How many have ever changed their minds...

[amadeus]

I thought you didn't want to discuss things? I'm not 100% right in everything, neither are you. But, when the Bible is clear on something as it is with tongues, it sad to see people reject it over their emotions, or in your case, length of time being a Christian (since 1980).

Have you ever spoken an actual foreign human language with your gift of tongues?

Have you ever considered how many different gifts of tongues from God there might be?

"To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

Some years ago I recognized not less than three according to the scriptures. That not many manifest them at all in some church groups is an indication to me that at times and in places some people are ignoring Apostle Paul's admonition and perhaps replacing the Way of God with their hermeneutics or even just the way that their people have long chosen to do things:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[John Caldwell]

That is one of those strange words people use on forums that I had never heard before. You say it is important, but if a person is not led and taught by the Holy Spirit, it is certainly worthless, right?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

"Hermeneutics" just means making sure we are reading God's Word.

I agree with you. There are too many "knowledge seekers" void of the Spirit.

John Owen (a Puritan minister) wrote:

Whatever God works in us and upon us, he doth it by his Spirit; he, therefore, who hath no work of the Spirit of God upon his heart did never receive either mercy or grace from God, for God giveth them not but by his Spirit.

When people void of the work of the Spirit in their lives strive to understand Scripture they walk away with a legalist theology that is void of the Spirit. Christian men have to trust God, trust in His Spirit, and obey His command.

 

[amadeus]

@michaelvpardo Well, I do think the sign gifts in Acts were for the period before the complete Scriptures were available; we now have complete and sufficient authority to declare the whole counsel of God (Acts 20.27).

Paul did, but how many here do? The authority of God is here among us. It is available to whosoever will, but how many will express their unbelief that the power of God can overcome the sin in a person before he dies physically? Their lack of faith in His ability to do is effectively calling Jesus a liar... yet they persist!

 

[farouk]

"Hermeneutics" just means making sure we are reading God's Word.

I agree with you. There are too many "knowledge seekers" void of the Spirit.

John Owen (a Puritan minister) wrote:

Whatever God works in us and upon us, he doth it by his Spirit; he, therefore, who hath no work of the Spirit of God upon his heart did never receive either mercy or grace from God, for God giveth them not but by his Spirit.

When people void of the work of the Spirit in their lives strive to understand Scripture they walk away with a legalist theology that is void of the Spirit. Christian men have to trust God, trust in His Spirit, and obey His command.

@John Caldwell John Owen wrote some good theological material; I wouldn't agree with all of it from a church government point of view but he was really good in many areas, included the great quote there!

 

[michaelvpardo]

So you can know who is saved and who is not. What makes you think you can question her salvation.[LC627]???I pretty certain she will school you on the scriptures, go for it

Off your medications? I didn't say anything about anybody, but made a comment regarding the source of doctrine denying the truth of scripture. God schools me in scripture and I'm pretty sure that He knows what he's talking about.
However, if the shoe fits...

 

[amadeus]

Classic Word of Faith comebacks: #1 Lack of faith. #2 You're a Pharisee.
Let me know when you heal the blind.

When the devil quoted part of the 91st Psalm at Jesus, the Lord told him this:

"...It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7

Healing the blind is accomplished every time a person comes to God and sees the Truth, which is Jesus. Pressing for someone to perform what you would call a physical miracle is tempting God.


"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

 

[michaelvpardo]

Nope not at all. What is your view of greater though? Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and he was in the tomb for several days. Why don't we see this today? Certainly raising someone from the dead that has been dead for 2 weeks would be greater, wouldn't it?

Probably because we already know that there will be a resurrection, actually 2 of them, so what would be the point?

 

[farouk]

spent the first three years just reading the same bible, repeatedly, front to back (an inexpensive King James Version that I had to discard when the pages started falling out.) ...

@michaelvpardo Good Bible version, there, I think...

 

[amadeus]

And have you raised someone from the dead? Has your shadow landed on someone and they were healed? Opened the blind eyes? I doubt it.

"...According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

What you don't believe is your lack of faith in God... or your negative faith. Among unbelievers that would not be surprising, but it seems like there's lots of that in places which name themselves churches today.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Off your medications? I didn't say anything about anybody, but made a comment regarding the source of doctrine denying the truth of scripture. God schools me in scripture and I'm pretty sure that He knows what he's talking about.
However, if the shoe fits...

You said tares among the wheat??? She is not a tare.

 

[amadeus]

Go to your local hospital and heal the sick. You got faith and Jesus said you will do greater works than He, have at it.

This my friend is tempting God! God can certainly heal any person of any problem, but He does not do that to satisfy mockers or doubters:

"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:" Matt 12:39

There you have your sign. Take hold of it in faith... if you will!

 

[amadeus]

People can say a lot of things over the Internet. Am I suppose to just take someones word that I've never met before as fact?

That's just as naive as people believing Perry Stone when he talks about the "Meal that Heals" as he wears eye glasses.

Do you also doubt Jesus when you simply read in a book, the Bible, what he accomplished by the power of God? People don't do the healing you are doubting. When it is actually done, and in His time it most certainly is, God does it. You doubt Him but would you also claim to be His child?

"Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." John 8:41-42

 

[amadeus]

The Holy Spirit does not teach you to abuse John 14:26

Do you really believe that is what I am doing? Do you know the mind and will of God so well that you may correct every person who disagrees with what you believe by making such a statement? Remember this conversation between Job and God?

"Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:1-5

Do you know God better than did Job? Before you answer, remember what Paul wrote about this:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

Perhaps you will say now that Paul meant something different than what I believe that he meant. If you are not absolutely certain you are right and that I am wrong, would it not be better to remain silent than to speak something God would not want you to say?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7

 

[John Caldwell]

Tares among the wheat.

Yep. Tares grow among the wheat. That is what we have to deal with.

Sometimes we can discern those who are not saved (their spirit reveals their heart). But tares look like wheat and grow with the wheat until harvest lest wheat be pulled instead. This is the reason for the threshing floor (Judgment). A wonderful illustration.

 

[Hidden In Him]

1) in particular, of space and its dimensions

2) of number and quantity

Strong's Greek #3173 "large, great, in the widest sense"

OK, now for starters, the word used in all MSS in John 14:12 is μείζων (Strongs 3187), not μέγας (Strongs 3173). They are different words.

The specific question I was asking here is, in what verses in the NT can μείζων be rightly translated "more widespread" to justify your interpretation of the word. There are 47, and none of them would seem to support this translation.

I don't mean to make fun, but let me show you how strange it would sound in some places.

- Jesus declaring of Himself, "But I say unto you, That in this place is one more widespread than the temple." (Matthew 12:6)
- "He that is most widespread among you shall be your servant" (Matthew 23:11)
- "[the disciples] disputed among themselves, who should be the most widespread." (Mark 9:34)
- The woman at the well asking Jesus, "Are you more widespread than our father Jacob?" (John 4:12)

There are several others, but you get the idea. The meaning of μείζων is "greater," unless it is used in the comparative, in which the rendering becomes "greatest." This is the way the word is consistently translated in the NT.

Following this Jesus also stated that if we ask anything in His name He will do it (John 14:13-14). If "works" mean only signs/wonders/miracles than "anything" must mean anything!

Anything in keeping with His will, yes, including greater works. Let me ask something H2S was alluding to: If scripture says that the harvest is the end of the age, what do you think is going to cause that immense harvest to come about? Joel 2:28 speaks of a great outpouring of the Spirit in the last days, so why are you certain that His ability to do greater works in the earth is now over?

 

[michaelvpardo]

@michaelvpardo Good Bible version, there, I think...

It's the first version I read as a child (though I didn't understand much of it) and I read a few others before I actually believed the gospel. I was actually quite upset when I picked up a Gideon's bible and found Jehovah written instead of LORD (as well as other minor differences). I thought all bibles would have identical content and didn't even know that the original languages were, Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I was so young I couldn't understand why Jesus wanted us to take His yoke upon us (I thought that was the inside of an egg, but at least the word was in a dictionary and my dad's encyclopedia.)
These days my favorite version to read is the New King James because it keeps the style of the prose but with modern English. I do enjoy the prose style of the JPS Tanakh, but it's only the books of the Old testament, and messianic verses are altered with footnotes indicating that the translation isn't clear.
I also like the NASB version. Some scholars claim it's the most accurate translation, but it reads less poetically. The ESV is another version that is reportedly very accurate and a decent read. I've never studied the original languages but figure that the creator of the universe is able to give me the understanding that I need to fulfill my calling. My head is cluttered with what the world calls knowledge and it changes constantly. So I care less about knowing about God than actually knowing Him as my friend and companion. Spending time with Him in the fellowship of His word seems far more satisfying than examining what He's said in minutia.
I read different versions and when differences seem significant I go to my old Strong's concordance (for the KJV) or my ebook copy of a word for word literal translation. It seems to work pretty well and the differences in translation give insights into the doctrine accepted by the translators. Some people are scholars by bent, but the scribes and Pharisees that rejected Christ were the scholars of their age and they missed Him completely. The word is funny that way and most things were before my eyes but hidden from my understanding before I believed and asked for His Spirit in all sincerity. I suppose you have to ask yourself if relationship is developed by studying someone or spending time with them. The latter isn't really even possible unless you've received Him.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You said tares among the wheat??? She is not a tare.

Who is she? And why do you think she's a tare?

 

[Episkopos]

I'm a seeker that is always looking to deepen my understanding. So it's not a change of doctrine...but an adding to it. Whether a poster is wrong about something or right...it makes you think. And contemplation and meditation is good for the soul.

There are times though when I have to go for a walk just shaking my head.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm a seeker that is always looking to deepen my understanding. So it's not a change of doctrine...but an adding to it. Whether a poster is wrong about something or right...it makes you think. And contemplation and meditation is good for the soul.

There are times though when I have to go for a walk just shaking my head.

Sometimes I think I'm swimming in the deep end, but find out I'm just flopping around in the kiddie pool.

 

[amadeus]

Has anyone ever changed their minds on a doctrinal position as a result of praying and studying something out that they read here on CB?

Please share. Debate is not the goal here, as inevitable as it may be. Testimony is.

I'll start.

I once realized while dicussing covenants on another forum website, that I didn't know nearly enough about them. (Still don't, btw)

I did not want to miss addressing your OP, but by the time I got here a lot had already happened. Was any of it good?

My main changing events in God occurred in 1976, 1987 and 2002 and none of them directly involved Internet forums. The last one was impacted by people on a forum, but that was still about 6 years before I became a member of CB.

However, in answer to the question regarding CB, it is most certainly, yes, although I would be hard pressed to remember the precise changes... because the changes sometimes at least involved things happening elsewhere. However again...

I have been growing in God as everyone of us hopefully has been doing since we first met the Master. We all started as babes in Christ. Are any of us still babes?

Has God ever talked to me through people on this forum? Yes, sometimes I have learned something good... which means at least another little bit of an increase from God, right? Can one increase without changing? I think it would hard, if not impossible, to do.