How many ages are there?

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Gottservant

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Jesus' final prayer, in John, is about the faith of the respective Ages.

There are 21 messengers of the faith, each with their corresponding Age.

Jesus' final prayer, is about 21 verses long - that's how it correlates.
 

Timtofly

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LOL. I get my understanding from what Jesus Himself taught about this age and the age to come, so, once again, you have no idea of what you're talking about.
Literally, you don't. You take what Jesus said and misapply it to your interpretation of other Scriptures, which you also do not fully interpret, but cherry pick ideal words. That is what an idealist does who claims much of Scripture is just symbolism, and they have figured out an idealistic theology, and those with a literal view are scoffed at.

Jesus provided the last day resurrection, because the Cross was a new age that came. There was a resurrection at the Cross, indicating the OT economy was done away with for good. God would no longer meet once a year in the Holy of Holies through a single priest. Those OT redeemed were resurrected out of the valley of the shadow of death, and physically entered Paradise. That was a separation of ages, whether you accept it or not. All you claim is Satan was bound up, which he wasn't, but that is an idealistic spin on the difference between the OT age and the NT age, without a definite age change. You can ignore a literal reality for a fake idealistic opinion.

You fail to see God's Word indicating more than your single age, just like those scoffers in 2 Peter 3, who claimed only one age, and no changes since the beginning. That is why Peter pointed out the world before the Flood, and the world after the Flood. Or the age before the Flood, and the age after the Flood. It was the same world, yet an age indicates a drastic change in the relationship between God and humans. There were many humans who were sons of God living on earth. All those who sinned, God destroyed.
Now in the age after the Flood people needed to repent, because all were born sinners, and they had to work at being righteous like Job and Abraham. But even all that work of righteous, in the OT was just viewed as filthy rags, because after the Cross, we are clothed in God's righteousness.

People may make up their own theological ages, but to ignore those pointed out in Scripture, is either willfully being ignorant, or just a wrong theological position one has taken at odds with another wrong theological position. Like the Pharisees arguing with the Sadducees over the point of the resurrection.

God still used Paul, even though at times he seemed proud to be a Pharisee. Notice who even asked Jesus the question, those who did not accept a resurrection at all.

"Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife."

"And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

You interpret Jesus' answer as a brand new doctrine introduced by Jesus that there is only 2 ages. That was not even the question. It was about a resurrection, not two different ages. But you want to take the underlying implication, that this world here below is an age, and the heavenly realm is a different age. You fail to see that both are happening concurrently at the same time. Heaven is not waiting to be created in the future. Paradise was already a reality, it just could not be entered into until after the Cross.

Jesus placed the emphasis on a resurrection to get to the heavenly world, and leave the earthly one behind. The answer was directed at the Sadducees, who obviously thought like some here, it would be a spiritual age where the flesh no longer existed at all. So if you interpret it like you do, you are preaching the theology of the Sadducees, who view the future the same way you do.

While the Pharisees taught a bodily physical resurrection back to earth, they were not as wrong as the Sadducees. Since Paul never condemned the Pharisees on their position of the resurrection, but used it to his advantage, then Paul did not think they were that unsound in doctrine. I keep pointing out that Paul differed from them, that the resurrection had already occurred, but they were not to worry, because all in Christ would be changed. But you all seem to miss the subtlety of Paul's writings and stick with the view of the Sadducees. I know you are Sadducees, because you keep telling posters they are Pharisees, and it is the same argument of the resurrection they had in the first century.

How can you miss Luke's footnote?

"Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

God was always the God of the living. After the Cross, those living were doing so in physical bodies in Paradise. They would never die again ever. They do not procreate, nor have personal relationships, as the marrying and being given in marriage implies. It is not Jesus, that makes the point about the dead being raised. This could have been before Lazarus, though we are not told. Luke is pointing out after the Cross, the dead had been raised. But I am sure this interpretation, puts your interpretation at odds with Scripture, even though you will stick with your own opinions and theology. Even if you claim Jesus said that the dead were raised, you have to prove who and what dead. You have to prove how and why. I would just go with Scripture and Matthew tells us the OT were resurrected at the Cross. Paul tells us those in Abraham's bosom were able to ascend out of Abraham's bosom and into Paradise, that heavenly city.

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. ) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

This age change from OT to NT allowed a physical resurrection into Paradise, and at the same time opened the ability of all the redeemed on earth to be gifted with power from the Holy Spirit. Amil seem to miss that point in:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits."

The firstfruits were all the OT redeemed, they were the first in the order of being made alive. You deny this resurrection, and call it a different resurrection, that may be ideal, but not reality. The second birth is being born into God's spiritual family, and does take us out of death into life, and is ongoing, just like the physical resurrection is ongoing evey time the soul leaves Adam's flesh for God's permanent incorruptible physical body. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

The second birth is not the first resurrection. A birth indicates no previous existence. You were never in God's family, kicked out, and brought back. Adam was the one kicked out, not you. Now you are made alive, a brand new existence by Christ, and after physical death given a first, physical resurrection. But the spiritual birth happens while you are physically alive. The first resurrection happens when you physically die. It does not matter how plausible idealistic theology can sound. You can even write songs about it for entertainment. Idealism cannot change reality. Idealism can just put a spin on reality that sounds nice.
 

Bobgf

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Anyway, at what point do you think "Abraham and his descendants will take possession of the land of Canaan"?
The whole of it, not for another 1000 years.
It would be hard to inherit the land of Canaan forever if it's all burned up, so you might want to rethink this.
I agree, it would be hard to inherit the land of Canaan forever if it's all burned up.
Jesus' final prayer, in John, is about the faith of the respective Ages.

There are 21 messengers of the faith, each with their corresponding Age.

Jesus' final prayer, is about 21 verses long - that's how it correlates.
I don't know what you are talking about, Gottservant.
Can you provide some scripture references please?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I agree, it would be hard to inherit the land of Canaan forever if it's all burned up.
Right. So, does a passage like 2 Peter 3:10-12 make you rethink your understanding of them inheriting the land of Canaan forever?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Literally, you don't.
What does that even mean? Jesus spoke of "this age" and "the age to come". He explained key differences between them in Luke 20:34-36. What other ages did He ever speak about?

You take what Jesus said and misapply it to your interpretation of other Scriptures, which you also do not fully interpret, but cherry pick ideal words.
This is nothing more than gibberish. You make statements like this without being able to back them up.

That is what an idealist does who claims much of Scripture is just symbolism, and they have figured out an idealistic theology, and those with a literal view are scoffed at.
As usual, you misrepresent my understanding of scripture. I would say that much of the book of Revelation is symbolism. Seems obvious to me. But, that doesn't mean I think the majority of all scripture is symbolism. And it's interesting that you said "just symbolism". You act as if symbolism is a bad thing. It's not. Otherwise, why is there so much of it in the book of Revelation? Symbolism is simply a representation of reality using symbols. What is wrong with that?

Jesus provided the last day resurrection, because the Cross was a new age that came.
The last day is yet future. That is the day that those who believe in Him will be resurrected as well as the day that those who don't believe in Him will be judged. It's foolish to try to claim that the last day has already come.

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

This has clearly not yet happened.

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

This also has clearly not yet happened.
 

Gottservant

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[...]

I don't know what you are talking about, Gottservant.
Can you provide some scripture references please?
John 17:1-26

Some of the verses overlap the numbers, that's why it comes out at 26 verses not 21.

Earth has a number of helpers, that's the point I am trying to make - Jesus was one, Jesus said the Holy Spirit was "another one", and we can infer from the Law, that Jesus was in favour of going the extra mile in this regard (that is, if there is "another one" there should be at least "a third one").

Try to build faith in the Holy Spirit as was promised, you don't need to focus on more than His "coming" at first - I am just saying God's plans are far greater than sending one helper.
 

Patrick1966

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That is the day that those who believe in Him will be resurrected as well as the day that those who don't believe in Him will be judged.

Aren't unbelievers in THIS age thrown immediately into the Lake of Fire?

If so, does it seem logical that Jesus would then physically resurrect their bodies to "judge" them and then throw them right back into the Lake of Fire?
 

Timtofly

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What does that even mean? Jesus spoke of "this age" and "the age to come". He explained key differences between them in Luke 20:34-36. What other ages did He ever speak about?

Not just age, but world. Not just time, but location.

Heaven and earth. That is what you are missing. You think it is time, but it is not just time. Those on earth marry. Those in Paradise do not.

This is nothing more than gibberish. You make statements like this without being able to back them up.

Your cherry picked Scripture interpretation is gibberish. It is not logical, even if plausible. Paradise is not a future reality. Jesus and Paul talked about it existing in the first century. It is gibberish to claim Jesus and Paul were lying and Paradise is still a long long way off. It has been 1993 years, and you think it is still some distant reality. You may feel safe, but you are not missing out on reality. You claim those currently enjoying Paradise, are not physically enjoying Paradise. You claim they have to wait until you say so in your interpretation of Scripture.

As usual, you misrepresent my understanding of scripture. I would say that much of the book of Revelation is symbolism. Seems obvious to me. But, that doesn't mean I think the majority of all scripture is symbolism. And it's interesting that you said "just symbolism". You act as if symbolism is a bad thing. It's not. Otherwise, why is there so much of it in the book of Revelation? Symbolism is simply a representation of reality using symbols. What is wrong with that?

You are stuck in your interpretation of symbolism, and it is just your imagination and mind filling in the blanks.

Many symbolic phrases in Scripture have a literal interpretation, that you blatantly call gibberish and nonsense. I have pointed them out, and that is your response, even in this Post.

The last day is yet future. That is the day that those who believe in Him will be resurrected as well as the day that those who don't believe in Him will be judged. It's foolish to try to claim that the last day has already come.

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

This has clearly not yet happened.

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

This also has clearly not yet happened.

Of course it did. When Jesus declared it is finished on the Cross that was the last day of sin and death, for the OT redeemed. Even you claim Daniel's 70 weeks were up. That was the last day in your eschatology. You just have the details all mixed up and what is correct, you call gibberish and nonsense.
 

ewq1938

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I think you're right.

I guess they're just dead in the grave until they're resurrected and judged.

Will believers be at the GWTJ?


No. I don't see any:


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is about the dead, the second resurrection, those not worthy of the first resurrection who come from the sea, death and hell. There are no dead believers because they are ALIVE before these verses. This is the resurrection of damnation not the resurrection of life.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 
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Patrick1966

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No. I don't see any:


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is about the dead, the second resurrection, those not worthy of the first resurrection who come from the sea, death and hell. There are no dead believers because they are ALIVE before these verses. This is the resurrection of damnation not the resurrection of life.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Thanks.
 

Bobgf

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Aren't unbelievers in THIS age thrown immediately into the Lake of Fire?

If so, does it seem logical that Jesus would then physically resurrect their bodies to "judge" them and then throw them right back into the Lake of Fire?
We're talking about the multitude of unsaved people, many of whom I believe will eventually be saved. If they're not saved in this life, then perhaps in the next life.

In this life, Jesus tells us that the majority of people will go by the way of destruction, and few will find the way leading to life.

Matt 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Does this mean that the majority of people will go to hell?

I don't think so. I think ultimately most of them will be saved.


Right now, the Lord is taking from the Gentiles a people for his name, ie the church.

Acts 15:14-17

14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.

15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up;

17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,


So the Lord is taking out a people for his name now,
so that when he returns with his holy ones,
the rest of mankind may seek the Lord.


Bob..
 
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VCO

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I would call it:

OLD TESTAMENT Age
CHURCH Age
TRIBULATION Age
1000 YEAR KINGDOM Age
ETERNAL STATE Age
 

MatthewG

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Just two,

The Mosaic Law Age - which continued until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
The Age of Fulfilment which we live in now today.
 
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GRACE ambassador

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I would call it:

OLD TESTAMENT Age
CHURCH Age
TRIBULATION Age
1000 YEAR KINGDOM Age
ETERNAL STATE Age
Of course there is the ( parenthetical ) age - ie:

Adamic to Israel age
OT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law age
NT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law age - [ postponed due to the 'fall of Israel' ]...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

( Dispensation of Grace, According To 'The Revelation Of The Mystery' ) Age
ending with God's Great GRACE Departure!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

...[ continuing ] NT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law 'Tribulation' age

Millennial Kingdom age

New Heavens / New Earth = Eternal Age

Amen.
 

Earburner

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How many ages are there?

My premise is that a new age occurs every time there comes about new heavens and a new earth. A new age involves significant changes to our solar system and to earth's geography.

My thinking is that there are five ages:

1) pre-Adamic age
2) pre-Noahic age
3) this present evil age
4) the Kingdom age
5) the Eternal age


1)The pre-Adamic Age

In the pre-Adamic age (ie before Adam sinned) man and the beasts lived together harmoniously. There was no rain, but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground (Gen 2:5-6) Four headwaters: Pishon, Gihon, Tigris, and Euphrates. It's all there in Genesis chapters one and two.



2) The pre-Noahic Age

After Adam sinned, we entered the pre-Noahic age. Again, there was no rain on the earth, until Noah entered the ark (Gen 7:4), and afterwards we saw the first rainbow. It's estimated this age lasted maybe 1500 years. Again, it's all there in Genesis chapters three through seven.



3) This Present Evil Age

Then, after the cataclysmic heaven and earth changing events of the Flood, we come to a new age Paul calls "this present evil age" (Galatians 1:4). It's estimated since the Flood this age is about 4500 years now, with some 1000 years more to go, for a total of 7000 years since Adam.

This present evil age will see the man of sin revealed (2Thes 2:8), causing great tribulation (Matt 24:21), which ends with the rebellion of Gog/Magog (Rev 20:7-9), in which God's fiery judgment will consume all the nation's wicked (Eze 39:6), leaving mortals as rare as fine gold (Isa 13:12)

Quote: Matt 24:21-22
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

I believe the 1000 year reign of Christ and his saints (Rev 20:4) will not be on earth but rather in the heavenly places vacated by Satan and his angles after the war in heaven (Rev 12:7-9)
The Kingdom of God begins in heaven, not on the earth (Rev 12:10).

Quote: Rev 12:10
Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Revelation's sixth seal (Rev 6:12-17) follows immediately after that great tribulation and will bring about significant changes to our heavens and to earth's geography as well, constituting the beginning of the Kingdom age (Matt 24:29-30).



4) The Kingdom Age

Quote: Rev 6:12-14
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

Quote: Matt 24:29-30 (abridged)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Kingdom age will last many thousands of years to accommodate God's sworn promise to give the land of Canaan to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to Israel, for a thousand generations (Psalm 105:8 and 1 Chronicles 16:15)

In the Kingdom age the wicked will die young, the wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox (Isa 65:17-25) This will be the Messianic Kingdom Age where Christ will rule with his twelve disciples (Matt 19:28)

Quote: Matthew 19:28
So, Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Quote: Acts 17:31
God has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.

IMO This age will end with the execution of Revelation's seventh seal with its seven trumpets and seven vials. All the unrepentant wicked who have ever lived will be judged then and those who still refuse to repent will be destroyed in the LOF.

Quote: Isa 24:21-22
In that day the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon; they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days.



5) the Eternal Age

Many people conflate the Kingdom age with the Eternal age. In the former, sin and death still reign, but not in the later.

Quote: Rev 21:1f (abridged)
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away...“Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Bob..
You hold to a Jewish/Christian understanding, which is a MIX of Error/Truth
 

VCO

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Of course there is the ( parenthetical ) age - ie:

Adamic to Israel age
OT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law age
NT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law age - [ postponed due to the 'fall of Israel' ]...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

( Dispensation of Grace, According To 'The Revelation Of The Mystery' ) Age
ending with God's Great GRACE Departure!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

...[ continuing ] NT Israel, according to prophecy/covenants/law 'Tribulation' age

Millennial Kingdom age

New Heavens / New Earth = Eternal Age

Amen.

There is not difference between OT Saints, and NT Saint. You have got it all wrong. AND look at this verse if you do not believe me:

(Mal 3:6 [HCSB])
Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,

you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

OT Saints are those who believed GOD would Sent the Messiah to pay for their Sins.
NT Saints are those who believed GOD DID Sent the Messiah to pay for our Sins.

It never has been a works Salvation System.

In fact, I am confident you do not KNOW the word "Church", Jesus never uttered, and neither did the Apostles.

It was added to the Bible long AFTER we started calling ourselves CHRISTIANS. About 300 AD, CHURCH became the "in thing", to call us.

So what did JESUS Call US ? ? It was the Assembly the same thing that HE called the OT SAINTS. HE sees no difference, why do you?

YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION, picked up on that before they translated the BIBLE into our language.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)

18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Now I want to show you another verse, and I would be surprised if you do not come away from it, with a DEEPER UNDERSTANDING.

Jesus is talking to the last of the O.T. Saints, because the birthday of the NT Assembly is not until the Pentecost Sunday after HIS Ascension:

John 10:16 (NKJV)
16 And other sheep (<-- last of O.T. Saints) I have which are not of this fold; (<-- N.T. Saints, that's us) them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock (at the RAPTURE) and one shepherd.

See why HE called us both MY ASSEMBLY ? Yes they Too will be Raptured to go to the Wedding of the LAMB, because the ONE FLOCK is the Bride of Christ.
 

Davy

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How many ages are there?

My premise is that a new age occurs every time there comes about new heavens and a new earth. A new age involves significant changes to our solar system and to earth's geography.
There is ONLY THREE written of per 2 Peter 3.

1. "the world that then was" = world prior to Satan's rebellion
2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now" = this present world earth age since Genesis 1:2.
3. "new heavens and a new earth" = the world to come after God's GWT Judgment and "lake of fire" destruction of the wicked.
 

Keraz

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No. I don't see any:
Revelation 20:11-15 makes it quite clear that everyone that has ever lived, will stand before God on His Great White Throne in Judgment, after the Millennium.
That is when Lazarus and David will rise and receive their reward of Eternal life. John 11:24, Acts 13:36 On the Last Day of this present earth.

Pauls Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:5-56, is about that Day and those still alive then, whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be instantly transformed into immortality.
Any ideas that people can receive immortality before that Day, are false and cannot happen.