How much ungodly behavior do you see in the church?

[marksman]

The church as a whole.

That's interesting. Only three converts is pretty bad. Do you evangelize? I don't talk to people usually but I leave tracts around.

Maybe you can call yourself a professional-sounding name, incorporate into an LLC and tell pastors that you're the CEO of an organization that works to bring denominations together to work on the issues facing the church, the town, and the nation. If you go to them using this mantle, they might take you more seriously. But from what I could see in multiple churches, there is a root of pride in a number of pastors. We've met a few who were humble; not many. But even the prideful ones may see you as a professional, if you present yourself that way, and not some Joe who comes in off the street trying to tell them what to do.

In this situation, most of them knew me as I had been involved in one way or another with the churches. In one case I was a founding member.

In another attempt to unite them together I came up with the idea of a praise night. One of the members of one of the churches I was involved in was a brilliant musician and I had invited him to take control of the music side of things. I called a meeting and invited all the pastors or a representative of the church.

One who came asked who was going to be in charge. I said I was going to take overall responsibility as God had given me the vision and the musician, who was at the meeting, would oversee the music side of things.

His reply was if he wasn't going to run it he was not interested.

 

[bbyrd009]

ha!

 

[GodsBeloved11]

The church is a hospital for sinners, not a resort for perfect people. I have seen lots of sinful people in church, and people doing sins in church venues/positions. I don't expect perfection remotely, or even always good behavior. That being said, I do think it is a hugely important thing for a sinner to be in the hospital (aka church), and to be working with the doctor (aka Christ). That is what we should be striving for, and to being working with our own doctor (aka Christ). Bemoaning "oh somebody should fix this" or "the church is so weak", aren't productive and very frequently a distraction from each of us working with our doctor.

The issue is whether they repent of their sin. That's how I see it

 

[GodsBeloved11]

I've heard that said by people who accept or excuse sinful behavior instead of trying to correct it. In fact, it's used as a crutch from what I saw. "Yeah, we're all sinners, and if I pick my buddy to go on this trip to evangelize the Bahamas, then get over it!" And why do you have to get the congregation to pay for your "missionary trip" when you can walk out the front door of the church and evangelize? We were in another church and asked to give an "extra donation" for "families in the church to send their children to Christian school." Good works, right? Then why was that church okay with taking donations from my family yet never offered us any money to help our children go to Christian school? It's hypocrisy.

If someone accidentally slights another in church, yes I think we have to overlook some offenses. The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression. Proverbs 19:11 but when people begin excusing ugly behavior with well-worn cliches then there's a problem. They aren't being honest if a real problem has been brought to their attention. There are a-billion-and-one ways to be deceptive, and I've seen such deception in the church.

The school thing is awful

I hate when churches beg for money . In the scriptures we commanded to give as we feel led. Not under any compulsion.