How to choose a correct church to go to?

[tomwebster]

PS. To veteran. When you hold the Bible, are you holding Jesus?

It might be important to note that when Paul writes that to Timothy (see veteran's post), he's refering to the Old Testament! The NT wasn't put together yet and it was just a bunch of letters and books scattered around ;)

When you take that into account, and then consider reading the Bible to be it, then logic says the Pharisees who read the scriptures should of been just like Jesus... But they weren't! We are to walk by the Spirit... It is possible to study much but never learn!

We are to become a living epistle! A living testimony!

When you hold Scripture you are holding the Word of God, yes. All of it, Old and New, they are both God Breathed.

I like your approach! Thanks for sharing :)

Don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters, I'm not saying studying is bad. What I'm saying is this; you can't follow what YOUR own mind and YOUR own understanding gets from the scriptures. You have to follow the Spirit. God's ways are higher than our ways... The way of our mind and understanding is NOT the way of the Lord. Not by might and not by strength but by my Spirit says the Lord. It's a different realm, a different reality, a different life.

(It's in Proverbs by the way, tomwebster )

Blessings in Christ to you all

Where in Proverbs P? Are you sure you’re not referring to: Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

AND, what is the subject, do you have any idea? You can’t follow your own mind you have to look at the context of what you are quoting.

Also, are you suggestion you are following the Spirit and I’m not??? Be careful how you answer that.

 

[Prentis]

I hope it's ok to respond to this as well. I probably missed this point in your first post, and want to clarify. Are you stating you do not believe the NT is the Word of God? Just the OT is? Don't worry I won't attack you if that is what you are telling us. :)
But the way that I see it, God knows beginning to end, and although the NT was not written, God knew it would be and so when I read the verse veteran wrote, it means the written word, including the NT AND it means the Living Word. Also, in order for us to read the written Word, the Holy Spirit also must teach us through it, otherwise it would be simply the Letter of the Law. The entire written Word points us to the Word made flesh.

Can you please be more specific on your reasoning why you do not accept the NT as the written Word (with a capital "W")? :)
Thanks Prentis

I appreciate the grace in your posts, sister. :)

No, that is not what I am saying. I absolutely believe the NT is inspired by our Lord and full of his truth.

BUT when Paul is speaking he is in fact talking about the Old Testament. What I am doing is pointing to the errors of the Pharisees. If we think that just reading the scriptures makes us spiritual is very mistaken. And thinking that applying it according to OUR understanding works is wrong. It looks right to our human eyes, but it's wrong. We must do things according to the power of the Spirit.

I really like the way you put things. You said:
"The entire written Word points to the Word made flesh"

Amen! But that's the thing: it POINTS to Christ. It gives us an example of what it looks like to follow the Spirit. The New Testament, especially Acts, records what it's like to for a people to follow the Spirit and have Christ living through them.

Let me give you an example... Of a NT example :lol:

As Stephen was being stoned, he was full of the Spirit and spoke what the Spirit inspired him to speak. He saw the son seated at the right side of the Father! He did NOT imagine that or think "that must be what's happening because that's what I read in the scriptures".

Again, don't get me wrong, studying and learning is good, but we are called to a higher level where it is the Spirit that speaks through, where it is not longer us who are alive and speak but Jesus who lives through us!

 

[Holy Pursuit]

I appreciate the grace in your posts, sister. :)

No, that is not what I am saying. I absolutely believe the NT is inspired by our Lord and full of his truth.

BUT when Paul is speaking he is in fact talking about the Old Testament. What I am doing is pointing to the errors of the Pharisees. If we think that just reading the scriptures makes us spiritual is very mistaken. And thinking that applying it according to OUR understanding works is wrong. It looks right to our human eyes, but it's wrong. We must do things according to the power of the Spirit.

I really like the way you put things. You said:
"The entire written Word points to the Word made flesh"

Amen! But that's the thing: it POINTS to Christ. It gives us an example of what it looks like to follow the Spirit. The New Testament, especially Acts, records what it's like to for a people to follow the Spirit and have Christ living through them.

Let me give you an example... Of a NT example :lol:

As Stephen was being stoned, he was full of the Spirit and spoke what the Spirit inspired him to speak. He saw the son seated at the right side of the Father! He did NOT imagine that or think "that must be what's happening because that's what I read in the scriptures".

Again, don't get me wrong, studying and learning is good, but we are called to a higher level where it is the Spirit that speaks through, where it is not longer us who are alive and speak but Jesus who lives through us!

Man! I had a whole entire rebuttal waiting for you. :lol: j/k
Yes! Prentis, I agree. We are definitely called higher, it is no longer us, but He in us walking as He walked, together, in unity as the Body! The Kingdom is within us and we are seated in the heavenlies. Isn't that the most amazing realization of who we are?!? Blows me away! :)
Amen!

 

[Prentis]

Prentis I agree with you regarding the Bible

I think it is common for some people to confuse Gods word with God, himself

Yes!

Jesus Christ is the living word! The Lord can make the words come alive to us as we read them, I have experienced this and so have many that I know. The would be the Lord speaking to you through the written word.

 

[Prentis]

When you hold Scripture you are holding the Word of God, yes. All of it, Old and New, they are both God Breathed.





Where in Proverbs P? Are you sure you’re not referring to: Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

AND, what is the subject, do you have any idea? You can’t follow your own mind you have to look at the context of what you are quoting.

Also, are you suggestion you are following the Spirit and I’m not??? Be careful how you answer that.

And yet many who have read the Bible, both in times past and long ago and today, are not spiritual. What I'm proposing is that we change the question: it's not 'what would Jesus do?' but rather 'what is Jesus doing?'. Jesus is already doing something and we need to get on with that. When we try to look at the past we forget that the Spirit blows where it wishes. We try to calculate things and go according to our own senses, but we need the Spirit.

I think it's funny that you reffered to me as P, that's what some referred to me as on another website where I was friends with someone called C :)

Now, to the important stuff.

I thought you were referring to "walk not by thine own understanding", which is in Proverbs. Yes I am also referring to Zechariah.

Reading the Bible does not make one Spiritual. No more than eating it does. Think about it this way, if you eat a Bible, is Christ in you? The things of the Bible are spiritual and our natural man can't understand them. We must apprehend them by the Spirit and ask the Lord to open our understanding. Prayer and seeking the Lord can be accomanied by the reading of the word, but in our reading we must seek the Lord's understanding rather than ours.

Blessings to you in Christ

Man! I had a whole entire rebuttal waiting for you. :lol: j/k
Yes! Prentis, I agree. We are definitely called higher, it is no longer us, but He in us walking as He walked, together, in unity as the Body! The Kingdom is within us and we are seated in the heavenlies. Isn't that the most amazing realization of who we are?!? Blows me away! :)
Amen!

:lol:

Keep going around these sites long enough and I'm sure you'll find someone for who that rebuttal is fitting... Beliefs come in all shapes and sizes! ;)

God bless you

 

[tomwebster]

And yet many who have read the Bible, both in times past and long ago and today, are not spiritual. What I'm proposing is that we change the question: it's not 'what would Jesus do?' but rather 'what is Jesus doing?'. Jesus is already doing something and we need to get on with that. When we try to look at the past we forget that the Spirit blows where it wishes. We try to calculate things and go according to our own senses, but we need the Spirit.

I think it's funny that you reffered to me as P, that's what some referred to me as on another website where I was friends with someone called C :)

Now, to the important stuff.

I thought you were referring to "walk not by thine own understanding", which is in Proverbs. Yes I am also referring to Zechariah.

Reading the Bible does not make one Spiritual. No more than eating it does. Think about it this way, if you eat a Bible, is Christ in you? The things of the Bible are spiritual and our natural man can't understand them. We must apprehend them by the Spirit and ask the Lord to open our understanding. Prayer and seeking the Lord can be accomanied by the reading of the word, but in our reading we must seek the Lord's understanding rather than ours.

....

I'm not sure what you are talking about. You said something was found in Proverbs when it was in Zech.
Pro 3:5 is: "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." I think you are just trying to pull Scripture out of the air without understanding context. That is why your second paragraph doesn't make any sense either. It sounds like you are making accusations without any foundation for making them. I understand God's Word, it your words I am having trouble with.

 

[Prentis]

What I was saying is that I referred to both a verse in Zechariah and a verse in Proverbs. :)

God bless you

 

[Holy Pursuit]

I really think this is a matter of the Letter of the Law vs the Spirit. We can not discern truth without the Spirit. This is why, imo, there are so many differing beliefs, so many denominations, etc. as the Bible tells us the letter of the law kills, but the Spirit gives Life, and people pull doctrine out using simply the letter of the law. In Revelation it tells us that Jesus is the testimony and Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy. It's like just reading the Bible is 1D, but by the Spirit we can read it in 3D. As someone mentioned, the Spirit brings the words to Life when reading the Bible, and we receive a deeper understanding of what the Lord is teaching us.
As in Corinthians:
1Cr 2:6-16 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


Blessings

 

[Holy Pursuit]

I think it's funny that you reffered to me as P, that's what some referred to me as on another website where I was friends with someone called C :)

I apologize for the OT post, but Prentis this really caught my eye, and this could be a very long shot, but do you know if your friend C was from South Africa? That is what my friend went by and I know he was on alot of forums using that user name. Thanks.

 

[Episkopos]

I apologize for the OT post, but Prentis this really caught my eye, and this could be a very long shot, but do you know if your friend C was from South Africa? That is what my friend went by and I know he was on alot of forums using that user name. Thanks.

Cornelius Bosch?

He was a good friend of mine! Very tragic happenings!

Were you an other sites?

 

[pilgrimjo]

Hmm... Interesting... I was thinking about what you said and I'm just wondering, wouldn't it be easy to fool ourselves and go to a church that teaches it how WE understand it? You know, if WE are the ones doing the choosing, isn't the church going to be, so to speak, in OUR image? I think that's why we have so many divisions and denominations, everyone goes according to their own understanding!

Which rings a bell... "Walk not by your own understanding"!

Don't get me wrong, the word of God is true, but here's my take on it: seek the Spirit's guidance FIRST and then let the word CONFIRM the guidance so that you know if it really was the Spirit. I would say we don't follow the word, we follow the Spirit, but the word is a good way of confirming which spirit it is we are following.

Just my two cents :)

Blessings...



I think you make an important point. We can't just go anywhere where they have a bible and believe what they say... As you say, we might as well draw names from a hat! Ok, we'll go by Mr. A's understanding! Not good...

But I would push it one step further. Reading the Bible is good, but I think we need to follow the living word, the Lord Jesus Christ. Seek his guidance in prayer, seek the Spirit, and let the scriptures confirms what he tells you.

I think otherwise we could turn into hollow shells... Not being full of the Spirit of the Lord. The letter of the law can't give life to your inner man, only the Spirit can, and so we need to be guided of the Spirit. If we are guided of the Spirit, the Word of the Lord will indeed be in agreement! :)

Blessings

Points well made here. Received in agreement and appreciated. Holy Spirit guidance paramount lining up with the Word..so to find a church which worships in Spirit and Truth.

 

[Holy Pursuit]

Cornelius Bosch?

He was a good friend of mine! Very tragic happenings!

Were you an other sites?

YES! That is him, I miss him so so much!

Several years ago I was on a site with him, then I burnt out on forums and haven't been back, we communicated via e-mail. He was a brother a friend and a mentor to me as he was to so many people.

It is so nice to meet someone that knew him also!

 

[Prentis]

Yes! I was talking about Cornelius!

He was also a mentor of sorts to me, a spiritual uncle you could say... Though only for a short while. I met him on the forum only months ago... I met him mostly through Episkopos here, who I know personaly.

In the short time I knew him, I was blessed greatly by his teaching and his wisdom and most of all simply the love he showed me as a more experienced brother in the Lord. His way was full of grace and he truly had a love for the brothers and for our Lord.

Nice to meet more people who knew him and who he helped grow in the Lord... The list keeps growing longer and longer, if you know what I mean!

Blessings

 

[Holy Pursuit]

Yes! I was talking about Cornelius!

He was also a mentor of sorts to me, a spiritual uncle you could say... Though only for a short while. I met him on the forum only months ago... I met him mostly through Episkopos here, who I know personaly.

In the short time I knew him, I was blessed greatly by his teaching and his wisdom and most of all simply the love he showed me as a more experienced brother in the Lord. His way was full of grace and he truly had a love for the brothers and for our Lord.

Nice to meet more people who knew him and who he helped grow in the Lord... The list keeps growing longer and longer, if you know what I mean!

Blessings

I am glad you were able to meet him, Prentis! He was truly a blessing to know.

Blessings to you.

 

[Prentis]

I am glad you were able to meet him, Prentis! He was truly a blessing to know.

Blessings to you.

He was :)

Blessings to you too!

 

[sniper762]

pray for wisdom and truth, read the bible, ponder it then investigate the church. relate how they perceive the scripture compared to how you perceive it. dont change to see things THEIR way but rather they see things YOUR way.

 

[aspen]

Go where you can find, grow, and love Christ and community fully. Christ and His community are found in places with a good foundation in scripture and a policy of the application of doctrine through love. Doctrine without love is legalism; love without doctrine is self love.

 

[[email protected]]

A good church is like finding love. It is a rare thing when you find it and something you should not relinquish quickly.

I have been fortunate enough to have been blessed by God with love and a fine wife. Not so lucky with church.
In fact, my relationship with church can best be described as a mixture of bored toleration (on my part), rejection and downright hatred (on the part of the church).

I was told BY A BISHOP once that the ministry wasn't a divine calling, it was "just a job." "Get out", he said. So I left.

I was hated and rejected by an entire church once because I stood up and related the story of how the Lord miraculously saved several dozen men in my military unit. On another occasion I was invited to leave a church because I told the paster it wasn't appropriate to show a video of a young woman raising her hand and cursing God DURING THE WORSHIP SERVICE. Apparently I'm a loose cannon.

I have never EVER attended a church for any length of time that I would consider to have had a positive influence upon me or anyone in my family OR ANYONE I KNOW.

In fact, when I got saved it was at a one night stand (a single event in a church I never returned to) followed by six months of education in Christianity by myself under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - outside the uSA. After I was saved I didn't attend church regularly for nearly eight months because of military duties overseas. I was in a situation with no chaplain and no organized religion at all - unless you count the Muslim countries we were assigned to. The Holy Spirit took me in hand and the guidance I received has served me well to this day.

Church is useless as far as I'm concerned. They are run by people who always have one hand on the Bible and the other in somebody else's pocket. Maybe they're scratching for money or maybe they're just scratching.....but the hand is there.

I attend regularly today, but am a member of none. I usually sit there for a year or two and then move on to another. It's about all I can tolerate of their petty attitudes, shallow milky doctrines and self-serving 'ministries'. Perhaps it's the tone of churches in central Florida where I live. They are all infected with the Disney attitude; big show, tinsel thin rhetoric and cartoonish characters. I don't visit Disney much anymore either because after more than forty trips to their parks, the humanistic attitude that pervades everything they do is enough to make me retch.....but that's corporate America for you. The church ought to be different.

It isn't.

 

[Prentis]

Don't give up, rjp.

Even if you are alone ;)

It's a lonely path I concur, and I for one am unable to sit through any typical, 10-12, sunday 'gathering'. All I'm saying is don't give up and don't think the Lord doesn't have a plan and a way... Seek him. and you will find him!

With much love in our Lord, brother

 

[jiggyfly]

A good church is like finding love. It is a rare thing when you find it and something you should not relinquish quickly.

I have been fortunate enough to have been blessed by God with love and a fine wife. Not so lucky with church.
In fact, my relationship with church can best be described as a mixture of bored toleration (on my part), rejection and downright hatred (on the part of the church).

I was told BY A BISHOP once that the ministry wasn't a divine calling, it was "just a job." "Get out", he said. So I left.

I was hated and rejected by an entire church once because I stood up and related the story of how the Lord miraculously saved several dozen men in my military unit. On another occasion I was invited to leave a church because I told the paster it wasn't appropriate to show a video of a young woman raising her hand and cursing God DURING THE WORSHIP SERVICE. Apparently I'm a loose cannon.

I have never EVER attended a church for any length of time that I would consider to have had a positive influence upon me or anyone in my family OR ANYONE I KNOW.

In fact, when I got saved it was at a one night stand (a single event in a church I never returned to) followed by six months of education in Christianity by myself under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - outside the uSA. After I was saved I didn't attend church regularly for nearly eight months because of military duties overseas. I was in a situation with no chaplain and no organized religion at all - unless you count the Muslim countries we were assigned to. The Holy Spirit took me in hand and the guidance I received has served me well to this day.

Church is useless as far as I'm concerned. They are run by people who always have one hand on the Bible and the other in somebody else's pocket. Maybe they're scratching for money or maybe they're just scratching.....but the hand is there.

I attend regularly today, but am a member of none. I usually sit there for a year or two and then move on to another. It's about all I can tolerate of their petty attitudes, shallow milky doctrines and self-serving 'ministries'. Perhaps it's the tone of churches in central Florida where I live. They are all infected with the Disney attitude; big show, tinsel thin rhetoric and cartoonish characters. I don't visit Disney much anymore either because after more than forty trips to their parks, the humanistic attitude that pervades everything they do is enough to make me retch.....but that's corporate America for you. The church ought to be different.

It isn't.

I here ya and know the struggle very well. When you won't allow religion to control you it will ostracize you. A good example is the way the pharises treated John the baptist.