I ask the Trinitarians and the Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Heart2Soul]

I didn't think that I was, and thus, wanted to be transparent about it. Did I not just use his own approach against him, ...which apparently seems to be acceptable, considering that it's still posted?

There is no way I can go through each thread in its entirety and delete posts. I mainly respond to the ones that get reported. I don't know about the other mods....but he didn't report your post and the only reason I saw it is because you tagged me.

Just so you know I am not making the rules up here is a copy:
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Continued on next post.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Forum Rules continued:

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Christianity Board should be an enjoyable experience. We realize these rules are verbose, but we ultimately had to write them so folks would play by the rules and understand where the lines exist. This forum is a little different from others in that it tries very hard to be a place of Truth and of scholarly wisdom because our Father, YHVH (Yahveh), has so much to offer us through His Word and His love (John 3:15-16).

 

[DNB]

Forum Rules continued:

The consequences of a specific result will depend upon the degree of violation as well as the judged intent. They can result as anything from a warning to a suspension period on to a full ban from the community. It pains us as much as anybody to enforce these rules, so here are a few tips to help you not ever worry about breaking them.

• Cool it! Christ himself told us that he came to divide (Luke 12:51) because Christianity is such and important and powerful issue. Most all of us want to ultimately do what is right. Keep that in mind and if a topic or person makes you mad, step away from the computer for a bit and pray. Cool down before you post a reply or rebuttal.
• Demonstrate why you are a Christian. WWJD (What would Jesus do?) is more than just a good catch phrase. What does the Word say? Are you acting like a true Christian? Ask yourself these questions. Christ tore down, but he rebuilt afterward with Truth.
• It’s not about the last word. A forum is unique in that the entire discussion is arrayed before an audience. There are times when your message is far more powerful when you walk away instead of forcing the issue or trying to get the last jab in for the judges.

Christianity Board should be an enjoyable experience. We realize these rules are verbose, but we ultimately had to write them so folks would play by the rules and understand where the lines exist. This forum is a little different from others in that it tries very hard to be a place of Truth and of scholarly wisdom because our Father, YHVH (Yahveh), has so much to offer us through His Word and His love (John 3:15-16).

Ok, understood, not every post can be scrutinized. Thanks!

 

[FollowHim]

If the Son of God already existed before his incarnation, then he must have already been perfect, but how do you explain this passage? :
And the Messiah increased in wisdom and in greatness and in favor with God and men.

It seems that he was not perfect but he became perfect with time.

One more question: Did the Son of God learn to speak, or did he already speak as a baby?

Simple answer. God's nature does not rely on knowledge or ability to be perfect.

A man is not siful because he has not got a degree, or a child lost because they cry when hurt. For God to become a man He had to grow and learn.

We have no excuse for sin, because Christ walked the same path but perfectly. Equally we have hope because it is possible if we commune with Him . God bless you

 

[DNB]

Simple answer. God's nature does not rely on knowledge or ability to be perfect.

A man is not siful because he has not got a degree, or a child lost because they cry when hurt. For God to become a man He had to grow and learn.

We have no excuse for sin, because Christ walked the same path but perfectly. Equally we have hope because it is possible if we commune with Him . God bless you

I believe that the question was, how can an omniscient being become infallible in knowledge and wisdom. Meaning, perfection cannot be increased upon, therefore, why was their growth in both wisdom & maturity in Jesus. This is an ontological question, in other words, explain your god-man theory.

 

[FollowHim]

I believe that the question was, how can an omniscient being become infallible in knowledge and wisdom. Meaning, perfection cannot be increased upon, therefore, why was their growth in both wisdom & maturity in Jesus. This is an ontological question, in other words, explain your god-man theory.

This is not a theory, this is the nature of the physical incarnation and limitation of the word as opposed to the Father.

A first step is to realise anything that is eternal is part of God. So His attributes, His love, His light, His holiness are not all God but equally God. Jesus was not omniscient, omnipresent and all knowing. He was a man, as limited and frail as us, but God in human form, His essence, eternal yet limited. This had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness. The eternal part which Jesus represented was God's word, His speaking forth things. John expands on this in his gospel. The virgin birth, the walk so close to our own yet perfect, the attitude, flawless. It was the innocent who would become guilty of the worst crimes, and be killed by the most dedicated, yet miss love, justice, mercy, faithfulness. And after all this, Jesus forgave us.

It was to demonstrate God's openness to us at such a deep level, so that we would understand who He really is, and how much love matters. And not alongside other things, but everything, and not compromised, but conquering, humble, serving, broken, yet overwhelming and eternal. To see this is salvation, is eternal life, is the essence of purity and cleansing, of salvation, of the impossible become real. The world cannot see it because to see it is to know Him and be changed. So staggering is the sight, its beauty stays with those who experience it. God bless you.

 

[FollowHim]

A side note is all questions have value because the answer exists though not necessarily accessible.

Think on this idea. All knowing is impossible within time. An infinite numerical series never repeats. To know any point it must be calculated. It would only be infinitely possible to know the infinite variations in infinity.

Within time impossible. This bends the mind, and shows the limitation of our words. God bless you

 

[Davy]

If the Son of God already existed before his incarnation, then he must have already been perfect, but how do you explain this passage? :
And the Messiah increased in wisdom and in greatness and in favor with God and men.

It seems that he was not perfect but he became perfect with time.

One more question: Did the Son of God learn to speak, or did he already speak as a baby?

Silliness, and a mocking.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only,

Good question, but the answer is all bibical. first to Gorow, and was Jesus perfect before coming in the likeness of sinful flesh. the bible is clear on this subject.
#1. the Grow in wisdom question? scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

here, "made himself of no reputation" is the Greek
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

well if one is "EMPTY" or abase then there is only to GROW. and he did that EVERY DAY according to the scripture, Isaiah 50:4 "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned." BINGO.
Isaiah 50:5 "The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back." BINGO again. if one want to learn the missing years of JESUS as a child, well here they are in Isaiah chapter 50. THIS IS HOW JESUS GREW IN WISDOM AND IN STATUE. so our Lord Jesus in a G2758 κενόω kenoo and diverse state, he GREW both physically and he grew in maturity? for God, Jesus his own Spirit, that was not diverse nor G2758 κενόω kenoo taught him DAY BY DAY, see again Isaiah 50:4 & 5. and yes that flesh/body grew also. now to prove that he Jesus GREW physically, again Isaiah... Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." BINGO, so that should answer the OP question

and one other question, what about our Lord not knowing his return date, not even in a glorified state? as i have explain a many of times the "Godly principle of the will"... Bingo.

so when one understand our Lord "diversity" in a G243 allos state, then one will understand many of these question asked.


PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

This is not a theory, this is the nature of the physical incarnation and limitation of the word as opposed to the Father.

A first step is to realise anything that is eternal is part of God. So His attributes, His love, His light, His holiness are not all God but equally God. Jesus was not omniscient, omnipresent and all knowing. He was a man, as limited and frail as us, but God in human form, His essence, eternal yet limited. This had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness. The eternal part which Jesus represented was God's word, His speaking forth things. John expands on this in his gospel. The virgin birth, the walk so close to our own yet perfect, the attitude, flawless. It was the innocent who would become guilty of the worst crimes, and be killed by the most dedicated, yet miss love, justice, mercy, faithfulness. And after all this, Jesus forgave us.

It was to demonstrate God's openness to us at such a deep level, so that we would understand who He really is, and how much love matters. And not alongside other things, but everything, and not compromised, but conquering, humble, serving, broken, yet overwhelming and eternal. To see this is salvation, is eternal life, is the essence of purity and cleansing, of salvation, of the impossible become real. The world cannot see it because to see it is to know Him and be changed. So staggering is the sight, its beauty stays with those who experience it. God bless you.

Sorry FH, despite the semblance of extreme reverence, you didn't quite explain the implausible phenomenon of God becoming man. This is the god-man theory that I was referring to. The Atonement does not work with God propitiating Himself, nor raising Himself from the dead. Although you sounded devout about your position, one cannot be convicted of something that they can't understand.
You didn't explain '...his essence, eternal yet limited..' or '...this had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness..'. Neither predicate is valid, nor feasible. Eternal cannot be limited, that's an oxymoron. And, it was enough that God sent a human saviour, in order to demonstrate His love and forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is not God, nor can he be, it's an impossibility by the laws of deity. and, it saves no one from their sins, for, to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead, not man.

 

[Cooper]

Sorry FH, despite the semblance of extreme reverence, you didn't quite explain the implausible phenomenon of God becoming man. This is the god-man theory that I was referring to. The Atonement does not work with God propitiating Himself, nor raising Himself from the dead. Although you sounded devout about your position, one cannot be convicted of something that they can't understand.
You didn't explain '...his essence, eternal yet limited..' or '...this had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness..'. Neither predicate is valid, nor feasible. Eternal cannot be limited, that's an oxymoron. And, it was enough that God sent a human saviour, in order to demonstrate His love and forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is not God, nor can he be, it's an impossibility by the laws of deity. and, it saves no one from their sins, for, to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead, not man.

GOD........................................................................MAN

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2, 11; 14:33)........................He worshiped the Father (John 17)

He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)...................He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)

He is prayed to (Acts 7:59)........................................He prayed to the Father (John 17)

He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)..........................He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)

He knows all things (John 21:17)................................He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)

He gives eternal life (John 10:28)...............................He died (Rom. 5:8)

All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)............He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

As God, which he was before he came down from heaven, he can do all things. Do not disregard His Old Testament nature while we live in a period of grace, neither must we mock his humanity.

 

[FollowHim]

Sorry FH, despite the semblance of extreme reverence, you didn't quite explain the implausible phenomenon of God becoming man. This is the god-man theory that I was referring to. The Atonement does not work with God propitiating Himself, nor raising Himself from the dead. Although you sounded devout about your position, one cannot be convicted of something that they can't understand.
You didn't explain '...his essence, eternal yet limited..' or '...this had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness..'. Neither predicate is valid, nor feasible. Eternal cannot be limited, that's an oxymoron. And, it was enough that God sent a human saviour, in order to demonstrate His love and forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is not God, nor can he be, it's an impossibility by the laws of deity. and, it saves no one from their sins, for, to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead, not man.

It is true that you can declare what I described as wrong. What maybe you have not understood because only the elect will, the reality is God coming into the life of another.

The basis of this is not logic or reasonableness, but love. And God can limit himself, because that is His choice, as is creating this world. If you choose another way, and do not want to listen to Him, that is your choice.

I follow Jesus because I love Him. Jesus put it that the pure in heart will see Him. God bless you

By the way this is all the testimony of scripture as well as my life. I am not hurt by your dismissing my words, it is just the nature of the gospel.

 

[FollowHim]

The wonder of Jesus is knowing He is God and then thinking how?

The more I read the gospels, in these short books you see ordinary people meeting the Father, as a friend, as Holy, as caring and pure, and like us saying, what, no, how can this be. Peter absurdly wanted to defend Jesus from harm, as a friend would, yet He was speaking to the Lord. Just to get to this place is absurd, yet it shouts the truth of life, love and our failure.

 

[marksman]

If the Son of God already existed before his incarnation, then he must have already been perfect, but how do you explain this passage? :
And the Messiah increased in wisdom and in greatness and in favor with God and men.

It seems that he was not perfect but he became perfect with time.

One more question: Did the Son of God learn to speak, or did he already speak as a baby?

That verse does not indicate that he was not perfect. Like all humans, their knowledge and understanding increase with age (that is the theory). That does not mean they do things wrong. At the age of 12, you are not concerned with things that you might be at the age of 25.

As the bible says he took on human form, I would suggest he had to learn to speak like everyone else.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sorry FH, despite the semblance of extreme reverence, you didn't quite explain the implausible phenomenon of God becoming man. This is the god-man theory that I was referring to. The Atonement does not work with God propitiating Himself, nor raising Himself from the dead. Although you sounded devout about your position, one cannot be convicted of something that they can't understand.
You didn't explain '...his essence, eternal yet limited..' or '...this had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness..'. Neither predicate is valid, nor feasible. Eternal cannot be limited, that's an oxymoron. And, it was enough that God sent a human saviour, in order to demonstrate His love and forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is not God, nor can he be, it's an impossibility by the laws of deity. and, it saves no one from their sins, for, to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead, not man.

Its a legal thing.

 

[Cooper]

Sorry FH, despite the semblance of extreme reverence, you didn't quite explain the implausible phenomenon of God becoming man. This is the god-man theory that I was referring to. The Atonement does not work with God propitiating Himself, nor raising Himself from the dead. Although you sounded devout about your position, one cannot be convicted of something that they can't understand.
You didn't explain '...his essence, eternal yet limited..' or '...this had to be to demonstrate His love and forgiveness..'. Neither predicate is valid, nor feasible. Eternal cannot be limited, that's an oxymoron. And, it was enough that God sent a human saviour, in order to demonstrate His love and forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is not God, nor can he be, it's an impossibility by the laws of deity. and, it saves no one from their sins, for, to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead, not man.

You said God has only raised himself from the dead. Would you like to explain?

 

[Taken]

If the Son of God already existed before his incarnation, then he must have already been perfect, but how do you explain this passage? :
And the Messiah increased in wisdom and in greatness and in favor with God and men.

It seems that he was not perfect but he became perfect with time.

No.
Gods Word IS Perfect Truth, whether or not, a man Hears Gods Word.

Gods Word IS Perfect Truth and Great Wisdom, whether or not, God Withholds His Speaking, Begins Speaking or Increases His Speaking TO men.

One more question: Did the Son of God learn to speak, or did he already speak as a baby?

No.
He did not speak as a Baby.
He began Speaking the Word OF God, as a man to scholarly men at Age 12, for 3 Days, IN the Temple, IN Jerusalem.

Luke 2:
[42] And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
[46] And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
[47] And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

God decides When and How and Where and TO Whom His Word IS Heard.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

GOD........................................................................MAN

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2, 11; 14:33)........................He worshiped the Father (John 17)

He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)...................He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)

He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)........... .........He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)

He is prayed to (Acts 7:59)........................................He prayed to the Father (John 17)

He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)..........................He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)

He knows all things (John 21:17)................................He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)

He gives eternal life (John 10:28)...............................He died (Rom. 5:8)

All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)............He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

As God, which he was before he came down from heaven, he can do all things. Do not disregard His Old Testament nature while we live in a period of grace, neither must we mock his humanity.

only one thing you might would want to reconsider is under the God heading you have the Son of God. the Son of God is the Flesh or the body that was prepared for the Spirit, see Hebrews 10:5. for the Son of God came out of Mary's womb, (flesh and bone with blood). the Son of Man came from heaven, (Spirit). so you might want to swap those two. but over all a good list.

PICJAG.

 

[Taken]

If the Son of God already existed ...

The "Word of God" existed Always.

For 4,000 years, the Word of Gods' NAME was Secret.
It was 2,000 yrs Ago, The Word of Gods' NAME Was Revealed.
Also revealed 2,000 yrs Ago, was that, men Would begin Calling the Word of God...
The Son of God.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why do you call that holy thing, the Son of God?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

GINOLJC, to all.



only one thing you might would want to reconsider is under the God heading you have the Son of God. the Son of God is the Flesh or the body that was prepared for the Spirit, see Hebrews 10:5. for the Son of God came out of Mary's womb, (flesh and bone with blood). the Son of Man came from heaven, (Spirit). so you might want to swap those two. but over all a good list.

PICJAG.

Have done.