If you want to stay immature and be led by a child, go ahead. I'd like to think that I've progressed further than that.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
I have given you simple answers and look where it has gotten us.
Atonement is salvation. It happened one day in 30AD. That is when Jesus said, "It is finished".
It does not keep happening over and over again for every individual at any instant of their lives. Humans start off heading for death. To avoid death, they turn and walk the other direction. Salvation is complete when that direction ends in their life. We cannot do anything to save ourselves period.
If that does not answer your question, I doubt Jesus standing in front of you will give you a clearer one. Jesus said to follow Him. That is the answer I gave.
Very bizarre, I didn't understand anything that you said. It's like you contradicted yourself three times in those few sentences.
'Atonement is Salvation', yes, the words are almost synonymous and interchangeable. In other words, that was the most redundant statement of the decade, probably longer. You see my point right?
You said, 'To avoid death, humans walk counter to the way that they were walking originally'. And then you said, 'We cannot do anything to save ourselves'. Well, which one is it????
And then you said, 'Salvation is complete when that direction ends in their life', ...which flippin' direction are you talking about at this point, the former or the latter???
My mistake TTF, for even engaging with you. You sound completely out-there.
Is it asking too much Joseph, for you just to answer a question, and quite talking in non-sequiturs and circles. We all know what Scripture says, and it's authority.
Now, Mr. Obvious, are you capable of expounding on anything and actually making a point, or are you just going to keep speaking in clichés like you continuously do, on every post? Yes, I'm scared to even ask!
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Luke 11:13 says otherwise. We are to ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit, for in Romans 8:9 it is apparent, that if one DOESN'T ASK, and then DIE before they do, they shall be classified as "none of His".
Aka, they never did enter INTO the KoG!
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Neither of those verses contradict what I said. If you are not in Christ you are not one of His.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Yes, Atonement by the shedding of His Blood was provided for us. But His Gift of salvation doesn't come to us, until we ASK/accept His Atonement by faith.
The Vehicle of His Atonement is the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Without Him within us, WE ARE NOT saved.
Hence the reason of WHY we are to ASK for the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13.
But, I do follow Jesus, ...it is you that I am rejecting!
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Disagree.
God NAMED...the first creat-ED Man, ADAM, After God Creat-ED MAN.
God NAMED...Woman, ADAM,
After God Brought forth Woman out from man.
Gen 5
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
You changed the point.
I said nothing About Conception.
I spoke of Individuals.
A Conceived Human in a females womb is NOT an Individual, Until it is BORN and Separated from its Mother.
I specifically spoke of "born individual humans" being Entered into "Gods Book of Life."
God says HE, knew us Before we are Created.
Nothing says God Recorded Names of His Creations BEFORE they are BORN and Alive individuals.
Scripture Reveals, Without Gods LIFE in a human, the Individual Human, has NO Life of its Own.
Meaning:
A Human in the process of BEING Created, is not an individual, but Dependent on its Mother.
The Human is Developing and Becoming Prepared to BE an individual. (FLESH, heart, blood, brain, skeleton, organs, etc.)
Severed from its Mother, REQUIRES, that Prepared human, to Receive LIFE From God, for that Human Born Babe's own "individual Prepared LIFE" to Begin. Gods LIFE, given an "individual" is A Soul, and the "individuals" LIFE, is "it's" BLOOD.
It is a BORN, individual Human, With Gods LIFE (soul), and its Own Life (Blood)....that IS ALIVE...and Recorded in Gods Book of LIFE...
And the MAN'S Life (Blood) that is immediately SUBJECT (not condemned) TO DIE.
Gods LIFE in a Soul, Does NOT Die.
Mans LIFE (Blood) SHALL Die.
Gods Book of Life, is the Record of Every individual Human, who was Born Alive, Received Gods LIFE, its own LIFE (Blood) became Alive....and its own Life SHALL Die.
IF and WHEN that Individual Human, grows and Hears and Learns About God AND Rejects GOD, to the day that individuals Blood LIFE Dies, THAT individual's NAME becomes BLOTTED OUT of Gods Book of Life.
The Lambs Book of Life; is Entry of NAMES, of Individual Human men...WHO are already Born, still Alive, Hear, Learn, ABOUT Jesus; CONTINUE Learning and TRUST the discovery That Jesus IS the Christ; and that individual,
Freely elects and chooses TO become Spiritually Crucified ( DEAD and Risen) with and IN, Christ Jesus)...
Such an Individual, Becomes Preserved for ever: Soul Not Subject to Separation From God, the man's Spirit Alive for ever With God, the man's Flesh Body, Subject To Be MADE "Immortal "on the Day the Lord Raises the man's NATURAL Dead body from its dust grave.
A NAME of an Individual ENTERED into the Lambs Book of Life, concerns primarily the man's "spirit" being Born...( his soul, having overcome being subject to death; and His FLESH Body no longer Subject to eternal mortality ).
A mans NAME ONCE ENTERED into the "Lambs Book of Life"...is NEVER Subject to having his Name Blotted Out.
Glory to God,
Taken
Matthew 18:3 "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
"Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Berean Literal Bible and said, "Truly I say to you, if you are not converted and become as the little children, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens. New American Standard Bible
Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; and whoever rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.""Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."
The word erroneously translated "before" is the Greek [apo] which never means "before", but distancing away from, or in better English, "since" or "from" the beginning of the world. According to Greek lexicons (Perschbacher, Moulton, Bauer, Liddell and Scott), the word "from" in both of these passages which is the Greek word "apo," does not carry the idea of "at" or “before.” Perschbacher states in agreement with the others, “apo, prep., forth, from; hence, it variously signifies departure; distance of time or place, avoidance; riddance; derivation from a quarter, source, or material…” Bauer states, 2. of time from--(on), since…” Liddell and Scott has "later of Time, from, after, since." Notice that “at” or “before” are not even listed. The sense of "apo" is "away from," never "before." In spite of these facts, many translations use “before” as the meaning; (see the Living Bible, RSV, TEV, on both 13:8 and 17:8). One could easily see that this is driven by theological presupposition and bias rather than lexical fact. There is no finished Book "at" or "before" the foundation of the world.
So much for the tower of presumption built upon the sands of the word "before" in Revelation 13:8, 17:8.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt that human doctrine and theology used to suppress the Truth on how the book of life happened will cause any to loose their salvation, Thank GOD!
Because whether you accept it or not, and it is not up to you. Jesus paid the Atonement on the cross as the Lamb of God, approached the alter, and presented to God the Lamb's book of Life with the names of every single human since day 6 to the Great White Throne. At that time, in eternity, far removed from creation, before this world was created, this Lamb's book of life was sealed. There have been no additions and no subtracions. It has been sealed and no objections in the universe can refute that fact. The last and 7th seal will not be opened until God says so.
Then and only then will any changes be made. Humans are free, thank God, to believe and make up their own damnation. It does not matter, because God determines all things, not God’s creation.
Because whether you accept it or not, and it is not up to you. Jesus paid the Atonement on the cross as the Lamb of God, approached the alter, and presented to God the Lamb's book of Life with the names of every single human since day 6 to the Great White Throne. At that time, in eternity, far removed from creation, before this world was created, this Lamb's book of life was sealed. There have been no additions and no subtracions. It has been sealed and no objections in the universe can refute that fact. The last and 7th seal will not be opened until God says so.
Then and only then will any changes be made. Humans are free, thank God, to believe and make up their own damnation. It does not matter, because God determines all things, not God’s creation.
The Holy Spirit ... Gods POWER has always been in Every man?
Disagree.
Glory to God,
Taken
Disagree.
What Jesus "FINISHED"...was what He was Sent to Accomplish.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shallaccomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were nowaccomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
John 19:
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
A primary thing JESUS came to do...
Was OFFER Salvation ... that IS Accomplished.
Heb 7:
[27] Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 10:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The OFFERING....has NONE EFFECT upon an Individual that does NOT Accept the Offering.
You imply Gods Offering is Placed Within a Human WITHOUT the mans agreement to Accept the Offer.
^ thus Disagree.
Glory to God,
Taken
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Actually I did not. Christ in you and the Holy Spirit in you are not the same thing.
Having the mind of Christ is only as hard as you are willing to let Christ take over your life.
The Holy Spirit in you does not save. It seals you against the advasary who wants to steal your heart and mind away from God.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
God the Holy Spirit, third person of the trinity, was given to all men freely on the day of Pentecost. After the encounter with the disciples, the Holy Spirit continues God’s promise to seal all humans from conception till the day they die.
God the Son, second person of the trinity. Only begotten of God the Father. Born of a virgin, grew up as Jesus. Baptized by his second cousin John the Baptist. Ministered on earth for 3+ years. Was given 12 disciples, one who sold him out. Died on the Cross as God Himself the Atonement of all humans ever to live and die on the earth. Opened up the temple ending the OT covenant. Went into hell, and resurrected all those who like Abraham had faith in the promised Messiah. Took them to the alter in Heaven. Handed God the Father, His Lamb's book of life with every name of every human, sealed up. This lamb and book was in eternity before this world was formed. Christ then did what He promised his disciples. Thus in the beginning God created the heavens and earth. The earth was without form and void..... In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God, the lamb slain. The lamb is now in the process of opening the 7 seals. 2 have been opened.
Thanks. (Don't agree with all you have said),
I was looking for a simple Answer.
Question: WHO exactly is the Holy Spirit?
Answer: God.
Question: WHO exactly is Christ?
Answer:
The POWER of God.
The SEED of God.
The WISDOM of God.
The SAVIOR.
The QUICKENING Spirit of God.
(More)
1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Luke 2:
[11] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
1 Cor 15:
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made aquickening spirit.
Is the Holy Spirit of God...and Christ NOT One God?
Glory to God,
Taken
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