they are of God."Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"(Romans 9:6)The fact that the country, for the most part, is run but non-practiceing jews (aka Jews by ethnicity but not by faith) makes me wonder some times. Sure, they won a wonderous war in six day, but God isn't the only one mentioned in the Bible that could work wonders. hmmm... Just a thought.
    Unless it can be shown otherwise, I will continue to doubt this and I will continue to doubt the dates or time-frames devised from the 1948 date for the coming of the Christ.P.S. sorry for the length of time in posting. I've had my head on other matters.
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well then you doubt scripture God told us we were to know the season and he gave us a parable of the fig tree to tell us about it.But you are somewhat correct about The Jews of todays Israel they are just the tribe of Judah (with some Levites and Benjamites) The christain nations are the Ten lost tribes
     
  11. bytheway

    bytheway New Member

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    Don't know about you, but I've been in a great tribulation for years! The end of our salvation is the saving of our souls. The tribulation (destruction) starts after we no longer are waddling about in wet diapers. Maturity is the end result, ressurection to God's kind of life. On earth as it is in Heaven. Bless ya, btw-
     
  12. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    Well then you doubt scripture God told us we were to know the season and he gave us a parable of the fig tree to tell us about it.But you are somewhat correct about The Jews of todays Israel they are just the tribe of Judah (with some Levites and Benjamites) The christain nations are the Ten lost tribes
    I do not doubt any scripture. I know this parable and have studied it, but I cannot come to the same conclusions from it. The only connection between the parable of the fig tree and Israel was the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. If I am wrong, then I am open for correction.
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The parable has nothing to do with the temple of 70 A.D.it promises that the generation that sees this will not pass away before Christ returns if you can show me that christ returned after the temple was destroyed go ahead
     
  14. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Parable of the Fig Tree --------------------------------------------------------------------------------PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE(A Parable God tells Us To Learn)------------------------------------------------Everyday its seems we hear or see somthing else about the "END TIMES".We watch to see if God's prophecy's are being played out on the world stage.God tells us that no one knows the hour or day of the return of Christ.However he tells us we should watch and know the season,just as we know when the leaves turn colors and begin to fall,that the seasons are going to change,God tells us to watch for the season of the "End Times"Matthew 24, Mark 13 ,Luke 21, all tell us of the signs of this season,there will be false prophets,wars,rumors of wars,and earthquakesbut these things have always been so how do we know when we are supposed to start watching for this particular season? When being asked of these things Jesus gave a parableLuke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable;Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;Luke29:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selvesthat summer is now nigh at hand.Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilledA parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say? It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents IsraelSo taking this into account the parable would now read:Behold Israel, and all the NationsWhen they come forth,yea shall know the season is at handSo likewise when you see these things come to pass,know that the kingdom of God is close at handI say unto you,This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilledNow that we know what the parable says lets inspect it futher. Behold Israel.Israel became a nation,for the first time since Christ's time on May 14,1948 (U.N ratified 1947)NationsThese are the nations that the bible says exsist in the end timesGenerationWhat Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation So we can now see that the Parable of the Fig Tree tells us that the generation that saw the 1948 formation of the state of Israel is the generation that will see the "End Time events and the return of Christ.A generation in the bible is 40 years,70 years,or 120 years.Although we can not completely rule out 120 year generation people in our day do not normally live to 120 years old so it would seem that 40 years or 70 years would be more likely however 40 years has already passed, so by process of elimination we are left with 70 year Generation. God does not say he will wait the full 70 years, only that the generation will not all pass away before the end comes.We are fast aproaching the 70th year May14, 2008 will complete 60 years of the 70 year generation.And the 70 years ends May 14,2018There is another important date that we are approaching that may shed more light on where we stand in the time line.East Jerusalem was part of the so called occupied territories untill the Six Day War of June 5,1967. When Israel finally took position of all of Jerusalam.Which completed the current day state of Israel.In June 2007 Israel will celebrate the 40 year aniversery of the possession of Jerusalam.Forty(40) is an important number in Gods word and often signifies completeness or fullness of time.kriss__________________The parable is about restoration new groth (in season)what season the season that the Nation of the fig tree is restored this not about destruction Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.if you think this is talking about the temple destructionthen the next verse means that the Entire kingdom of God is fulfilled at the end of that generationbut the church had just started it was not fulfilled and wont be until Rev when God says it is doneyour idea makes not sense and does not align Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilled
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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  16. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    A parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say?
    A parable is nothing like a riddle, there is nothing hidden in a parable. Just look at the parables that Jesus tells, he hides nothing in them for us to figure out. They are all explained and clear.
    It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents Israel”
    The thoughts of man are far from perfect. Where does God say that this is the case? Where do these “biblical scholars” draw their conclusions from?Luke 21:29-31(29) And He spoke a parable to them: You see the fig tree and all the trees.(30) Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it, you will know from yourselves that now the summer is near.(31) So also when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.When a tree sprouts it’s leaves, we know that summer will come. This is the entire point of this parable. Some things are going to happen before the fulfillment of the kingdom. When we see these things happen we will know that the kingdom is near. So what are these things? Verse 31 tells us that we will see things happening and will know that the end draws near. There is another verse that talks about “these things.”“But these things beginning to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Luke 21:28)Sound familiar? It should since it holds nearly the same message as verse 31. So what are “these things“ that this verse is talking about? They are the events described by Jesus to his disciples in Luke 21:6-28. When we see these things happening, we know that the kingdom is near. This is the meaning of the fig tree.
    What Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation
    I must disagree. Nowhere in these verses does it say that Israel becoming a nation again is a sign before the end. In fact, the closest thing to this is: “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) It seems to me that the times of the gentiles will not be fulfilled until the kingdom of God comes, not before. If this were a sign of the fig tree, then it would have to come before.But lets just say for a moment that it is a sign. I have yet to see any reason to believe that the current state that we call Israel is in fact the biblical Israel. I point back to my previous arguments.
     
  17. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Taken from the link I gave you above Jeremiah 24:5-7: Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans, for their good. For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down, and I will plant them, and not pluck them up. And I will give them an heart to know me, that "I AM" the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. Here, in these verses, God likens the captive exiles of Israel to the those good figs in the basket. The Jewish remnant which was still left in Jerusalem, God likens to the bad, or evil figs retained in the second basket. I should point out that Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon rose up against Israel and took captive all the children of Israel except those princes who were left as mere puppet rulers in the holy city. The year of Israel's defeat by Babylon was 606 B.C. Then nineteen years later in 587 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar returned back to Jerusalem and destroyed the city and executed King Zedekiah. Remember those dates and the differential of the years as you read further in this newsletter. I have a point that I want to make clear later concerning that time interval. Anyway, God promised through Jeremiah that he would return Israel once again into the land, and afterwards that Israel shall no more be uprooted from the promised land; and that He would write his law in their hearts. This promised of course dream has never been fulfilled during the long history of Israel. It is still a future eventuality. But the fact has been historically established that Israel has forever become prophetically typecast, in a figurative sense, as a fig tree.If you can not wrap your mind around the fact that for some 2000 years Jerusalem/Isreal was nothing but a broken down desert settlement till 1948 when it became a nation and the desert bloomed and it became a modern cityand cant see Gods hand at work telling us we need know the season and the parable being the only one he told us to learn Then my friend you have much to learn
     
  18. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    I just looked over the website that you gave. I must say that they make an interesting argument from Jeremiah 24.
    But the fact has been historically established that Israel has forever become prophetically typecast, in a figurative sense, as a fig tree.
    If this is true, then why does God refer to another nation as a fig tree? In Nahum 3:12 God does just that. Does this mean that Assyria is like Israel? In Jeremiah, Israel is described in terms of figs and even a fig tree, but that doesn't mean that every time a fig tree is mentioned it is a reference to Israel.Jesus' use of a fig tree can be explained another way. There was one right next to him while he was speaking. "And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;" (Luke 21:29)He was telling them to look at something. Appearently there was one close at hand.When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. (Luke 21:30)His use of the present tense and "now" when describing the tree indicates that they were looking at one and it was currently putting out new leaves.Does this prove that he wasn't using the fig tree to represent Israel? No, but it does show that there is another possibility. Take into account the simularity between Luke 21:28 and Luke 21:31 and you do have proof that the new leaves of the fig tree stood for a series of events described by Jesus (as I discussed above). And looking at Luke 21:24 in the context of the discourse, we have reason to believe that the re-founding of Israel is not one of these events (also discussed above).And again, even if the fig tree was a reference to Israel, why should we think that what we now call "Israel" is in fact the biblical Israel? Please show me this.
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Like I said if you are so blinded you can not see that for the first time in 2000 years there is a Nation where there was a few camels and scattered arabsto the modern Nation of Israel I dont know what to tell you the desert blooms just as prophesized God performed this miracle right in front of our eyes and still you doubtwhat do you wanna see
     
  20. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    Like I said if you are so blinded you can not see that for the first time in 2000 years there is a Nation where there was a few camels and scattered arabsto the modern Nation of Israel I dont know what to tell you the desert blooms just as prophesized God performed this miracle right in front of our eyes and still you doubtwhat do you wanna see
    There have been nations in the region in the past 2000 years and the only thing I see blossoming in the middle east now is blood from the desert sands. It was Paul who wrote, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Romans 9:6) It would do us good to closely consider his words instead of instantly believing anyone that claims to be Israel. Yes, there is a nation that is called Israel. Yes, there has not been a country called this for nearly 2000 years. Does this mean that they are the real Israel? By this token, if Iran changed it's name to Kingdom of God we must proclaim the Christ returned. I have considered all arguments and and views presented to me. As best I can, I have judged them by their merit. In conclusion I cannot agree with you. This is not what a blind man does.may God bless you and guide you in all things.
     
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