How to understand : God's Foreknowledge

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Behold

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Hyper Calvinist's who are deceived, can never understand nor comprehend the "foreknowledge" of God.....= What this actually means.

So, lets look at it together..


"FORE". "Knowledge".

A.) BE-FORE" it happens, God knows it will. That is "foreknowledge".

See that?
That is God knowing everything BEFORE, it happens.

Now, the deceived Hyper-Calvinist, who is deceived by John Calvins's heresy, was taught to believe that God knowing all things before they happen, is the same as God CAUSING all things to happen.
See that error?
See that LIE?
Thats a LIE, and John Calvin is a liar who taught this lie and his deceived repeat this LIE for hundreds of years.

See that? That is the ERROR of John Calvin's Theology, = Just ONE ...among many other theological errors.


Now....Look Again..

"FORE...... Knowledge."

"be-fore" = it happens.......God knew it would.
This can be understood as God knowing your Thoughts.
God knows ALL your thoughts reader. He knows ALL your MOTIVES............but He does not cause them.... He just KNOWS THEM........and He knew them BE-FORE you had them.
See it?
Listen.... before you were born, God knew you would be right here, reading what im teaching you.
He know you would, but He didn't cause it.......He just FORE-KNEW" it...
See that?

So, here is how to understand it correctly.

God knowing everything before it happens, is NOT the same as GOD CAUSING it all to happen.

John Calvin could not understand this......even tho its so very simple to understand it.
So, in his slightly insane mind, John Calvin decided that God knowing it all, God's "fore-knowledge". must mean that God causes it all to happen.
But that is not the case, AT ALL......However, John Calvin just kept on going deeper into his deception until he finally arrived at the idea that your don't have any free will, and so then according to the evolved world of JC's = Heresy......You can't choose Christ by freewill.

I'll tell you a cold hard fact, reader.
The DEVIL has gotten more use out of John Calvin's theology, then just about anything else.
And this makes sense, as it was SATAN who gave most of these "revelations" to this hyper religious maniac.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Hyper Calvinist's who are deceived, can never understand nor comprehend the "foreknowledge" of God.....= What this actually means.

So, lets look at it together..


"FORE". "Knowledge".

A.) BE-FORE" it happens, God knows it will. That is "foreknowledge".

See that?
That is God knowing everything BEFORE, it happens.

Now, the deceived Hyper-Calvinist, who is deceived by John Calvins's heresy, was taught to believe that God knowing all things before they happen, is the same as God CAUSING all things to happen.
Yes, God knew everything in advance, but also created Free Will for human beings He created. That means He is responsible for setting up a situation in which things could go south. He has every right to do that, being the Creator of the scenario.

But you're right. He didn't "fix the fight"--He just enables it and anticipated that the results of the fight could go one of two ways. Knowing both possibilities is not lacking foreknowledge, since we are talking about a *kind* of foreknowledge that prohibits circumventing Free Choice by people. The kind of knowledge that knows the results in advance would indeed by "fixing the fight"--something that I don't believe God did or would do.

I'm somewhat Calvinist, but certainly not Hyper-Calvinist. I think God "fixed" a certain number of results, such as the fact certain people would be saved, and certain people would be damned. And I think He fixed the full number of those who would be saved. But the process by which this takes place is *not* fixed.
 

quietthinker

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How to understand : God's Foreknowledge​

....it's not difficult, just come to CB and there are plenty of 'how to' threads by those who feel qualified. :contemplate:
 

Behold

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Yes, God knew everything in advance, but also created Free Will for human beings He created. That means He is responsible for setting up a situation in which things could go south.

The bible does not teach, imply, or conclude that. " God sets up situations that can go south".

The devil is the Tempter..who brings people, situations, and objects into your world, = into your eyeballs so that you will FALL into temptation.

Are You not teaching...that God TEMPS you ,????? into a Trip and a possible fall.

Think about something.
God knows what you are going to do, before you do it.....so, He knows you will mess up........so, why would He CAUSE THAT?
The NT says that God temps no man, no person. but you are tempted of your own flesh

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

New International Version
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

New Living Translation
And remember, when you are being tempted, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else.

English Standard Version
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Berean Standard Bible
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

Berean Literal Bible
Let no one being tempted say, "I am being tempted by God." For God is unable to be tempted by evils, and He Himself tempts no one.

King James Bible
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


People have this false idea that a thing of itself is a temptation.
Such as....

A pretty woman.
A pretty man.
A lot of money.
Drugs.
Porn.

But these are not the temptation...they are the OBJECTS that a person will LUST over... .and that concludes that the temptation is within you.,
= Its the power of your LUST that drives temptation...... and the object is not to blame.
 

Randy Kluth

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The bible does not teach, imply, or conclude that. " God sets up situations that can go south".
Of course He did! He created mankind, and they did "go south!"
The devil is the Tempter..who brings people, situations, and objects into your world, = into your eyeballs so that you will FALL into temptation.

Are You not teaching...that God TEMPS you ,????? into a Trip and a possible fall.
No, I'm teaching that God created Satan an angel with a Free Choice. He had the ability, he knew, to go his own way, and to have his existence follow him. The world therefore found his temptation something worth considering, and many fell with him. God set up this Free environment, but had nothing to do with the temptations that followed those bad choices.
Think about something.
God knows what you are going to do, before you do it.....so, He knows you will mess up........so, why would He CAUSE THAT?
The NT says that God temps no man, no person. but you are tempted of your own flesh
I never said that God "knew we were going to mess up." He knew what would result regardless of the Free Choice mankind was given. You might say that God "caused the mess." But I prefer to say that God caused the "results of Man's bad Free Choice." He created consequences to show what results from bad choices.
But these are not the temptation...they are the OBJECTS that a person will LUST over... .and that concludes that the temptation is within you.,
= Its the power of your LUST that drives temptation...... and the object is not to blame.
Of course, man is drawn away by his own lusts. But Jesus warned those who offered tempting things that men are weak towards.
 

Behold

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Of course He did! He created mankind, and they did "go south!"

Yes they rebelled.

However, you first taught, in your previous post, that God set them up to fail.
He didnt.
God does not "temp" you , Randy., and He didn't temp Eve.
Figure out who did, and you might be able to see what you dont yet understand about temptation, flesh, and this world system that God did not cause, or design.
 

Randy Kluth

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Yes they rebelled.

However, you first taught, in your previous post, that God set them up to fail.
He didnt.
God does not "temp" you , Randy., and He didn't temp Eve.
Figure out who did, and you might be able to see what you dont yet understand about temptation, flesh, and this world system that God did not cause, or design.
You misunderstood me. I never said nor meant to imply that God tempts anybody. What I did say is that God created a system of Free Will where God lets men and angels determine which way they are to go. But being God, He already has a set of circumstances designed to fit whichever decision they make, so that He is never surprised or taken back by what results.

I might compare God to the ocean's waters. He fills the entire universe, just like the waters fill the ocean. You may throw anything into the ocean, depending on what you choose to throw into it, driftwood, pollution, a rock, whatever. The ocean is prepared for whatever is thrown into it because it will always deal with whatever is thrown into it by predetermined conditions. Driftwood ultimately is dissolved, a rock sinks, and pollution is diluted.

God has set the conditions for anything to be "thrown into" His universe. He doesn't choose the choices given to men and angels to make. He just has a preset response to whatever choices are made. The fact He gave them choices was not a temptation, but rather, an opportunity to make Free Choices.
 

Behold

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You misunderstood me. I never said nor meant to imply that God tempts anybody.

You said this..

"""""""He is responsible for setting up a situation in which things could go south. """""""


And you have now explained it as this...


"""""What I did say is that God created a system of Free Will where God lets men and angels determine which way they are to go."""""""


The issue with your Version 2.o, is that you are defining "Let us make man in our Image"....as a "SYSTEM".....when in reality it's a divine state that only Man was given, as far as we know.
The Bible does not clearly state that Angels were made in God's image.....so, we'll have to find that out once we are with them...
We know that God gave them free will, as some of them used it to follow Lucifer.
 

Randy Kluth

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You said this..

"""""""He is responsible for setting up a situation in which things could go south. """""""


And you have now explained it as this...


"""""What I did say is that God created a system of Free Will where God lets men and angels determine which way they are to go."""""""


The issue with your Version 2.o, is that you are defining "Let us make man in our Image"....as a "SYSTEM".....when in reality it's a divine state that only Man was given, as far as we know.
The Bible does not clearly state that Angels were made in God's image.....so, we'll have to find that out once we are with them...
We know that God gave them free will, as some of them used it to follow Lucifer.
There is no need to quote me--too much work. I can simply explain what I meant, rather than set me up for prosecution on the basis of my own words! ;)

The words I choose to use are of little consequence. I could use a number of synonyms to suggest the same thing. The "system" God used is *His own device,* or His own application. He created a universe in which human beings can choose to "go south." They can fall away from the environment in which God rules over human decision. He wished to keep mankind within the confines of His own pure knowledge, to express His morality and character, and all of the attendant virtues. But He did create a situation in which Man could choose to go the wrong way.

I do believe angels were also created, in some sense, in the image of God. Men and angels are regularly compared in Scriptures. Both men and angels are called "sons of God." Redeemed men are said to be ultimately glorified and appear more like the angels. But angelology is not the focus in Scriptures, for good reason. Bad angels can lead men astray through the occult or through spiritual deception.
 

Behold

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The words I choose to use are of little consequence.

Words are everything.
The power of life and death is in your mouth.
Jesus is the WORD made flesh.
God spoke the WORD and creation came into existence.
We will be judged by every idle "word".
Thy WORD is truth.
How will a person cleanse their way? By heeding the word of God.

The longest chapter in the entire bible, is all about the word.

"God exalts His word, above His Name".

The Bible is the word of Life.


Words, words, words........ define, what we think, and watt we think is who we are, inside and outside.

People judge people by what they do.....but God looks on the inside to see who we really are.....
 

Randy Kluth

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Words are everything.
The power of life and death is in your mouth.
Jesus is the WORD made flesh.
God spoke the WORD and creation came into existence.
We will be judged by every idle "word".
Thy WORD is truth.
How will a person cleanse their way? By heeding the word of God.

The longest chapter in the entire bible, is all about the word.

"God exalts His word, above His Name".

The Bible is the word of Life.


Words, words, words........ define, what we think, and watt we think is who we are, inside and outside.

People judge people by what they do.....but God looks on the inside to see who we really are.....
You read way too much into my words. ;)
It is critical that words be understood *in their context.*
I'm not saying words are meaningless and have no value. I'm saying that in context, ie in the context in which I used particular words, they are relatively insignificant in light of the fact other, perhaps better, synonyms could be used. Get real!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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PART ONE:
I think that to understand the matter of foreknowledge as relating to God, certain factors necessarily must be recognized.

I know, God’s ability to foreknow is clearly stated in the Bible. YHWH God himself sets forth as proof of his Godship this ability to foreknow events of salvation and deliverance, as well as acts of judgment and punishment. (Isaiah 44:6-9; 48:38)

I think what should be considered is the free moral agency of God’s intelligent creatures. The Scriptures show that God extends to such creatures the privilege and responsibility of free choice, of exercising free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20; Joshua 24:15;), making them accountable for their acts. (Genesis 2:16, 17; 3:11-19; Romans 14:10-12; Hebrews 4:13) So we are not mere automatons, or robots. We can not truly have been created in “God’s image” if he were not a free moral agent. (Genesis 1:26, 27) Logically, there should be no conflict between God’s foreknowledge and the free moral agency of his intelligent creatures.

Something else to be considered, one sometimes overlooked, is that of God’s moral standards and qualities, including his justice, honesty, impartiality, love, mercy, and kindness. Any understanding of God’s use of the powers of foreknowledge must harmonize with not only some of these factors but with all of them.

Does God know in advance everything that people will do? Is his exercise of foreknowledge infinite, without limit? Does he foresee and foreknow all future actions of all his creatures, spirit and human even doing so before they have come into existence?

Or, is God’s exercise of foreknowledge selective and discretionary, so that whatever he chooses to foresee and foreknow, he does, but what he does not choose to foresee or foreknow, he does not? And, instead of preceding their existence, does God’s determination of his creatures’ eternal destiny await his judgment of their course of life and of their proved attitude under test? The answers to these questions must necessarily come from the Scriptures themselves and the information they provide concerning God’s actions and dealings with his creatures, including what has been revealed through his Son, Christ Jesus. (1Corinthians 2:16)

There are those who have the predestiarian view, which is the view that God’s exercise of his foreknowledge is infinite and that he does foreordain the course and destiny of all individuals, this is known as predestinarianism. Its advocates reason that God’s divinity and perfection require that he be omniscient (all-knowing), not only respecting the past and present but also regarding the future. According to this concept, for him not to foreknow all matters in their minutest detail would evidence imperfection.

To be correct, this view would, of course, have to harmonize with all the factors previously mentioned, including the Scriptural presentation of God’s qualities, standards, and purposes, as well as his righteous ways in dealing with his creatures. (Revelation 15:3,4) What are the implications of such a predestinarian view?

This concept would mean that, prior to creating angels or earthling man, God exercised his powers of foreknowledge and foresaw and foreknew all that would result from such creation, including the rebellion of one of his spirit sons, who became Satan the Devil and the subsequent rebellion of the first human pair in Eden (Genesis 3:1-6; John 8:44), and all the bad consequences of such rebellion down to and beyond this present day. This would necessarily mean that all the wickedness that history has recorded (the crime and immorality, oppression and resultant suffering, lying and hypocrisy, false worship and idolatry) once existed, before creation’s beginning, only in the mind of God, in the form of his foreknowledge of the future in all of its minutest details.

If the Creator of mankind had indeed exercised his power to foreknow all that history has seen since man’s creation, then the full weight of all the wickedness thereafter resulting was deliberately set in motion by God when he spoke the words: “Let us make man.” (Genesis 1:26)These facts bring into question the reasonableness and consistency of the predestinarian view; particularly so, since the disciple James shows that disorder and other vile things do not originate from God’s heavenly presence but are “earthly, animal, demonic” in source.(James 3:14-18)

The argument that God’s not foreknowing all future events and circumstances in full detail is evidence of mperfection on his part is, in reality, an arbitrary view of perfection. Perfection, correctly defined, does not demand such an absolute, all-embracing extension, inasmuch as the perfection of anything actually depends upon its measuring up completely to the standards of excellence set by one qualified to judge its merits. Ultimately, God’s own will and good pleasure, not human opinions or concepts, are the deciding factors as to whether anything is perfect.(Deuteronomy 32:4; 2 Samuel 22:31; Isaiah 46:10)

To illustrate this, God’s almightiness is undeniably perfect and is infinite in capacity. (1Chronicles 29:11, 12; Job 36:22; 37:23) Yet his perfection in strength does not require him to use his power to the full extent of his omnipotence in any or in all cases. Clearly he has not done so; if he had, not merely certain ancient cities and some nations would have been destroyed, but the earth and all in it would have been obliterated long ago by God’s executions of judgment, accompanied by mighty expressions of disapproval and wrath, as at the Flood and on other occasions. (Genesis 6:5-8; 19:23-25, 29; Exodus 9:13-16; Jeremiah 30:23, 24) God’s exercise of his might is therefore not simply an unleashing of limitless power but is constantly governed by his purpose and, where merited, tempered by his mercy. (Nehemiah 9:31; Psalm 78:38, 39; Jeremiah 30:11; Lamentations 3:22; Ezekiel 20:17)

So God can choose to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, and no human or angel can rightly say: “What are you doing?” (Job 9:12; Isaiah 45:9; Daniel 4:35) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, for “with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, or foreknow. (Psalm 115:3)
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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PART TWO:
The alternative to predestinarianism, is selective or discretionary exercise of God’s powers of foreknowledge, and it would have to harmonize with God’s own righteous standards and be consistent with what he reveals of himself in his Word. In contrast with the theory of predestinarianism, a number of texts point to an examination by God of a situation then current and a decision made on the basis of such examination.

Thus, at Genesis 11:5-8 God is described as directing his attention earthward, surveying the situation at Babel, and, at that time, determining the action to be taken to break up the unrighteous project there. After wickedness developed at Sodom and Gomorrah, YHWH God advised Abraham of his decision to investigate (by means of his angels) to “see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it.” (Genesis 18:20-22; 19:1) God spoke of ‘becoming acquainted with Abraham,’ and after Abraham went to the point of attempting to sacrifice Isaac, YHWH said, “For now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.”(Genesis 18:19; 22:11, 12; Nehemiah 9:7, 8; Galatians 4:9)

Selective foreknowledge means that God could choose not to foreknow indiscriminately all the future acts of his creatures. This would mean that, rather than all history from creation onward being a mere rerun of what had already been foreseen, God could with all sincerity set before the first human pair the prospect of everlasting life in an earth free from wickedness. His instructions to his first human son and daughter to act as his perfect and sinless agents in filling the earth with their offspring and making it a paradise, as well as exercising control over the animal creation, could thus be expressed as the grant of a truly loving privilege and as his genuine desire toward them, not merely as the giving of a commission that, on their part, was foredoomed to failure. God’s arranging for a test by means of “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and his creation of “the tree of life” in the garden of Eden also would not be meaningless or cynical acts, made so by his foreknowing that the human pair would sin and never be able to eat of “the tree of life.” (Genesis 1:28; 2:7-9, 15-17; 3:22-24)

To offer something very desirable to another person on conditions known beforehand to be unreachable is recognized as both hypocritical and cruel. The prospect of everlasting life is presented in God’s Word as a goal for all persons, one possible to attain. After urging his listeners to ‘keep on asking and seeking’ good things from God, Jesus pointed out that a father does not give a stone or a serpent to his child that asks for bread or a fish. Showing his Father’s view of disappointing the legitimate hopes of a person, Jesus then said: “Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”(Matthew 7:7-11)

So, the invitations and opportunities to receive benefits and everlasting blessings set before all men by God are bona fide. (Matthew 21:22; James 1:5, 6) He can in all sincerity urge men to ‘turn back from transgression and keep living,’ as he did with the people of Israel. (Ezekiel 18:23, 30-32; Jeremiah 29:11, 12) He could not do this if he foreknew that they were individually destined to die in wickedness. (Acts 17:30, 31; 1Timothy 2:3, 4)

In a similar vein, the apostle Peter writes: “YHWH is not slow respecting his promise as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) If God already foreknew millenniums in advance precisely which individuals would receive eternal salvation and which individuals would receive eternal destruction, it may well be asked how meaningful such ‘patience’ of God could be and how genuine his desire could be that ‘all attain to repentance.’ The inspired apostle John wrote that “God is love,” and the apostle Paul states that love “hopes all things.” (1 John 4:8; 1 Corinthians 13:4, 7)

So if by God’s foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus’ ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of individuals, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men. (2 Corinthians 5:14, 15; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6; Hebrew 2:9) The impartiality of God is clearly no mere figure of speech. “In every nation the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” (Acts 10:34, 35; Deuteronomy 10:17; Romans 2:11)
 
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Behold

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You read way too much into my words. ;)
It is critical that words be understood *in their context.*
I'm not saying words are meaningless and have no value. I'm saying that in context, ie in the context in which I used particular words, they are relatively insignificant in light of the fact other, perhaps better, synonyms could be used. Get real!

You want us to not expect you to be able to use words correctly?, in the context of accurate theology,?

Np.
 

Behold

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crossing 't's and dotting 'i's do not figure in the discussion of theology, no

The bible is a not an opinion based situation.
Its truth based, and true is not opinion.

NT Theology, has to be exactly right, or its completely wrong.
There is no....>"well, what i think"..... regarding discerning the scriptures, Randy.
There is the Light of Revelation, that is God breathed, exactly as given to the writers.
When ... "Here is what i think it means", gets involved then you have Confusion. And when you have confusion, the Devil is in control.

"well, Behold, who is RIGHT".

A.) PAUL

A.) Pauline Theology.

There is nothing else given by Jesus to the body of Christ that determines how we are to understand all the doctrines of the NT.
The HolySpirit and Paul's doctrine.

"the end".

When a person says....>"well, he's just an apostle"........"and there are others"........then you are dealing with a baby christian or just a theological idiot//heretic.
 

Randy Kluth

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The bible is a not an opinion based situation.
Its truth based, and true is not opinion.

NT Theology, has to be exactly right, or its completely wrong.
There is no....>"well, what i think"..... regarding discerning the scriptures, Randy.
There is the Light of Revelation, that is God breathed, exactly as given to the writers.
When ... "Here is what i think it means", gets involved then you have Confusion. And when you have confusion, the Devil is in control.

"well, Behold, who is RIGHT".

A.) PAUL

A.) Pauline Theology.

There is nothing else given by Jesus to the body of Christ that determines how we are to understand all the doctrines of the NT.
The HolySpirit and Paul's doctrine.

"the end".

When a person says....>"well, he's just an apostle"........"and there are others"........then you are dealing with a baby christian or just a theological idiot//heretic.
Brother, I think you're missing my point. I was saying that the use of a particular word can easily find a better synonym or another synonym to better express what may appear to be ambiguous. We're just talking about understanding what a person is saying rather than posting a particular position.

Again... "The words I choose to use are of little consequence. I could use a number of synonyms to suggest the same thing. The "system" God used is *His own device,* or His own application. He created a universe in which human beings can choose to "go south." They can fall away from the environment in which God rules over human decision."

The use of the word "system" may be inadequate for you to understand, but it is irrelevant in light of the fact I can use other words to better inform you about what I mean. God is using "His own device" or "His own application" of wisdom to devise a universe and a creation in which men have Free Will and can lead to negative consequences.

Is God then responsible for those negative consequences? Yes and no. He indirectly caused the negative consequences, ie the fall of man, death, sin, etc. He created the idea, along with the consequences of human disobedience.

But is God responsible, morally, for this development? Of course not. He devised a system in which human obedience leads to God's sense of morality, the opposite of which indicates His displeasure. Negative consequences He devised but only as a form of expressing what He is not, and what He thinks of as immoral.
 
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Behold

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Brother, I think you're missing my point. I was saying that the use of a particular word can easily find a better synonym or another synonym to better express what may appear to be ambiguous. We're just talking about understanding what a person is saying rather than posting a particular position.

When a person comes to my Threads, they are responsible for what they say, and they have to accept that responsibility.
= Me too.
-

Here are some good lyrics..

By : Rich Mullens.

One of my all time favorite believers....

He wrote....

-

There's more that rises in the morning
Than the sun
And more that shines in the night
Than just the moon
It's more than just this fire here
That keeps me warm
In a shelter that is larger
Than this room

And there's a loyalty that's deeper
Than mere sentiments
And a music higher than the songs
That I can sing
The stuff of Earth competes
For the allegiance
I owe only to the Giver
Of all good things

So if I stand let me stand on the promise
That you will pull me through
And if I can't, let me fall on the grace
That first brought me to You
And if I sing let me sing for the joy
That has born in me these songs
And if I weep let it be as a man
Who is longing for his home

There's more that dances on the prairies
Than the wind
More that pulses in the ocean
Than the tide
There's a love that is fiercer
Than the love between friends
More gentle than a mother's
When her baby's at her side
And there's a loyalty that's deeper
Than mere sentiments
And a music higher than the songs
That I can sing
The stuff of Earth competes
For the allegiance
I owe only to the Giver
Of all good things

So if I stand let me stand on the promise
That you will pull me through
And if I can't let me fall on the grace
That first brought me to You
And if I sing let me sing for the joy
That has born in me these songs
And if I weep let it be as a man
Who is longing for his home

And if I stand let me stand on the promise
That you will pull me through
And if I can't let me fall on the grace
That first brought me to You
And if I sing let me sing for the joy
That has born in me these songs
And if I weep let it be as a man
Who is longing for his home
And if I weep let it be as a man
Who is longing for his home
 
Last edited:

DJT_47

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Oct 29, 2022
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Something I've posted here and elsewhere on this subject

Predestination (based upon the foreknowledge of God)

Premise:
God knows the beginning and the end, so therefore he must also know all that will occur within the entire expanse of time including everything that will occur in the middle, between the beginning and the end of time.

Predestination as discussed in the bible (below passages) can therefore be easily explained when taking into consideration the foreknowledge that God possesses as also noted in scripture, which factor is germane to the proper understanding of predestination but is most often, if not always, overlooked and not considered when examining/discussing predestination.

Further, based upon God’s foreknowledge, all things must therefore then be already determined (destiny/fate); how can they not be if God knows the future? How can God know the future if it is fluid, dynamic, and changes, unless such fluidity and change is part of His foreknowledge, which it obviously must be? If things were fluid, dynamic, and/or random and subject to unexpected or unknown constant change to God, God would not know what was going to happen in the future and would not be able nor have been able to predict future events through His prophets. So, if God does know what will happen in the future, the future must already be set or determined and unchangeable (destiny/fate).

This premise further has profound implications when considering things such as prayer. This would have to then mean that God knows that you will (future) be praying for something before you pray for it. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pray for it then, it simply means that the future is already known or has already been determined (due to God’s ‘foreknowledge’ of it), and your prayers, are simply fulfilling that which is already known to God and will occur as does everything else that occurs or will occur (also due to the “foreknowledge” of God). Whatever influences we think we have upon any given thing or subject through prayer or other actions, may in fact be as such, however, such influences are already known to God by His foreknowledge, and have therefore already been determined and are just the fulfillment of that which has already been determined will/should occur.

If God knows the beginning, the end, and as stated everything in between, then one can only conclude that all things have already been determined and are NOT able to be changed (destiny/fate) by prayer or anything else (once again due to the “foreknowledge” of God) and that all things that are done are so done in accordance with God’s plan and predicated upon and consistent with His “foreknowledge”. This is not to say that certain individuals were chosen first as being special or better than others and predestined accordingly, but rather means that once the plan was set into motion (the creation of all things), that the creation itself and related natural unfolding, sequential events, including the actions taken by individuals pursuant to the exercise of their own free will, would result in various things being done and events unfolding as a result thereof, but because God knows what those things will be in advance of them happening due to His “foreknowledge”, and predestination then being consistent with said “foreknowledge. Predestination then is successive to and in harmony with the “foreknowledge” of God.

Jer 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Rom 8 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Pet 1:2 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,