I have noticed the following Negatives about the 'rapture'...

[marks]

i have yet to reveal to the Brethren, from the Scriptures, the SLAM DUNK of Prophetic Word that vaporizes the error of pre-trib

However, look no further then Genesis chapters 1 thru 7 that only speak of POST-TRIB Coming.

Yeah, you keep making hints. It's almost like you want the power of it without having to show it.

The thing is, I go by the plain sayings of the Bible, which are that when Jesus comes, He will regather Israel exactly as prophesied in So Many Places. It's not correct to appropriate this passage as though the church is Israel.

Much love!

 

[marks]

rev 19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

See that?
The saints on horses DURING THE TRIB,AND IN HEAVEN. Saints riding with Jesus to battle on earth.
the rapture was 7 yeaars prior,and the rev14 gathering 3 or 4 years prior.
Now ALL ARE IN HEAVEN during the trib.
But maybe you got a verse????
you claim you do.
I am willing to see the first postrib rapture verse that someone can come up with.



BTW,
In the Noah example by Jesus ,Noah enters the ark PRETRIB and after rising high into the sky, he RETURNS WITH GODS PEOPLE POSTRIB.
In the Lot story, Lot is removed entirely to another location PRETRIB . God removed his people prior to Judgement in both cases.

One of my faves . . .

Revelation 13:6 YLT
and it did open its mouth for evil-speaking toward God, to speak evil of His name, and of His tabernacle, and of those who in the heaven tabernacle,

Kai translates as either "and" or "even", that is, it either compounds, "and", This and that, or explains, "even", this, which is that.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah, you keep making hints. It's almost like you want the power of it without having to show it.

The thing is, I go by the plain sayings of the Bible, which are that when Jesus comes, He will regather Israel exactly as prophesied in So Many Places. It's not correct to appropriate this passage as though the church is Israel.

Much love!

What passage are you referring to my Brother?

 

[marks]

This is a Good Start = you just confirmed that 'pre-trib' rapture is a farce

Let's not play games.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What passage are you referring to my Brother?

Matthew 24:29-31 YLT
29) 'And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30) and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31) and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OK, now let us make it mandatory in our hearts before the LORD and allow the Holy Spirit to be our Guide as we submit to Truth.
"Thy word is Truth"

Now?? Well, if you haven't already, then yes, now.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Let's not play games.

Much love!

marks, your own words (and they are factual) proves beyond any reasonable doubt that 'pre-trib' rapture is guilty of fraud.

@marks says:
"What gives you the idea that I don't think I may suffer - terribly - for my faith? Paul wrote to Timothy that if you even just want to live Godly you will be persecuted.
Christians are being skinned alive in the modern day! Horrible things are being done, and could happen to any of us. Given the way the world is going, we are likely getting closer day by day."

 

[marks]

My post there was in haste, so let us look at the parameter which our LORD assessed on this = Matthew 23:37

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

i feel at liberty to say that the LORD included all types of persecution and not just 'death' against the true prophets.

Jeremiah was cast into a pit and left to die but was rescued.
In those days the pits may have included garbage, dead animals and/or human waste.

OK, so you are no longer saying all the prophets died in Jerusalem? Which means that Enoch and Elijah aren't required to die in Jerusalem?

Much love!

 

[marks]

marks, your own words (and they are factual) proves beyond any reasonable doubt that 'pre-trib' rapture is guilty of fraud.

@marks says:
"What gives you the idea that I don't think I may suffer - terribly - for my faith? Paul wrote to Timothy that if you even just want to live Godly you will be persecuted.
Christians are being skinned alive in the modern day! Horrible things are being done, and could happen to any of us. Given the way the world is going, we are likely getting closer day by day.

The point I'm trying to show . . . not all tribulation is "the great tribulation". I constantly hear the objection, You don't get to escape tribulation, as if that's what we think. It's not. And that's not a valid argument to make.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Matthew 24:29-31 YLT
29) 'And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30) and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31) and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Much love!

i have to go out for another hour or so

QUESTIONS:
a.) What makes you think that chapter 24 only applies to the Jews?

b.) Did JESUS say it only applies to the Jews?

c.) Is the Gospel Message that we SEE in Matthew ch24 to the Jews only?

d.) Did the LORD Jesus include the entire Body of Christ anywhere in Matthew ch24?

 

[David in NJ]

The point I'm trying to show . . . not all tribulation is "the great tribulation". I constantly hear the objection, You don't get to escape tribulation, as if that's what we think. It's not. And that's not a valid argument to make.

Much love!

On the contrary, it is the very foundation by which find the true meaning of "tribulation" as spoken by the LORD in Matt ch24.

Be back later

 

[marks]

This was posted as a 'contract' made by @rebuilder 454 which i fully agree/submit to and wanted to know if you are able to submit to it's demands.

You mentioned "insinuations", do you realize you do that a LOT?

Much love!

 

[marks]

On the contrary, it is the very foundation by which find the true meaning of "tribulation" as spoken by the LORD in Matt ch24.

Be back later

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You have not yet yielded to JESUS words = Matt 24:26-31

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Isaiah 11:11-12 KJV
11) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 KJV
14) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15) But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

This one in particular . . . the deliverance from Egypt was the defining moment in their history to them. But that will change.

Ezekiel 36:23-25 KJV
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Would you like to see more?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You have not yet yielded to JESUS words = Matt 24:26-31

Do you demand to be a part of that number? When He regathers Israel as He has promised? You judge me unyielding, I assert that you do not understand the passage.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Much love!

 

[marks]

b.) Did JESUS say it only applies to the Jews?

Absolutely, that's who He was talking about.

Do this. Take a time machine to that day. Find any Jew and ask them . . . "who are the Chosen? And who are the Nations? What does that mean?" I have a prediction. I predict they will tell you, The Jews, and The Gentiles.

And that's who Jesus was talking about. The Jews will be regathered to their promised land, and the gentiles will be gathered for judgment. Just as prophesied.

Joel 3:1-2 KJV
1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Much love!

 

[marks]

i have to go out for another hour or so

QUESTIONS:
a.) What makes you think that chapter 24 only applies to the Jews?

b.) Did JESUS say it only applies to the Jews?

c.) Is the Gospel Message that we SEE in Matthew ch24 to the Jews only?

d.) Did the LORD Jesus include the entire Body of Christ anywhere in Matthew ch24?

Remember . . . the Church as we call it, specifically the body of Christ . . . was a mystery - musterion - until it was revealed through Paul, so we know that Jesus did not reveal it.

I understand that you reject this argument because it seems to go against your post-trib view, however, that IS the meaning and use of that word. That is what Paul wrote, it just simply is.

Now, maybe there's a way that this fact doesn't negate your view, and maybe not, but how can you claim to hold to truth and reject things like this?

Don't believe me, why would you? Find this out for yourself. But don't expect me to believe you are seeking truth if you refuse to seek this truth. And if you seek it I know exactly what you will find, because I'm not wrong on this point.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

You mentioned "insinuations", do you realize you do that a LOT?

Much love!

Directed at the lie of pre-trib = always = "no lie is of the truth"

 

[David in NJ]

Isaiah 11:11-12 KJV
11) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 KJV
14) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15) But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

This one in particular . . . the deliverance from Egypt was the defining moment in their history to them. But that will change.

Ezekiel 36:23-25 KJV
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Would you like to see more?

Much love!

As you know, i fully recognize the flesh nation Israel and all that pertains to her from the Holy Scriptures.