How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!

[Pearl]

No, baptism is not just a purification rite; it's not just expressing faith in Jesus.
It is in baptism that Jesus saves us.

I was saved quite a few years before I was baptised so that proves your theory wrong.

 

[Mungo]

I know you are a Catholic and that you believe baptism saves. But by perpetuating this belief your church is deceiving the lost into thinking they are saved. It's totally wrong.

No, I am not wrong. I'm following Scripture.

 

[Mungo]

Scripture does not 'clearly state' your church has placed that interpretation on certain texts. All baptisms in the bible are of saved believers.

How clear do you need it to be?
Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Peter wrote: ...eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (1Pet 3:20:21)
What isn 't clear about that?

 

[Mungo]

I was saved quite a few years before I was baptised so that proves your theory wrong.

You claim you were saved.

Do I base my beliefs on what Scripture says or on your personal experiences?

 

[Mungo]

<<<No, baptism is not just a purification rite>>>

To be clear, I was talking about baptism with water. It is certainly is a rite, a ritual, symbolic of a spiritual reality.

I agree.

<<<It is in baptism that Jesus saves us.>>>

Jesus is the Savior and salvation is through faith, as I have pointed out.

God saved Abraham. Was Abraham baptized? God saved Enoch, Abel, Isaac, Jacob, and many OT saints, even the thief on the cross with Jesus. Were they baptized? No. But all were saved through faith. They believed. Was Paul saved because he was baptized? Paul was saved because he believed. He got himself baptized because he believed. Were the 11 apostles saved because they were baptized? They were saved because they believed. Were the 3000 individuals saved because they were baptized? They were saved because they believed. They got themselves baptized because they believed.

I repeat my position, God is the Savior and He saves through faith. One who does not believe and just got himself baptized, for whatever reason, or was baptized for whatever reason other than that because he believes, will not be saved and is not saved.

Tong
R4765

Baptism is the normal way that Jesus gave us to be saved under the New Covenant.
We are not normally saved by faith alone and Scripture doesn't say we are.

I say normal and normally because God can always make exceptions if he chooses to. But it is God who chooses how we are saved not us.

The 3000 were saved because they believed and were baptised.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

 

[Mungo]

@Pearl @Tong2020
Have you noticed that you give your opinions without a single scripture to back them up.
I give you scripture.

What happened to Sola Scriptura?

 

[Tong2020]

How clear do you need it to be?
Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Peter wrote: ...eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (1Pet 3:20:21)
What isn 't clear about that?

<<<…eight persons, were saved through water.>>>

And the rest of mankind in the generation of Noah were not saved through water but were destroyed through water.

Tong
R4768

 

[Mungo]

<<<…eight persons, were saved through water.>>>

And the rest of mankind in the generation of Noah were not saved through water but were destroyed through water.

Tong
R4768

So according to you "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you" somehow doesn't mean that Baptism saves us.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<No, baptism is not just a purification rite>>>

To be clear, I was talking about baptism with water. It is certainly is a rite, a ritual, symbolic of a spiritual reality.

I agree.

<<<It is in baptism that Jesus saves us.>>>

Jesus is the Savior and salvation is through faith, as I have pointed out.

God saved Abraham. Was Abraham baptized? God saved Enoch, Abel, Isaac, Jacob, and many OT saints, even the thief on the cross with Jesus. Were they baptized? No. But all were saved through faith. They believed. Was Paul saved because he was baptized? Paul was saved because he believed. He got himself baptized because he believed. Were the 11 apostles saved because they were baptized? They were saved because they believed. Were the 3000 individuals saved because they were baptized? They were saved because they believed. They got themselves baptized because they believed.

I repeat my position, God is the Savior and He saves through faith. One who does not believe and just got himself baptized, for whatever reason, or was baptized for whatever reason other than that because he believes, will not be saved and is not saved.

Baptism is the normal way that Jesus gave us to be saved under the New Covenant.
We are not normally saved by faith alone and Scripture doesn't say we are.

I say normal and normally because God can always make exceptions if he chooses to. But it is God who chooses how we are saved not us.

The 3000 were saved because they believed and were baptised.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

<<<Baptism is the normal way that Jesus gave us to be saved under the New Covenant.
We are not normally saved by faith alone and Scripture doesn't say we are.>>>

If you still did not get it, God saves through faith. And that was how He saves even from the beginning, before the OT, during the OT, after the OT, during the NT.

<<<The 3000 were saved because they believed and were baptised.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)>>>

You seem to be suggesting that the 3000 individuals who believed would not have been saved if they were not baptized? So, if you preached the gospel and Jesus Christ to somebody, and that somebody believed, but had not had himself baptized in and by the RC church, is he not saved?

It seems you just are ignoring what you read in my discussion regarding Mk.16:16. So, I will repeat myself here.

Mark 16:16 says “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

He who does not believe will not be saved but will be condemned. But he who believes, will he be saved? Yes. One who is baptized, at least in the proper sense, is taken to be a believer. He is saved not because he got baptized, but because he believes. It follows then that one who does not believe and just got himself baptized, for whatever reason, or was baptized for whatever reason other than that because he believes, will not be saved. One is not saved and will be condemned, not because he was not baptized, but because he did not believe.

Tong
R4769

 

[Pearl]

How clear do you need it to be?
Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)

Yes Jesus did say that BUT it is the believing that saves Not the baptism.

 

[Pearl]

You claim you were saved.

I don't just 'claim' it, I WAS saved and also filled with the Spirit.
And the church leaders would not have baptised me had I not been already saved.

 

[farouk]

I don't just 'claim' it, I WAS saved and also filled with the Spirit.
And the church leaders would not have baptised me had I not been already saved.

@Pearl This indeed is also the Scriptural order: in Acts 2.41, they that gladly received his word were baptized.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl This indeed is also the Scriptural order: in Acts 2.41, they that gladly received his word were baptized.

The teaching that baptism saves is totally misleading thousands and thousands of people who otherwise might really get saved.

 

[farouk]

The teaching that baptism saves is totally misleading thousands and thousands of people who otherwise might really get saved.

@Pearl It's simply so clear in Acts 2, isn't it?

 

[Mungo]

I don't just 'claim' it, I WAS saved and also filled with the Spirit.
And the church leaders would not have baptised me had I not been already saved.

SO your personal experience trumps Scripture.
OK, I can see where you are coming from.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<…eight persons, were saved through water.>>>

And the rest of mankind in the generation of Noah were not saved through water but were destroyed through water.

So according to you "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you" somehow doesn't mean that Baptism saves us.

My point in my post is that, it is not baptism with water or it is not water through which God saves, but through faith.

As with regards your question you’ll have the answer in 1 Pet.3:21 and context.

Tong
R4770

 

[farouk]

I know you are a Catholic and that you believe baptism saves. But by perpetuating this belief your church is deceiving the lost into thinking they are saved. It's totally wrong.

@Pearl Yes, it's totally wrong.

 

[Mungo]

Yes Jesus did say that BUT it is the believing that saves Not the baptism.

SO you believe Jesus phrased it badly?
Careless Jesus.

And did Peter phrase it badly when he wrote that Baptism saves you now?

 

[farouk]

SO your personal experience trumps Scripture.
OK, I can see where you are coming from.

Acts 2.41 shows that it was those who gladly received his word that were baptized. They were baptized because they were believers already; they did not become baptized in order to become believers.

 

[Mungo]

@Pearl This indeed is also the Scriptural order: in Acts 2.41, they that gladly received his word were baptized.

Yes its (normally) the scriptural order - belief first then baptism. Just as Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved.
But Acts 2:41 doesn't say they that gladly received his word and were saved and then they were baptized.