I feel bad

[Waiting on him]

Yes, it's all vanity. Even when I point out that I am a complete fraud, I'm still indulging in my own pointless vanity.

Praise the Lord, the sword is sharp and separates the flesh.

 

[Jennifer]

What is persecution???

To imply sly remarks.. to insult someone. Didn't you read the beatitudes where Jesus speaks of this how people accuse abuse and say all kinds of things that are not true about a person.. how they revile against those who belongs to him and come in his flesh etc.

 

[Jennifer]

This is an interesting observation. I don't know how familiar you may be with the gospel narratives, but do you know of any examples where you see Christ joking around? G.K.

Chesterton made a similar observation to yours. He noted that we see no mirth in Christ. He talks of rejoicing at the salvation of the lost. One can assume that when he said to "suffer the children" to come to him, he would have had a smile on his face, but we don't see any descriptions of mirth. We see descriptions of weeping, compassion, righteous indignation, etc., but never mirth. I could be wrong, but there seem to be a lot of people who agree with Chesterton.

I guess Chesterton was not in the presence of him everyday. Just because you don't see it in the gospel doesn't mean his humor could not exist. Unless you are in his presence everyday or was around him in his life you can't say such things don't exist. I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't put on the face of a brick wall everyday shaking his fist at people...

 

[Jennifer]

When I lash out at others, I can safely assume I'm indulging in my persecution complex. I do it all the time, and even when I don't, I still harbor it deep in my heart. It's like that lyric from the Who, e.g. "nobody knows what it's like to be the bad man behind blue eyes..etc" Sometimes I feel like that. Like I'm the designated scapegoat. I make myself out to be such a martyr, but Christ was meek and mild. He saw no reason to justify himself to a world that was already self-condemned.

We truly do not have our battles with flesh and blood, but spirits in high places. It's so easy sometimes to see them just come raging out of people, but it's difficult to remember that the person is not that spirit who is raging at us, but the poor soul who has somehow become afflicted by these horrible spirits. These evil spirits rage against each other, and we end up caught in the crossfire.

Here again, this is where I see the wisdom of Christ's observation that we must deny ourselves. When we do this, it isn't possible to take things personally anymore. Christ sees the demon, and simply casts them out.

A kind word turns away wrath.

And you say that because you know me?

 

[Jennifer]

It's like that ol' saying: "Love is blind, but marriage sees everything".

I don't remember talking about a marriage though. Who is getting married? I'm confused.

 

[Jennifer]

Yes, it's all vanity. Even when I point out that I am a complete fraud, I'm still indulging in my own pointless vanity.

So you say.

 

[Jennifer]

So you say.

What vanity though?

 

[Jennifer]

Praise the Lord, the sword is sharp and separates the flesh.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Jennifer]

I don't know why you guys are jumping at me, I tell it like I see it.. i saw how that guy was persecuting me in his post? Do you think I'm slow or something? Do you think I'm stupid? I know what I saw. He was persecuting me but he did it in a sly way...not literally but slightly....I'm not dumb ok...I saw what he was doing....maybe you are blind...I'm not

 

[shnarkle]

I guess Chesterton was not in the presence of him everyday. Just because you don't see it in the gospel doesn't mean his humor could not exist.

Good point. I wasn't suggesting Jesus couldn't have been happy. The gospel message isn't supposed to make us sad, or miserable. What I was feebly trying to point out is that this fallen sick and twisted world is quickly passing away, and the gospel writers seem to be pointing out that there really is no time to waste with bickering, tit for tat, etc. Jesus isn't messing around, or goofing off with the guys. He's on a mission to realize the gospel. Put another way, the mirth of Christ can only be seen when Christ is revealed in the new creation.

Unless you are in his presence everyday or was around him in his life you can't say such things don't exist.

I don't make that claim. I'm pointing out that when the kingdom is discovered, THAT'S when the rejoicing truly begins. THEN, the entire celestial host of heaven rejoices, and we along with them. Again, we can search each and every gospel narrative, and it is nowhere to be found. It is found instead leaping off the pages and into those who have the ears to hear.

Jesus says to his disciples, "You are the light of the world" because he's communicated the gospel message to them. The love (and mirth) of Christ are broadcast through his body even as it is being persecuted.

People may weep, or even gnash their teeth, but even as Christ falls as he's being persecuted, he can't help pointing out that he is making all things new again. That's our model. It's good that you know that Jesus must have been happy. Feeling his mirth emerging from within in the midst of persecution is how we share it with others.

I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't put on the face of a brick wall everyday shaking his fist at people...

YEP. I think we can both agree the risen Christ is just as eager to let us all in on the punchline so we can all have a good laugh as well. He doesn't light us up just so we can hide his mirth or love from the rest of the world. He lights us up so his love and mirth can shine through in everything we say or do.

He's the light, and I'm the lamp shade that really needs to be removed. The only light that we allow to shine through is due to the holes poked through by a world that has no other desire than to persecute the church. I say, bring it on. Let them persecute us. It only allows the light of Christ to shine all the brighter.

Christians living in first world countries don't know real persecution. Yeah, there's ostracization, there's the harsh words, the verbal abuse, the condemnation, etc. Christians in the middle east look at that like it's a stroll in the park. No doubt it's getting worse, but again I think the best thing one can do is to rest in the fact that Christ can handle it, and believe.

 

[shnarkle]

And you say that because you know me?

No. I wasn't talking about you. If you look at my posts, there's a quite pervasive theme which is that I'm a self absorbed narcissistic fool. People like me have this tendency to make everything about them. I can't help but take everything personally because I'm so selfish and self absorbed. It can only be about you if you can relate to what I'm posting. Otherwise, it has practically nothing to do with you.

I'm trying to work out my "salvation with fear and trembling", and when a worthless sinner like myself starts digging into all the horrid things I've done in my life, it gets really messy, ugly, disturbing, etc. I'm basically one big raw nerve sometimes, and the slightest thing will set me off.

My family is the same way. I'm 3000 miles away from my mother, my sister, and all my cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc. My sister has PTSD so anything anyone says or does she interprets as an attack against her. She starts slamming doors, throwing things, breaking things, etc.,

I run and hide like a coward, and after a few years away from it, I don't think I can ever go back again. She thinks I hate her, but as many times as I've tried to reassure her that I don't hate her and that I wasn't attacking her, she just simply can't believe it. So after a few years she has convinced the rest of the family that I hate them. It's sad, but I don't know what to do. I'm a bit shell shocked as well. I don't think it's right or fair to her for me to be around her if she believes that I hate her. I'm not comfortable with it either.

 

[Earburner]

You are persecuting me here again.. you people think I'm stupid. Maybe you can't see it cause you are the one lost and blinded in Christ.

I doubt it very much! Exhortation and edification by another Christian, is not persecution!!

I think you are just out to look for persecution, in anything that anyone says to you.
I believe that you have not yet learned to discern the difference between your character/emotions and His Character of His Holy Spirit within you.
Your character/emotions is of you, and His Character is of Him, who is Himself dwelling within you.

Paul the Apostle explains the difference very well:
Gal. 5[19] Now the works of the flesh (ourselves)are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit (Himself) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[shnarkle]

What vanity though?

By pointing out that I'm a fraud, I am indulging in my vanity. I am relishing my faults and foibles. It's sick. I'm trying to let go of ego, and letting go of ego becomes an ego trip in itself. I think Paul went through this himself. It's part of the process of self denial. Paul pointed out that he was "the chief of sinners". Sounds quite boastful in a way, don't you think?

The more I look at what's wrong with me, the more I see. Paradoxically, life actually gets better because I'm letting go of what was holding me back; i.e. me. I think God reveals my depravity so I can receive the gift of repentance.

Again, the more I search, the more I see. It seems like the filth just goes on forever, but fortunately, God only gives me what Christ can handle in me. We're all works in progress. I'm just slower than most.

 

[Earburner]

Now, if you are being persecuted for the works of the flesh, the actions or words of your ownself, then YOU ARE NOT being persecuted for the sake of Christ.

However, if you a persecuted for the fruit (works) of the Spirit, the actions or words of Christ through you, then YOU ARE being persecuted for Christ's sake!!

 

[Jennifer]

I doubt it very much! Exhortation and edification by another Christian, is not persecution!!

I think you are just out to look for persecution, in anything that anyone says to you.
I believe that you have not yet learned to discern the difference between your character/emotions and His Character of His Holy Spirit within you.
Your character/emotions is of you, and His Character is of Him, who is Himself dwelling within you.

Paul the Apostle explains the difference very well:
Gal. 5[19] Now the works of the flesh (ourselves)are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit (Himself) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 12

 

[Jennifer]

By pointing out that I'm a fraud, I am indulging in my vanity. I am relishing my faults and foibles. It's sick. I'm trying to let go of ego, and letting go of ego becomes an ego trip in itself. I think Paul went through this himself. It's part of the process of self denial. Paul pointed out that he was "the chief of sinners". Sounds quite boastful in a way, don't you think?

The more I look at what's wrong with me, the more I see. Paradoxically, life actually gets better because I'm letting go of what was holding me back; i.e. me. I think God reveals my depravity so I can receive the gift of repentance.

Again, the more I search, the more I see. It seems like the filth just goes on forever, but fortunately, God only gives me what Christ can handle in me. We're all works in progress. I'm just slower than most.

I understand but not everyone expierenced a life...we are called to serve and work but we also have to rest too..nothing wrong with resting in his love....

 

[Jennifer]

2 Corinthians 12

And you need to stop persecuting me...or whatever you are doing....

 

[Nancy]

No. I wasn't talking about you. If you look at my posts, there's a quite pervasive theme which is that I'm a self absorbed narcissistic fool. People like me have this tendency to make everything about them. I can't help but take everything personally because I'm so selfish and self absorbed. It can only be about you if you can relate to what I'm posting. Otherwise, it has practically nothing to do with you.

I'm trying to work out my "salvation with fear and trembling", and when a worthless sinner like myself starts digging into all the horrid things I've done in my life, it gets really messy, ugly, disturbing, etc. I'm basically one big raw nerve sometimes, and the slightest thing will set me off.

My family is the same way. I'm 3000 miles away from my mother, my sister, and all my cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc. My sister has PTSD so anything anyone says or does she interprets as an attack against her. She starts slamming doors, throwing things, breaking things, etc.,

I run and hide like a coward, and after a few years away from it, I don't think I can ever go back again. She thinks I hate her, but as many times as I've tried to reassure her that I don't hate her and that I wasn't attacking her, she just simply can't believe it. So after a few years she has convinced the rest of the family that I hate them. It's sad, but I don't know what to do. I'm a bit shell shocked as well. I don't think it's right or fair to her for me to be around her if she believes that I hate her. I'm not comfortable with it either.

Wow @Snarkle , do you come from my own family or what!! Not so much the narcissistic tendencies but the others YES. My mom had 7 of us and, her prayers for our salvation (even though she never lived to see but one of us saved) we have all come to The Lord. We are a sensitive bunch and battle it daily, especially the explosiveness...we tend to hold things in until they just blast out of us. It is rare that I do that anymore and if I do, it is when I am alone so, my poor dogs have to put up with my tirades, and usually over the very smallest of things can set us off.
I myself was such a selfish person for most of my life and it has taken decades to overcome, I most surely am quite a different person now. I'm sorry about your family and their distance (literally and figuratively) but then, Jesus said that He would be the cause of much division between family members. The only reason that God has brought me so far from whence I come is total surrender of all that was holding me back. I needed to believe what HE say's about me...was not easy because it was such a slow and gradual process. Just the fact that you admit all you have on here, tells me that you have humility of heart and desire His ways. That is the (pretty much) only prayer I have for myself: To desire His will over mine and...it has finally happened.
"a worthless sinner like myself starts digging into all the horrid things I've done in my life, it gets really messy, ugly, disturbing, etc. I'm basically one big raw nerve sometimes, and the slightest thing will set me off. "
This, to me shows that the Holy Spirit has been shining His light inside you and showing the hidden things in the darkness to you that you need to pray deliverance from...believe what He say's about you, not what Satan would have you believe. They are all lies. It used to be when I awoke in the morning, I must have sinned like 20 times before hitting the floor...and that stayed with me the whole day. NOW, before I get out of bed I say "I choose this day to experience His joy and to be grateful for all that He has given me", who deserves NOTHING good from Him yet, He still gives all good things.

"So after a few years she has convinced the rest of the family that I hate them. It's sad, but I don't know what to do." <---PRAYER, simple prayer...does not need to be fancy, you do not even have to use words just ask Him to look into your heart and see that you DO want to have His joy and His truth about you and that "believing" He DOES change hearts and minds...just pray for your family and simply thank Him that He always hears...exercise your faith and watch Him work. In His time all things work together for the good to those who love Him. I think our biggest problem is not seeing immediate answers (though, sometimes we will!) and that is where Satan gets into your head feeding you lies...just remember, God does NOT condemn you, your heart is getting right with Him. You and your family could be thousands of miles apart but...distance is nothing to God, He WILL answer your prayers as they are His will...He restores relationships and softens hearts and changes even the most rebellious minds. I know, because I was a whole lot like you, AND your sister with the lashing out, throwing things, kicking things and such. Oh I do NOT miss that!!! You are no officially on my prayer list brother.

 

[Helen]

There have been a number of times when I began to say something to a group of people, and could see that nobody was going to be able to receive what I was saying because it was without the spirit so I would just cut it short. Someone else would usually be able to say the exact same thing with the spirit, and it would be received.

The Spirit is able to move in those who can receive God's gifts. I'm afraid my problem is that I don't spend enough time putting myself in a position to receive God's gifts. I spend too much time fretting over the cares of the world. Instead of seeing what God would have me do, I'm thinking about what I want to do.

People walk all over us and after we've gotten packed down enough, people start using us as a freeway. The gospel still comes flying over us like bees looking for flowers to pollinate, but they just end up spattered across all those windshields.

Somehow, God gets through, and we start getting pot holes, and eventually it all starts to crumble and get broken up which as painful as it may seem is usually the only way anything can start to grow. The world beats us up, and we become fertile soil for the gospel to be implanted in us.

The world wants us dead, and when we begin to want to die ourselves, God hands us the gift of repentance. What the world means for evil, God uses for his purposes. So even though our self will may get us into a lot of trouble, God uses it to turn us back to him. The dice of God are always loaded.

Agree 100%

I found out early that so often God didn't need my helping hand as much as I thought that He did..in directing his own sheep ..
His sheep can here His voice.
We may observe and be dead on correct on an issue...but timing can be off if we speak or move too soon.

A little line which is good is- " Always Pray, but don't always Say"

How many time have we 'helped God'...like poor old Uzzah , who though he was 'saving the Ark' from falling. Yikes.
How awesome and patient is our Father ..✟ His timing is perfect.

Blessings....H

 

[Helen]

What is persecution???

Very good and wise question.
Agree and would like to know... between us we can probably come up with many different definitions. lol
In this thread, what are 'we' all talking and thinking about when we use or read the word persecution ...on Forums??
(We all know what it means for China and Russia right now...and our Christian brethren over there right now..)
...