I have a question that remains unanswered:
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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You have answered here Barney but also with presumptions built into your answer. I guess we all do that. Different ATs [Absolute Truths] for each one on which to build what? An answer to anyone's questions? What is the answer to the ultimate question of why God , the God, did what He did?Yes, but sin began in Heaven. God fashioned His creatures with free will and a measure of creativity, which Lucifer used to craft pride.
The origin of sin cannot truly be explained. To explain it would be to excuse it.
Why? Because creatures who are programmed to love can't really love. They're just robots. Not very good companions.
I have my own answers, which as someone will say probably correctly as well, contain also some of those ATs!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Unless they're not
We are one? People don't say that in this context--they say "We're of one mind." Your declaration doesn't make it figurative. Scripture is to be taken literally unless other interpretations are indicated.
I don't take any one text as explicit or conclusive as teaching that God is three Persons. Poor hermeneutics.
Baloney. Because you say so?
True in a sense, yet not true at all. Jesus showed the Emmaus road mourners all things concerning Himself from the Old Testament.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, not necessarily logically.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's all I've heard from you on the topic.
Did you have a response to my question that was directed to you?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
You're holding out on me, John. What presumptions?
I'm not sure I believe in ATs the way I think you mean it. Except that Christ is Truth (and the Way, and the Life, of course).
I've got a theory but it involves what folks call trinitarianism, I guess.
The Father, Son, and Spirit were existing in eternity past (whatever that is), loving each other because God is love, and they decided their love was too good to keep to themselves so they started creating sentient beings to share it with. And this is how it is that human beings (the union of male and female) were created in the image of God because we love each other so much that we procreate beings to share it with.
Just a theory
This is one example of a truly hilarious thing, can John 13:34 be used to prove that Jesus commanded us to love one another? I suppose not, it only proves that Jesus is the Messiah. Moreover nothing John wrote can be used to prove that nothing John wrote can be used to prove anything else, including anything and everything Wrangler has ever tried to prove using it.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I thought, perhaps, that this question was going deeper than the sin thing.
As the principle goes "goodness overflows," so because God is good it only makes sense that He would communicate this goodness outside of Himself to others, and as there was no one besides Him He gifted the intrinsically good gift of existence to us all, so that we could share in it (2 Peter 1:4, "partakers in the divine nature"). People who love others and are good gift themselves to others as well (Proverbs 3:27, Matthew 23:11, John 15:13, Ephesians 5:21, etc). A truly beautiful thing God has done here. I'd say your theory is correct if what we are commanded to be and to do and were created as has any reflection on what God is, does, and always has.
You're holding out on me, John. What presumptions?
Sin, heaven, free will, Lucifer, and so forth. What are they? To even really communicate clearly we must already know what the other fellow means. Since we have had discussions before I have an idea in your case on each one. You may recall a little of where I am...
If our friend, @bbyrd009 were to get involved he might help us understand what we do not understand. You need to remember Nehushtan. Many people latch onto that and call it the Word of God, but King Hezekiah destroyed it [II Kings 18:4]. He certainly did not destroy the Word of God, did he? I believe that just about any real believer, including @bbyrd009 has some ATs of which they are unaware or they would insists that their ATs are very simply the Truth.
Jesus said that he is the Truth and I believe that. If I cannot go down to nothing from that then would that not be for me an AT?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
If you open your heart you will hear better - hard heart also effects hearing.
YES, i replied to you in post #619 - yours was #616
Here again, is my reply to your post #616
AMEN to "Do not add to His words lest i be rebuked and be proven a liar" - AGREE - How about you?
How about you? Do you accept the Truth Challenge set forth by our Lord in Deut 4:1-2 and Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19?
The beginning of Proverbs 30: 5-6 starts with verse 5
Every word of God is Pure
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him
Let us together take refuge in His Pure Word - Agree?
When we get into "time" with regard to God it might get complicated just trying to explain ourselves. Even though I do not embrace Trinitarianism I understand what your are saying. Of course, as you say, for you it is just a theory or perhaps speculation.I've got a theory but it involves what folks call trinitarianism, I guess.
The Father, Son, and Spirit were existing in eternity past (whatever that is), loving each other because God is love, and they decided their love was too good to keep to themselves so they started creating sentient beings to share it with. And this is how it is that human beings (the union of male and female) were created in the image of God because we love each other so much that we procreate beings to share it with.
Just a theory
Consider that when God created man, there was only one being, one body. It was our old friend from here @Giuliano [no longer with us] who pointed out that initially Adam contained all of the attributes of the male and the female of human beings. But then as we know God removed a part of the totality of Adam make the Woman leaving behind the Man. In order to be complete both parts were necessary.
God did not want the man to be alone in the one sense, but then as Jesus expressed it we see the need for them to come back together as they were before even there were two of them...?
"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Matt 19:4-6
Now that could get complicated, could it not, but it was no trinity, but rather perhaps a duality...or?
It is all really simple, that is simple to God! Is it so simply to you and me? Hmmm?
I may have told you once that I lean toward a duality in God rather than a trinity.
Yes, perhaps but where would we go with it and again there is that question: Why?I thought, perhaps, that this question was going deeper than the sin thing.
I see the Father, center, as an old, white-haired man. At my left, I see the King of Glory, Yeshua, also white-haired. At my right I don't see anyone, though someone talks to me from there, and at times, He makes funny noises! Lol
It is really simple... for God! It is complicated for us unless and if God chooses to clarify it a bit. Sometimes He does, but we should not expect Him to do that just to satisfy our curiosity. There needs to be a need as God understands needs. People too often mix up their wants with their needs.
Perhaps there is hope for us to understand these things, St. Paul says: "'For who has known the mind of the Lord; who has advised him?' But we have the mind of Christ."
But not yet: "For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known," and "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and have not entered into the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him."
May the Lord grant us this and more in His perfect time! Amen.
I tried to understand Him, but I got more headaches...I could feel my brain cells start to stretch...any second they were going to start snapping...snap, crackle, pop! Since I didn't want my head to sound like the breakfast table, I stopped thinking so much! Lol
