I doubt that God incarnated, but believe Jesus is God

[ScottA]

Was Jesus the son of man per Mary?

It seems to me that you have asked this in a couple of different ways...so I thought I would chime in:

As I was explaining that the scriptures are only an image (the likeness of) what is true on high, the prophecies of Jesus include both likenesses: both that of the Son of God, and also the Son of man. That is because the Son of man is the likeness of the Son of God, who is the image of God. This is where the idea of God incarnate comes from, but "born" is a rather crude term for what it actually means. A better definition would be "of." Just as you are of your father and I am of mine, Jesus was of the Father (of God). But in His case, "born" "of", by definition, assumes too much of the worldly and human example or likeness. In other words, it is fine for us to use the term born for human child birth, but what is born of God is not of the world as we once were, but rather are "of" God and "of" the kingdom of God. The difference, then, is that what is born of God is not a mere image, but is the real thing; while what is born of man is that mere image.

Incidentally, this is the reason that the so-called incarnation of Christ and the path to the kingdom of God is a narrow one. For though there are many who bear the image (are born of the image) of God into this world of imagery, there is only One begotten out of it. Thus, we must come through (or in) Jesus in order to enter the kingdom of God. He is that narrow way.

 

[prism]

Yes, pretty much.
God did not become embryonic.
He had a son per conception, then filled that son with the Holy Ghost and led him likewise(Luke 4:1).
Jesus, God's son, had a God.
Jesus in John 4:24 described his God as a Spirit to someone.(not flesh).
Question, do you agree with Jesus' description of God in John 4:24?

John 4:24 KJV
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Sure I believe God is spirit, yet,... that God chose to take on our humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Colossians 2:9 KJV
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 1:14 KJV
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Truther]

John 4:24 KJV
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Sure I believe God is spirit, yet,... that God chose to take on our humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Colossians 2:9 KJV
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 1:14 KJV
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So would you correct Jesus for omitting Himself in His description of what God consists of?

Why do we correct his description of God as a Spirit today?

Why didn’t Jesus describe God as Spirit/flesh as modern incarnationist do?

 

[Truther]

It seems to me that you have asked this in a couple of different ways...so I thought I would chime in:

As I was explaining that the scriptures are only an image (the likeness of) what is true on high, the prophecies of Jesus include both likenesses: both that of the Son of God, and also the Son of man. That is because the Son of man is the likeness of the Son of God, who is the image of God. This is where the idea of God incarnate comes from, but "born" is a rather crude term for what it actually means. A better definition would be "of." Just as you are of your father and I am of mine, Jesus was of the Father (of God). But in His case, "born" "of", by definition, assumes too much of the worldly and human example or likeness. In other words, it is fine for us to use the term born for human child birth, but what is born of God is not of the world as we once were, but rather are "of" God and "of" the kingdom of God. The difference, then, is that what is born of God is not a mere image, but is the real thing; while what is born of man is that mere image.

Incidentally, this is the reason that the so-called incarnation of Christ and the path to the kingdom of God is a narrow one. For though there are many who bear the image (are born of the image) of God into this world of imagery, there is only One begotten out of it. Thus, we must come through (or in) Jesus in order to enter the kingdom of God. He is that narrow way.

So you reject the literal term Jesus used of Himself as the son of man?

Maybe he used it like son of a gun or something like that?

 

[Truther]

Indeed, there is something fishy about the RCC...but I don't know much about the incarnation doctrine or it's origin. I only know what the scriptures say.

If you look it up(Google), you will see it’s official beginning in the 5th century.

It later became to the professionals as the hypostatic union of God.

Here is something fishier than fishy.

Both oneness and trinitarians are arguing over differing viewpoints of the so called HU doctrine, as the inventor of it(RCC) just smiles as her Protestant daughters bicker over something she started.

Mama RCC is such an instigator, huh?

 

[Truther]

No, but the son of God yes.

So you deny Jesus’ description of Himself as the son of man?

 

[ScottA]

So you reject the literal term Jesus used of Himself as the son of man?

Maybe he used it like son of a gun or something like that?

No, on the contrary, Jesus confirmed/fulfilled the prophesies given and portrayed by Ezekiel.

But be careful with the term "literal", as nothing in the world is anything literal in the kingdom, but is a mere image and likeness.

 

[Truther]

No, on the contrary, Jesus confirmed/fulfilled the prophesies given and portrayed by Ezekiel.

But be careful with the term "literal", as nothing in the world is anything literal in the kingdom, but is a mere image and likeness.

Rather, be careful not using literal use of Jesus’ words, with thousands of varying Christian sects that believe different from each other sharply, competing for your belief in them, with only one author(Jesus).

 

[ScottA]

Rather, be careful not using literal use of Jesus’ words, with thousands of varying Christian sects that believe different from each other sharply, competing for your belief in them, with only one author(Jesus).

The problem is, most define "literal" as "of this world", when Jesus' kingdom is not of this world.

 

[amadeus]

The problem is, most define "literal" as "of this world", when Jesus' kingdom is not of this world.

Similar perhaps to zombies claiming they are alive because they perceive [what does a dead man perceive?] themselves as walking around participating in what men have defined as activities of the living. Does not God has a different take on it? What is reality?

 

[historyb]

I suppose the mystery of God is still a mystery to most, but that is mostly because of presumption of a belief system.

Paul says the mystery is defined via God manifest in the flesh.

There are 3 basic beliefs.

1....God is human Christ (oneness)

2....God and Divine Christ(Trinitarianism)

3....God inside individual of a man Christ....(Bible)

It is important to figure out the mystery, rather than ignore it.

Why must a divine mystery be figured out? Did anyone say it had to be? That is one of the huge problems with western Christianity is that it thinks that every divine mystery must be answered. Heresies come about because an insistence that something fallible man does not understand must be solved as if it needs to be solved. Since the Ancient Church the belief in the Trinity was the orthodox belief, since man decided to go by the Bible alone no belief was good enough. The Athanasian Creed should be enough for any orthodox Christian

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Athanasian Creed - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Truther]

Why must a divine mystery be figured out? Did anyone say it had to be? That is one of the huge problems with western Christianity is that it thinks that every divine mystery must be answered. Heresies come about because an insistence that something fallible man does not understand must be solved as if it needs to be solved. Since the Ancient Church the belief in the Trinity was the orthodox belief, since man decided to go by the Bible alone no belief was good enough. The Athanasian Creed should be enough for any orthodox Christian

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

Athanasian Creed - OrthodoxWiki

The divine mystery is already figured out if you want it. 1 Tim 3:16.....God in the flesh of His son, Jesus.

Where your creed comes in is, they think it is trying to tell us this....

God turned into a God/man, thus your hypothesis above is born.

Now, to eliminate the hypothesis, just say God in Christ, not God became Christ.

 

[prism]

So would you correct Jesus for omitting Himself in His description of what God consists of?

Why do we correct his description of God as a Spirit today?

Why didn’t Jesus describe God as Spirit/flesh as modern incarnationist do?

Jesus is fully God/fully human. I don't know why you have a problem with it. You seem to be gung-ho in getting people to ascribe to your aberrant view. Well, no thanks.
Merry Incarnation Day.

 

[Truther]

The problem is, most define "literal" as "of this world", when Jesus' kingdom is not of this world.

The problem is thousands of denominations or creeds in the last 2000 years posing as The Church.

All because they seek hypothetical points of view.

 

[Truther]

Jesus is fully God/fully human. I don't know why you have a problem with it. You seem to be gung-ho in getting people to ascribe to your aberrant view. Well, no thanks.
Merry Incarnation Day.

Merry God became a sperm cell day to you too.

 

[Truther]

Question to all.

Did God become a man or did God become a microscopic embryo?

 

[Truther]

If God became a man, that must have been murder for Mary to conceive.

Poor kid

 

[prism]

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. KJV

A ·person who does not have the Spirit [or natural person] does not accept the ·truths [things] that come from the Spirit of God. That person thinks they are foolish and cannot understand them, because they can only be ·judged to be true [discerned; assessed] by the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14 EXB

 

[Truther]

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. KJV

A ·person who does not have the Spirit [or natural person] does not accept the ·truths [things] that come from the Spirit of God. That person thinks they are foolish and cannot understand them, because they can only be ·judged to be true [discerned; assessed] by the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14 EXB

RCC creed is truth?

 

[prism]

RCC creed is truth?

No, I gave you Scripture which is True compared to 'your' creed.