How Many Christians Think We Will Find Terra Firma in Heaven after we Die?

[VCO]

The purpose of this Thread is to Discuss How Much We Know about Heaven.

I will give you a few Examples. It Says there are at least 2 Trees of Life in Heaven, and they used to grow in the Garden of Eden.

Revelation 2:7 (NASB)
7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

(Rev 22:2 [HCSB])
down the middle of the broad street of the city. The tree of life was on both sides of the river, bearing 12 kinds of fruit, producing its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree are for healing the nations,

(Rev 22:14 [HCSB])
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates.

(Rev 22:1 [HCSB])
Then he showed me the river of living water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Now doesn't it take a slight downward slope in the terra firma to make the River flow like that ?

Let me know if you can find anything else that proves there is terra firma in Heaven.

Now I will tell you a short story that Happened in our lives shortly after we got married, (we were married for 36 and a half years, before the Lord called her HOME) with a heart attack. We were trying different Churches to find a really good Bible Teaching Church. So one Sunday we went to one of the Baptist Churches. It was a Guest Missionary from Africa, that Taught the Sermon that Day. In his Closing Statement he said: "The reason I Serve the Lord in the mission field, is I don't want to get stuck with a little cabin out back on the Crystal River, I want the biggest, fanciest Mansion on the Street of Gold." My Mouth Fell Open at that greedy Statement. I would have walked out on him, but that was his closing statement. On the way to the car, I said to my wife, "I don't care what he said in there, I will take that little cabin on the Crystal River. I just want to be their with HIM." This is what I imagine the cabin will look like, AND, I cry every time I look it:

 

[Zachariah]

Heaven is not separate from our current existence. It is the unseen realm that is woven into the physicle seen realm. It is only while we live now may we experience it as an individual soul. After we die we "become" the experience, but only by the kind deeds we have acted out apon our lifetime. Heaven and Eden(paradise) are different. Heaven is of itself, where as Eden is the experience of Heaven we can have in the physicle domain. Heaven and the dust together make Eden.

 

[VCO]

Heaven is not separate from our current existence. It is the unseen realm that is woven into the physicle seen realm. It is only while we live now may we experience it as an individual soul. After we die we "become" the experience, but only by the kind deeds we have acted out apon our lifetime. Heaven and Eden(paradise) are different. Heaven is of itself, where as Eden is the experience of Heaven we can have in the physicle domain. Heaven and the dust together make Eden.

And you cannot verify any of that with Scriptures. No we all here believe it is a REAL PLACE, and so is HELL a REAL PLACE.

 

[Zachariah]

And you cannot verify any of that with Scriptures. No we all here believe it is a REAL PLACE, and so is HELL a REAL PLACE.

I'm not at all saying you should believe what I say, I'm simply expressing my understanding. It is one thing to speak for yourself and another thing to speak for everyone and dis include me from the community. Be aware that all modes of defence come from the ego. Belief systems are attached to the ego and in this case this is what you are trying to defend. There is no need to defend your belief as i am not here to enforce anything apon you. We may have different views but I am not seperate from you or the community. In God we are one body where as pride and ego create division and fragmentation.

 

[VCO]

I'm not at all saying you should believe what I say, I'm simply expressing my understanding. It is one thing to speak for yourself and another thing to speak for everyone and dis include me from the community. Be aware that all modes of defence come from the ego. Belief systems are attached to the ego and in this case this is what you are trying to defend. There is no need to defend your belief as i am not here to enforce anything apon you. We may have different views but I am not seperate from you or the community. In God we are one body where as pride and ego create division and fragmentation.

You just described a false belief system, and that false belief system has led you astray, not even in the same ball park. You just described a System of Religion, that separates from those of us that Use Scripture to validate what we Confess IS what we believe in, because GOD SAID IT IN HIS WORD. Sorry, but that the Truth.

I will show you what I am talking about.

(2Pet 2:1 [NET2.1 Free])
But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves.
(2Pet 2:2 [NET2.1 Free])
And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
(2Pet 2:3 [NET2.1 Free])
And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation pronounced long ago is not sitting idly by; their destruction is not asleep.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

(1Tim 6:3 [NET2.1 Free])
If someone spreads false teachings and does not agree with sound words (that is, those of our Lord Jesus Christ) and with the teaching that accords with godliness, {You see we are to defend our beliefs with Scripture.}
(1Tim 6:4 [NET2.1 Free])
he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in controversies and verbal disputes. This gives rise to envy, dissension, slanders, evil suspicions,

2 Pet. 1:20-21 {HCSB}
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is not your first warning, it is a Pre-Warning. If I were you, I would find a Church that is a Bible TEACHING Church, and here is what I mean by that. A church that has about an 1 hour of Bible Teaching, not a Church that the dominate part of the Church Service is not dominated by singing songs, or Order of Service, or Chasing after spiritual gifts; BUT FOCUSING ON BIBLE TEACHING, you need it bad.

 

[Zachariah]

I

You just described a false belief system, and that false belief system has led you astray, not even in the same ball park. You just described a System of Religion, that separates from those of us that Use Scripture to validate what we Confess IS what we believe in, because GOD SAID IT IN HIS WORD. Sorry, but that the Truth.

I will show you what I am talking about.

(2Pet 2:1 [NET2.1 Free])
But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves.
(2Pet 2:2 [NET2.1 Free])
And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
(2Pet 2:3 [NET2.1 Free])
And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation pronounced long ago is not sitting idly by; their destruction is not asleep.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

(1Tim 6:3 [NET2.1 Free])
If someone spreads false teachings and does not agree with sound words (that is, those of our Lord Jesus Christ) and with the teaching that accords with godliness, {You see we are to defend our beliefs with Scripture.}
(1Tim 6:4 [NET2.1 Free])
he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in controversies and verbal disputes. This gives rise to envy, dissension, slanders, evil suspicions,

2 Pet. 1:20-21 {HCSB}
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is not your first warning, it is a Pre-Warning. If I were you, I would find a Church that is a Bible TEACHING Church, and here is what I mean by that. A church that has about an 1 hour of Bible Teaching, not a Church that the dominate part of the Church Service is not dominated by singing songs, or Order of Service, or Chasing after spiritual gifts; BUT FOCUSING ON BIBLE TEACHING, you need it bad.

I never even said you where wrong, i just expressed my understanding. You are now pushing your belief onto me which is considered religious extremism. You are typing in capital letters, getting hot tempered and defensive over the situation.

We see things differently, that's ok with me.

 

[VCO]

I
I never even said you where wrong, i just expressed my understanding. You are now pushing your belief onto me which is considered religious extremism. You are typing in capital letters, getting hot tempered and defensive over the situation.

We see things differently, that's ok with me.

No your theology, is not a born again theology. It is not even in the same ball park. Not pushing you anywhere. You cannot claim to be a born again Christian, when your theology is the opposite. That is the Truth. And listen up, I am a graduate of High School in 1967. There is no anger in anything I type. WHY? Because My typing Teacher taught me the Rules for Typing. Back then WAY BEFORE FACE BOOK, ever came out with new rules, She said Capital Letter are strictly for EMPHASIS, not Anger. I don't bow down to Face Book rules, and never had a Face Book account in my life. I play by my Typing Teachers rules.

Oh, by the way, that is your First Warning, and the Third Warning, I will put you on my IGNOR LIST. See no anger at all.

 

[Zachariah]

I

No your theology, is not a born again theology. It is not even in the same ball park. Not pushing you anywhere. You cannot claim to be a born again Christian, when your theology is the opposite. That is the Truth. And listen up, I am a graduate of High School in 1967. There is no anger in anything I type. WHY? Because My typing Teacher taught me the Rules for Typing. Back then WAY BEFORE FACE BOOK, ever came out with new rules, She said Capital Letter are strictly for EMPHASIS, not Anger. I don't bow down to Face Book rules, and never had a Face Book account in my life. I play by my Typing Teachers rules.

Oh, by the way, that is your First Warning, and the Third Warning, I will put you on my IGNOR LIST. See no anger at all.

I never once claimed to be a "born again Christian", not what you would consider that to be anyway, so not sure where you got that from. As far as the threat to block me, you can do whatever pleases you.

 

[VCO]

I
I never once claimed to be a "born again Christian", not what you would consider that to be anyway, so not sure where you got that from. As far as the threat to block me, you can do whatever pleases you.

Saved Christian Or Born Again Christian, would not say half the things you already have said. It is NOT an acknowledge meant in your head that that is Saving Faith. I will show you, that It is a Saving Faith and TRUST in HIM AS LORD (the one who rules) IN YOUR HEART, not head knowledge of HIM.

James 2:19 (NIV)
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.


Matthew 7:13-23 (NIV)
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (No that is not works righteousness, it is Knowing HIM in your heart as LORD, and willing submitting to HIM in LOVE.)
22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. (IN THE HEART) Away from me, you evildoers!'

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

 

[Nancy]

Just curious, is there any scripture that say's the born again will be in heaven at all? I believe the final destination for all the born again will be the "new earth". Christ comes down to reign on the new earth so.....?

 

[VCO]

I never once claimed to be a "born again Christian", . . .

We know that, we are asking you to COME, and begin your NEW Life with HIM in control. It is the only REAL Christianity We KNOW. Ask anyone here. It is Not just knowing in your head, admitted the Stories about Jesus are TRUE. Even the Demons believe that. It is REALLY deep down GETTING TO KNOW all about HIM, He is Standing At the Door of your HEART, HE will NOT kick the Door Open, HE WANTS YOU TO INVITE HIM IN. How do I NO ? ? ?

Revelation 3:19-22 (NRSV)
19 I reprove and discipline those whom I love. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.
20 Listen! I am standing at the door, knocking; if you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to you and eat with you, and you with me.
21 To the one who conquers I will give a place with me on my throne, just as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
22 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches."

That is the Only way to Christ, that I know.
You have to willingly out of LOVE for HIM, invite HIM IN TO YOUR HEART.

Yes, in the last week of 1977, I invited HIM IN out of LOVE, and YES wave after wave of Guilt for my whole lifestyle also came in, and I CRIED FOR MORE THAT 2 HOURS. I wept more that any baby ever cried, and when I finally REALIZED, that HE HAD PAID FOR MY WHOLE SIN: Peace with GOD, LOVE FOR HIM, and Happiness quickly Returned. Don't try to reserve part of your old lifestyle for yourself, that is a trap, give it all TO HIM.

 

[Nancy]

Just curious, is there any scripture that say's the born again will be in heaven at all? I believe the final destination for all the born again will be the "new earth". Christ comes down to reign on the new earth so.....?

*CRICKETS*

 

[VCO]

Just curious, is there any scripture that say's the born again will be in heaven at all? I believe the final destination for all the born again will be the "new earth". Christ comes down to reign on the new earth so.....?

You are somewhat confused. WOW, I can think of many verses, it is hard to think of where to begin.

Luke 23:43 (NASB)
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Where is Paradise:

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (GW)
2 I know a follower of Christ who was snatched away (that is what raptured actually means,) to the third heaven fourteen years ago. I don't know whether this happened to him physically or spiritually. Only God knows.
3 I know that this person
4 was snatched away to paradise where he heard things that can't be expressed in words, things that humans cannot put into words. I don't know whether this happened to him physically or spiritually. Only God knows.

There are verses that explain what HE means by the First Heaven, and the Second Heaven.
First Heaven, He mentions "Is the birds soared through the Heavens" = Atmosphere.
Second Heaven is "the Stars of Heaven" = the Universe.
Third Heaven is "the Throne Room in Heaven" = The Eternal Dwelling place of GOD, also called paradise.

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 25:34 (YLT)
34 `Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

Revelation 4:1-5 (HCSB)
1 After this I looked, and there in heaven was an open door. The first voice that I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit, and a throne was set there in heaven. One was seated on the throne,
3 and the One seated looked like jasper and carnelian stone. A rainbow that looked like an emerald surrounded the throne.
4 Around that throne were 24 thrones, and on the thrones sat 24 elders dressed in white clothes, with gold crowns on their heads.
5 Flashes of lightning and rumblings of thunder came from the throne. Seven fiery torches were burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

 

[Patrick1966]

Seven fiery torches were burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

What are the seven spirits?

 

[Nancy]

You are somewhat confused. WOW, I can think of many verses, it is hard to think of where to begin.

Luke 23:43 (NASB)
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Where is Paradise:

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (GW)
2 I know a follower of Christ who was snatched away (that is what raptured actually means,) to the third heaven fourteen years ago. I don't know whether this happened to him physically or spiritually. Only God knows.
3 I know that this person
4 was snatched away to paradise where he heard things that can't be expressed in words, things that humans cannot put into words. I don't know whether this happened to him physically or spiritually. Only God knows.

There are verses that explain what HE means by the First Heaven, and the Second Heaven.
First Heaven, He mentions "Is the birds soared through the Heavens" = Atmosphere.
Second Heaven is "the Stars of Heaven" = the Universe.
Third Heaven is "the Throne Room in Heaven" = The Eternal Dwelling place of GOD, also called paradise.

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 25:34 (YLT)
34 `Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

Revelation 4:1-5 (HCSB)
1 After this I looked, and there in heaven was an open door. The first voice that I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit, and a throne was set there in heaven. One was seated on the throne,
3 and the One seated looked like jasper and carnelian stone. A rainbow that looked like an emerald surrounded the throne.
4 Around that throne were 24 thrones, and on the thrones sat 24 elders dressed in white clothes, with gold crowns on their heads.
5 Flashes of lightning and rumblings of thunder came from the throne. Seven fiery torches were burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

Thank you for the reply
"On earth as it is in heaven". How do you know the third heaven, where God resides means Paradise? It is mostly talking about a "garden".

"The Kingdom of God is within you"

John wasn't dead yet so, it was not his "final destination". I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm serious! Lol. Would love to hear what others think about this. Maybe I'll make a thread.

 

[Johann]

Thank you for the reply
"On earth as it is in heaven". How do you know the third heaven, where God resides means Paradise? It is mostly talking about a "garden".

"The Kingdom of God is within you"

John wasn't dead yet so, it was not his "final destination". I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm serious! Lol. Would love to hear what others think about this. Maybe I'll make a thread.

Now that would be a great idea @Nancy-I believe upon death we are immediately with the Lord-but will wait once you open the thread.
Shalom to you and family sister.
Johann.

 

[VCO]

What are the seven spirits?

I think it is part of GOD's nature, of Perfection or completeness of the Holy Spirit. Will look it up.


QUOTE:
As he looked at the scene in heaven John saw two things before the throne. First were seven lamps of fire. Unlike the lampstands mentioned in 1:12-13, these were outdoor torches, giving off not the soft, gentle light of an indoor lamp, but the fierce, blazing light of a fiery torch. John identifies them as the seven Spirits of God. As noted in the discussion of 1:4 in chapter 1 of this volume, that phrase describes the Holy Spirit in all His fullness (cf. Isa. 11:2; Zech. 4:1-10). The sevenfold representation of the Holy Spirit in Isaiah speaks of wisdom, understanding, counsel, strength, knowledge, reverence, and deity; in Zechariah of power; in Revelation 1:4 of grace and peace; and here of fiery judgment. Torches are associated with war in Judges 7:16, 20 and Nahum 2:3-4. John's vision depicts God as ready to make war on sinful, rebellious mankind and the Holy Spirit as His war torch.
MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Revelation 1-11.
END QUOTE:

QUOTE:
seven lamps... seven Spirits—The Holy Spirit in His sevenfold operation, as the light-and-life Giver (compare Rev. 5:6, seven eyes... the seven Spirits of God; Rev. 1:4 Rev. 21:23; Ps 119:105) and fiery purifier of the godly, and consumer of the ungodly (Mt 3:11).
A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.
END QUOTE:

QUOTE:
4:5 It is clear that the throne here is one of judgment, with its terrifying lightnings, thunderings, and voices. The seven lamps of fire represent the Holy Spirit in His fullness and majesty. There is only one Spirit of God, but the seven represents perfection and completeness.
Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
END QUOTE:

 

[Nancy]

Now that would be a great idea @Nancy-I believe upon death we are immediately with the Lord-but will wait once you open the thread.
Shalom to you and family sister.
Johann.

Hey Johann!
Yes, at death I DO believe our spirits go to Him but, that is not the final destination as, Jesus will rule the Nations for 1000 years. What do you say about "On Earth, as it is in heaven"?

 

[Johann]

Hey Johann!
Yes, at death I DO believe our spirits go to Him but, that is not the final destination as, Jesus will rule the Nations for 1000 years. What do you say about "On Earth, as it is in heaven"?

Hmmm-

Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

I'll have to think on that dear sister-12:35 AM-dead tired.
Good to hear from you-
Johann.

Is the font size too small @Nancy?

 

[Nancy]

Hmmm-

Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

I'll have to think on that dear sister-12:35 AM-dead tired.
Good to hear from you-
Johann.

Is the font size too small @Nancy?

Lol, no, I only make mine large because we have a few on here who have a hard time reading the regular sized type. So I am in the habit of doing it for them

I know there are many up there just from the martyrs under the alter, waiting for justice to be served. Can't get "On earth AS it is in heaven."
Okay, nite nite!

Sleep well and may The Lord refresh you in the A.M.