Jesus said to do the righteousness commandments....to love others as ourselves....from the second tablet. But not the 10th commandment (or the first 4 holiness commandments) That commandment cannot be kept by a person walking according to the flesh.
How should we view the Rich Young Ruler?
- Thread starter Episkopos
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
You and I have very different views on the law. Which is fine...
From my perspective, the gospel accounts of the RYR from Mark and Luke (quoted below) better fit
my understanding of the interchange. And other than the "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
quote from Matthew, do we see Jesus promoting law-keeping anywhere else?
He actually treats the law as hearsay in the Beatitudes, "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..."
Anyway, here's how I read it...
Jesus was speaking to the common understanding of the Israelites of his day. Salvation was through law-keeping.
The RYR was befuddled/dissatisfied with this common confusion about salvation. He replied, “What do I still lack?”
He knew it wasn't enough to fill the void he was feeling in his life.
And Jesus told him. “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to
the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” What became of the law-keeping?
The bottom line advice had nothing to do with the law, to my knowledge.
Mark 10:18-20 NIV
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery,
you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[a]”
20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”
Luke 18:19-21 NIV
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder,
you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”
21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
Jesus was correcting what the traditions of men had taken away from God's law. The same thing needs to be done today concerning the gospel.
INHERITING life in the next age is indeed through law keeping. We will all be judged by our works. Entering into eternal life NOW...to walk as Jesus walked...is another thing altogether.
We can NOW put on Christ's perfection by entering INTO Him. Doing so means we are walking in His resurrection power...called grace.
These are commandments that can be done in one's own power...the righteousness commandments. The others require God's holiness...or being perfect as God is perfect.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I think part of why our views differ so much is in definitions, on my part.
Whereas you lump the law/commandments/God's law into one category,
I see them as three separate things. Which I briefly explain in the topic OP below.
Basically:
The law = the 613/614 individual commands of the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
God's law = the universal law represented in our God-given human conscience
The Law (capital L) = the Books of the Law (not the laws themselves)
Now look at what I bolded in your post quote above. From my view, you are all over the place. - LOL
Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things
- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...
www.christianityboard.com
Last edited:
Its a wonderful thing to know that its the Lord Jesus who makes a person right with God through faith.
The holy spirit is poured into the individuals heart by God himself.
Through your entire life, you must make the choice to abide in the Lord Yeshua, with failures of the flesh along the way; but the child of God who desires to be a son or daughter of God will abide in Christ; even though they fail in their flesh when it comes up.
Praise be God, and the Lord Jesus who nailed the laws and ordinaces to the cross that we can die to sin and become alive unto God through Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.
The rich young man could have done this, later on after his encounter with Yeshua; but at the time he chose to remain with his riches.
What is it the world gives?
1 John 2:16
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
The same things which tempted eve after she was beguiled.
“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.”
Genesis 3:6 NKJV
Eat from the tree of life, the bread of life instead.
“On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except that one which His disciples had entered, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with His disciples, but His disciples had gone away alone— however, other boats came from Tiberias, near the place where they ate bread after the Lord had given thanks— when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they also got into boats and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You come here?” Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.” Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.””
John 6:22-33 NKJV
The holy spirit is poured into the individuals heart by God himself.
Through your entire life, you must make the choice to abide in the Lord Yeshua, with failures of the flesh along the way; but the child of God who desires to be a son or daughter of God will abide in Christ; even though they fail in their flesh when it comes up.
Praise be God, and the Lord Jesus who nailed the laws and ordinaces to the cross that we can die to sin and become alive unto God through Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.
The rich young man could have done this, later on after his encounter with Yeshua; but at the time he chose to remain with his riches.
What is it the world gives?
1 John 2:16
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
The same things which tempted eve after she was beguiled.
“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.”
Genesis 3:6 NKJV
Genesis 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | Dow
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an
bible.com
Eat from the tree of life, the bread of life instead.
“On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except that one which His disciples had entered, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with His disciples, but His disciples had gone away alone— however, other boats came from Tiberias, near the place where they ate bread after the Lord had given thanks— when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they also got into boats and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You come here?” Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.” Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.””
John 6:22-33 NKJV
John 6:22-33 On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except that one which His disciples had entered, and that Jesus had not ent | New King James Version (NKJV) | Do
On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except that one which His...
bible.com
Jesus tried to convince him that he was a sinner. But he repeatedly defended his righteousness by lying. Who knows what became of him. He wanted eternal life, but if it meant that he had to repent, then forget it. He didn't think that there was anything to repent about. Hell is going to be full of self-righteous people.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I didn't vote.
None of the choices worked for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I see that all the votes came in for #1
"He is portrayed as one who will inherit life, as saved, but not enter the holy city"
Based on the key scripture provided, "eternal" life came by commandment-keeping.
However, no one can keep the law, so no one can EARN eternal life.
#2 would judge the RYR to hell. We can't make that call.
#3 Uses the word purgatory. (a Catholic term)
Christian Universalism has an Age of Restoration, which everyone will attend,
So, we can't single out the RYR.
Based on the information we have about the RYR, he decided not to
sell everything he owned and follow Christ. Was his commandment-keeping enough?
None of the choices worked for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How Should we view the Rich Young Ruler?
- He is portrayed as one who will inherit life, as saved, but not enter the holy city
- He's going straight to hell for not being a disciple of Christ
- He needs time in purgatory
I see that all the votes came in for #1
"He is portrayed as one who will inherit life, as saved, but not enter the holy city"
Based on the key scripture provided, "eternal" life came by commandment-keeping.
However, no one can keep the law, so no one can EARN eternal life.
#2 would judge the RYR to hell. We can't make that call.
#3 Uses the word purgatory. (a Catholic term)
Christian Universalism has an Age of Restoration, which everyone will attend,
So, we can't single out the RYR.
Based on the information we have about the RYR, he decided not to
sell everything he owned and follow Christ. Was his commandment-keeping enough?
Not enough to live in God's presence in the holy city. But God is merciful enough to let him walk in the light of his countenance among the nations of them that are saved.
I've come to see from my interactions with others that some of us don't have churches the same as others. I've heard so many poor reports of what people's pastors teach them I'm appalled, and thankful for having Godly and Biblical pastors and teachers. What passes for teaching out there is deplorable!No, I have not heard a sermon concerning the RTR going to hell. It doesn't mean that they don't exist of course.All it says is that the young man went away disappointed. I suppose he wanted Jesus to give him validation. To me, Jesus' instructions to the rich man are very instructive to the rest of us. What did Jesus see in the rich man that he didn't see in himself?
Much love!
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Pure speculation, but what if the rich young ruler was Joseph of Arimathea? You know Jesus had a conversion with Nicodimus. Both took Jesus' body for burial.
I like your speculation! Maybe it was. Jesus loved him, we can share that love for him in our hope that he did come to faith.
Much love!
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
OF course, I do believe both maybe were in the upper room too on Pentecost.
I would think so, why not?
Imagine the joy of having publically declared themselves for Jesus in His death, then to know His resurrection, and the fellowship of His followers. And then comes the Holy Spirit!
Much love!
I agree with what @Episcopos wrote above, and I don't think he's necessarily incorrect for lumping the law into one category.
When God presented the 10 Commandments to Moses, there were other precepts (for lack of a better word right now) that were written. God referred to His "Laws" as His "Commandments, statutes and ordinances." All of those fall under "The Law."
The Hebrew Bible eventually had three divisions: The Law (a.k.a. The Torah), The Prophets and The Writings. The Law (Torah) has 613/614 versed Commandments, statutes and ordinances. But the Jews kept adding to The Law with their own "laws."
IMHO, there's two types of law; the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law is just that. Law that's written down. But the spirit of the law is the rationale behind the creation of the law in the first place, with the understanding that there are valid exceptions to the letter of the law. For example, when Jesus was preaching his Sermon on the Mount, he said, "You've heard it said that Thou shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery in his heart." (I paraphrased)I see them as three separate things. Which I briefly explain in the topic OP below.
Basically:
The law = the 613/614 individual commands of the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
God's law = the universal law represented in our God-given human conscience
The Law (capital L) = the Books of the Law (not the laws themselves)
Now look at what I bolded in your post quote above. From my view, you are all over the place. - LOL
Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things
- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...
Jesus wasn't creating new law or more law. Transgressing against the letter of the law doesn't begin with action; it begins with what's in someone's heart.
Another example is when Jesus asked, "Which one of you wouldn't pull your oxen out of ditch if it falls into it on the Sabbath?" (I'm paraphrasing again). Jesus was not asking a hypothetical question. There was an actual 'law' in (I think) the Temple Scroll that stated that it was "unlawful to pull an oxen out of a ditch if it falls into it on the Sabbath"! So, the Jews had created a new law that God...never said.
Anywho, just my 2 cents.
I think some of it has to do with aberrant teachings...prosperity gospel is an example of that. Controlling spirit is another. But I would say that generally the gospel is not understood by modern believers as a whole. Not at any depth. We are rich just like the RYR...even more so....and rather than go away sad as he did...we changed the meaning of the gospel so we can rejoice without giving anything up...and act as if we were actually doing God's will.
Many do seem to act that way. Many do seem to keep the discussion on a fleshy level. I read through so many threads, yours included, and see so much fleshiness. It's courted, it's ignored, it's justified. You, others, it seems like the schoolyard.
Accusations are flung freely about, but who understands serving one another out of the love grown in our faith?
Endless squabbling back and forth, back and forth . . .
We've done what? We've changed the Gospel? Speak for yourself my friend! The true depth of the Gospel is knowing God, is a changed life, is setting aside our pride, need for affirmation, and showing through what we do and what we say that we aren't driven by our flesh any longer.
And the words we use are the quickest way to know where we are at spiritually. It's in our words. An undisciplined man will have undisciplined words, plain and simple.
Yes, I agree, there is much abberant teaching. I think another aspect to acknowledge is the matter of abberant motivations, teaching aside. Some will use Biblical themes to vaunt themselves over others, making Scripture moldable to their own use. This is something else seen in various people's teaching as it will lack both depth and consistency.
I think at the end of the day, I get the idea that some just think of themselves as better than others, and automatically look down on them, and it shows in their speech. Of course the Bible tells us that our words reveal our heart. It seems so to me!
Much love!
Jesus also spoke in parables,
While a Christian themselves can be rich, its the priorities, that can get mixed up.
Christians can be rich, or poor. It's their heart and priorities that matter, do they put God first over all the material things?
Jesus is a profound teacher, quite the master.
All one possess can be whats at the top of their heart - it could be the worldly stuff compared to the spiritual.
It can be even holding their parents higher than God, or Friends higher than God.
It can be holding their opinion higher than God, for example.
It can be holding their jobs higher than God, perhaps.
There is a lot to consider from the master.
It's hard for people who are rich to enter into the kingdom cause they do not see the need for Jesus - They already have everything they could want, as far this material system goes.
All one possess can involve their very own will - which is why picking up ones on cross is even difficult.
Jesus is very masterful, and it's not wrong if a Christian is rich or not... it's the priorities.
It's easier for a person who has done a lot of wrong things to accept Jesus Christ as savior than a person who has done very little wrong in aspect of just 'never getting in trouble'. While we are all sinners, Jesus is the savior however - those who are rich and done very little wrong may never even see a need for Jesus at all.
Last edited:
Everyone wants to make a sermon out of the story of the rich young ruler.
Here is the truth about it. He would not confess that he was a sinner. Jesus gave him several opportunities for him to admit that he was a sinner, but he wouldn't budge from his self-righteous platform. The first step to becoming saved is to admit that you are a sinner. If you don't admit that you are a sinner, you cannot be saved. Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners the rich young ruler disqualified himself.
Similar threads
