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How long is the GREAT TRIBULATION?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by jeffweeder, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    LUKE 21"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. MATT 24"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. -----------------It seems evident here, that matt and luke are communicating the same thing ; the same discourse of the Lord.According to luke the GT continues through from the Jews dispersion, AD 70> until the times of the gentiles are fullfilled. History would certainly suggest that this was the case for them.That makes the GT longer than 7 years.Rev implies that the GT was longer than what a lot of people think
    9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" 14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    How long have people been washing in the precious blood?And if the GT went for 7 years only, why cant we count the number who came out of it?You would think that you could, but there's no way you could if the tribulation is the whole church age./ dispersion of Judah and trampling of Jerusalem....During the times of the gentiles , the Gospel is being preached to the whole world...to us and too Israel...( and then the end would come.)How do you understand "AND JERUSALEM WILL BE TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT BY THE GENTILES, UNTIL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES ARE FULFILLED ? keeping in mind the context of the Jews being led away to all nations.Joel 3 talks about a fortune reversal-( time of the jews) for Judah and JerusalemHave we witnessed these things?We know that all nations are going to gather for one final trample, we KNOW SPIRITS ARE GOING OUT TO GATHER THE NATIONS ,.....Time is very short
    29 Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 32 "Truly I say to you, this generation[20][Or race ] will not pass away until all things take place. 33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
    When you see the times of the gentiles end over Jerusalem, this Generation will not pass away until all things take place.Have we seen it?Did we see this in 1967?I hope its right because if a generation is 40 years that means he is due back very very soon---cutting the days short.[​IMG]hOW LONG IS A GENERATION?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well if I understand your post the time of gentiles has not ended yet. But I believe we are very close. We are the generation of the Fig tree. We Are The Generation Of The Fig TreePARABLE OF THE FIG TREE(A Parable God tells Us To Learn)------------------------------------------------Everyday its seems we hear or see somthing else about the "END TIMES".We watch to see if God's prophecy's are being played out on the world stage.God tells us that no one knows the hour or day of the return of Christ.However he tells us we should watch and know the season,just as we know when the leaves turn colors and begin to fall,that the seasons are going to change,God tells us to watch for the season of the "End Times"Matthew 24, Mark 13 ,Luke 21, all tell us of the signs of this season,there will be false prophets,wars,rumors of wars,and earthquakesbut these things have always been so how do we know when we are supposed to start watching for this particular season? When being asked of these things Jesus gave a parableLuke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable;Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;Luke29:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selvesthat summer is now nigh at hand.Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilledA parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say? It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents IsraelSo taking this into account the parable would now read:Behold Israel, and all the NationsWhen they come forth,yea shall know the season is at handSo likewise when you see these things come to pass,know that the kingdom of God is close at handI say unto you,This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilledNow that we know what the parable says lets inspect it futher. Behold Israel.Israel became a nation,for the first time since Christ's time on May 14,1948 (U.N ratified 1947)NationsThese are the nations that the bible says exsist in the end timesGenerationWhat Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation So we can now see that the Parable of the Fig Tree tells us that the generation that saw the 1948 formation of the state of Israel is the generation that will see the "End Time events and the return of Christ.A generation in the bible is 40 years,70 years,or 120 years.Although we can not completely rule out 120 year generation people in our day do not normally live to 120 years old so it would seem that 40 years or 70 years would be more likely however 40 years has already passed, so by process of elimination we are left with 70 year Generation. God does not say he will wait the full 70 years, only that the generation will not all pass away before the end comes.We are fast aproaching the 70th year May14, 2008 will complete 60 years of the 70 year generation.And the 70 years ends May 14,2018There is another important date that we are approaching that may shed more light on where we stand in the time line.East Jerusalem was part of the so called occupied territories untill the Six Day War of June 5,1967. When Israel finally took position of all of Jerusalam.Which completed the current day state of Israel.In June 2007 Israel will celebrate the 40 year aniversery of the possession of Jerusalam.Forty(40) is an important number in Gods word and often signifies completeness or fullness of time.krissThis is my simple version if you want to read a little more eloquent version Denver has posted one.at this linkhttp://www.christianityboard.com/parable-f...10815#post10815
     
  3. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder New Member

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    Hey, good post Kriss.According to the luke discourse, i see Jerusalem as being the sign, not just Israel.Like the times of gentiles over Jerusalem (Judah) not necessarily Israel in 1948 but more like What happened in 1967 in Jerusalem.Doesnt matter, we have never been this close, and the writing is in bold print on the wall. They are back there.I remember Jesus saying something like--I have come in my fathers name and you reject me, but someone will come to you in his own name and him you will recieve.This is the lie, this is the man of sin.No wonder they mourn when they see the true messiah coming in the clouds , who will destroy him by the brightness of his coming.Never the less, today is the day of salvation, and all we can do is pray and preach Jesus as the true messiah to them.---and then the end will come.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I do agree with the fact that 1967 was a significant marker as I posted the last Generation started in 1948, It is no accident that Jerusalem wasnt completely claimed untill "67" God gave us a marker as to where we were in prophcey. As 40 years (a gen.) has passed for Jerusalamand we will soon enter 60 years for Israel (may 2008) a Gen for Israel would be 70 years. But God never says he wait till the end of that Generation. Only that he will come before the end of that generation. So if he comes anyday all prophecy of the Parable of the fig tree Was fulfilled with the 40th anversary of Jerusalem.Another words we wittnessed the fulfillment of a Parable in June this year so his coming can not be far off.
     
  5. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    I am also one who does not see the tribulation as limited to seven years. I believe it started with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 and continues even to today. When looking at these signs and what we see today, we need keep in mind that every generation since the time of Christ has claimed that their's was that last generation. It is also important to note that Israel doesn't yet have controle over Jerusalem. Even the temple mount is in the hands of gentiles. And this is important only if the country we today call Israel is realy the chosen Isreal of God. Just because it is made up of jews does not mean that they are of God. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Romans 9:6)The fact that the country, for the most part, is run but non-practiceing jews (aka Jews by ethnicity but not by faith) makes me wonder some times. Sure, they won a wonderous war in six day, but God isn't the only one mentioned in the Bible that could work wonders. hmmm... Just a thought. May God bless you and guide you.
     
  6. ÐøÞÞlégäñgèr

    ÐøÞÞlégäñgèr New Member

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    42 months for Satan and his foes. Months are always considered times by which evil things are counted and then 1260 days for God's people. Days are always counted as times appointed by God. The Court will always be the gentiles (Muslims) until the Millenium starts.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (BoranJarami;15990)
    I am also one who does not see the tribulation as limited to seven years. I believe it started with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 and continues even to today. When looking at these signs and what we see today, we need keep in mind that every generation since the time of Christ has claimed that their's was that last generation. It is also important to note that Israel doesn't yet have controle over Jerusalem. Even the temple mount is in the hands of gentiles. And this is important only if the country we today call Israel is realy the chosen Isreal of God. Just because it is made up of jews does not mean that they are of God. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (Romans 9:6)The fact that the country, for the most part, is run but non-practiceing jews (aka Jews by ethnicity but not by faith) makes me wonder some times. Sure, they won a wonderous war in six day, but God isn't the only one mentioned in the Bible that could work wonders. hmmm... Just a thought. May God bless you and guide you.
    Then you do not understand the parable of the fig tree. Or Rev. This reasoning is not supported by scripture but is a conclusion of men who do not understand what Gods plan is or what his word says. I hope you will learn here and come to see this. God Bless
     
  8. BoranJarami

    BoranJarami New Member

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    I understand the parable of the fig tree and have studied Revelation. From my studies I have come to different conclusions then you. There is no point in simply dismissing a person's understanding of the scriptures as not scriptural without demonstrating why. From what information you have provided in this answer I could just as easily claim that your understandings are "not supported by scripture but is a conclusion of men who do not understand what Gods plan is or what his word says."Perhaps you can show me where I am wrong on this issue? It is always my desire to learn where I am wrong so that I can know the truth. I hope that we will both learn more of God's great and eternal plan and that we both come to understand the truth, whatever the truth is.May God bless you and guide you.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Sorry Boran I did not intend to be rude. Some days I just not thinking I was refering to your views of the tribulation starting in 70 A.D. I only mean there is no scripture I know of that supports this view. However it did end the time of the Jews. It is now the time of the gentiles.The final Generation(of the fig tree) did not start untill 1948 With the restoration of the Jewish State. As for the tribulation there are two. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, After what tribulation? the first tribulation. Satans tribulation. (the second tribulation is Christs return. It is a tribulation to those who followed Antichrist.)When does Satan tribulation begin ? When he gets here at the 6th trump,6th seal,6th vialHow long is Satans tribultion 5 months God has shortened the last 3 1/2 years(42 months,1260 days) of the seven years to 5 monthsRevelation 9:5 They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man.Rev.9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. Rev9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. These are names for SatanRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. God has shortened the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation to a FIVE Month period Why for the Elects sakeMatthew 24:22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.Mark 13:20If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened it.
     
  10. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Yeah BoranJarami. Don't come into conclusions like that. Just give all of your attention the the NOW. God wants us to live one day at a time. Don't worry too much about the future, it's in God's hands. What He wants you to do is get to know Him, and get others to know Him. That's the greatest thing you can do to show your affection towards God.
     
  11. milendgame

    milendgame New Member

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    The great tribulation is in theory only up to 3 1/2 yrs.There are many links to a 3 1/2 yr period,as opposed to 7 yrs.Many believe that 69 of the 70 wks have been fulfilled and we have a wk (7 yrs) left,but Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 yrs of that 7 yr period in daniel 9:27.See rev.11:2 and 3,rev.12:6 and 14 amongst maybe some other places.Obviously the days are cut short too,and some of the above references might not run exactly thru the last 3 1/2 yrs,but I cannot see any relevant reference to a 7 yr period.Also,we are likely to have heavy trouble b4 the beast comes on the scene for his 42 month rule,in the guise of a ww3 scenario and the trouble that will come from it,like financial collapse,lack of food,general chaos and so forth.Cannabilism might also become popular during this time,I cant remember where but I believe jeremiah 50 or 51 mentions this
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The actual tribulation the time Antichrist(Satan) is on earth is shortened to 5 months period(150 days). As I quoted in post #9 it is the same lenghth of a 5 month period that Heroda type of Antichrist held Jerusalem captive it is also the same as the flood of Noah was upon the earth 5 months = 150 days Satans prophecys are always given in months of the moon. The flood of Noah's days was of Water the flood of the tribulation is of Satan's (antichrist's) lies. We are also told of this in the facts concerning the Locust Army and the scorpian God uses things of nature as picture's to us because they never change (see post #12) at following linkhttp://www.christianityboard.com/one-hour-...ge-t3801p2.html
     
  13. guysmith

    guysmith New Member

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    jeffweederYou stated: why cant we count the number who came out of it?You would think that you could, but there's no way you could if the tribulation is the whole church age./ dispersion of Judah and trampling of Jerusalem....My response: The count is for "the ones who come out of the great tribulation" not the entire church age. Concerning the number, it is difficult for us to count but not God (who knows how many hairs we have on our heads). And God has provided us with a number (576,000) which is (somewhat) impossible (without the aid of a computer) for one person to count.You stated: Joel 3 talks about a fortune reversal-( time of the jews) for Judah and JerusalemHave we witnessed these things?My response: No. Daniel's vision states that there is only 70 sevens of prophecy till the coming of Christ. If you believe that the first 69 Seven were fulfilled with Christ's sacrice on the cross then you tend to have to believe that seven years remain till his advent.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
     
  14. Daniel Israel

    Daniel Israel New Member

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    The great tribulation will last ONLY 3 1/2 years.
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Actually The Great Tribulation is only 5 months. (150 days)JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  16. Mighty Bear

    Mighty Bear New Member

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    (kriss;13473)
    Well if I understand your post the time of gentiles has not ended yet. But I believe we are very close. We are the generation of the Fig tree. We Are The Generation Of The Fig TreePARABLE OF THE FIG TREE(A Parable God tells Us To Learn)------------------------------------------------Everyday its seems we hear or see somthing else about the "END TIMES".We watch to see if God's prophecy's are being played out on the world stage.God tells us that no one knows the hour or day of the return of Christ.However he tells us we should watch and know the season,just as we know when the leaves turn colors and begin to fall,that the seasons are going to change,God tells us to watch for the season of the "End Times"Matthew 24, Mark 13 ,Luke 21, all tell us of the signs of this season,there will be false prophets,wars,rumors of wars,and earthquakesbut these things have always been so how do we know when we are supposed to start watching for this particular season? When being asked of these things Jesus gave a parableLuke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable;Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;Luke29:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selvesthat summer is now nigh at hand.Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilledA parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say? It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents IsraelSo taking this into account the parable would now read:Behold Israel, and all the NationsWhen they come forth,yea shall know the season is at handSo likewise when you see these things come to pass,know that the kingdom of God is close at handI say unto you,This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilledNow that we know what the parable says lets inspect it futher. Behold Israel.Israel became a nation,for the first time since Christ's time on May 14,1948 (U.N ratified 1947)NationsThese are the nations that the bible says exsist in the end timesGenerationWhat Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation So we can now see that the Parable of the Fig Tree tells us that the generation that saw the 1948 formation of the state of Israel is the generation that will see the "End Time events and the return of Christ.A generation in the bible is 40 years,70 years,or 120 years.Although we can not completely rule out 120 year generation people in our day do not normally live to 120 years old so it would seem that 40 years or 70 years would be more likely however 40 years has already passed, so by process of elimination we are left with 70 year Generation. God does not say he will wait the full 70 years, only that the generation will not all pass away before the end comes.We are fast aproaching the 70th year May14, 2008 will complete 60 years of the 70 year generation.And the 70 years ends May 14,2018There is another important date that we are approaching that may shed more light on where we stand in the time line.East Jerusalem was part of the so called occupied territories untill the Six Day War of June 5,1967. When Israel finally took position of all of Jerusalam.Which completed the current day state of Israel.In June 2007 Israel will celebrate the 40 year aniversery of the possession of Jerusalam.Forty(40) is an important number in Gods word and often signifies completeness or fullness of time.krissThis is my simple version if you want to read a little more eloquent version Denver has posted one.at this linkhttp://www.christianityboard.com/parable-f...10815#post10815
    I think we are here,"He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:24)
     
  17. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    When you see the times of the gentiles end over Jerusalem, this Generation will not pass away until all things take place.Have we seen it?Did we see this in 1967?I hope its right because if a generation is 40 years that means he is due back very very soon---cutting the days short.[​IMG]hOW LONG IS A GENERATION?1967 - War in Israel was NOT a biblical marker... However you question on the length of a generation... is important for this biblical marker -- the establishment of the State of Israel... in 1948... the Word of God (WOG) because that is clearly relevant to this day and age...Why so significant? Because that GENERATION is the LAST Generation before Christ returns... So count 70 years from 1948...58,68,78,88,98...2008...is 60 years... So therefore we can actually count... on two-hands ...the number of years before Jesus actually returns to begin His 1000 year reign... The Great Tribulation is "forty and two months"...or 3-1/2 years...the appearance of the two witnesses in Jerusalem can't be far away either. :cool:
     
  18. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    However you question on the length of a generation... is important for this biblical marker -- the establishment of the State of Israel... in 1948... the Word of God (WOG) because that is clearly relevant to this day and age...Why so significant? Because that GENERATION is the LAST Generation before Christ returns... So count 70 years from 1948...58,68,78,88,98...2008...is 60 years... So therefore we can actually count... on two-hands ...the number of years before Jesus actually returns to begin His 1000 year reign... The Great Tribulation is "forty and two months"...or 3-1/2 years...the appearance of the two witnesses in Jerusalem can't be far away either. ...not 120 ...or 40...or as Benny Hinn says 100 years... A Biblical Generation is 70 years...and we are in the LAST GENERATION :cool:
     
  19. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    (Mighty Bear;22974)
    I think we are here,"He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:24)
    An Biblical Generation is 70 years... and we are in the last one since the budding of the Fig Tree (Israel) in 1948...:cool:
     
  20. StElsewhere

    StElsewhere New Member

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    (jeffweeder;13474)
    Hey, good post Kriss.According to the luke discourse, i see Jerusalem as being the sign, not just Israel.Like the times of gentiles over Jerusalem (Judah) not necessarily Israel in 1948 but more like What happened in 1967 in Jerusalem.Doesnt matter, we have never been this close, and the writing is in bold print on the wall. They are back there.I remember Jesus saying something like--I have come in my fathers name and you reject me, but someone will come to you in his own name and him you will recieve.This is the lie, this is the man of sin.No wonder they mourn when they see the true messiah coming in the clouds , who will destroy him by the brightness of his coming.Never the less, today is the day of salvation, and all we can do is pray and preach Jesus as the true messiah to them.---and then the end will come.
    The 1967 War was not a biblical marker of time... it was just an event in time...:cool:
     
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