I’m in a strange place: very conservative, but not Christian

[Romanov2488]

Well since Cain adam's first son went out from Eden also and found a wife in the land of Nod. the only way that could of happened is there were other humans on earth.

So I think there is more to the story than what is known, imo genesis 1 man are not placed into a garden.

Genesis 1
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

I don't think scripture will be fully grasped anytime soon. A example is my thoughts on the day orders I totally believe day 4 is read before day 3 as such 1,2,4,3,5,6 there's no need to wonder how plants grow without sun light but I know I'm the only one who would believe in such a thing

Beauty of scripture I think is it can speak to groups of people or just one person at a time

The wife you’re talking about that Cain found is Awan. His own sister. She’s not mentioned in the Bible, but the Book of Jubilees..according to Abrahamic traditions. Now, whether you dismiss anything that’s not in the Bible is fine. This stuff can be debated to death. To me it’s not all that important…because it all goes back to the main assertion: there is a god.

 

[BeyondET]

It's a wonder if we get much farther. Between gender fluidity and non=heterosexual relationships, I supposw we could safely assume we may see a decrease in the population.
So, looking at the BIG picture, Adam represents God's first begotten son. Eve was betrothed to Adam as his church.
Now the Bible says Adam sis not sin but the woman was in transgression.
I believe this is when the church heads off away the "Lord" qhich is the husband, to go and serve other gods, or what could be called an adulterous relationship with the world.

We see this same argument with Paul in the NT talking about the grat falling away. We hear Jesus' concern "will there be faith found on the earth? "
Adam chose to die for his woman, even though he could of walked away.

Please forgive me, my answers are short and not very well written.
I think I got some kind of smoke poisoning the other day when I severly burnt some toast and the house filled with thick smoke.
Since then I have had the chills, sweats, body aches, headache,numbness in my lips and fingers and toes.
My hands are burning to the touch, I'mextremely tired and I feel week.
I have been taking Tylenol, AppleJuice, plenty of water, Alka Selter Plus Cold Medicine.
There has been improvement since yesterday. Yesterday was bad.
My biggest issue is I have a lot of phlem in my asophogus and Trying to reduce it.

My bed is 3 feet from the computer keyboard. I have written respomses to all these posts with my fingers beneath the covers, wondering why I can't hit send and read what I wrote.
When I "imagine" I'm reding what I posted it's so chaotic and convoluted not one sentence has any rational to it.

I don't know what the symptoms of smoke poisoning is (carbonmanoxide or dioxide)
I just know I feel like crap and aske for your
good thoughts towards me and prayers.

@Romanov2488 I am truly enjoying this discussion and it deserves better than what I am able to focun on at this time.
Thank You for your patience
Hugs

(I wrote this post 3 times already in my bed imagining that I am posting it, I hope this one is real, LOL)

Be careful with the toast I've read burnt toast releases ethanol it can be more toxic than standing at a bus station breathing in exhaust fumes.

 

[Romanov2488]

It's a wonder if we get much farther. Between gender fluidity and non=heterosexual relationships, I supposw we could safely assume we may see a decrease in the population.
So, looking at the BIG picture, Adam represents God's first begotten son. Eve was betrothed to Adam as his church.
Now the Bible says Adam sis not sin but the woman was in transgression.
I believe this is when the church heads off away the "Lord" qhich is the husband, to go and serve other gods, or what could be called an adulterous relationship with the world.

We see this same argument with Paul in the NT talking about the grat falling away. We hear Jesus' concern "will there be faith found on the earth? "
Adam chose to die for his woman, even though he could of walked away.

Please forgive me, my answers are short and not very well written.
I think I got some kind of smoke poisoning the other day when I severly burnt some toast and the house filled with thick smoke.
Since then I have had the chills, sweats, body aches, headache,numbness in my lips and fingers and toes.
My hands are burning to the touch, I'mextremely tired and I feel week.
I have been taking Tylenol, AppleJuice, plenty of water, Alka Selter Plus Cold Medicine.
There has been improvement since yesterday. Yesterday was bad.
My biggest issue is I have a lot of phlem in my asophogus and Trying to reduce it.

My bed is 3 feet from the computer keyboard. I have written respomses to all these posts with my fingers beneath the covers, wondering why I can't hit send and read what I wrote.
When I "imagine" I'm reding what I posted it's so chaotic and convoluted not one sentence has any rational to it.

I don't know what the symptoms of smoke poisoning is (carbonmanoxide or dioxide)
I just know I feel like crap and aske for your
good thoughts towards me and prayers.

@Romanov2488 I am truly enjoying this discussion and it deserves better than what I am able to focun on at this time.
Thank You for your patience
Hugs

(I wrote this post 3 times already in my bed imagining that I am posting it, I hope this one is real, LOL)

Understood, it’s been rather enjoyable talking to people here. I do want to add that much of it has been derailed concerning the very existence of god. Not a whole lot has been said regarding politics.

In my eyes, Christianity belongs mostly on the left. I have debated with enough right wing Christians pointing out to them how Jesus’ teachings go against many conservative policies. It is really strange to me how most atheists are on the left and not the right. The socialistic ideas on the left concerning wealth redistribution, more government involvement…resonates better with Jesus’ teachings.

Former president of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev has said that Jesus was the first socialist. I agree.

I don’t see Jesus telling people to not become too dependent on his handouts and that it would destroy their incentive to better themselves. I don’t see Christianity compatible with conservative policies whatsoever.

 

[BeyondET]

The wife you’re talking about that Cain found is Awan. His own sister. She’s not mentioned in the Bible, but the Book of Jubilees..according to Abrahamic traditions. Now, whether you dismiss anything that’s not in the Bible is fine. This stuff can be debated to death. To me it’s not all that important…because it all goes back to the main assertion: there is a god.

Nay that don't bother me about other writings.

The whole Adam and Eve thing might be just a metaphoric first contact statement.

 

[BeyondET]

Speaking about a Creator I think nature would have a hard time creating a one of kind tree like the rainbow gum tree. What a amazing creation it is, how could something blindly without thought create such beauty Like no other tree in the world

 

[Ziggy]

Understood, it’s been rather enjoyable talking to people here. I do want to add that much of it has been derailed concerning the very existence of god. Not a whole lot has been said regarding politics.

In my eyes, Christianity belongs mostly on the left. I have debated with enough right wing Christians pointing out to them how Jesus’ teachings go against many conservative policies. It is really strange to me how most atheists are on the left and not the right. The socialistic ideas on the left concerning wealth redistribution, more government involvement…resonates better with Jesus’ teachings.

Former president of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev has said that Jesus was the first socialist. I agree.

I don’t see Jesus telling people to not become too dependent on his handouts and that it would destroy their incentive to better themselves. I don’t see Christianity compatible with conservative policies whatsoever.

That's an interesting observation, and yet those on the conservative side would claim the very opposite.
But I can also see how there are many socialist ideas in the bible.
I believe the problem comes with the "definition" of conservative and liberal.
I identify myself in the world of politics as a conservative Republican.
I believe in smaller government control, and more local decisions.
I believe in safe borders for the sake of the citizens living in the country, so we don't become "invaded" and have our own cltures and traditions and beliefs removed.
I believe in the right to life, and that life begins at conception. It's that very spark the begins the processes of an inanimate cell to an animate ..
can't think.. it's growing, growing is the process of life.
Now I also believe if a mother's life or the baby' life in is jeapoardy of iminent death, that there needs to be protocols in place to protect the living mother. I don't believe that life is a choice. I believe life is a gift and should be treated with respect.

In the book of Acts all the people came together and distributed all they had among themselves. And they had all things in common.
Those who had gave to those who had not, but every person still had a function, whether child care, cooking, even construction.
In the OT you can see this played out in the Feasts. Every year people would bring the profits of their increase and would celebrate their bounty before the Lord.
I wish more cities were structured this way.

Greed set in to both parties, and their fame and fortune became more important than the people they were sent to serve.
And this has gotten out of control in my opinion on both sides.
I believe we are all being played, keeping us distracted with these social issues, claiming they have our best interest at heart, when the truth is, they are only in it for themslves.

I don't believe in Big Government controlled by man.
I believe in We the People, For the people, and by the people, providing for ourselves.
Ultimately...
Will we get there?
I don't know.
I have hope.
Hugs

 

[Windmillcharge]

Just because the Bible is a physical book with physical historical accounts who put it together, does not mean that the contents of the Bible itself, are fact. If

Where do you want to begin.
Creation fits what we see and are able to test of the history of the world far better than the evolutionary theories, from mutation rates, population growth, physical geology all fit into a recent creation, while there are numerous problem with trying to explain it via evolution.

Biblical history has consistently beenshown to be accurate, while analysis of the languages, words, pharases used through the Old Testament consistently show that they were not the product of editors writting hundreds of years after th events described.

I challenged you to look at the life, death etc of Jesus.
Is that something you are prepared to do, as Paul writes in Corinthians 'If Christ is not risen we are lying about God '
Can you show that Christianity is a lie?

 

[Ziggy]

To my atheist friends and those who are on the fence:
I'm not allowed to create threads in the General Discussions,
So seeing this topic is concerning belief or no belief in a God, and politics,
I would like to get the listeners thoughts on the video I am posting,
and give me your best analogy of who controls the world and are we headed in the right direction.
If there is no God to set certain rules and perimeters, I suppose men will just keep building towers of Babel.
Thank you for watching, and sharing your comments.
Hugs

 

[Romanov2488]

Where do you want to begin.
Creation fits what we see and are able to test of the history of the world far better than the evolutionary theories, from mutation rates, population growth, physical geology all fit into a recent creation, while there are numerous problem with trying to explain it via evolution.

Biblical history has consistently beenshown to be accurate, while analysis of the languages, words, pharases used through the Old Testament consistently show that they were not the product of editors writting hundreds of years after th events described.

I challenged you to look at the life, death etc of Jesus.
Is that something you are prepared to do, as Paul writes in Corinthians 'If Christ is not risen we are lying about God '
Can you show that Christianity is a lie?

I’m not saying Christianity is a lie. You are asking me to be an anti-theist here, which I am not. I cannot prove that Christianity is a lie or any religion for that matter. But, claims of there being a creator are also just as unsubstantiated as someone claiming there is absolutely no god. This is why all of this is simply called ‘religion’.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Romanov2488]

To my atheist friends and those who are on the fence:
I'm not allowed to create threads in the General Discussions,
So seeing this topic is concerning belief or no belief in a God, and politics,
I would like to get the listeners thoughts on the video I am posting,
and give me your best analogy of who controls the world and are we headed in the right direction.
If there is no God to set certain rules and perimeters, I suppose men will just keep building towers of Babel.
Thank you for watching, and sharing your comments.
Hugs

I just don’t like the idea of worshipping anyone or anything. If you’re against big government, then it also makes sense to be against an authoritative deity and vice versa. Atheism is much more complimentary with conservatism than Christianity is.

Christianity revolves around someone ELSE saving you. It really diminishes individuality. Conservative policies value individuality.

If Jesus could be president, you can be sure you won’t be seeing conservatives get behind him anytime soon.

 

[Ziggy]

I just don’t like the idea of worshipping anyone or anything.

what if your not given a choice?

It doesn't look like the World Economic Forum is interested in what we think, or how we want to live our lives.
At least with christianity, the choice is in your hands.
I know the video is almost an hour long, but I believe it's worth watching even if it's during lunch break.
This effects us all.
Should we allow unelected billionaire elites determine what we eat, what we drive, where we live,
who we should "trust"
That's where we're headed and it's already in motion.
Hugs

 

[Romanov2488]

what if your not given a choice?

It doesn't look like the World Economic Forum is interested in what we think, or how we want to live our lives.
At least with christianity, the choice is in your hands.
I know the video is almost an hour long, but I believe it's worth watching even if it's during lunch break.
This effects us all.
Should we allow unelected billionaire elites determine what we eat, what we drive, where we live,
who we should "trust"
That's where we're headed and it's already in motion.
Hugs

Just because I’m not given a choice doesn’t mean that I still can’t be against it. North Korean citizens don’t have a choice but…they gotta do what they gotta do. Not because they worship Kim Jong, but because they care about their family.

I don’t think there is a choice in Christianity either. You are given the options of going to either heaven or hell. Maybe I don’t to go to heaven or to hell, so I don’t consider that having a choice. You come before God no matter what, you have no choice. You are born in sin no matter what. The choices presented are therefore illusory.

Where is the choice in being an automatic sinner in need of forgiveness?

 

[Ziggy]

View attachment 24586

Jesus also warned us to beware of the leaven of hypocricy.
Covid-19 was patented by Bill Gates in 2015.
This virus is man made. The injection is man made. They have never found an original strain becuase one does not exist.
People were promised, coerced, bribed, threatened with their livlihood, if they should have the audacity to say no.
I am one of those No people.
I am 57 female, I have underlying causes, my main artery is blocked which reduces the flow of blood to my legs.
I asked my doctor could I get an exeption because if there was an adverse effect it might kill me.
She told me, the only exemption in the state of Maine is if one is at risk of anaphaxic shock.
So the only way your going to know if you "qualify" is to take the shot.
I told her I'm good, see you next year.
I haven't been tested, I only wear a mask when a business requires it, I haven't been jabbed or boosted, and I haven't gotten the coof.
I can't give other people what I don't have myself.
And it's all about profits and funding by Pharma and NIH, WHO, all the big players that want to bleed us dry while they're killing us.
Have fun eating synthetic meat, whatever that is.
There is a massive famine coming, and whether you believe the bible or not, this has all been foretold from the beginning.
We will al be convinced that to go to Egypt for corn and our survival, we will put our ownselves under the authority of Pharoah and become the Kingdom's slaves.
History repeats itself from cover to cover. There is no lie in it. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
You will know the truth.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Comparison chart
Conservative versus Liberal comparison chart
Conservative Liberal
Political Views
Right-wing, anti-federalist. Prefer smaller government, less regulation, most services to be provided by the private sector in a free market, and a literal interpretation of the Constitution.

Left-wing, federalist. Prefer more regulation and services like free universal health care to be provided by the government to all citizens.

Economic Views
Government should tax less and spend less. Cutting spending to balance the budget should be the priority. Higher income earners should have an incentive to invest (credits). Charity is the responsibility of the people.

Government should provide more services to the less fortunate (like health care) and increase taxes if necessary. High-income earners should pay a larger percentage of their income as taxes.

Social Views
Opposed to gay marriage, abortion and embryonic stem cell research. Support the right to bear arms, death penalty, and personal responsibility as an individual.

Gay couples to get equal rights like everyone else (e.g. marriage); abortion should be legal; support embryonic stem cell research. Support restrictions and regulation around the right to bear arms.

Personal Responsibility
Individuals should exercise personal responsibility and it is the governments role to hold them accountable even with severe penalties. Laws are enacted to reflect the best interest of the society as a whole.

The people should look to the government to provide a structure. Laws are enacted to protect every individual for an equal society sometimes at the expense of economic freedom if neccessary.

Conservative vs Liberal - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

I would agree with most but not necessarily all.
I believe the people are the government and when we give more power to the government, it seperates them from the people.
I bolded the conservative view according to this chart.
I bolded in red things I don't agree with.
Understanding that whatever power you give to the government to control your life, they also have the power to take away.
And in today's world there is a double standard, rules for thee but not for me.
This is hyprocricy and I can't agree with it.
Hugs

 

[Romanov2488]

Jesus also warned us to beware of the leaven of hypocricy.
Covid-19 was patented by Bill Gates in 2015.
This virus is man made. The injection is man made. They have never found an original strain becuase one does not exist.
People were promised, coerced, bribed, threatened with their livlihood, if they should have the audacity to say no.
I am one of those No people.
I am 57 female, I have underlying causes, my main artery is blocked which reduces the flow of blood to my legs.
I asked my doctor could I get an exeption because if there was an adverse effect it might kill me.
She told me, the only exemption in the state of Maine is if one is at risk of anaphaxic shock.
So the only way your going to know if you "qualify" is to take the shot.
I told her I'm good, see you next year.
I haven't been tested, I only wear a mask when a business requires it, I haven't been jabbed or boosted, and I haven't gotten the coof.
I can't give other people what I don't have myself.
And it's all about profits and funding by Pharma and NIH, WHO, all the big players that want to bleed us dry while they're killing us.
Have fun eating synthetic meat, whatever that is.
There is a massive famine coming, and whether you believe the bible or not, this has all been foretold from the beginning.
We will al be convinced that to go to Egypt for corn and our survival, we will put our ownselves under the authority of Pharoah and become the Kingdom's slaves.
History repeats itself from cover to cover. There is no lie in it. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
You will know the truth.
Hugs

I would not doubt what you said…however conspiracy theories are rampant among the right wing. Another problem I have with other conservatives because people will run with whatever conspiracy theory they can to justify their irrational fears. Evidence of previous conspiracies coming true is not evidence for other conspiracies. This all goes back to the same logical fallacies being made when one asserts the existence of a god.

 

[Enoch111]

Another problem I have with other conservatives because people will run with whatever conspiracy theory they can to justify their irrational fears.

You have assumed that there are no conspiracies. The facts prove otherwise. So when something is a fact, it is not a theory.

The Leftist media love to tell the masses that there are only conspiracy theories, but everything is just hunky-dory. So if you are one of those who blindly accept the lies from the media, then for you there are no conspiracies. The media have deliberately suppressed, distorted, or lied about what has been going on and is still going on. So in fact the mainstream media have CONSPIRED to mislead the public. The Western media are controlled by a handful of billionaires. And they lie to you every day.

 

[Romanov2488]

You have assumed that there are no conspiracies. The facts prove otherwise. So when something is a fact, it is not a theory.

The Leftist media love to tell the masses that there are only conspiracy theories, but everything is just hunky-dory. So if you are one of those who blindly accept the lies from the media, then for you there are no conspiracies. The media have deliberately suppressed, distorted, or lied about what has been going on and is still going on. So in fact the mainstream media have CONSPIRED to mislead the public. The Western media are controlled by a handful of billionaires. And they lie to you every day.

I did not say there are no conspiracies. I said not all conspiracies are true. Just because other conspiracies came true before, it is not evidence that all other conspiracies will come true as well. That’s a logical fallacy.

Those who dismiss all media as lies, and those who take everything the media says as gospel…both have given up on critical thinking. The media is a tool, different media outlets have different biases. You can cross reference sources before arriving at a logical conclusion instead of only tuning in to your daily echo chamber.

The media has a negative reputation, I get it. You have to understand that just like a broken clock, it is still going to tell the right time twice a day. Sometimes the truth just happens to be on the media’s side, so they wouldn’t necessarily have a reason to lie. It’s akin to a liar telling you that 2+2=4. Are you going to say he’s lying? Then your rationale becomes questionable.

 

[Romanov2488]

Speaking about a Creator I think nature would have a hard time creating a one of kind tree like the rainbow gum tree. What a amazing creation it is, how could something blindly without thought create such beauty Like no other tree in the world
View attachment 24580

It’s amazing, yes. What about all the cockroaches and rats though? Rationally speaking, are humans not biased when they say that a flower is beautiful but a rat is a disgusting pest which has to go? I have heard Christians before say that everything else that’s not what they like…is punishment from god, which is a form of bias, logically speaking.

When does a Christian ever look at a rat and say, “What a beautiful thing. God must be behind it.”? You can be sure that instead they would think, “How do I exterminate this rat?” All of a sudden, we have forgotten about God’s creation.

And this is why claims of there being a God is irrational. Not only is the conclusion of there being a god derived from creation the fallacy of begging the question, but that there is also bias involved in choosing the object of our observation to arrive at said conclusion. The individual thus making this type of conclusion, is not being objective…but subjective. And since there are so many other subjects around…is why we end up with 3,000 gods.

This entire thought process that you just witnessed, is how one arrives at being an atheist. Nothing to do with anger of God, or fear of God (as others have suggested). But pure, cold, logic. This is why our religious counterpart does not understand us. How can they see that we have arrived at our conclusion purely out of rationality when they themselves, are not being rational about their own belief in a god?

One cannot be an atheist without being rational. If I was truly angry at God, I would not be an atheist..as I would do more praying, more church going, more repenting, for God to give me peace. It is of no surprise to me when Bible schools warn their pupils of how logic & reason can undermine their faith.

Did I just disprove God’s existence? Of course not. What I have been left with instead…is a lack of belief in god. What do I know in the end truly? I know that I don’t know. And those who think they know and assert that there is a god, are doing nothing more than filling in the gap of not knowing, objectively speaking.

Religion truly is..looking for a black cat inside a dark room that’s not there and saying you found it.

You guys may say, “Yeah well the Bible makes us feel good.” And I too feel good, not from reading your Bible…but from being at the beach. I don’t need to tell myself where all of this came from when it’s right in front of me. We don’t need to know anything in particular..in order to feel. And anyone who claims, “Yeah well, what you could be feeling is some sort of deception.” To that I shall responded with, “Show me the evidence.” What a lot of people don’t understand is that what they believe, does not also have to be the belief of everyone else.

 

[Ziggy]

Cats, wild dogs, foxes, birds of prey, snakes and even certain kinds of arthropods have been known to prey heavily upon mice. Despite this, mice populations remain plentiful. Due to its remarkable adaptability to almost any environment, the mouse is one of the most successful mammalian genera living on Earth today.

Mouse - Wikipedia

Luk 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

Why Do Roaches Exist? | What is the Purpose of a Cockroach?
The main goal of a roach is to feed, breed, and survive. They play a non-negligible role in the eco-life while doing so. Cockroaches are a significant part of the food chain as they are a major food source for small birds, reptiles, and mammals. Roaches are also excellent recyclers and contribute to the disposal of different types of waste.

We might not like them, but God takes care of all his creatures.
There do come times due to man's unsanitary ways, like massive dump sites and rotten food, that these critters become rather unruly and they need to be tamed. They will spread diseases if left unchecked.
And that's all a part of tending the garden.

Hugs

 

[BeyondET]

It’s amazing, yes. What about all the cockroaches and rats though? Rationally speaking, are humans not biased when they say that a flower is beautiful but a rat is a disgusting pest which has to go? I have heard Christians before say that everything else that’s not what they like…is punishment from god, which is a form of bias, logically speaking.

When does a Christian ever look at a rat and say, “What a beautiful thing. God must be behind it.”? You can be sure that instead they would think, “How do I exterminate this rat?” All of a sudden, we have forgotten about God’s creation.

And this is why claims of there being a God is irrational. Not only is the conclusion of there being a god derived from creation the fallacy of begging the question, but that there is also bias involved in choosing the object of our observation to arrive at said conclusion. The individual thus making this type of conclusion, is not being objective…but subjective. And since there are so many other subjects around…is why we end up with 3,000 gods.

This entire thought process that you just witnessed, is how one arrives at being an atheist. Nothing to do with anger of God, or fear of God (as others have suggested). But pure, cold, logic. This is why our religious counterpart does not understand us. How can they see that we have arrived at our conclusion purely out of rationality when they themselves, are not being rational about their own belief in a god?

One cannot be an atheist without being rational. If I was truly angry at God, I would not be an atheist..as I would do more praying, more church going, more repenting, for God to give me peace. It is of no surprise to me when Bible schools warn their pupils of how logic & reason can undermine their faith.

Did I just disprove God’s existence? Of course not. What I have been left with instead…is a lack of belief in god. What do I know in the end truly? I know that I don’t know. And those who think they know and assert that there is a god, are doing nothing more than filling in the gap of not knowing, objectively speaking.

Religion truly is..looking for a black cat inside a dark room that’s not there and saying you found it.

You guys may say, “Yeah well the Bible makes us feel good.” And I too feel good, not from reading your Bible…but from being at the beach. I don’t need to tell myself where all of this came from when it’s right in front of me. We don’t need to know anything in particular..in order to feel. And anyone who claims, “Yeah well, what you could be feeling is some sort of deception.” To that I shall responded with, “Show me the evidence.” What a lot of people don’t understand is that what they believe, does not also have to be the belief of everyone else.

The rat seems a bit less freaky than the roach but let them both be and the rat will eat the roach the rat can have a home keep the roach away lol.

I like the beach as well and your right feelings is in your heart. you dont need alot and I believe your feelings and physical state on this planet has a purpose in life everything does imo.