I have difficulty believing that souls will be damned to the Lake of Fire

[Johann]

And the kicker is , THIS AINT NO MOVIE, ITS REAL and ITS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW .

It's happening for a long time, just have a look at what is happening on this forum, yes?
The movies are the same, I have listened to the whole YouTube clip.
J.

 

[FactsPlease]

They had only FIRE to completely destroy with. It was used as a symbol. It is not literal, unless Jesus will use it to... completely destroy at his 'coming'...

 

[quietthinker]

Destroy or Dead are synonymous and mean just that?
Just what?

Not difficult to understand?
Just Speaking A word is not, the meaning of the Word.

What you call a “spin”...is in fact our difference OF what a word means...
* according TO Scriptural CONTEXT..
* according TO mans Natural UNDERSTANDING...
* according TO Gods Supernatural UNDERSTANDING...

No clue WHAT Destroy means TO you, you didn’t say.
No clue WHAT Dead means TO you, you didn’t say.

No clue WHAT YOU believe Destroy means TO God, you didn’t say.
No clue WHAT you believe Dead means to God, you didn’t say.

Enlighten me “according to your non difficult Understanding”
Of what those words mean, according to YOU and God....eh?

Destroy meaning...according to you?
Dead meaning...according to you?
Destroy meaning...according to God?
Dead meaning ...according to God?

Thanks,
Taken

Any dictionary will tell you. It's as clear as day is day and night is night and is totally unnecessary to engage a juggling game in the attempt to make black mean white and white mean black by employing the same tricks (sleight of hand) the serpent did with Eve.

 

[Taken]

Any dictionary will tell you. It's as clear as day is day and night is night and is totally unnecessary to engage a juggling game in the attempt to make black mean white and white mean black by employing the same tricks (sleight of hand) the serpent did with Eve.

Ok...not interested to play dodgeball with you.

 

[FactsPlease]

If you know what Jesus was really saying there you would have a very different opinion of his statement.
The first problem is the words that are translated "hell" in English versions of the Bible.

"Hell" is a word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew word sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes.
In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once. These are not a good translations if the word "hell" doesn't represent what has been taught in Christendom for centuries.

No wonder that fear there is engendered by the mere mention of the word.

Interestingly, The Encyclopedia Americana said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”
Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.
To render "sheol" "hades" and "gehenna" as "Hell" is entirely misleading.
The following quote from the KJV is a classic example....

Which word is Jesus referring to here? It is not "sheol" or "hades" but "gehenna".....a place that Jesus' Jewish audience knew all too well, because to them it did not mean eternal torture in a hell of fire, but simply eternal death. So where do the symbolisms come from? What did the Jews understand Jesus' words to mean?

In the early days when unfaithful Israel had left off true worship and adopted the worship of Baal, the Israelites even went so far as to sacrifice their own children to this false god in the Valley of Hinnom.
God's comment on this was recorded by the prophet Jeremiah where He said....
"They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’

32 “‘Therefore look! the days are coming,’ declares Jehovah, ‘when it will no longer be called Toʹpheth or the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom but the Valley of the Slaughter. They will bury in Toʹpheth until there is no place left." (Jeremiah 7:31-32)

So God turned this 'Valley of Slaughter' into a place where the dead will fill it up....but how?

This valley was turned into Jerusalem's garbage dump where fires were kept burning day and night to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of the wicked....those not considered worthy of a decent burial, were cast into the flames for disposal.....what the flames missed, the maggots would finish off. So this is where the symbolisms come from. The Jews understood exactly what "gehenna" was, and since they had no belief in life after death, their hope was in a future resurrection. (which was a return to life, NOT a continuation of it in another form, somewhere else.) Even to this day, Jews will have elaborate burial places with their names and family lineage clearly inscribed because without such a memorial to attest to their existence, no one would remember that they ever lived. This ensured that God would not forget them in the resurrection, which they believed was to a restoration of life on earth under Messiah's Kingdom. He even gave the Jews first option to become "kings and priests" in his kingdom, but sadly only a "remnant" responded as it was prophesied. (Isa 10:22-23; Rom 9:27-28)

Since the Jewish nation as a whole rejected their Messiah and even cursed themselves and their children with his blood, (Matthew 27:25) this valley would soon be filled up with those responsible for the murder of their Messiah. Those who saw the miracles that the holy spirit performed through Christ and his apostles, and yet still cried out for his murder, how is that forgivable?

Yet, there is no 'hell of eternal flames and torture'.....even for the wicked....that is a satanic lie!
God has already stated that such a thing never entered his mind.....he is a God of love and would never torture anyone for any reason.
Not a single penalty under God's law involved torture, and in ancient Israel, they had no places of incarceration....no prisons. Both of these concepts were entirely missing from Jewish thought, but were in evidence in cultures who worshipped false gods.

Jehovah offered his people only two choices...life or death based on obedience to his commands....that's it. (Deut 30:19-20)
Death is the opposite of life, and 'everlasting death' is the opposite of 'everlasting life'. There is no such place as "hell".....the dead are in a place of rest, which is what "sheol" and 'hades" mean....it is the place of unconscious inactivity....from which Jesus will call the all the dead when his Kingdom rules the earth as he promised. (Eccl 9:5, 10; John 5:28-29) Those in "hades" will rise....those in "gehenna" will not. Its that simple....and only God knows who is in which place.

Don't you know Adam didn't die- but is on fire to this day? (heh)

 

[quietthinker]

Clever presentation indeed. Notice however the starting block, a request for money. Of course it's to advance the following message......very clever!

I s'pose when Jesus got his ministry underway he used the same starting block? Whadya say?

 

[quietthinker]

Ok...not interested to play dodgeball with you.

Exposure!.....no, self exposure is intolerable to those intent and set on peddling the lie.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Don't you know Adam didn't die- but is on fire to this day? (heh)

Funny how God never mentioned this....? An oversight on his part no doubt....

 

[The Learner]

See Study 02 - 13 Bible Studies (PDF), Prophecy, History, Theology, Legacy by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

or also see:

QUESTION: WAS MANKIND (ADAM) CREATED WITH AN IMMORTAL “SOUL”, OR WAS MANKIND (ADAM) CREATED AS A “LIVING SOUL” FROM SOMETHING?

​

[A.] Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (see also 1 Corinthians 15:45; Acts 17:25; Job 12:10)​

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[1.] “the dust of the ground” + [2.] “the breath of life (of God)” “breathed into his nostrils” = [3.] “man became a living soul”.​

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[B.] Gen 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:​

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[C.] Job 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?​

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[D.] Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;​

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[E.] Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

QUESTION: WHAT IS A SOUL (LIVING or DEAD)?

A “soul” (H5315, G5590; Leviticus 22:11; Hebrews 4:12) is a “life” (Genesis 9:5; Matthew 6:25; Luke 9:56; Acts 15:26, 27:10; 1 John 3:16; Revelation 12:11, &c.), “person/s” (Genesis 14:21; Numbers 5:6, &c.), “creature” (Genesis 1:21,24; Leviticus 11:46, &c.), or “beast” (Leviticus 24:18). It can also be defined as a “being”.​

QUESTION: IF MANKIND (ADAM), WHEN ALIVE, IS A “LIVING SOUL”, ARE “BEASTS” THAT ARE ALIVE ALSO “LIVING SOULS”?

Num 31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:​

​

See also Joshua 6, 10 & 11, in every instance where it is written that Joshua destroyed “all the souls that were therein” (Joshua 6:21, 10:28,30,32,35,37,39-40, 11:11) it included both “persons” (mankind) and “beeves”, “asses”, “sheep”, &c of the “beasts” that were in those cities.​

QUESTION: CAN A “LIVING SOUL” DIE AND BECOME A “DEAD” SOUL, HAVING NO LIFE ANYMORE?

Yes, see “dead”: Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 22:4; Numbers 5:2, 6:11, 9:6-7 (2),10. If the “dust of the ground” from which any “living soul” is “formed” is destroyed or damaged beyond sustaining life, or if the “breath of life (of God)” is taken back by God, that “living soul” becomes a dead soul (person, creature, beast, being):​

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[A.] Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.​

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[B.] Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.​

​

[C.] Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.​

QUESTION: IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MANKIND AND BEAST IN DEATH?

[A.] Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​

​

[B.] Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (for Catholics, see ‘Ash Wednesday’, “Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”)​

​

[C.] Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.​

​

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.​

QUESTION: ARE MANKIND (“LIVING SOULS”) WHICH ARE ALIVE, “MORTAL” OR “IMMORTAL”?

Job_4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? (see also Romans 6:12, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:53-54; 2 Corinthians 4:11)​

QUESTION: IF MANKIND HAS LIFE CONDITIONALLY, WHERE DID THE TEACHING OF “IMMORTAL SOUL/SPIRIT” COME FROM?

[A.] Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:​

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[B.] Rev_12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (see also Revelation 20:2)​

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[C.] Lev_20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.​

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[D.] 1Ch_10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;​

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[E.] 1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;​

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[F.] Rev_16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.​

QUESTION: IS THERE ANYONE IN THE BIBLE WHO HAS IMMORTALITY, OR IS INHERENTLY IMMORTAL?

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;​

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1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.​

The Beasts were not given the image of God, people were, are.

or

beasts got morring breathe, people got fresh breathe.

 

[The Learner]

God can choose to become non-omniscient and non-benevolent?

Isaiah 43:25
“I, I am the one who wipes away all your sins. I do this to please myself. I will not remember your sins.

Jeremiah 31:34
People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”

Hebrews 8:12
And I will forgive the wrongs they have done, and I will not remember their sins.”

Hebrews 10:17
Then he says, “I will forget their sins and never again remember the evil they have done.”

 

[The Learner]

there was no need to give me TWO PAGE LONG scripture quotations, I am not Catholic, and reading what certain Catholic members are selling, I am not buying.

Brother, Friend I think the other guy is Seventh Day Adventist because he is quoting from an SDA site.

 

[The Learner]

Ok...not interested to play dodgeball with you.

Ouch, my shoulder hurts

 

[The Learner]

Don't you know Adam didn't die- but is on fire to this day? (heh)

heat plus meat equals BBQ

 

[Taken]

Exposure!.....no, self exposure is intolerable to those intent and set on peddling the lie.

 

[Aunty Jane]

heat plus meat equals BBQ

I don't recall God ever mentioning a BBQ to Adam. If he was sent to "hell" and God did not forewarn him that this was part of the penalty, then its God's fault that Adam sinned....he was misinformed. Telling someone that they would "die and return to the dust" is not the same as telling someone that they would roast in a fire for all eternity with no way to gain forgiveness.

What kind of fiendish god would do that? It sounds like something satan would invent to paint the Creator in a bad light. There is not a shred of justice in it.

 

[Taken]

Exposure!.....no, self exposure is intolerable to those intent and set on peddling the lie.

Already plainly recognized you understand with your mind, not your heart and continuing a discussion with you, per usual with a mindful thinker, immediately turns to accusations and name calling AS IF, that magically makes you right and one that doesn’t agree with you wrong.
I bowed out of the conversation...but you couldn’t help yourself letting your forked tongue loose.
You might want to consider rolling up that loose tongue and learn how to gain God’s Understanding, because verbalizing your mind’s thoughts are neither beneficial or becoming.

 

[Taken]

Ouch, my shoulder hurts

Sending you a heating pad

 

[Johann]

Brother, Friend I think the other guy is Seventh Day Adventist because he is quoting from an SDA site.

Thanks for the heads up Learner.

 

[quietthinker]

Already plainly recognized you understand with your mind, not your heart and continuing a discussion with you, per usual with a mindful thinker, immediately turns to accusations and name calling AS IF, that magically makes you right and one that doesn’t agree with you wrong.
I bowed out of the conversation...but you couldn’t help yourself letting your forked tongue loose.
You might want to consider rolling up that loose tongue and learn how to gain God’s Understanding, because verbalizing your mind’s thoughts are neither beneficial or becoming.

It's the principle, not personal Taken. Self exposure is something one can't run from because it's just that, exposure to the self.

 

[FactsPlease]

Oh, shucks! I guess you church-goers don't pay attention to what the end of Revelation says the 'Lake of Fire' REALLY is!