I don't think Predestination means Salvation

[CharismaticLady]

God chose one nation to to place His name there.If people were going to be saved it was going to be through the Covenant made with Abraham.
Not everyone in that chosen nation was elected to salvation.
Rom .9:6-11 makes this clear...not all Israel is of Israel.
After the Cross God's elective purpose goes worldwide.
Not everyone is elect, just the multitude the Father has given to the Son.

Isa. 45:4
For Jacob My servant’s sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.

2 Peter 3:9 actually says,
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You added "of the elect" should perish.

Naughty boy! Go stand in the corner!

 

[Tong2020]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

I don't think Predestination means Salvation

If you are taking predestination there as to connote being “chosen” for salvation or being “chosen” for damnation, well I could agree with that statement.

However, I don’t take predestination as connoting election or choosing. For me, the two are quite different matters.

Though I see predestination that is said in Romans 8 and Eph. 1, as pertains to the salvation of God.

Tong
R3945

 

[Tong2020]

How do you know if you are one or not. Not all the Jews were saved, and yet they were God's elect. Isa. 45:4

When one finds himself as can come to Jesus Christ and do come to Jesus Christ, that is, believe in Him, is one of the many indicators that he is among those being saved by God.

Tong
R3946

 

[Tong2020]

Well, you are right! Predestination doesn't mean salvation. Sometimes it means damnation.

Jude 1:4 KJV
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Good call, CharismatiLady!

I think that passage is more of a telling by writing ahead about such men than is a predestination of those men. The NIV seems to better render this:

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Tong
R3947

 

[Lambano]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

Would it be more precise to say that you don't believe Election (being part of God's people) means Salvation?

Predestination is a different animal - and I don't know what "predestination" means to a God who created the space-time continuum we live in, who both sits outside of space and time and yet is active within it, and who "Declares the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10).

 

[Iconoclast]

Isa. 45:4
For Jacob My servant’s sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.

2 Peter 3:9 actually says,
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You added "of the elect" should perish.

Naughty boy! Go stand in the corner!

Both letters by Peter are addressed to the elected saints.
Perhaps you did not notice?
See 2pet.3:1...see it...
Isa 45 does not negate rom9

 

[Cristo Rei]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

Ye, i dunno... Its one of those things where there appears to be contradicting scripture so i can't be certain...
I've always wondered to what extent that predestination is...

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ye, i dunno... Its one of those things where there appears to be contradicting scripture so i can't be certain...
I've always wondered to what extent that predestination is...

It only has to do with Israel, God's "chosen" nation. It has nothing to do with who will be saved. Gentiles have now been grafted into spiritual Israel; those on the path to salvation, but we are still responsible to stay on the path and not stumble. 2 Peter 1:2-11.

This garbage doctrine that if you are predestined to be saved, it doesn't matter how much you sin is a doctrine of demons. A doctrine of demons is any doctrine making one apathetic or defeatist regarding the one thing that separates us from God, and that is sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Both letters by Peter are addressed to the elected saints.
Perhaps you did not notice?
See 2pet.3:1...see it...
Isa 45 does not negate rom9

Do the elect sin?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Would it be more precise to say that you don't believe Election (being part of God's people) means Salvation?

Predestination is a different animal - and I don't know what "predestination" means to a God who created the space-time continuum we live in, who both sits outside of space and time and yet is active within it, and who "Declares the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10).

I believe we must be born again by the Spirit of God. We must be filled with the Spirit, and walk in the Spirit. And not quench the Spirit. And those who love Jesus KEEP His commandments. 1 John 3:21-24

Those who preach predestination in its twisted form know nothing about the true gospel. 1 John 3:5

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't think Predestination means Salvation

If you are taking predestination there as to connote being “chosen” for salvation or being “chosen” for damnation, well I could agree with that statement.

However, I don’t take predestination as connoting election or choosing. For me, the two are quite different matters.

Though I see predestination that is said in Romans 8 and Eph. 1, as pertains to the salvation of God.

Tong
R3945

Ephesians 1:1-12 is an introduction of the certification of the apostles. They are from the chosen nation, and they themselves were chosen by God to be apostles. They are the first to believe. (But one apostle who was chosen, betrayed Jesus.) Was Judas saved because he was predestined?

 

[CharismaticLady]

When one finds himself as can come to Jesus Christ and do come to Jesus Christ, that is, believe in Him, is one of the many indicators that he is among those being saved by God.

Tong
R3946

Yes, but those who love Jesus keep His commandments found in 1 John 3:23.

Tong, it has to do with the Holy Spirit. We must be filled with God, and stay walking in that light. 1 John 1:7

Study 2 Peter 1:2-11; Romans 8:1-9 and 1 John 3 if you truly want to go to heaven.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do the elect sin?

Before you scurry off to another topic,I would like you to first.recognize the topic you are denying. Jesus explained why Judas was chosen....he was of the devil..psalm41:9.....mt26:14-25....jn17:12...but the son Of perdition ;
THAT THE SCRIPTURE MIGHT BE FULFILLED....
See it now CL.???
Can you show a confessional statement saying that elect Christians can habitually sin as much as they want?..

 

[Tong2020]

Ephesians 1:1-12 is an introduction of the certification of the apostles. They are from the chosen nation, and they themselves were chosen by God to be apostles. They are the first to believe. (But one apostle who was chosen, betrayed Jesus.) Was Judas saved because he was predestined?

Was Judas predestined? If so, unto what was he predestined for?

Tong
R3953

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
When one finds himself as can come to Jesus Christ and do come to Jesus Christ, that is, believe in Him, is one of the many indicators that he is among those being saved by God.

Yes, but those who love Jesus keep His commandments found in 1 John 3:23.

Tong, it has to do with the Holy Spirit. We must be filled with God, and stay walking in that light. 1 John 1:7

Study 2 Peter 1:2-11; Romans 8:1-9 and 1 John 3 if you truly want to go to heaven.

<<<Tong, it has to do with the Holy Spirit. >>>

More accurately, it has to do with God - the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

The Father gives to the Son, the Son does the Father’s will regarding those whom He gives to the Son, that is, to give them eternal life and raise them up in the last day. And the Holy Spirit does both the Father and Son’s will regarding them, such as to dwell in them, be their helper and comforter, etc.

Tong
R3954

 

[FHII]

I think that passage is more of a telling by writing ahead about such men than is a predestination of those men. The NIV seems to better render this:

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Tong
R3947

I checked with Biblehub's Strong's Greek Concordance. Upon doing that, all indication seems to favor the KJV over the NIV. They come in stealthily. They are certain men(meaning identified men, at least by the Lord). Long ago they were designated to condemnation.

There is notion about it being written--not that it would really matter -- but with all due respect, I will stick with the KJV. Again, not that it really matters...

I

 

[quietthinker]

All of Humanity is predestined for salvation...none are exempt. That's what the good news proclamation is....thats what the angels told the shepherds on Bethlehem's hills said.

Jesus is the second Adam...a winner all round for all people!.....Jesus never said to anyone, you do not qualify. He forgave before being asked because that's what love does.

We (people) are the ones who disqualify ourselves by refusing life....not God....yet we put it on God for cutting people out.....a nice bit of sleight of hand Satan has convinced people of

Example....when a person suicides they can never say, we did not have life.....they had it and chose to throw it away!
All are in the book of Life yet most insist on being removed.....even God weeps!

 

[CharismaticLady]

<<<Tong, it has to do with the Holy Spirit. >>>

More accurately, it has to do with God - the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

The Father gives to the Son, the Son does the Father’s will regarding those whom He gives to the Son, that is, to give them eternal life and raise them up in the last day. And the Holy Spirit does both the Father and Son’s will regarding them, such as to dwell in them, be their helper and comforter, etc.

Tong
R3954

Why I say it has to do with the Holy Spirit is because the righteousness of the New Covenant of Jesus is through His gift of the Holy Spirit infused new nature, and not the old way of laws engraved on stone that had to be kept to the letter with a sinful nature.

Old Covenant - Ministry of Death
New Covenant - Ministry of the Spirit.

2 Cor. 3:6-11

The people didn't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in them then. Understand?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Was Judas predestined? If so, unto what was he predestined for?

Tong
R3953

To fulfill scripture.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Before you scurry off to another topic,I would like you to first.recognize the topic you are denying. Jesus explained why Judas was chosen....he was of the devil..psalm41:9.....mt26:14-25....jn17:12...but the son Of perdition ;
THAT THE SCRIPTURE MIGHT BE FULFILLED....
See it now CL.???
Can you show a confessional statement saying that elect Christians can habitually sin as much as they want?..

I already know that. But he was still chosen for that role to fulfill scripture.

Have you ever noticed that when scripture says the Father GAVE Me, he is only referring to the 12 apostles and not all that followed afterwards?