How to Authentically Speak in Tongues

[Nancy]

"The Pentecostal and Charismatic movement will tell you that they have a gift that you dont have........and then they will tell you that this gift is proof of Salvation."

So agreed here. Think of those who are new to, or weak in the faith and have not been given the gift of tongues. Makes one wonder how many have bought into this and condemned themselves by thinking they are not saved, or even have His Spirit.

I do believe the gift of true tongues is to spread the gospel to those who do not understand your native language.

Why do some focus on this one thing when it is in the same list as...

Mark:17-18
"17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

Anybody drink poison lately? shake off a venomous snake? Healed the sick lately?

There is a lot more to this ONE single issue of tongues, as it is in the same list as all the others so, why is this such a pet subject with so many to the detriment of all the other things mentioned, in the same verses, of those who are to show signs of belief?

1 Corinthians 14:1–33
"14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

These beliefs that one is not saved unless they speak in tongues IMHO, has turned many away from God as, they do not think they are saved because they were taught they had to speak in tongues as PROOF they are saved. Sad.

 

[Berserk]

Christ4Me; "That reference is Paul giving an exaggerated sense to show how important love is or rather not having love in spite of tongues of angels.
1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

There is not a shred of evidence that Paul is speaking hyperbolically in 13:1. On the contrary, "zealots of (angelic) spirits" (14:12) shows that he is speaking literally. Contemporary Jews believed godly men could understand angelic speech.

More importantly, the next Christian prophetic work after Revelation is the Shepherd of Hermas (c. 106 AD). besides 1 Cor. 12-14, Mandate 11 of Hermas is the only other early Christian discussion of the proper way to exercise prophetic gifts in public worship. Ecstatic prophetic speech is identified as angel speech, just as in 1 Cor. 13:1 and 14:12:
"The angel of the prophetic Spirit rests on him, and fills the man,...and the man speaks to the congregation as the Lord wills (Hermas Mandates 11:9).

Christ4Me: "As for your imposed translation into the text (14:12). One can say the same thing about demon, right?"

Duh, Paul is talking here about the Corinthians' self-understanding and they aren't "zealots for demons;" they think their zeal for "spirits" is godly."
So they must be "zealots for (angelic) spirits," since being zealots for human "spirits" would make no sense.

Christ4Me: "May I ask you why at the beginning that you had doubted you were saved before you had that supernatural experience?"

I didn't doubt I was "saved," I doubted that Jesus was a Savior because I was battling the growing feeling that the Bible contained no divine revelation. btw, why did you falsely claim I believed that speaking in tongues was a condition for becoming a Christian? What convinced me was the Shekinal glory of God that descended on me and, a witness said, made my face shine in the dark just as Moses' face did on Mount Sinai.[/QUOTE]

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me said: ↑
That reference is Paul giving an exaggerated sense to show how important love is or rather not having love in spite of tongues of angels.
1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

There is not a shred of evidence that Paul is speaking hyperbolically in 13:1. On the contrary, "zealots of (angelic) spirits" (14:12) shows that he is speaking literally. Contemporary Jews believed godly men could understand angelic speech.

When you take it in context where in verse 3 he sells everything he had and give to the poor, and gives his body to be burned, what do you call that when obviously, Paul is still alive writing this epistle? 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

More importantly, the next Christian prophetic work after Revelation is the Shepherd of Hermas (c. 106 AD). besides 1 Cor. 12-14, Mandate 11 of Hermas is the only other early Christian discussion of the proper way to exercise prophetic gifts in public worship. Ecstatic prophetic speech is identified as angel speech, just as in 1 Cor. 13:1 and 14:12:
"The angel of the prophetic Spirit rests on him, and fills the man,...and the man speaks to the congregation as the Lord wills (Hermas Mandates 11:9).

The Shepherd of Hermas is not accepted as scripture, brother. And you never testified to an angel descending on you for you to speak in tongues or speak to the assembly. Why bother when the angel can just give the message himself? They have done it before so why possess people to do it now? Indeed, why speak in angelic speech to the congregation since nobody understands angelic language? Seems the shepherds understood the angels announcing the birth of the Savior quite well that night.

When the Holy Spirit in us can do a way better job of speaking for the Lord, and Him being in us since salvation is why angelic possession is bogus to give a message to the congregation in "angelic speech".

Bogus works which is probably why it was dismissed.

 

[Berserk]

Nancy: "The Pentecostal and Charismatic movement will tell you that they have a gift that you dont have........and then they will tell you that this gift is proof of Salvation...These beliefs that one is not saved unless they speak in tongues IMHO, has turned many away from God as, they do not think they are saved because they were taught they had to speak in tongues as PROOF Sad."

You are resorting to false stereotypes to defame a movement you don't understand and whose gifts you have never experienced. I grew up in the Pentecostal movement and have never even heard the nonsense you spew here! Such comments stem from a marginal few.

Nancy: "I do believe the gift of true tongues is to spread the gospel to those who do not understand your native language."

No non-charismatic academic commentary on the Book of Acts or 1 Corinthians would agree with you. Tongues has nothing to do with spreading the Gospel. In fact, the Greek word "glossai" (tongues) need not even mean "human languages."

Nancy: "Why do some focus on this one thing?"

Well, would you want to experience awe and wonder far sweeter and more beautiful than the birth of your first child and a continuous inflow of wave after wave of liquid love many times sweeter and more intense than anything you've ever experienced? My tongues experience so transformed my mind that I became the highest ranked senior in the province of Manitoba. I have the photo on my mantle of the premier acknowledging that fact at my graduation. And prior to that experience, I was pretty much an average student. Would you want an experience like mine, the memory of which nourishes your spirit every day and helps you get through the dark times?

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me; "That reference is Paul giving an exaggerated sense to show how important love is or rather not having love in spite of tongues of angels.
1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

There is not a shred of evidence that Paul is speaking hyperbolically in 13:1. On the contrary, "zealots of (angelic) spirits" (14:12) shows that he is speaking literally. Contemporary Jews believed godly men could understand angelic speech.

1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." < ----- How about the ending of the verse?

More importantly, the next Christian prophetic work after Revelation is the Shepherd of Hermas (c. 106 AD). besides 1 Cor. 12-14, Mandate 11 of Hermas is the only other early Christian discussion of the proper way to exercise prophetic gifts in public worship. Ecstatic prophetic speech is identified as angel speech, just as in 1 Cor. 13:1 and 14:12:
"The angel of the prophetic Spirit rests on him, and fills the man,...and the man speaks to the congregation as the Lord wills (Hermas Mandates 11:9).

The Shepherd of Hermas is not accepted as scripture, brother. And you never testified to an angel descending on you for you to speak in tongues or speak to the assembly. Why bother when the angel can just give the message himself? They have done it before so why possess people to do it now? Indeed, why speak in angelic speech to the congregation since nobody understands angelic language? Seems the shepherds understood the angels announcing the birth of the Savior quite well that night.

When the Holy Spirit in us can do a way better job of speaking for the Lord, and Him being in us since salvation is why angelic possession is bogus to give a message to the congregation in "angelic speech".

Bogus works which is probably why it was dismissed.

Christ4Me: "As for your imposed translation into the text (14:12). One can say the same thing about demon, right?"

Duh, Paul is talking here about the Corinthians' self-understanding and they aren't "zealots for demons;" they think their zeal for "spirits" is godly."So they must be "zealots for (angelic) spirits," since being zealots for human "spirits" would make no sense.

Just citing an example for why you should not automatically assume it was angels or angelic spirits but spiritual gifts if you bothered to read that in context for the rest of that reply..

Christ4Me: "May I ask you why at the beginning that you had doubted you were saved before you had that supernatural experience?"

I didn't doubt I was "saved," I doubted that Jesus was a Savior because I was battling the growing feeling that the Bible contained no divine revelation. btw, why did you falsely claim I believed that speaking in tongues was a condition for becoming a Christian? What convinced me was the Shekinal glory of God that descended on me and, a witness said, made my face shine in the dark just as Moses' face did on Mount Sinai.

Because your testimony can be used by those who teach that false belief. I had explained why in reply but I shall quote the 2nd post for you to here.

Berserk says "At age 16 I was becoming increasingly skeptical about biblical inspiration and the authenticity of the gifts of the Spirit. I asked myself if the conversions were ever genuine in our weekly Sunday evening evangelistic service...."

You were doubting those who came forward were genuinely converted, yes? Why? Because of lack of the gifts of the spirit which is your theme here? And yet you did not have them pursue this course you took, so why unless you doubted yourself also?

Berserk says "Then something truly magical happened: suddenly I sensed the Spirit's presence and my prayers, petitions, and praise just spontaneously flowed from my mind, effortlessly and joyfully. This delight in the Lord's presence lasted for hours...."

Feeling any presence of a spirit outside of you is the spirit of the antichrist. 1 John 4:4 Your body is the temple of the holy Spirit now since you had believed in Jesus Christ; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 & Matthew 9:17

That is the huge difference between the Old Testament and the Shekinah glory where His Presence is felt & seen at the Temple to Hi dwelling in us by faith in Jesus Christ under the New Covenant where we can worship God any where by coming to the Father by the only way of the son in worship. As it is, your focus was on the holy Spirit and the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take the spotlight off of the son in worship to be felt around you, so a seducing spirit came in to come in between you & the Son, the Bridegroom.

Berserk says "In retrospect I realize that what the Lord eventually empowered me to do was "pray in the Spirit (Eph. 6:18; Jude 20)." My prayer had become effortless and spontaneous because the Spirit had come upon me to direct my prayers. Such Spirit-directed praying would serve me well when, a few months later, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues on what was by far the most beautiful, transformative, and memorable day of my life! I will describe that experience in my next planned post."

I understood this event as the same as referring to the second comment as in retrospect, unless you wish to clarify that.

As it appears you were saying, you seem to refer to that initial phenomenon encounter as when you got baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues and all of this pursuit was started by doubting those who went forward were truly converted. Indirectly, it seems like you were doubting yourself that you were converted for you to share that moment as baptism with the holy Ghost as if you had not the Holy Ghost before.

Anyway, if you had not doubted you were saved, why mention doubting the conversions of others and yet in resolving your crisis of faith, you pursued a course that winded up with you receiving the baptism with the holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. yes?

So without saying so, you are giving a testimony that can be unwittingly used by those who preach that false teaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the holy Spirit and you are not saved". It would be hard for you to stop them from using your testimony even if you say you do not really believe that or teach it, but one has to wonder what all of this testimony for? Not a result of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God has raised Him from the dead, right? You set out to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign, doubting He was in you as promised when you had first believed at the calling of the gospel or otherwise why seek Him then?

 

[Berserk]

Christ4Me: "When you take it in context"

You don't understand how Bible scholars establish relevant "context." In this case the only question of whether Paul elsewhere clarifies what he and the Corinthians mean by "tongues of angels." So when we learn that the Corinthians are "zealots of (angelic) spirits" (14:12) and that angel inspired angelic speech is a standard understanding of ecstatic prophetic gifts in the early church, the issue of context become moot.


Christ4Me: "The Shepherd of Hermas is not accepted as scripture, brother."

You fundamentalists are oblivious of the need to understand the cultural and religious background of NT texts in order to understand them. So you are reduced to eisegeting bogus modern understandings into the NT text. The noncanonical status of Hermas is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it confirms Paul's understanding of tongues as angel-inspired speech (1 Cor. 14:12).

Christ4Me: "When the Holy Spirit in us can do a way better job of speaking for the Lord, and Him being in us since salvation is why angelic possession is bogus to give a message to the congregation in "angelic speech".

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to experience the Spirit, even in His regenerating work. I shall elaborate in a future post on this thread.

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me: "When you take it in context"

You don't understand how Bible scholars establish relevant "context." In this case the only question of whether Paul elsewhere clarifies what he and the Corinthians mean by "tongues of angels." So when we learn that the Corinthians are "zealots of (angelic) spirits" (14:12) and that angel inspired angelic speech is a standard understanding of ecstatic prophetic gifts in the early church, the issue of context become moot.

It is not moot when Paul goes on to give more extreme examples of believers doing extreme things and yet have not love, they are nothing and it avails them nothing.

Christ4Me: "The Shepherd of Hermas is not accepted as scripture, brother."

You fundamentalists are oblivious of the need to understand the cultural and religious background of NT texts in order to understand them. So you are reduced to eisegeting bogus modern understandings into the NT text. The noncanonical status of Hermas is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it confirms Paul's understanding of tongues as angel-inspired speech (1 Cor. 14:12).

Tell me how what is being described in that Book is not found in the occult here; Prophets of Baal, Fake Healers and BIBLE MAGIC

Christ4Me: "When the Holy Spirit in us can do a way better job of speaking for the Lord, and Him being in us since salvation is why angelic possession is bogus to give a message to the congregation in "angelic speech".

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to experience the Spirit, even in His regenerating work. I shall elaborate in a future post on this thread.

Now you are just separating yourself from not just me but every other member in the body of Christ as if you have something nobody else has.

I am telling you that you had been saved when you had first believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel before that phenomenon. Thing is, you went astray, moving away from your rest in Jesus Christ, seeking to receive the holy Spirit by a sign. In effect, like going out to the market seeking to be filled for why you are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes.

I hope everyone reading this will pray for Brother Berserk. He needs to return to His first love & chase no more after the Holy Spirit for a sign.

 

[Berserk]

Christ4Me: "So basically...you pursued a false teaching about "unless one speaks in tongues, they do not have the Holy spirit and therefore you are not saved"?

Why do you so often LIE by willfully distorting views you find threatening because your own experience of the Spirit is so impoverished? Speaking in tongues is a second work of grace after the regenerating work of the Spirit. P

Christ4Me: "I hope everyone reading this will pray for Brother Berserk. He needs to return to His first love & chase no more after the Holy Spirit for a sign."

Spirit baptism with the evidence of tongues provides an experience far deeper and more precious than the more rudimentary "first love" you speak of. I don't "chase after the Holy Spirit for a sign;" I just feast on His Presence awash in gratitude for His grace and power.

Christ4Me: "What you are describing next is why the apostle John says not to believe every spirit but test them & the tongues they bring in 1 John 4:1-6. This magical can be found in Khundalini, an eastern mysticism, voodooism, the occult, idolatries in the days of the Roman empire, and cults in Christianity, even the ones you consider not His Church for why you should test the spirits and the tongues they bring. I

LOL, you are condemning what you have never experienced--an awe and wonder more awesome than the birth of your first child, the sweetest and most gratitude-producing experience of wave after wave of ever intensifying agape love that you have ever experienced, an experience so powerful you can regularly draw spiritual nourishment for many decades thereafter. You response is reminiscent of the spectators on the Day of Pentecost who thought the 120 Christian tongues speakers were drunk!

Christ4Me: "If it is gibberish nonsense and not a foreign language of men to speak unto the people, then that is the supernatural tongue that the world has been speaking in before Pentecost."
You don't realize that Paul encourages self-edifying private tongues (1 Cor. 4:4, 28) and it is this prayer tongues that he has in mind when he gushes, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all (14:18)."

Christ4Me: "The real indwelling Holy Spirit is in us by faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus has said that is how we will know Him from the spirits that the world receives by feeling it."

Nope! You don't understand that receiving the Spirit is more than a mere act of faith; it is a memorable experience of divine power. In another post I will demonstrate this for you in a comprehensive survey of Paul's teaching on the Spirit. This regenerating work of the Spirit is of course prior to the exercise of gifts like speaking in tongues. You flee to the Gospel of John and 1 John so that you don't have to come to terms with Paul's teaching on the regenerating experience of the Spirit.

It is better to know what you had prayed for normally so you can know you got an answer to prayer to give the father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers than only assume what that tongue is doing; be it self edification, praising God in worship, or the Holy Spirit is praying which I have to say because you are assuming it is for private use, it cannot be of Him at all because you do not know what that tongue is doing.

God is not the author of confusion but tongues for private use is the author of confusion as gained by an extra notable phenomenon long after you had been saved when you had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel.

Christ4Me: "I remind you of what you did to that Lutheran believer in tapping him lightly on the head and he broke out in tongues and so I point you to this guy as he seems to be having that kind of influence in giving that phenomenon of holy laughter to those around him."

As usual, you distort what I said. There was no "holy laughter;" he was just overpowered by the Holy Spirit, despite his unbelief in tongues, and quietly and peacefully drunk in the Spirit as he was given joyful utterance.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

[QUOTE="Bob Carabbio, post: 1233717, member: 7227"

BUT a couple of weeks later, in a FGBMFI Dinner meeting during "worship", a strange word came into my mind - so I spoke it, and words began to simply flow as I spoke them, and I realized that this was "Tongues". That was 1973. The words are still there, and I can speak them for as long as I please.

That's not "tongues'".
THat's a prayer language.

"tongues' are the God given GIFT of the Spirit = to be able to speak a "tongue" that is "unknown" to you for the benefit of someone who can't understand your language.[/QUOTE]

Chuckle!!! That's the "HYPER-Legalistic" version, of course.

OF COURSE IT'S "Tongues" if it's a language that God gifts you with. And it IS a "Prayer language", when you're not burdened to speak it AS A MESSAGE TO A CONGREGATION. Same exact Gift, different application under different circumstances. ANd Prophesy and Interpretation are also essentially "Tongues", since the Holy Spirit is supplying the words, and the person is just SPEAKING what he's given (hopefully without human enhancement).

The AG got in all sorts of trouble early in the game, sending out missionary folks in the belief that when they encountered people who's language they didn't know, The Holy Spirit would miraculously allow them to speak their language. He Didn't (although on record, there are occasions when He did).

Also on record:
Speaking in the Common language, and being HEARD in one or more different languages.
Speaking a language understood by a listener, often even in the proper regional accent.

Most Common:
Speakng in a tongue NOBODY understands, but which is INTERPRETED by either the tongues speaker, or by another(s).

Read 1 Cor 14 for clarification - bearing in mind that Paul was correcting a problem in Corinth where folks were apparently blatting in their "Prayer language" just to show off. IF the Holy Spirit burdens a person to speak in a "tongue" to a congregation, He's already lined up the "Interpreter(s)" to take over when the tongues speaker finishes. He NEVER says their "tongues" were "Phony", but corrects their use IN THE MEETING CONTEXT.

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me: "So basically...you pursued a false teaching about "unless one speaks in tongues, they do not have the Holy spirit and therefore you are not saved"?

Why do you so often LIE by willfully distorting views you find threatening because your own experience of the Spirit is so impoverished?

It is a lie to believe you can receive the holy Spirit again after you have been born again of the Spirit for believing in Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The tradition below exposes the lie above.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Speaking in tongues is a second work of grace after the regenerating work of the Spirit. P

Where had you explained that in the opening of your posts in this thread?

Plus, how is it you are not aware of how this second work of grace, sometimes called the second blessing, doesn't stop there? That you can keep on being filled by the "holy Ghost" or receiving the "Holy Ghost even after the second blessing? Can you see why the foolish virgins are still out to the market seeking to be continually filled even afterwards for why they were not ready to go when the Bridegroom had come? Matthew 25:1-13

Christ4Me: "I hope everyone reading this will pray for Brother Berserk. He needs to return to His first love & chase no more after the Holy Spirit for a sign."

 

[Christ4Me]

Spirit baptism with the evidence of tongues provides an experience far deeper and more precious than the more rudimentary "first love" you speak of. I don't "chase after the Holy Spirit for a sign;" I just feast on His Presence awash in gratitude for His grace and power.

Your extra encounter defies the promise given to us by Jesus Christ for why we would never seek to fill our hunger nor thirst after salvation.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Christ4Me: "What you are describing next is why the apostle John says not to believe every spirit but test them & the tongues they bring in 1 John 4:1-6. This magical can be found in Khundalini, an eastern mysticism, voodooism, the occult, idolatries in the days of the Roman empire, and cults in Christianity, even the ones you consider not His Church for why you should test the spirits and the tongues they bring. I

LOL, you are condemning what you have never experienced--an awe and wonder more awesome than the birth of your first child, the sweetest and most gratitude-producing experience of wave after wave of ever intensifying agape love that you have ever experienced, an experience so powerful you can regularly draw spiritual nourishment for many decades thereafter. You response is reminiscent of the spectators on the Day of Pentecost who thought the 120 Christian tongues speakers were drunk!

His disciples were officially saved at Pentecost because that is what Jesus had promised that they would receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost when He was no longer present with them and had gone to Gd the Father above.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ....

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That means the Holy Spirit that Jesus gave Himself while on earth to His disciples, including Judas Iscariot in Matthew 10:1-4 & in John 20:22 was not the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost sent by the Father because Jesus was still with them.

The church, starting with those 120 disciples, was born on Pentecost with them as saved believers in Jesus Christ.

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me: "If it is gibberish nonsense and not a foreign language of men to speak unto the people, then that is the supernatural tongue that the world has been speaking in before Pentecost."

You don't realize that Paul encourages self-edifying private tongues (1 Cor. 4:4, 28) and it is this prayer tongues that he has in mind when he gushes, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all (14:18)."

Let's put it in this way. If Paul is praying for someone to interpret that tongue being manifested in the assembly so he can understand it and that tongue be fruitful to himself, then there is no self edification being done by tongues for private use when there is no way for him to understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself unless someone else was there to interpret, thus tongues is not a stand alone gift at all for private use.

Christ4Me: "The real indwelling Holy Spirit is in us by faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus has said that is how we will know Him from the spirits that the world receives by feeling it."

Nope! You don't understand that receiving the Spirit is more than a mere act of faith; it is a memorable experience of divine power. In another post I will demonstrate this for you in a comprehensive survey of Paul's teaching on the Spirit.

Still coming off as "I have something most Christians do not have." You are separating yourself from the believers that did not experience that "second blessing". Not sure how you can prevent yourself from thinking higher than you ought to think in regards to that.

 

[Christ4Me]

This regenerating work of the Spirit is of course prior to the exercise of gifts like speaking in tongues. You flee to the Gospel of John and 1 John so that you don't have to come to terms with Paul's teaching on the regenerating experience of the Spirit.

Flee? Scripture cannot go against scripture for why I am showing how you are not rightly dividing the word of truth in Paul's words. Even Peter says the same thing;

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

The irony is that when believers move away from their resting place in Christ Jesus, to forget their first love, and hunger for more of God by chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign, they lose self control and fall in these apostate movements of the spirits.

It is better to know what you had prayed for normally so you can know you got an answer to prayer to give the father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers than only assume what that tongue is doing; be it self edification, praising God in worship, or the Holy Spirit is praying which I have to say because you are assuming it is for private use, it cannot be of Him at all because you do not know what that tongue is doing.

God is not the author of confusion but tongues for private use is the author of confusion as gained by an extra notable phenomenon long after you had been saved when you had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel.

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me: "I remind you of what you did to that Lutheran believer in tapping him lightly on the head and he broke out in tongues and so I point you to this guy as he seems to be having that kind of influence in giving that phenomenon of holy laughter to those around him."

As usual, you distort what I said. There was no "holy laughter;" he was just overpowered by the Holy Spirit, despite his unbelief in tongues, and quietly and peacefully drunk in the Spirit as he was given joyful utterance.

I'd say we are always filled with the Holy Spirit since salvation, Matthew 9:17 but not always filled with the fruits of the Spirit, especially when sowing to the works of the flesh.

If you believe the lie that you can continuously be filled with the Person of the Holy Spirit, then God will permit that strong deluson to occur by removing the restraining part of the holy Spirit away, to suffer those thieves to break through and cause you to fall.

I know that some excuse the chaos and confusion in holy laughter as receiving the fruit of joy, but joy is the fruit of the spirit and drunkenness is a work of the flesh and they cannot be the same when temperance which is self control, is also a fruit of the Spirit. A house divided cannot stand but fall. Therefore joy is joy, and we are in self control as filled with all the fruits of the Holy Spirit for why drunkenness is not of Him at all but of the flesh.

 

[Behold]

C tongues is not a stand alone gift therefore it cannot be for private use if it needs interpretation in the assembly for the tongue speaker to understand it to be fruitful to the tongue speaker himself. That means he is not edified until interpreted.

The Gift of "tongues" is a foreign language that you never learned to speak, that God gives you the ability to speak fluently.
Will you understand it, as you speak it? Of course......its not "unknown", its known.
When Peter was given this gift in Acts 2, He understood what He was saying as if he had always known the language.
If you read the chapter it says they heard in their Language, as Peter was speaking it.
It does not say that someone had to interpret what Peter was given as the gift of tongues.

See, you can't preach in an unknown tongue, as you would not know what you are saying.
So, the preacher understands this "tongue" this foreign language Gift of the Spirit, exactly as the hearer understands it.

See, the verse says......the gift of "TONGUES"......not the gift of the "unknown tongue".

 

[Christ4Me]

The Gift of "tongues" is a foreign language that you never learned to speak, that God gives you the ability to speak fluently.
Will you understand it, as you speak it? Of course......its not "unknown", its known.
When Peter was given this gift in Acts 2, He understood what He was saying as if he had always known the language.

It sounds reasonable and plausible but I disagree for the simple truth that Paul had to pray that another would interpret that tongue so he would understand that tongue and be fruitful to himself, while speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Ghost.

If you read the chapter it says they heard in their Language, as Peter was speaking it.
It does not say that someone had to interpret what Peter was given as the gift of tongues.

No one had to interpret when the Holy Spirit was manifesting tongues to speak to foreigners in their native tongue in outreach ministry. This was not done in the church where not every one is understanding what was being said, including the tongue speaker, until it was interpreted.

See, you can't preach in an unknown tongue, as you would not know what you are saying.
So, the preacher understands this "tongue" this foreign language Gift of the Spirit, exactly as the hearer understands it.

See, the verse says......the gift of "TONGUES"......not the gift of the "unknown tongue".

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

I believe when Peter did speak, he had spoke in Galilean for why these foreigners were able to understand what Peter was saying as Peter did too.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"The Pentecostal and Charismatic movement will tell you that they have a gift that you dont have........and then they will tell you that this gift is proof of Salvation."

NO!!! No major Pentecostal or Charismatic denomination/Group (with the exception of the UPCI "Oneness" paradigmatics) ties "speaking in tongues" with being "Born Again" in any way!!!!

I do believe the gift of true tongues is to spread the gospel to those who do not understand your native language.

The Assemblies of God in the very beginning thought the same thing, and sent out missionaries with that belief. Of course it didn't work at all, and so many returned in disappointment, and started to LEARN the languages of the people that they wanted to evangelize.

Why do some focus on this one thing when it is in the same list as...

Anybody drink poison lately? shake off a venomous snake? Healed the sick lately?

Yup - there are snake handlers, and poison drinkers. And YES!! the sick are Healed (and more often they're not).

There is a lot more to this ONE single issue of tongues, as it is in the same list as all the others so, why is this such a pet subject with so many to the detriment of all the other things mentioned, in the same verses, of those who are to show signs of belief?

It's a simple fact that WHEN a person is "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" (to use Assembly of God vernacular), they will "speak in tongues" as an initial phenomenon. It was that way with me, but the real evidence that something was quite different was the sudden ability (and opportunities) to teach Bible to folks with unction from the Holy Spirit that I simply didn't have before.

Of Course I'd already been Born Again a decade earlier, so "Tongues never had anything to do with that, nor (except as mentioned above) does any other major full gospel denomination or group claim that it does.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

This is a frequent criticism, but what you need to do is explain to me WHY being edified by the Holy SPirit is a BAD thing. The more I am "Edified" the more ability to give ministry I have. Why do people go to seminaries, or Bible school if personal edification is BAD???

So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

It's called "The Gift of interpretation of tongues". It's often manifested in Full Gospel Churches. I've been burdened to interpret many times. The Holy SPirit feeds me the words, and I just speak them, until the flow stops.

 

[Berserk]

You will not find the word "glossolalia" in the Bible. It is glossa or glossais, meaning language or languages -- spoken human languages.

Enoch illustrates the godless need of fundamentalists who don't know Greek to mindlessly pontificate on what Greek words mean, using outdated and linguistically incompentence concordances to compensate for their ignorance. the massive articles of the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament delve into the secular Greek usage, the usage in Judaism and the OT, and the usage in the NT and early Christianity of all the spiritually relevant words in the NT. The lengthy article on "glossai" in vol. I makes the point that this word need not mean "human languages." In secular Greek usage "glossai" can mean not a human language, but "an expression which in speech or manner is strange or obscure and needs explanation...There are various kinds (12:10, 28; cf. 14:10); some are tongues of men and others of angels (13:1)." [pp. 720, 722].

In 14:12 Paul rightly views the Corinthians as "zealots of spirits" and therefore as utterers of the "tongues of angels" of 13:1. Hermas Mandates 11 (c. 105 AD) confirms this understanding of ecstatic prophetic gifts as angel speech.
Fundamentalists here have been led astray by the unique outburst of comprehensible human tongues in Acts 2. Its comprehensible nature prompts Peter to identify this speaking in tongues as the "prophesying" foretold in Joel 2 (see Acts 2:17). Elsewhere in Acts Luke carefully distinguishes tongues from prophesying (19:6) because the outbursts of tongues in Cornelius' household and at Ephesus are neither interpreted nor comprehensible languages to the speakers.

 

[n2thelight]

The next time true tongues will be spoken is from the below

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."


When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but
the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Anything other than this IMHO is pure babble

 

[Berserk]

n2theligt: The next time true tongues will be spoken is from the below
Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."
When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but
the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

This type of speech is never called speaking in tongues.
Mark 13:11 is fulfilled in the apostolic age and, as Spirit-inspired speech, it is not speaking in tongues. Read 1 Cor. 12 to learn of the other forms of Spirit-inspired speech.

n2thelight: Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.
Anything other than this IMHO is pure babble.

I just refuted this claim and you didn't even bother to read my thread! Sigh! Peter labels the tongues in Acts 2 as prophesying in fulfillment of Joel 2 precisely because the tongues were comprehensible. But he carefully distinguishes the prophesying from the tongues in other incidents in Acts (see 19:6) precisely because those incidents of tongues were neither comprehensible nor interpreted. By labelling Spirit-inspired speech "pure babble you are in danger of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.