When Paul is speaking in tongue as manifested by the Holy Ghost to speak unto others, it is unknown to himself for why he is praying that another interpret that tongue so he can understand it and that tongue can be beneficial to himself.
How to Authentically Speak in Tongues
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When Paul is speaking in tongue as manifested by the Holy Ghost to speak unto others, it is unknown to himself for why he is praying that another interpret that tongue so he can understand it and that tongue can be beneficial to himself.
Tongues cannot be for private use because then Christians will be seen as the same as the Pagan's supernatural tongue.
The odds of the one world religion coming about where they will be all united by that supernatural tongue in gibberish nonsense looks likely.
And that is your vision?
"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov. 29:18
What difference should it make to a believer what he is seen as by pagans?
What did God tell David to seek?
"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8
How has that changed for us?
Is it not God we are to please? What is your vision of God's plan? Are you also seeking His face?
The odds? Do suppose God ever gambles?
When they drew lots in the OT for God's direction, was there ever any doubt in God's mind what His direction was? Has that changed at all today? Do you see what He sees or have you looked around and then chosen your own pathway? Don't forget the verse I quoted from Jeremiah.
Does God's Way for us lie in avoiding a one world religion or in following His lead in everything? Again, what is your vision?
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:12
How does one get from that through a glass darkly to a face to face vision?
Do you suppose searching out and condemning any tongue talkers that don't fit your own vision will do it?
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
Brother Amadeus,
Do you believe that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit, and they are not saved?
If not, then why is the holy Spirit making intercessions only for believers that have tongues and not for everybody else?
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Now I ask you, how can that son of perdition, that beast, can unite all the world's religions, idolatries, and the occult in his one world religion? I remember a sinner mocking Bible prophesy that it could never happen but if they already speak in a supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense, I can see how easy it would be for the devil to unite all sinners under him as he will be able to make them all speak in tongues of gibberish nonsense.
Christians cannot believe that God's gift of tongues can be turned around from speaking unto the people to be for private use because that is conforming to the world's tongues of which you CANNOT separate from sinners that have that tongue.
You want to believe it is of God, and I am totally disagreeing with you for your sake. Those saints left behind will likely see the beast performing his supernatural powers over sinners and finally see that tongues for private use cannot be of Him.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
The fruit of the false prophet is being ecumenical in nature. The fact that it is spreading across the Christian churches, as uniting Catholics with other denominations while pending a universal unification of all beliefs in the world under the beast, ought to raise a red flag for you, God be willing.
2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
What is that lie? Believing you can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign for why Paul exposed that lie by reminding believers the tradition taught of us below.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Since sinners are experiencing the continual receiving of spirits after sensational signs in the flesh as well as tongues, it should not be hard to discern just how Satan can unite all sinners during the great tribulation by that sign of tongues.
May God cause the increase for I know I cannot.
My tongues is a gift from God, which not every person receives. But then... other people receive gifts which I do not.
I do not believe speaking in tongues is essential to salvation, but... if it were needed according to God would He not give it to a person when and if it were appropriate?
Why do you draw conclusions without facts?
Why does God give some people high, some average and some low IQs?
Why are some people born as males and others are born as females?
Why are some people called by God to preach or teach but not others?
"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." I Cor 12:8-11
Ask God why He does all of the things that He does the way that He does...
What is the purpose of God's Word?
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11
It is easy for the devil to manipulate anyone who is not on the Lord's side at all... or anyone who regularly is quenching the Spirit within. The devil cannot touch a person filled by the Spirit and always led by the Spirit. Don't give the devil more than his due!
My gifts of tongues from God is NOT "gibberish nonsense".
The carnal man does not separate that which is from God from that which is not. The separation is accomplished by His sheep who recognize His voice because they have the "ears to hear" about which Jesus speaks. Is this not a function of the Holy Spirit within...?
You have decided on this issue already. You believe you are right but according to what Solomon wrote so does everyone else. Do you ever quench the Holy Spirit in you?
I am not ecumenical, nor do I support such movements. I support being led by the Holy Spirit all of the time.
You keep on accusing me of believing things that I do not believe.
I agree with your final sentence. What a mighty God we serve!
In Paul's day pagans (e. g. Greek oracles) speak in tongues (gibberish) in order to have it interpreted. You can cite no example iin Paul's day of any pagan speaking in private tongues. And even if they did, so what? Private tongues raise the purity and passion of our praise to God and Jesus.
Paul himself refute you claim by celebrating the edifying value of private prayer tongues:
"He who speaks in tongues edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4)."
Paul wants believers to pray in tongues at home or, at least, not in a public meeting where outsiders are present:
"But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in church, but speak [in tongues] to himself and to God (14:28)."
If no outsiders are present, Paul approves of uninterpreted prayer tongues spoken in a group (Acts 19:6).
Paul wants every believer to pray privately in tongues and boasts that he does this all the time:
"I want you all to speak in tongues...I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you (14:5, 18)."
So Christ4Me, why are risking blaspheming against the Holy Spirit by opposing a gift that He wants to give you for self-edification?
The fact that Paul said he’d rather speak five words that are understood than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue, yet speaks in tongues more than anyone, proves he speaks in tongues in private a lot.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
No it doesn't, because you do not know what that tongue for private use is doing as you all claim that it can be for self edification, supposedly the Holy Spirit praying to God, and now to raise purity and passion of your praise to God & Jesus.
Paul said so in context of comparing tongues against prophesy for why prophesy is better; not how cool it is by itself when that same tongue needs to be interpreted to be understood by the tongue speaker so the tongue will be fruitful to himself, therefore never intended for private use.
That verse you had quoted refutes your application, brother, when you remove the bracketed words [ in tongues] which was added & inserted.
"But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in church, but speak to himself and to God (14:28)."
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. KJV
Read plainly like that requires discernment because people talking to themselves can be seen as a crazy person and so therefore Paul is saying when there is no interpretation, then it is a visiting foreigner speaking out of turn when you have one by one, of 2 or 3 speaking in tongues while another interpret in church service. The man is not speaking in tongues for why he is commanded to be silent in church as he was speaking out of turn, understanding what he is saying as God does because it is not God's gift of tongues.
That is how you understand the meaning in 1 Corinthians 14:2 about God's gift of tongues is one where the speaker does not understand it, albeit he speaks in mysteries, but God does. verse 2 is not conveying the tongue speaker is speaking TO God because there are no mysteries TO God.
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
That is Paul explaining why in being zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts as stated in verse 1 and he began to compare tongues against prophesy to show why prophesy is better because prophesy is a stand alone gift whereas tongues is not, needing interpretation. To be read any other way to mean tongues are for private use is ignoring the context of the message of what Paul is conveying, otherwise look at what you all are doing! Exalting tongues over prophesy to seek after as the complete opposite of Paul's exhortation!
When Paul having passed through the upper coasts, had come to Ephesus? Sounds like he was outside in public to me in coming across those certain disciples.
Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, that were disciples of John the Baptist's for why Paul told them about Jesus, then they got water baptized in His name and were saved, speaking in tongues as God was manifesting to speak unto the people around them in public.
You do not have Paul finding certain disciples, not knowing for sure what kind of disciples they were unless travelling in Ephesus when he came across them in "finding" them in public.
He said speak in tongues here, not pray in tongues.
Why are you overlooking the fact that the Holy Spirit can remind you of His words in English by bringing into remembrance all that Jesus has said?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
What need is there for self edification by tongues for private use because when uninterpreted, you cannot know if you are being self edified or the Holy Spirit supposedly praying or for some reason the Holy Spirit decides that it was time to give praise & passion in worshiping God?
Like it or not, God wants genuine worship, normal prayers, and thanksgiving for answers to known normal prayers coming from us rather than in confusion since you cannot know not what that tongue is doing therefore it is not of Him at all. I remind you God is not the author of confusion in any church of the saints for why we are to test the spirits and the tongues they bring per 1 John 4:1-6.
1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
@Berserk @amadeus
Paul knows not to testify to anything unless it can be verified by 2 or 3 witnesses.
2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Since Paul had 2 or 3 witnesses to verified that this was the third time coming to them, then how can he verified that he spoke in tongues more than them all, unless done in the church as verified by at least 2 or 3 witnesses in that church, at least. This is why he had to clarified that he would rather speak 5 words in the language he knows that they all understand rather than 10,000 words in tongues.
So in no way was Paul testifying to speaking in tongues privately as if more than them all for how can they verify that? Nobody. So Paul was never validating tongues for private use.
Indeed, if it was truly for private use, then why mention it in church at all other than to brag and exalt self over others that they have something not all believers have? Not a loving thing to do, makes God look like He is showing partiality among saved believers, and certainly does not edify the body of Christ but create schism. So why is this appearance of obvious evil not obvious to you for why you should shun that tongue?
Everyone is right to himself. However, not one who has not yet overcome as Jesus overcame is always right to God. Because of this it is necessary to go repeatedly to that lowest room empty allowing God to refill or fix or change as He sees the need. God forces no man to go there.
Give God the glory!
@Curtis @Berserk @Hidden In Him
May the Lord help you keep these verses in mind of what a false prophet is as being ecumenical in the world.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? KJV
Compare the 2 videos.
The irony is how this pastor below called it the Great Awakening in that video like that pastor above said about Khundalini being an awakening in the video.
Then there is this report from the 700 Club.
https://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/holy-laughter:-bringing-revival-to-the-church?
" "It's not confined to any one denomination or any one person,"says Sandy Miller, Vicar of Holy Trinity. "Quite the reverse. It's happening across the board-free churches, house churches, Church of England, established churches, all over the place." ~~ end of quote
The movement sure fooled the 700 Club.
So I am not picking on Pentecostals/Charismatics as I am about how those phenomenon comes about in all the churches when the focus is on the Holy Spirit.
They want to testify to changed lives, but what has changed for the Catholic Charismatic churches when they are still Catholics? I can see the only change they are talking about is the change that is also seen in Khundalini.
Remember the healing? I have seen where they cast out devils too. And they prophesy and all those other works, but guess what? Jesus says this for taking your eyes off of Him.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
By His grace, I am against putting the spotlight on the "Holy Spirit" when the indwelling Holy Spirit would lead believers to keep the spotlight & focus on the Son in worship, prayer, & fellowship, because the Bridegroom will be coming soon.
@Christ4Me
Do you ever really discuss? Do you even read anything I post? Why do you keep throwing that word, ecumenical, in my direction? Over the years of serving God as I have changed on things as I have also grown toward Him, but I have always strongly opposed ecumenism. That has not changed.
Do you think I have been serving God most of my life without seeing the videos and hearing the arguments and accusations before? Read my previous post with understanding and really try out my suggestion.
To remain still is to stagnate and die.
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
Do you ever really discuss? Do you even read anything I post? Why do you keep throwing that word, ecumenical, in my direction? Over the years of serving God as I have changed on things as I have also grown toward Him, but I have always strongly opposed ecumenism. That has not changed.
Do you think I have been serving God most of my life without seeing the videos and hearing the arguments and accusations before? Read my previous post with understanding and really try out my suggestion.
To remain still is to stagnate and die.
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
The apostasy holy laughter is ecumenical which is a fruit of the false prophet. You do not seem to oppose it.
Sometimes believers as well as teachers and leaders can be sleeping and not awake.
I have found that the more you listen to 'how to' advice the more inhibited you can become. How to pray; how to speak in tongues; how to worship etc. The best advice is to open yourself up to the Holy Spirit and let him show you. He will never tell you anything that will inhibit your spiritual life,
The only thing you know about me is tongues. On that one point alone on which you have said nothing new to me and you ignore or fail to understand anything else I have written here.
One day, very soon I hope, you will admit to God that you also do not know everything and perhaps some of what you do think know is in error. It was only when God opened my eyes to that in myself a number of years ago that I found myself moving toward the Him. Consider a talus slope!
You do know that is a new age methodology in opening oneself up to the spirits? That is kind of like giving a "how to" advise there, right?
I know you meant well, but I do not need to open myself up to the Holy Spirit because my body is the temple of The Holy Spirit and He lets me know when I am doing something wrong when He is grieved. You do not need to either. The real indwelling holy Ghost will always keep your eyes & focus on the Bridegroom because He will be coming soon. The spirit of the antichrist would take your focus away from the Son in seeking them instead of Christ.
Jesus Christ is in me. I am resting in Him as Spirit-filled since salvation.
A believer can be known by their words and what they believe by their words & actions or lack thereof. Below is a comment and you tell me if you agree with it or not and if not, how would you address it?
"Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ." end of quote
From that point have you ever quenched the Spirit?
Believers are, or are to be, parts of the Body of Christ, each part having particular functions as directed.
"But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:18
The Director, of course, is the Head. There is only one Head of the Body. It is not you or me!
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18
That might be someone's AT [Absolute Truth], but not mine! I strive each day to avoid taking on definite ATs. Perhaps I do hold some, but not that one! They worked hard on me in the UPC to make it so, but without success. I seek rather His face, His kingdom and His righteousness... as He leads me. I want to be like John the Baptist there with only one Head!
"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:31
C4M: "Paul said so in context of comparing tongues against prophesy for why prophesy is better; not how cool it is by itself
LOL, you conveniently ignore Paul's wording: he says, "he who speaks in an uninterpreted tongue EDIFIES himself." Edification from the Spirit is always spiritually uplifting. Paul limits the superiority of prophecy to a group setting WITH OUTSIDERS PRESENT.
C4M: "when that same tongue needs to be interpreted to be understood by the tongue speaker so the tongue will be fruitful to himself, therefore never intended for private use."
No, the tongue needs to be interpreted to be profitable to the listeners "so that the church will be built up."
C4M: "That verse you had quoted refutes your application, brother, when you remove the bracketed words [ in tongues] which was added & inserted. "But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in church, but speak to himself and to God (14:28).""
Nope! Bible commentators recognize that Paul is encouraging private tongues at home. The context is decisive here. The silly alternative would be to take Paul as encouraging people to mumble to themselves in church!
Nope! Bible commentaries agree that Paul is speaking of private tongues at home. He isn't encouraging people to mumble to themselves in church.
C4M: ""Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."
Again, your ignorance of Greek betrays you. The Greek says, "earnestly seek spiritual gifts, especially (not "rather!") that you may prophesy."
")
C4M: "What need is there for self edification by tongues for private use because when uninterpreted, you cannot know if you are being self edified"
Not only can you know; my tongues experience was by far the high point of my life! It transformed my mind so that I soon received the highest GPA in the province, after being a rather average student. You remind me of someone who has never known romantic love trashing the experience. Never will you worship God with more passion and purity of heart than when you authentically speak in tongues.
C4M: "Like it or not, God wants genuine worship, normal prayers,"
You pervert Paul's teaching here. In the context of discussiong spiritual warfare, Paul offers as a key to victory that we must "pray in the Spirit (Eph.6:18);"that is, we must master Spirit-directed prayer, one form of which is speaking in tongues.
LOL, you conveniently ignore Paul's wording: he says, "he who speaks in an uninterpreted tongue EDIFIES himself." Edification from the Spirit is always spiritually uplifting. Paul limits the superiority of prophecy to a group setting WITH OUTSIDERS PRESENT.
C4M: "when that same tongue needs to be interpreted to be understood by the tongue speaker so the tongue will be fruitful to himself, therefore never intended for private use."
No, the tongue needs to be interpreted to be profitable to the listeners "so that the church will be built up."
C4M: "That verse you had quoted refutes your application, brother, when you remove the bracketed words [ in tongues] which was added & inserted. "But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in church, but speak to himself and to God (14:28).""
Nope! Bible commentators recognize that Paul is encouraging private tongues at home. The context is decisive here. The silly alternative would be to take Paul as encouraging people to mumble to themselves in church!
Nope! Bible commentaries agree that Paul is speaking of private tongues at home. He isn't encouraging people to mumble to themselves in church.
C4M: ""Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."
Again, your ignorance of Greek betrays you. The Greek says, "earnestly seek spiritual gifts, especially (not "rather!") that you may prophesy."
")
C4M: "What need is there for self edification by tongues for private use because when uninterpreted, you cannot know if you are being self edified"
Not only can you know; my tongues experience was by far the high point of my life! It transformed my mind so that I soon received the highest GPA in the province, after being a rather average student. You remind me of someone who has never known romantic love trashing the experience. Never will you worship God with more passion and purity of heart than when you authentically speak in tongues.
C4M: "Like it or not, God wants genuine worship, normal prayers,"
You pervert Paul's teaching here. In the context of discussiong spiritual warfare, Paul offers as a key to victory that we must "pray in the Spirit (Eph.6:18);"that is, we must master Spirit-directed prayer, one form of which is speaking in tongues.
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being filled with the Spirit has nothing new age about it, it it how he leads us and guides us and helps us. Being open to his guidance is vital.
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