I doubt that God incarnated, but believe Jesus is God

[stunnedbygrace]

Nobody has presented Phil 2 yet.

Well?

Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

I don't think it helps your cause...

 

[amadeus]

Yes, that's correct, Amadeus!!
I know exactly what you are talking
about.

Experienced the same issues.

Amen, my friend! We are always to stand where we believe, and when it comes to choosing God's Way versus man's way, we like Him cannot be moved. However, sometimes, as it was with Jesus it is time to remain silent [or to speak]. No matter what anyone says to us, other than God Himself, we must stand fast!

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Very good open minded post.

I see two, not three, not 1.

I see God and the man....5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I see something very unique happen to than spirit man(bodily) after he resurrected....45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

I see another phenomenon happen to that man after his resurrection.....9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Which resulted in this phenomenon....
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Simply saying, God lightens the heavens and does everything He does through His son, bodily.

Jesus was made an omnipresent bodily spirit to have his God light up everything though him.

This by default, makes Jesus God.

I like the way you explain it. Without having reading all of the responses and questions of others here, I have no doubt you will be at least questioned... if not worse. Where is charity/love? Hopefully we will see a lot of it as well..?

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Heb 1:5-9

 

[Enoch111]

If you say Jesus is not the biological son of God, then is he the "spiritual" son of God?

Truther, you have descended into nonsense. It is evident that you do not understand spiritual things. Not even the early heretics talked about "the biological son of God". You should just quit before you dig yourself any deeper into foolishness.

And to those who are encouraging Truther in his nonsense, be aware that you become partaker of his evil deeds.

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 John 1:11)

 

[amadeus]

Equally important is the truth that Jesus is God.

I believe that Jesus is God! I have not said otherwise.

If Jesus is less than God, then He could not possibly be the Savior of the world. Nor the Judge of the world.

Equally important is the truth that Jesus is God. If Jesus is less than God, then He could not possibly be the Savior of the world. Nor the Judge of the world.

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

Therefore this doctrine is NOT open for debate. Genuine Christians believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (God in a human body).

Not open for debate? I don't like that word, debate, myself, but what about discussion? What does a person do who simply and sincerely believes something that disagrees with what you or the pastor or a leader or et al believe and really wants what God wants for him?

What is a Christian?
What is a genuine Christian?
Who makes the final judgment on the answers to these questions?

The cults and heretics reject this doctrine, and there is no middle ground.

Indeed the apostle John -- the apostle of love -- sternly reminds Christians that if anyone does not have the true doctrine of Christ, they are to be shunned, because they have neither the Father nor the Son.

You are arguing against the wrong thing here. Neither myself nor the writer of the OP have said we not believe Jesus is God. On the contrary, we believe that He is God. Perhaps you should read more carefully!

... Genuine Christians believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (God in a human body). The cults and heretics reject this doctrine, and there is no middle ground. Indeed the apostle John -- the apostle of love -- sternly reminds Christians that if anyone does not have the true doctrine of Christ, they are to be shunned, because they have neither the Father nor the Son.

Genuine Christian? What is that?

So then you are saying that you necessarily have the true doctrine of Christ in every respect? Anyone who does not have what you have is part of a cult and is a heretic? Do you mean we should listen to you and follow you instead of God? If not, then what are you telling us we should do to please you... unless you are standing in the place of God?

 

[Helen]

No, a preferred man, a biological son of God and son of man(Mary).

A man that is now made a quickening omnipresent spirit and fully indwelled of every bit of his God, bodily.

Good luck to you brother...but you won't win this one.

Bottom line...I do NOT think that The Father is that immature or fussy or is grieved by whatever names we use for Him..be it God , Father, Jesus , Holy Spirit...

God is a 'heart' checker ...He always looks at our heart and intent.

 

[reformed1689]

God witnessed the birth and death of His son before anything was made. God is smart and can do that. God transcends time.

As a matter of fact, Adam was made in the image of the man Christ Jesus. Rom 5:14

Then how did Christ make all things?

 

[amadeus]

JESUS is the Word. It's a title for Christ. He was not created, he has always been. This is a BASIC of the Christian faith. To hold to anything else is heresy.

Heresy? What is this and who decides that someone is a heretic? Who decides what should be done with one determined to be a heretic?

 

[reformed1689]

Heresy? What is this and who decides that someone is a heretic? Who decides what should be done with one determined to be a heretic?

Scripture decides. When you directly go against Scripture you are a heretic.

 

[amadeus]

Good luck to you brother...but you won't win this one.

Bottom line...I do NOT think that The Father is that immature or fussy or is grieved by whatever names we use for Him..be it God , Father, Jesus , Holy Spirit...

God is a 'heart' checker ...He always looks at our heart and intent.

God would indeed be grieved if a person made it too much of an issue for the wrong reasons and insisted that others agree with him. Hopefully no one here ever does that! But... unfortunately I believe that some do it at least at times.

 

[amadeus]

Scripture decides. When you directly go against Scripture you are a heretic.

Scriptures unread in the Book make no decisions. Men make decisions and God makes decisions.

Men's decisions made in their own old spirit are at best temporal. A heretic should be one who knowing what God requires, chooses to go his own way.

 

[reformed1689]

Scriptures unread in the Book make no decisions. Men make decisions and God makes decisions.

Men's decisions made in their own old spirit are at best temporal. A heretic should be one who knowing what God requires, chooses to go his own way.

If the Scriptures say flat out Jesus was God and Jesus was in the beginning with God, then you may not dispute that. And, the Scriptures do, in fact, state just that.

 

[amadeus]

If the Scriptures say flat out Jesus was God and Jesus was in the beginning with God, then you may not dispute that. And, the Scriptures do, in fact, state just that.

Why are you saying this to me? I have never said that Jesus is not God here on this thread or anywhere else.

 

[reformed1689]

Why are you saying this to me? I have never said that Jesus is not God here on this thread or anywhere else.

I didn't say you did.

 

[Truther]

Then how did Christ make all things?

God made all thing THROUGH the man Christ Jesus.

Surely the 1st person did not make all things through the 2nd person?

Surely the 2nd person was not the lone creator as Father watched.

The lamb, Christ Jesus, was slain from the foundation of the world, right?

Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, right?

With that as fact, the man, Christ Jesus, has always been around...as a man.

Just ask Nebuchanezzar.

God loves His only begotten son that much.

Oh, by the way, the son of God had to die before the sacrifices of Abel.

The sacrifices have been from Genesis, to the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ(future sacrifices), a memorial of what happened to Jesus before the world began.

 

[Truther]

Good luck to you brother...but you won't win this one.

Bottom line...I do NOT think that The Father is that immature or fussy or is grieved by whatever names we use for Him..be it God , Father, Jesus , Holy Spirit...

God is a 'heart' checker ...He always looks at our heart and intent.

You may be right.

However, there are those that call the lord Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Yashua, Messiah etc....anything but Jesus.

Maybe I should make up names that are not similar to my wife of 36 years instead of saying her birth name?

Yikes, not a good idea.

Good thing God is not as picky as my wife?....


12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Truther]

Truther, you have descended into nonsense. It is evident that you do not understand spiritual things. Not even the early heretics talked about "the biological son of God". You should just quit before you dig yourself any deeper into foolishness.

And to those who are encouraging Truther in his nonsense, be aware that you become partaker of his evil deeds.

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 John 1:11)

Are you the Pope?

 

[Truther]

May I add?....


17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God....

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:...

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Truther]

I like the way you explain it. Without having reading all of the responses and questions of others here, I have no doubt you will be at least questioned... if not worse. Where is charity/love? Hopefully we will see a lot of it as well..?

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Heb 1:5-9

Why don't we go around saying this anymore?...

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:


This kind of talk was standard in the 1st century.

Folks these days cringe at this verse, then rethink it like this.....


3 Blessed be the God and Father of THE ETERNAL SON WHICH CONCEIVED THE FLESH OF THE 2ND PERSON., who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ouch!

 

[Truther]

Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

I don't think it helps your cause...

That is a funny translation.

God thought it not robbery to be equal with himself.
God gave up His deity.
God humbled himself as a man(baby God).
God died.
God rose from the dead.

Now, try this....

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Man being in the form of God(Rom 5:14).
Man thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Royal man makes himself of no reputation.
Made a man.
Man humbles his perfect self(never sinning).
Man dies.
Man resurrected and exalted by God, given the highest name.


Which makes better sense?