I doubt that God incarnated, but believe Jesus is God

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Truther

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How do you arrive at God having a fallen human nature just because He clothed Himself with flesh.
Human nature is not divine.
Human nature is weak.
God does not wear flesh...listen to Jesus himself describing what God is....


John 4:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Do you agree with Jesus' description of God?
 

Truther

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let's summarize these 2 ideas...

Qne group thinks God became an embryonic God, melding a human nature into His divine nature somehow.....fishy!


One thinks God made a redo of the 1st Adam(last Adam, Jesus Christ), to fix the blunders of the 1st Adam.

The last Adam was filled with and led by the Holy Ghost(Luke 4:1) all the way to the cross, assisting him not to sin(then left him alone at the end).

The God of the last Adam raised him from the dead, them made him a quickening spirit.

This quickening spirit was made omnipresent to be able to contain every bit of his God per Col 2:9.

Here is the most amazing act of God through Jesus, the last Adam....


22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


.....God lighting up an eternal heaven THROUGH his only begotten son.(God source, Jesus bulb)
 

Enoch111

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let's summarize these 2 ideas...One group thinks God became an embryonic God, melding a human nature into His divine nature somehow.....fishy! One thinks God made a redo of the 1st Adam(last Adam, Jesus Christ), to fix the blunders of the 1st Adam.
Both ideas are COMPLETELY FALSE and have no basis in Scripture.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, just saw this topic, great. have not read all the replies. so........
Jesus nature?... Spirit, (John 4:24a), never born, Son of man. in flesh "spirit", born, (Matthew 1:23), Son of God . see the difference? lets understand this. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". Form here is the Greek term,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

From definition #2 above, our Lord Jesus have the same Nature "EQUAL" ... WITH, not TO ... but equal "WITH" the Spirit whom we call God. meaning our Lord have or is that SAME ONE Spirit. but by being in the likeness of MAN, (Philippians 2:7), he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself in it, (the flesh). so how could he do that and the world.. the universe continue, (meaning being upheld by his power) if he G2758 κενόω kenoo himself while in flesh? well the word for form, (concerning his "NATURE" answer that for us and everything else concering his nature). in G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n. above, it says the ROOT of this word is Root(s): G3313
ok, what do G3313 means? answer,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
4. (as a participle) participating (i.e. the act of taking part in).
5. a piece (i.e. a limited portion).
6. (of location) a district.
7. (of livelihood) an occupation (i.e. as ones' portion in life).
8. a portion in Jesus (see John 13:8).
{literally or figuratively, in a wide application}
[from an obsolete but more primary form of μείρομαι mȇírȏmai “to get as a section or allotment”]
KJV: behalf, course, coast, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort(-what)

There is our ANSWER in definition #1... "a portion" what's another word for "portion?", answer SHARE. Jesus our Saviour is the ALLOTTED Portion, or the EQUAL "Share" of God in Flesh. for the term "allotted" means, give or apportion (something) to someone as a share or task. God is not a Part of himself, nor is he a separation of himself in parts, NO, he's the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself in flesh.

Lets make this simple. Jesus was Never born, (Spirit), as a matter of fact no Human spirit is BORN of a woman, only our flesh is born of Women. our spirit comes from God and after we die returns to God who gave it in the beginning. so what was "BORN?" answer "FLESH and BONE with BLOOD". so what was born of the Lord Jesus? his flesh that he came in, supportive scripture,
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". was that prepared? yes, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me". now that right there just answered Genesis 1:26 as to the "US" and the "OUR" as to who made man. and God, who is "a" Spirit, ONE.

now knowing that, his titles, "Lord" is his ...... BODY ... Son, on Earth. "LORD" all cap, is his un-G2758 κενόω kenoo Spirit in Heaven, Father. when Jesus on earth in the flesh body say "My Father in heaven", he is simply saying My Spirit in heaven. and the Spirit in heaven says my Son, he's simply saying my Body on earth. supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". while God, Jesus, the Spirit, shared in flesh on earth in a body was speaking to Nicodemus, at the same time was in heaven. BINGO.

now how is this "SHARING" Done? answer "DIFFERENTIATION", and the Greek term that clearly defines this diffrentation of allotted "sharing" is G243 ἄλλος allos (al'-los) in English, "ANOTHER" of oneself, not two, and definitly not three, but one Spirit shared of himself. Jesus the Christ is the EQUAL ALLOTTED "SHARE" of God himself in Flesh. better Known as the "OFFSPRING" or the Diversity of God in flesh. hence my belife, "DIVERSITY", or "diversified oneness". ONE God, ONE PERSON, DIVERSIFIED of himself by the sharing of himself in flesh. and Yes, diversity is in the bible under "Offspring".

so the Nature of our Lord Jesus is "spirit" the "equal" share of God himself, shared in flesh. and now resurrected, and Glorified, now operates without restriction in a body of Glorified flesh and bones, (Luke 24:39). that's it in a nut shell.

PICJAG.
 

prism

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I taught that God incarnated in flesh for about 35 years.

I now think that God did not become a man, but that a man(Jesus Christ, a redo of the 1st Adam) was made God after the resurrection and subsequent Col 2:9 effect on his post resurrection(quickening spirit) body.

Your thoughts, arguments and comments much welcome here....
i
Sorry to hear you are sinking into biblical error...

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
 
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Truther

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i
Sorry to hear you are sinking into biblical error...

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
The word of God was made flesh. Exactly. God’s spoken word was made flesh.
You thought the 2nd person of the trinity became a sperm cell?
 

Truther

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GINOLJC, just saw this topic, great. have not read all the replies. so........
Jesus nature?... Spirit, (John 4:24a), never born, Son of man. in flesh "spirit", born, (Matthew 1:23), Son of God . see the difference? lets understand this. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". Form here is the Greek term,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

From definition #2 above, our Lord Jesus have the same Nature "EQUAL" ... WITH, not TO ... but equal "WITH" the Spirit whom we call God. meaning our Lord have or is that SAME ONE Spirit. but by being in the likeness of MAN, (Philippians 2:7), he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself in it, (the flesh). so how could he do that and the world.. the universe continue, (meaning being upheld by his power) if he G2758 κενόω kenoo himself while in flesh? well the word for form, (concerning his "NATURE" answer that for us and everything else concering his nature). in G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n. above, it says the ROOT of this word is Root(s): G3313
ok, what do G3313 means? answer,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
4. (as a participle) participating (i.e. the act of taking part in).
5. a piece (i.e. a limited portion).
6. (of location) a district.
7. (of livelihood) an occupation (i.e. as ones' portion in life).
8. a portion in Jesus (see John 13:8).
{literally or figuratively, in a wide application}
[from an obsolete but more primary form of μείρομαι mȇírȏmai “to get as a section or allotment”]
KJV: behalf, course, coast, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort(-what)

There is our ANSWER in definition #1... "a portion" what's another word for "portion?", answer SHARE. Jesus our Saviour is the ALLOTTED Portion, or the EQUAL "Share" of God in Flesh. for the term "allotted" means, give or apportion (something) to someone as a share or task. God is not a Part of himself, nor is he a separation of himself in parts, NO, he's the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself in flesh.

Lets make this simple. Jesus was Never born, (Spirit), as a matter of fact no Human spirit is BORN of a woman, only our flesh is born of Women. our spirit comes from God and after we die returns to God who gave it in the beginning. so what was "BORN?" answer "FLESH and BONE with BLOOD". so what was born of the Lord Jesus? his flesh that he came in, supportive scripture,
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". was that prepared? yes, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me". now that right there just answered Genesis 1:26 as to the "US" and the "OUR" as to who made man. and God, who is "a" Spirit, ONE.

now knowing that, his titles, "Lord" is his ...... BODY ... Son, on Earth. "LORD" all cap, is his un-G2758 κενόω kenoo Spirit in Heaven, Father. when Jesus on earth in the flesh body say "My Father in heaven", he is simply saying My Spirit in heaven. and the Spirit in heaven says my Son, he's simply saying my Body on earth. supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". while God, Jesus, the Spirit, shared in flesh on earth in a body was speaking to Nicodemus, at the same time was in heaven. BINGO.

now how is this "SHARING" Done? answer "DIFFERENTIATION", and the Greek term that clearly defines this diffrentation of allotted "sharing" is G243 ἄλλος allos (al'-los) in English, "ANOTHER" of oneself, not two, and definitly not three, but one Spirit shared of himself. Jesus the Christ is the EQUAL ALLOTTED "SHARE" of God himself in Flesh. better Known as the "OFFSPRING" or the Diversity of God in flesh. hence my belife, "DIVERSITY", or "diversified oneness". ONE God, ONE PERSON, DIVERSIFIED of himself by the sharing of himself in flesh. and Yes, diversity is in the bible under "Offspring".

so the Nature of our Lord Jesus is "spirit" the "equal" share of God himself, shared in flesh. and now resurrected, and Glorified, now operates without restriction in a body of Glorified flesh and bones, (Luke 24:39). that's it in a nut shell.

PICJAG.
That was an absolute mess of an explanation.
Thank God you did not write Phil 2.
 

prism

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The word of God was made flesh. Exactly. God’s spoken word was made flesh.
You thought the 2nd person of the trinity became a sperm cell?
No, He became man...

John 1:1,14 KJV
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Truther

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Do you fellas actually believe that God thought it not robbery to be equal with God, God became human, God made Himself reputationless, God humbled Himself to wicked men and devils, God died and God rose again?

Would you tell God that to His face?

I think not.
 

Truther

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No, He became man...

John 1:1,14 KJV
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
God is human???
 

Truther

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Did God mate with Marys egg cell when He became embryonic?
Or, did God become a instant embryo without Mary’s egg?
 

101G

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That was an absolute mess of an explanation.
Thank God you did not write Phil 2.
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, a mess, or is it you cannot understand the truth? so if a mess, then correct it by scripture please.

PICJAG.
 

Truther

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GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, a mess, or is it you cannot understand the truth? so if a mess, then correct it by scripture please.

PICJAG.
Will do.
Pick one....


6 Who(GOD), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with(CO-EQUAL) God:

7 But(GOD) made himself of no reputation, and(GOD) took upon him the form of a servant, and(GOD) was made in the likeness of men:

8 And(GOD) being found in fashion as a(GOD) man, he(GOD) humbled himself(GOD HUMBLED HIMSELF TO SINNERS AND DEVILS), and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross(GOD DIED).

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him(GOD), and given him a name which is above every name(GOD GAVE GOD A NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES)



Or this....


6 Who,(MAN) being in the form of God(ROMANS 5:14), thought it not robbery to be equal with God(SINLESS MAN COMPARES HIMSELF AS EQUAL TO SINLESS GOD):

7 But made himself of no reputation(PERFECT MAN REFUSES SELF ESTEEM), and took upon him the form of a servant(ROLE OF SERVANT), and was made(CREATED AS MAN) in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself(HUMBLE MAN), and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross(DEAD MAN).

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him(A MAN), and given him a name which is above every name(HONORED THE MAN'S NAME)
 

101G

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Will do.
Pick one....


6 Who(GOD), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with(CO-EQUAL) God:
Co-equal? ERROR, so how is Jesus "EQUAL" with God.

now you may answer.

PICJAG
 

Truther

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Jesus is fully God/fully man.
With God all things are possible.
This is how Jesus is God(after resurrecting).....

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit....

Then this...


9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


Causing Jesus to be omnipresent, and the temple of his God, housing all that consists of his God bodily.
 

Truther

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Co-equal? ERROR, so how is Jesus "EQUAL" with God.

now you may answer.

PICJAG
By claiming God is his biological Father. (Also being sinless).

Hopefully you don't think the trinity had a tiff about equality between the Son, then he bolted and became human?....
 

101G

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By claiming God is his biological Father. (Also being sinless).

Hopefully you don't think the trinity had a tiff about equality between the Son, then he bolted and became human?....
ERROR #1, JESUS don't have a Father, so try again. ERROR #2, I have nothing to do with the trinity.

so try again in answering my, your question.

PICJAG.