This is up to God to judge who was a false prophet or false gospel bringer and not us.
I note that Brother Copeland and Jesse Duplantis is on the minds of some here.
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This is up to God to judge who was a false prophet or false gospel bringer and not us.
Keep reading the NT, and see where it is directed to so judge, and NOT to accept nor to allow ANYONE who brings a false gospel, at all.
Did you never read the Bible "With their lips they worship ME, but their HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME" ?
See the rest of the testimony about the false teachers - if you don't know the Scripture about that, see the exposes that are available online freely, with all the Scriptures needed ....
The life of those false teachers, and their accepting and bringing and teaching the false Gospel (not related at all to prosperit) condemns them already, as Jesus says THOSE WHO BRING A FALSE GOSPEL ARE ACCURSED.
That includes everyone who brings a false gospel.
Kenneth Copeland - Deception In The Church
www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kcopeland.html
(6) Kenneth Copeland - God Is Both Male And Female by Paw Creek Ministries, 1999 Listen to Kenneth Copeland as he describes his false concept about his New Age god. "People have even argued about whether God is male or female. But the Bible itself tells us that He s both! That s right. In the Hebrew language, all words have gender.
www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kcopeland.html
(6) Kenneth Copeland - God Is Both Male And Female by Paw Creek Ministries, 1999 Listen to Kenneth Copeland as he describes his false concept about his New Age god. "People have even argued about whether God is male or female. But the Bible itself tells us that He s both! That s right. In the Hebrew language, all words have gender.
Walter Martin's Warning to the Church - Let Us Reason
www.letusreason.org/Wf26.htm
These are excerpts from Walter Martin's message. [Background - Kenneth Copeland claims that Jesus said in conversation with Copeland that ... What deceives people about these false prophets is that out of one side of their mouth they preach the gospel , and out of the other side of their mouth they deny Him who is the core of the gospel. And if ...
These are excerpts from Walter Martin's message. [Background - Kenneth Copeland claims that Jesus said in conversation with Copeland that ... What deceives people about these false prophets is that out of one side of their mouth they preach the gospel , and out of the other side of their mouth they deny Him who is the core of the gospel. And if ...
Yes I have read that, I am not looking for exposes though, but I would rather find out straight from the Holy Spirit. I will say though, and you know this too, no human is perfect on this earth today and every single one of us have our flaws. We all gotta practice hearing the voice of God for ourselves, instead of relying on man's info, even Copeland or any other preacher for that matter. I am just defending the word of Faith though. The word of Faith is real, if it's according to God's will it will be answered, I don't know whether if Copeland or Duplantis teach much about the will of God though, so I won't say anything on that part for now, but I know faith does work.
5 Errors of the Prosperity Gospel
short excerpt:
"As Gloria Copeland put it in her 2012 book, God’s Will is Prosperity, “Give $10 and receive $1,000; give $1,000 and receive $100,000. . . . In short, Mark 10:30 is a very good deal.” It’s evident, then, that the prosperity gospel’s doctrine of giving is built on faulty motives. Whereas Jesus taught his disciples to “give, hoping for nothing in return” (Luke 6:35), prosperity theologians teach their disciples to give because they will get a great return."
short excerpt:
"As Gloria Copeland put it in her 2012 book, God’s Will is Prosperity, “Give $10 and receive $1,000; give $1,000 and receive $100,000. . . . In short, Mark 10:30 is a very good deal.” It’s evident, then, that the prosperity gospel’s doctrine of giving is built on faulty motives. Whereas Jesus taught his disciples to “give, hoping for nothing in return” (Luke 6:35), prosperity theologians teach their disciples to give because they will get a great return."
We are meant to give out of our hearts for the sake of others and not for ourselves.
@Joseph77 sorry if I took things too far earlier, will even admit I said too much, but main my point here is I believe faith and believing Jesus can, does work.
I did watch a short clip on Gloria Copeland teaching about the love of money is the root of all evil, the first 25 seconds were right, even though if you were wealthy, it would be better to give more than 10%, as usually a wealthy person does not need that 90%, if you are not wealthy though and on minimum wage, you can only give what you can afford to. Even though there is no condition for this in the NT, we do have the comparison between those rich that had plenty and the widow who gave all that she had which was only 2 mites.
10% is not a bad amount though, I have heard of wealthy ministries giving less. And have sadly heard of the wealthy even giving 5% or less to the poor before.
How ever you will notice in the last few seconds, she does get a bit carried away with the possibilities. Of course this is only my view though.
So see I do not agree with everything Copeland ministries teach and same would go for other ministries, they all got their weaknesses as I say they are human. But the Copeland's also have their strengths too.
I did watch a short clip on Gloria Copeland teaching about the love of money is the root of all evil, the first 25 seconds were right, even though if you were wealthy, it would be better to give more than 10%, as usually a wealthy person does not need that 90%, if you are not wealthy though and on minimum wage, you can only give what you can afford to. Even though there is no condition for this in the NT, we do have the comparison between those rich that had plenty and the widow who gave all that she had which was only 2 mites.
10% is not a bad amount though, I have heard of wealthy ministries giving less. And have sadly heard of the wealthy even giving 5% or less to the poor before.
How ever you will notice in the last few seconds, she does get a bit carried away with the possibilities. Of course this is only my view though.
So see I do not agree with everything Copeland ministries teach and same would go for other ministries, they all got their weaknesses as I say they are human. But the Copeland's also have their strengths too.
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Strengths and weaknesses do not matter when someone is carrying a false gospel.
A false gospel means it is a gospel with no power to save anyone - only to deceive and to prevent people from being saved.
The prevalence of exposure of the prosperity does not matter at all.
"
Walter Martin’s Warning to the Church (1988)
This message is not for the faint hearted; it is not a message of comfort for those who live in
false teaching or protect false teachers. These are excerpts from Walter Martin's message.
[Background - Kenneth Copeland claims that Jesus said in conversation with Copeland that
he never claimed to be God ; he only claimed he walked with God.]
Dr. Martin had contacted Copeland by mail confronting him on this issue, but unfortunately
his responses to Dr. Martin "were not kind or receptive."
"
Walter Martin’s Warning to the Church (1988)
This message is not for the faint hearted; it is not a message of comfort for those who live in
false teaching or protect false teachers. These are excerpts from Walter Martin's message.
[Background - Kenneth Copeland claims that Jesus said in conversation with Copeland that
he never claimed to be God ; he only claimed he walked with God.]
Dr. Martin had contacted Copeland by mail confronting him on this issue, but unfortunately
his responses to Dr. Martin "were not kind or receptive."
"
cont.: (false prophet exposure) ....
"Now the Scripture has many statements about false teachings and false prophets. Matthew
7: 15+16 gives one of the most frightening passages in all divine revelation. It says - and this
is the Lord Jesus speaking on the subject - "False prophets will come dressed as sheep but
inwardly, or spiritually , you are dealing with savage wolves . You will know them by what they
produce." Now Jesus has said something else that the Church has forgotten today. Jesus
said, " in my name ." (v.22) or if you want the actual meaning of the Greek text, " by my
authority" - ' name ' means ' authority' . When you say, "Stop in the name of the Law! " to a
criminal fleeing, you are saying "Stop!" by the authority of what? The law! The law says you
can't do that. Stop! When a King pronounced judgment in Old Testament times and recent
times ( until kings went out of fashion in the world ), a ruler person would say, "Open the door
in the name of the King". Alright, once you get that concept in your mind, Jesus said there
will come men who will speak, claiming their authority is from me. Now get that in your head
carefully. There will come men who will speak "in my name"; that is, I am supposedly saying
this to you. That is a very important phrase. They're going to come and say, "I 'm speaking to
you in Jesus 'name." "In my name they will work miracles. In my name they will cast out
devils. They will prophesy and preach. But when I meet them I will say, "Leave me - I never
knew you, workers of iniquity." Why? Because they use his authority and his name, because
the power was in Jesus' name ( Jesus' authority ), not in themselves . And God honored the
name of his Son. And they took that as a means of teaching their own false doctrines and
false prophecies , and because of that they corrupted the faith of the church. But inwardly,
spiritually, they really roooaaar ! And if you don't know fleece from fur, you're dinner, dum
dum! And the only way you can know fleece from fur is to know how to test them. You don't
test them by Walter Martin, or by Norman Geisler, as good as the apologist and defenders of
Christianity might be and as much as you trust them. You don't test them by other people;
you test them by Scripture. Then if your fidelity is to the Scripture, and your allegiance is to
the Scripture, you reject them! But, says Paul , in the last days, men are going to be drawn
away by false teachers and prophets in the church speaking in the name of Jesus. And
you 're not going to test them, you're going to go along with them. And they're going to
fragment and divide the Church because you won't test them.
Well it's about time that we test them. Kenneth Copeland delivered the following prophecy
during a three day victory campaign held in Dallas, Texas. It is reproduced in the Voice of
Victory 20th anniversary of his ministry. Found on page 9, his prophecy came from Jesus
Chris t, Copeland says. He quotes Jesus as saying, "You remember in my word I said to my
disciples, ' this kind comes not out by prayer and fasting' ." He's talking now about the power
of prayer. He goes on "Don't be disturbed (this is Jesus) when people accuse you of being
God. They crucified Me for claiming I was God. But I didn't claim I was God; I just claimed I
walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah." That is a lying spirit. Look at me! Read
my lips! "That is a lying spirit." That is not the Holy Spirit. Now for ten years I have warned,
and I'm on tape and in print on this: "
"Now the Scripture has many statements about false teachings and false prophets. Matthew
7: 15+16 gives one of the most frightening passages in all divine revelation. It says - and this
is the Lord Jesus speaking on the subject - "False prophets will come dressed as sheep but
inwardly, or spiritually , you are dealing with savage wolves . You will know them by what they
produce." Now Jesus has said something else that the Church has forgotten today. Jesus
said, " in my name ." (v.22) or if you want the actual meaning of the Greek text, " by my
authority" - ' name ' means ' authority' . When you say, "Stop in the name of the Law! " to a
criminal fleeing, you are saying "Stop!" by the authority of what? The law! The law says you
can't do that. Stop! When a King pronounced judgment in Old Testament times and recent
times ( until kings went out of fashion in the world ), a ruler person would say, "Open the door
in the name of the King". Alright, once you get that concept in your mind, Jesus said there
will come men who will speak, claiming their authority is from me. Now get that in your head
carefully. There will come men who will speak "in my name"; that is, I am supposedly saying
this to you. That is a very important phrase. They're going to come and say, "I 'm speaking to
you in Jesus 'name." "In my name they will work miracles. In my name they will cast out
devils. They will prophesy and preach. But when I meet them I will say, "Leave me - I never
knew you, workers of iniquity." Why? Because they use his authority and his name, because
the power was in Jesus' name ( Jesus' authority ), not in themselves . And God honored the
name of his Son. And they took that as a means of teaching their own false doctrines and
false prophecies , and because of that they corrupted the faith of the church. But inwardly,
spiritually, they really roooaaar ! And if you don't know fleece from fur, you're dinner, dum
dum! And the only way you can know fleece from fur is to know how to test them. You don't
test them by Walter Martin, or by Norman Geisler, as good as the apologist and defenders of
Christianity might be and as much as you trust them. You don't test them by other people;
you test them by Scripture. Then if your fidelity is to the Scripture, and your allegiance is to
the Scripture, you reject them! But, says Paul , in the last days, men are going to be drawn
away by false teachers and prophets in the church speaking in the name of Jesus. And
you 're not going to test them, you're going to go along with them. And they're going to
fragment and divide the Church because you won't test them.
Well it's about time that we test them. Kenneth Copeland delivered the following prophecy
during a three day victory campaign held in Dallas, Texas. It is reproduced in the Voice of
Victory 20th anniversary of his ministry. Found on page 9, his prophecy came from Jesus
Chris t, Copeland says. He quotes Jesus as saying, "You remember in my word I said to my
disciples, ' this kind comes not out by prayer and fasting' ." He's talking now about the power
of prayer. He goes on "Don't be disturbed (this is Jesus) when people accuse you of being
God. They crucified Me for claiming I was God. But I didn't claim I was God; I just claimed I
walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah." That is a lying spirit. Look at me! Read
my lips! "That is a lying spirit." That is not the Holy Spirit. Now for ten years I have warned,
and I'm on tape and in print on this: "
once more cont.:
from url / link two posts or so back :
"You may sit here and say, "You sound very angry!" I am! I may be one of God's last angry
men, but I'm angry for the right reason. I'm in the presence of the doctrines of the Anti-Christ
and I plan to be angry that way the rest of my life. And if you don't hear me angry about
those kinds of doctrines, please come and tell me as quickly as possible, because I have
defected from the ministry. So I'm going to ask you to covenant with me in prayer that God
will bring Kenneth Copeland to repentance for this blasphemy , and there may be an open
apology and repudiation of it in the Christian Church. And then - until this is done - we will
remain constant in prayer , and we will not support what we know to be evil doctrine. If we do
that , God will bless us and honor us. If we don't do it, we're going to reap an awful harvest.
This morning was a very difficult message to preach - 'The Warnings of God', because
whenever you talk this way, you're bound to be misinterpreted"
from url / link two posts or so back :
"You may sit here and say, "You sound very angry!" I am! I may be one of God's last angry
men, but I'm angry for the right reason. I'm in the presence of the doctrines of the Anti-Christ
and I plan to be angry that way the rest of my life. And if you don't hear me angry about
those kinds of doctrines, please come and tell me as quickly as possible, because I have
defected from the ministry. So I'm going to ask you to covenant with me in prayer that God
will bring Kenneth Copeland to repentance for this blasphemy , and there may be an open
apology and repudiation of it in the Christian Church. And then - until this is done - we will
remain constant in prayer , and we will not support what we know to be evil doctrine. If we do
that , God will bless us and honor us. If we don't do it, we're going to reap an awful harvest.
This morning was a very difficult message to preach - 'The Warnings of God', because
whenever you talk this way, you're bound to be misinterpreted"
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
List some of the men of the epistles that had overflowing earthly abundance please.
Or even anyone with earthly abundance from or of the thousands from Foxes Book of Martyrs (Ekklesia through the centuries who died for their faith, rather than deny Jesus), and other testimonies of the faithful ones.
The Holy Spirit can use Christians to lead people to Jesus, but only Jesus can save. But I would not label Copeland or Duplantis as false as I keep saying that's up to God to decide.
And we could bring Joel Osteen into this topic if we wanted to, and use Osteen as an example. We cannot say Holy Spirit has not used Joel Osteen to lead anyone to Jesus, as he leads many around the world every Sunday in the Salvation Prayer leading them to Jesus. So people do get led to Jesus by flicking on some Tele-evangelist on TV. So we got to be very careful to judge them.
I fear God enough to stay away from putting labels like that on any Christian preacher.
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