For some people, choosing Jesus helps alleviate whatever they’re going through. For me however, no god has ever brought me peace in all the issues I’ve ever had in life.
I’m in a strange place: very conservative, but not Christian
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For some people, choosing Jesus helps alleviate whatever they’re going through. For me however, no god has ever brought me peace in all the issues I’ve ever had in life.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
God has brought to me a peace that surpasses any understanding. He can do the same for you if you invite him into your heart.
@Mantis Thanks.........So as somewhat of an expert of the tattoo scene, do you as someone with a conservative outlook for example think that in some states the tattoo industry is somewhat over-regulated?
That’s if you believe in a creator to begin with. Many say, “Yeah but once you find out there is one, then it will be too late.” That is coercion. It’s like me trying to sell you a product claiming your life depends on it and if you don’t buy it, then it will be too late because you haven’t bought it sooner. The same framework can be applied to many practical situations.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
@Mantis I guess for now you haven't really seen the need to apply your conservative thinking to the fact that among many states the whole process of tattoo regulation differs quite considerably....
FYI: Legal status of tattooing in the United States - Wikipedia
Mantis
Well-Known Member
It’s a gift. You are not buying anything. How can it be coercion when it is clearly laid out for you. Choose God and Heaven or the Devil and Hell. One place is awesome and one is not lol. I have no idea why it is all dependent on belief but it is.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
I’m curious as to why you don’t believe in a creator. I mean how could all of this work? A cosmic accident? All of this is obviously designed. Order doesn’t come from chaos. Something just exploded and we ended up on a habitable planet with a sun just the right distance away so we don’t fry? It’s almost laughable to look at all of this and think it just happened by chance. I mean look at the human body. It’s incredible. It’s beyond any computer man could design.
I disagree with heaven being awesome. It would get really boring for me as there would be nothing to strive for. No more challenge, no more incentive to grow. It’s the same as the government lowering the bar for everyone so that everyone can finish in 1st place. You’re against government handouts and support the idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps but on the other side you want to reach a heaven where none of that is needed. To me being in heaven would be akin to having the same meal everyday…except this time it’s even worse because it will be for eternity. What is heaven and hell other than just two sides of the same coin?
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Just because it’s incredible does not imply that there must be a creator. That a logical fallacy, it’s the classic teleological argument. We haven’t ruled out all other options. It just rests safely in the ignorance that we don’t have the answer to everything. Saying that there must either be a creator or everything is just pure chance and randomness is a also a false dichotomy. It’s also biased in the sense that you consider something to be incredible whereas others would not. And I’m not trying to convince you of there not being a creator, rather I’m trying to get you to think critically and rationally about this, objectively.
You know, people used to do the same thing with certain natural phenomena they couldn’t explain such as tsunamis, thunder, earthquakes. They thought Poseidon was behind every tsunami simply because they didn’t know any better. Or Thor was behind thunder and lighting or mother Gaia was upset so that explains earthquakes.
You can of course write this off as ‘just rationalizing’ but that is precisely relinquishing/overlooking your ability to rationalize and reason. It’s like admitting, “You’re not logically wrong, but screw logic, forget about it…even if it’s logically correct. God gave us all a brain, just as long as we don’t use it against him.”
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So is a vaccine mandate then. Don’t you get it? They are only trying to save your life. But refuse, and you lose your job, livelihood, potentially face jail time. The jab is not against you, it’s for you, it’s a gift from the state...because it’s also free. If you disagree here, then all you’re really doing is being selective with the coercion of you. Vaccine mandate is coercion, but heaven/hell are not. Heaven is awesome but so is the vaccine because you get to live longer. Who doesn’t want to go to heaven? Who doesn’t want the vaccine? Do you want to be lying on your deathbed regretting that you didn’t get the vaccine sooner? We should also be grateful about the democrats trying to take our guns since it’s in our best interest. Do you really want to send your kid to a public school given all the mass shootings that have been taking place? Only the situations that align with our beliefs are not coercion.
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Mantis
Well-Known Member
I understand your point of view. All I can say is Jesus is real as he spoke to me. So obviously I think completely different than you now. I am solid in my belief so I can't even entertain the idea of this Earth, Sun, Moon, Stars, Planets, Universe, Life etc. as something that just happened after nothing exploded and created all of this.
As far as heaven, most people don't read the Bible so they have no idea of what heaven is. We will be living on Earth. A restored earth in perfect condition with our creator. Not floating around in the clouds somewhere doing nothing. Anyway that probably just sounds like foolishness to you as you are not a believer so I won't go into that.
As far as heaven, most people don't read the Bible so they have no idea of what heaven is. We will be living on Earth. A restored earth in perfect condition with our creator. Not floating around in the clouds somewhere doing nothing. Anyway that probably just sounds like foolishness to you as you are not a believer so I won't go into that.
I wouldn’t doubt that Jesus spoke to you in your experience. But remember what I was saying, personal experiences vary from person to person. To a Muslim, Muhammed may have came and spoke to them instead. And there are all kinds of states that are not in line from reality from hallucinations, dreams, meditative, and drug induced states. There’s a lot of homeless people talking to themselves and if you ask them who they’re talking to, they would say everything from a god to a demon. My issue with personal experiences is when people don’t realize what I just mentioned regarding personal experiences and they think that theirs is the only valid experience. Not saying that’s you but…it’s just really hard to come by a civil conversation that involves disagreement nowadays. The tribal thinking of, “If they’re not with me, they’re against me!” is really something we haven’t evolved out of even 10,000 years later.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
Well My experience is vastly different as I found the scripture of that experience many years after that when I decided to start reading the Bible. John 10:27 happened to me word for word and I had no knowledge of that scripture existing when it happened to me. It absolutely blew my mind. That erased any chance of that being a hallucination to me. So think what you will. Just consider the possibility that Jesus is very real.
@Mantis I am reminded of Romans 10.17: "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
What is heaven? Where is heaven?
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Psa 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Hugs
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Psa 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Hugs
Speaking of Jerusalem, I got a doozy for you. Christians get along pretty well with the Jews, they’re almost siblings. But Muslims on the other hand, there’s a lot of animosity between the two. Now here is the thing, Jews completely refute the trinity and Jesus being God…just like the Muslims. Jesus is the heart of Christianity. Apparently God’s chosen people refute God himself by refuting the trinity.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
That's why in the book of Revelation Jerusalem is NEW.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Jesus called them (Jews)children of the devil.
Muslims are Arabs. I believe these would fall under the catagory of the Cainanites, Amorites, Jebusites etc..
He also said there were some who claimed they were Jews but were not.
God's true chosen people are of the children of Abraham by faith and not by bloodline.
These be true Israel and not people of a physical location on the earth, but one in spirit of the heart.
Hugs
I don’t know if you knew but the synagogue mass shooter Robert Bower from 2018, had the verse John 8:44 (where Jesus refers to Jews as the children of the devil) on his social media profile. Now Jesus was also a Jew and it’s mentioned in John that salvation is from the Jews. There are just so many questionable things from the Bible, even contradictions..that for one to say there aren’t any, must really have to try to make it all work out. Same with the Qur’an.
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