How the New Word Translation Contradicts Itself: The Word was a god

[Wrangler]

you reject the only true God and Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It’s more like we accept the only true God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

Lucifer and his angels were the first to make themselves gods

According to John 1:1, the first god was the word of God (meaning the literal plan, logic, voice) of the Creator.

 

[Wrangler]

You honor yourselves as speaking of the one God, and yet you preach there be many gods, of whim christ is but one.

Again. These are Christs words. They are good enough for me. Why are they not good enough for you?

 

[Angel Faith]

Do you believe then that there are gods, that are indeed gods? Do you believe God in Psalms, and Jesus Christ was calling them gods, as an honor? The fact is, that the ones being spoken to as gods, were the rebellious against God:

As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture concludes that all such gods are idols of men only, and there is only one true God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not calling His people gods, but rather was exposing the hypocrisy of the unbelievers, that were rejecting Jesus as Son of God on earth, and yet thought of themselves as gods in their own right.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is the first lie, that Lucifer had in his own heart, when he was cast down, and helped put into the heart of man, when Adam also fell by transgression.

The lie is to be as gods, and are no gods, but are only angels and men that rebel against God, and think to be gods unto themselves, with right to do good or evil, according to their own will and pleasure.

What gods was the serpent promising man to be as? The fallen angels.

“They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.”

And so, why does Scripture agree that His people had become as gods? Not for the good, but for the evil: it was an accusation against them.

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

God is speaking to those people who have rebelled against Him, just as Lucifer, the angels, and Adam did: they are being judged as false gods of their own making:

“Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?”

God is not speaking to His faithful and true and humble people, but only to the proud and rebellious, when He calls them gods.

And so we see who was Jesus also was speaking to, when He quoted the Psalm that rebuked the people for thinking themselves gods:

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

He was speaking, once again, to the unbelievers in Himself as Christ and Son of God. He was not telling the faithful children of Israel, that they were indeed gods.

The unbelievers then, as today, that reject Jesus Christ as Lord and God, also believe they are gods, and preach gods and lords of angels and men.

He was simply taking them in their own delusion: they thought that being gods is good and true and real. So Jesus simply turned their foolishness on themselves, by asking why they should reject Himself as being Son of God, when they think they are gods themselves.

The truth about being gods in Scripture, is that angels and men are indeed created eternal spiritual beings, in the image and likeness of God Himself, But when they turn to their own counsel and will to do evil and good, they still remain immortal beings, but make themselves false gods and idols unto ourselves, who are not eternally separated and apart from the eternal life of God, that is only Christ Jesus.

Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.

Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

The nature of being gods in Scripture, is to make oneself a god unto ourselves, to choose good and evil according to our own will and imagination, while paying lip service to the commandment, word, and law of Christ.

Nowhere in Scripture, does God speak any good of being gods. Therefore, to make Jesus Christ a god, is to blaspheme Him as an idol, devil, and false god.

And all translations that call Jesus Christ a god, end up cursing Him elsewhere in Scripture, as a false god.

Angels aren't god's.

Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים, romanized: ʾĔlōhīm: [(ʔ)eloˈ(h)im]), the plural of אֱלוֹהַּ‎ (ʾĔlōah), is a Hebrew word meaning "gods". Although the word is plural, in the Hebrew Bible it usually takes a singular verb and refers to a single deity,[1][2][3][4] particularly (but not always) the God of Israel.[1][2][3][4][5][6] At other times it refers to deities in the plural.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

Elohim - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Wrangler]

Angels aren't god's.

They are. See Ps 86

 

[Angel Faith]

They are. See Ps 86

8 There is none like Thee among the gods, O Lord, And like Thy works there are none.

Would David compare angels to God?

Angels are called sons of God in the Bible. Not god's.

 

[amigo de christo]

When Jesus was speaking to the desciples about the coming comforter He said something very interesting
that i dont think some cults will like .
Let us read john chapter fourteen . Jesus speaks of the coming comforter the Holy Ghost that is given unto
the believers . Notice He says when answering their question , If a man loves me
He will keep my sayings and My Father him and WE will come come unto HIM .
WE . Yep the HOLY GHOST IS that ONE SPIRIT , OF GOD OF CHRIST .
When JOHN said the WORD was with GOD and GOD is the WORD , HE MEANT IT .
There is not two spirits , one of GOD and one of Christ . ITS THAT SAME ONE SPIRIT . JUST as GOD is HIS WORD
SO HE IS HIS SPIRIT . Folks , when thomas said MY LORD and MY GOD to JESUS , JESUS DID NOT CORRECT HIM .
The angel corrected JOHN and told him to get up and to worship GOD ONLY . BUT notice JESUS never said no such thing
to thomas . Me thinks folks are getting duped real bad by dangerous men . real bad .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is to be expected. The NWT is a cultic "bible" designed to fool the gullible. It is also based upon the corrupt critical text of Westcott & Hort (Now Nestle-Aland). Many have been fooled into believing the lies of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is absolutely sad. There is nothing "new world" about this translation, unless it is designed to run parallel with the New World Order.

Hey enoch read john chapter fourteen this evening .
Jesus gives a long speech about the coming comforter , the Holy Ghost .
Jesus also answers their question . AND i dont think cults are gonna like this .
He says if a man loves me he will keep my words and my Father shall love him and WE , WE shall ..............
The HOLY GHOST IS the SPIRIT OF GOD , IT IS the SPIRIT OF CHRIST . ITS ONE SPIRIT .
JUST as GOD IS HIS WORD . This attack upon the diety of Christ has went viral as of late
due to the fact they must break JESUS Down into just another prophet
so as they can make him just one prophet among the other false religions prophets .
I MEAN if JESUS really IS who HE IS , THEN NO way can the other religions be valid .
AND no way can they be worshipping GOD either . THEY attack the diety cause they desired the one world religion .
Its a mess cause ROME actually leads in it . Hyprocrisy knows no bounds .

 

[Wrangler]

8 There is none like Thee among the gods, O Lord, And like Thy works there are none.

Would David compare angels to God?

Angels are called sons of God in the Bible. Not god's.

Don’t you realize v8 is affirming the existence of REAL-lowercase gods?

You are taking the converse of the point being made. No created Being is like the Creator, YHWH. Yet, there are many lowercase lords and gods, as v8 affirms.

 

[Angel Faith]

Don’t you realize v8 is affirming the existence of REAL-lowercase gods?

You are taking the converse of the point being made. No created Being is like the Creator, YHWH. Yet, there are many lowercase lords and gods, as v8 affirms.

That's not what you asserted earlier. You said that Psalm chapter tells us angels are gods.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The contradiction is doctrinal in nature, because all translation of Scripture is doctrinal, not just grammatical.

It is impossible to translate the ancient language strictly grammatical, because the ancient Greek was always written in capital letters.

BINGO! Guess who can have a field day with that license...? Doctrine will dictate translation more so than grammar. YEP.

No one is saying that 'god' or 'gods' can't be an accurate doctrinal translation, because any translation of God and Lord, vs god and lord, is always doctrinal.

And so, Any doctrinal translation that says the Word was a god, will contradict itself, when also saying that any such god or gods are no gods at all.

Can we see what the Greek says then? Leaving doctrine aside, what does the Greek actually say?

"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos." (MOUNCE INTERLINEAR)

If the readers look closely at that little word "ho"....it means "the" and it was used to identify Yahweh when the Jews had ceased using the divine name. We use it in the same sense when we want to identify someone who might have the same name as someone famous.
If for example, you read on an invitation to a lecture that Brad Pitt was the speaker, wouldn't you ask...."is that THE Brad Pitt?"
"THE God" is "HO THEOS" whereas ho logos was "WITH" "HO THEOS", he wasn't" ho theos" but simply THEOS.

Without the definite article in John 1:1 Jesus is NOT "HO THEOS"...."THE GOD" Yahweh.

How is that word used in other scripture?
Jesus' own statement to the Jews who were accusing him of blasphemy indicated that even humans are called "theos" (gods).....look again for that little word 'ho", and see who was "HO THEOS" (the God) and who was just "THEOS" (a god) a divine mighty one....

"The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai them autos, · ho “ Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en · ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘ I egō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘ gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai— and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō · ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘ You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ‘ I am eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos’?

Are you seeing what I am seeing? There are other "gods" mentioned there and it is Yahweh himself who is calling the judges in Israel (who represented him) "gods".

See that when the Father and son are mentioned in the same passage of scripture, there is a clear difference between them. Only Yahweh is called "ho theos" (THE Gods) whilst Jesus is referred to by the word without the definite article as Strongs describes the meaning of "theos".
Can you give me an excuse as why that little word, which changes the whole meaning of John 1:1 was deliberately left out in the English translation? "Doctrine"...that's exactly what swayed the translators. But we can see that it isn't what the Bible says in Greek.

Strongs primary definition of "theos" is...
"a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".....so you do not have a Greek leg to stand on in this argument.....the NWT renders it correctly. Jesus is never once called "ho theos".

You say Jesus is a god. You preach there be gods like Him

Read Jesus' own words....if the word "theos" describes those who were divinely authorized by his Father, then Jesus fits that description.
John 1:1 when translated "doctrinally" promotes a lie. Translated grammatically...it is truth...plain and simple.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This attack upon the diety of Christ has went viral as of late
due to the fact they must break JESUS Down into just another prophet

No one is 'breaking Jesus down to just another prophet'...he was the "prophet like Moses" who was prophesied to come and was clearly said to be Jesus. (Deuteronomy 18:18; John 6:14; Acts 7:37)

He is also called a "High Priest" as well as an "apostle"....so the Christ has many roles....and many names. (Hebrews 3:1)

Hebrews 1:1-4 KJV...
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."

Read this scripture carefully.....and then answer these questions....
1) Who appointed Jesus as "heir of all things" and how is it possible for God to inherit things from God?
2) What does it mean when he says "by whom he made the worlds".....?
Who made what, by whom?
3) Does being the express "image" of someone, make you the same person as them?
4) "Sitting down on the right hand of majesty on high....being made much better than the angels" indicates what if Jesus and his Father are one being?
5) In what way can God inherit a name more excellent than the angels?

Please explain.....using scripture.

so as they can make him just one prophet among the other false religions prophets .
I MEAN if JESUS really IS who HE IS , THEN NO way can the other religions be valid .

He was never "just one prophet among the other false prophets"...what an absurd statement!
He was the "son of God" which is what he called himself. Jesus really is who HE said he was, not who Christendom says he was. (John 10:31-36)

AND no way can they be worshipping GOD either . THEY attack the diety cause they desired the one world religion .

We worship the same God that Jesus worshipped.....he did not worship himself.
The "one world religion" we desire is the one prophesied in the Bible...the one that all true Christians will carry out after Jesus deals with the false religious supporters of this world. Why are there "few" on the road to life do you think? (Matthew 7:13-14; 21-23)

Its a mess cause ROME actually leads in it . Hyprocrisy knows no bounds .

You are not wrong! Hypocrisy is alive and well and living in those who try to teach what the Bible never did.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Angels aren't god's.

Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים, romanized: ʾĔlōhīm: [(ʔ)eloˈ(h)im]), the plural of אֱלוֹהַּ‎ (ʾĔlōah), is a Hebrew word meaning "gods". Although the word is plural, in the Hebrew Bible it usually takes a singular verb and refers to a single deity,[1][2][3][4] particularly (but not always) the God of Israel.[1][2][3][4][5][6] At other times it refers to deities in the plural.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

Elohim - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

According to Strongs Concordance, the plural 'ĕlōhîm means.....

1. rulers, judges
2. divine ones
3. angels
4. gods

So angels are called "gods" ('ĕlōhîm Hebrew, theos Greek) in scripture as are human judges in Israel, as God's representatives. (John 10:31-36)
"Theos" (Greek) is not a word used in the NT just for Yahweh. It can mean any divine, or divinely authorized personage.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The contradiction is doctrinal in nature, because all translation of Scripture is doctrinal, not just grammatical.

It is impossible to translate the ancient language strictly grammatical, because the ancient Greek was always written in capital letters.

No one is saying that 'god' or 'gods' can't be an accurate doctrinal translation, because any translation of God and Lord, vs god and lord, is always doctrinal.

And so, Any doctrinal translation that says the Word was a god, will contradict itself, when also saying that any such god or gods are no gods at all.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Nevertheless, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those who are not really gods.

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

And so we see that any such translation, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself doctrinally elsewhere, by also saying that making christ a god, is to reject both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

Your own doctrinal translation of Jesus being a god, also says that god is not really a god.

This proves what I have learned from you people: you don't really care about whether Jesus is God, or is a god, because you don't even take your own translation seriously.

All you people care about, is doing away with a tormenting hell and lake of fire for souls of wicked men.

All the translation and divinity of Christ arguments, are just sideshows to immerse yourself in pseudo-scholarship.

If there were a translation that has Jesus as Lord and God, and does not teach a hell of torment for wicked souls, then you would promote that.

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name.

What you really need to do, is to come up with your own translation, that does away with these verses, because your NWT isn't getting the job done.

Such as:

And the smoke of their torment ascends at all times, day and night, and there is no rest on earth, for those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name.

There. I have done away with tormenting lake of fire forever and ever.

Happy now?

I actually think it has to do with honesty Robert.

 

[Wrangler]

That's not what you asserted earlier. You said that Psalm chapter tells us angels are gods.

Indeed. Angels compromise the Heavenly Council don’t they?

 

[HIM]

The NWT contradicts itself by translating John 1:1 as the Word was a god, because it does accurately translate several other Scripture, that declare there is no such thing as any god, really being a god:

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

Nevertheless, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those who are not really gods.

By their own translation, they make a god of the Word, and so a god unto themselves, which they also declare cannot really be a god at all.

A natural translation of the text show that most translation are bias. It plainly states "And God was the Word" Not and the word was a god or the word was God. Meaning they are the same not two.

 

[Wrangler]

I actually think it has to do with honesty Robert.

Agreed. Self-deception is the hardest to overcome.

And so we see that any such translation, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself doctrinally elsewhere, by also saying that making christ a god, is to reject both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not sure how you make that connection. Putting aside Jesus for a moment, don't you agree that everything from God has authority, be it his literal words or a messenger he sends on his behalf?

It seems to me that you are so devout to your idolatry that you deny the clear principle of agency in Scripture. You may recall a couple of years ago there was a thread that took a deep dive into who was talking to Moses at the burning bush and who destroyed Sodom and Gomorra? There are verses that support both angels and God. So, how is this reconciled?

One option is to conclude that angels are also God. Another option, which I believe is the correct interpretation is agency. Agents of God act with his authority. It does not make them God.

The same thing with God's literal words. It has a authority, which by definition, makes it a god. But that does not make the literal words God spoke to be YHWH himself. Moreover, it does not make those who say God's word to be YHWH themselves. That's just crazy talk!

What do you make of Acts 2:36, God made Jesus both Lord and Messiah? Why would such verses exist in Scripture if your take on this were correct? I submit they would not exist and therefore, your take is incorrect.

 

[Wrangler]

A natural translation of the text show that most translation are bias. It plainly states "And God was the Word" Not and the word was a god or the word was God. Meaning they are the same not two.

Not familiar with figurative language?

 

[HIM]

Not familiar with figurative language?

To say something like this is figurative is subjective and does not answer the point being made objectively. Quit simply God spoke and He is what He spoke. And His Word is life because God is Life. Just as Genesis states, God said, and it was so.

The connective καὶ is used throughout the text which shows what is about to be said is connected to what was previously stated. In other words God in the clause, "God was the Word" is the God mentioned in the clause, "and the word is with the God". Not two, one.


(John 1:1 [TRi])
Ἐν In 'The' ἀρχῇ Beginning ἦν Was ὁ The λόγος Word, καὶ And ὁ The λόγος Word ἦν Was πρὸς With τὸν θεόν God, καὶ And θεὸς God ἦν Was ὁ The λόγος Word.

 

[amigo de christo]

God gave lucifer great gifts . God has also called us gods . But my advice is
we better not make OURSELVES the focus on this . Cause pride got lucifer booted out .
We have even been called kings and priests , by again my advice is dont make self the focus .
REMEMBER THE ONE TRUE GOD , REMEMBER THE ONE TRUE HIGH PREIST , REMEMBER THE KING of Kings .
HE SURE WALKED HUMBLY . My advice is we had better do the same
and beware of this KINGS KIDS mentality junk and this lil god junk . THEY have become enamoured with them own selves .
SIMPLY LEARN CHRIST .