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I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Alpha and Omega, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Super Kal;60029)
    I have read it, jordan... and I applaud it.God does indeed say one thing: by grace you are saved, through faith"... not through works righteousness, not by the traditions of the Catholic Church, and certainly not through the doctrines of the Catholic Church.You're absolutely right... God is perfect in every way... The pope is not... and yet, Catholicism views the Pope as an infallible leader in its religion.I agree with both of you... but I will not follow a religion that calls itself "Christianity", but damns someone to hell, and Catholicism does exactly that, and I will certainly not follow a teaching that that same religion starts to try and confuse Biblical Christianity... Satan is EXTREMELY prevalent in Catholicism today... he was prevalent in the Papal Inquisition when he started to kill Christians for reading God's Word.also... keep in mind that Catholicism teaches the theory of Evolution as truth... the Bible says otherwise.
    Once again, twice stated combined in both signatures. I can safely say this for me and for Christina. We don't follow a religion of men. Catholicism is going to be absorbed by Satan, Mormonism is going to be absorbed by Satan, Buddhism is going to be absorbed by Satan, Hinduism is going to be absorbed by Satan, Islam is going to be absorbed by Satan, Judaism is going to be absorbed by Satan, Christianity (all denominations) is going to be absorbed by Satan.The only thing that is NOT going to be absorbed by Satan is God Words and His Elect that will not follow Satan at all.
     
  2. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    I'm glad you don't... I'm glad you don't think that salvation is through works righteousness... and to be honest, that's what really matters.but the definition of Salvation is not the only thing Satan corrupted...those Christians that seal God's Word (Biblical Christianity) in their minds are the ones that will endure to the end, whether by death or by the Day of the Lord... and to say that Biblical Christianity will be absorbed by Satan is not true by a long shot... Satan has been trying to do that for over 2000 years now, and he hasn't succeeded, and he never will succeedthose Christians who watch will know the end of Days when they see it... we're living in those times right now.
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Super Kal;60039)
    I'm glad you don't... I'm glad you don';t think that salvation is through works righteousness... and to be honest, that's what really matters.but the definition of Salvation is not the only thing Satan corrupted...those Christians that seal God's Word (Biblical Christianity) in their minds are the ones that will endure to the end, whether by death or by the Day of the Lord... and to say that Biblical Christianity will be absorbed by Satan is not true by a long shot... Satan has been trying to do that for over 2000 years now, and he hasn't succeeded, and he never will succeedthose Christians who watch will know the end of Days when they see it... we're living in those times right now.
    I think you missed the last line of my previous post.(Jordan;60032)
    ...The only thing that is NOT going to be absorbed by Satan is God Words and His Elect that will not follow Satan at all.
     
  4. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    I'm glad you don't... I'm glad you don';t think that salvation is through works righteousness... and to be honest, that's what really matters.but the definition of Salvation is not the only thing Satan corrupted...those Christians that seal God's Word (Biblical Christianity) in their minds are the ones that will endure to the end, whether by death or by the Day of the Lord... and to say that Biblical Christianity will be absorbed by Satan is not true by a long shot... Satan has been trying to do that for over 2000 years now, and he hasn't succeeded, and he never will succeedthose Christians who watch will know the end of Days when they see it... we're living in those times right now.
    Let me add some extra dimensions to Christianity that one does not hear too often, but will be stated by the true church. The Christian is someone called by God to rule and reign with Him in the millennium. The whole theme of the bible is God's Kingdom vs Satan's Kingdom. Satan did not follow God when He was on the throne over this earth. Man was created to take his place. As a matter of fact, man was to become as God as he was designed to be begotten---- angels are created beings. Since man fell by Satan's deception, Satan was allowed to be Lord and master over man and as god of this earth ever since.In the physical sense, God used Israel to be a light and type of God's Kingdom coming to this earth to restore everything, and the church are the few called out ones to rule and reign with Him. Too many people are worried about "salvation" that it becomes hedonistic. What about things from God's perspective? If God did not call me to be saved, that's His prerogative, and there is not diddly I can do about it---- I'm just glad that He did call me, though.When we rule and reign with Christ, there will be a greater salvation on this earth in the millennium. That's far greater than just "dying and going to heaven" as we've been deluded into believing all these years.God is out to restore us and His Kingdom. But all in due time and in stages. This is why Jesus has to come back to rule ---- the promise to King David.
     
  5. jtartar

    jtartar New Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;58969)
    Revelation 17: 1-18Please read Revelation 17 so we can continue with the revealing of the Great ***** and the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.Briefly, John is shown the final judgment of the great ***** due to her own course of action. This great *****, referred to as Babylon the great, was shown to John in the wilderness. This is an important setting, as will be seen later.The description of the ***** is parallel to the first beast of Revelation 13 that also has seven heads and ten horns indicating that both symbols represent the same entity – that being the Roman Catholic papal system. Furthermore, the ***** is described as sitting on seven mountains Rome has frequently been identified as the City of Seven Hills, from classical times down to contemporary time.Whereas in Revelation 13 the union of church and state was blended in one symbol, in Revelation 17 God has pictured them separately. A woman always symbolizes a church in the Bible, in this case the ***** – an impure church. And a beast has always signified a kingdom or state that persecutes God's people. So we have an impure woman sitting on (i.e. controlling) a scarlet-colored beast (state). This again reinforces the reality of the Catholic system being the only system that is a church and an earthly kingdom at the same time. This church is described as being eminently rich, proud, and more importantly, very corrupt. Indeed, it represents Satan's final supreme instrument of deception.When one of the seven kings reappears from the bottomless pit as the eighth king but in the form of a beast, the ten kings of the earth (ten is an all-inclusive, universal number indicating that this includes all earthly rulers; cf. parable of ten virgins) will be greatly awed by the beast, and will willingly surrender their power to the beast for a short time. Both the beast and the ten kings will rule and war against Christ in the person of His followers for a short time, but will not overcome them.Just before the end of all things, the ten kings will discover that they have been ensnared and deceived by the beast (the eighth king from the bottomless pit) and they will turn with vengeance against the beast system, and destroy it. For they will this time, though belatedly, be doing God's will.1. Great ***** sitting on the beast was viewed in the wilderness (Rev. 17:3).This is important as it is not by happenstance that the "great ***** who sitteth upon the scarlet beast" was seen in the wilderness. In Revelation 17, God is indicating the time-period that the Roman Catholic Church is viewed in. To understand what will happen to the world when she comes out of her wilderness experience, we need to understand how the Roman Catholic Church entered this wilderness experience.2. What does wilderness mean in Bible prophecy?In the Book of Revelation we have another instance of a church that went into the wilderness. It was God's true church during the Middle Ages, when the church was subject to papal persecution: “And the woman (church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand and two hundred and threescore days.” Revelation 12:6. We know that this church was pure, for it is God who led her to the wilderness, away from the papal persecution that raged for 1260 years from 538 A.D. until 1798 A.D. The dragon (Satan) was warring against the church during this period, using his earthly instrument, the Roman Catholic Church: "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." Revelation 12:14. The wilderness then, in Bible prophecy, is a figure of speech picturing the harsh conditions facing a church in a particular period in her history.3. When did God's true church come out of her wilderness experience?The logical answer to this question would be, when the papal persecution ceased. This officially happened in 1798, when Napoleon Bonaparte sent to Rome where he exiled Pope Pius VI to Valence in France. At the same time Berthier declared an end to the temporal power over much of Europe that the Catholic Church had enjoyed up to that time. It was a most humiliating and abrupt end to a long rule of power that lasted 1260 years. Shortly after, Christian Bible Societies spread all over the world, with their work unhampered or threatened by papal constrictions. Thus, 1798 marks the date when God's church ended her wilderness experience. Now God's church was totally free to focus her energies on translating and printing the Bible in as many languages as possible and to conduct missionary activities all over the world.4. Catholic Church enters her wilderness experience just as Gods true church escapes hers.In 1798 the Catholic Church not only lost her temporal power over the kings, dukes, and princes of much of Europe, but was in fact no longer free to carry her own ecclesiastical privileges, such as selecting a pope to succeed Pius VI. Her representatives needed the permission of Napoleon Bonaparte before they could appoint Pius VII in 1800 to succeed the pope who died in exile, a year earlier. 5. What is the significance of the Lateran Treaty of 1929 to the wilderness experience which the Roman Catholic Church was in since 1798?What the Roman Catholic Church got in 1929 was its independence and sovereignty. The political independence means that now they had a monarchy, although on much reduced area of land, where the pope was the absolute ruler. The pope now was not only the supreme head of the Catholic Church universally, but also the indisputable temporal king over the State of Vatican City. He was no longer a prisoner of captivity. This however did not end the wilderness experience for the Catholic church but this is a very significant date none the less.6. What about the seven kings of the Roman Catholic Church during her wilderness period?Now we come to the most important part of the whole chapter. God has prophesied that there will be only seven kings: "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:10. From this verse the following facts can be gleaned: 1. Seven kings in total. 2. John was taken in vision to the time of the sixth king: “five are fallen, and one is.” He comes after the first five have fallen. Again, it is not coincidental that when taken in vision, John was taken to the time of the sixth king. It is a divine hint by which God is guiding us to focus our attention on this particular king, as he will play a very important role in the end-time events. 3. The seventh king “must continue a short space.” 4. 11. So who are the seven kings/popes?So lets have a count.....Pius XI was the first Roman Catholic pope (from February 6, 1922) who became king as well on February 11, 1929. He along with Mussolini, engineered the Lateran Treaty.1st King - Pius XI - Feb 11, 1929 - Feb 10, 1939 - 10 years2nd King - Pius XII - Mar 2, 1939 - Oct 9, 1958 - 19 years3rd King - John XXIII - Oct 28, 1958 - Jun 3, 1963 - 5 years4th King - Paul VI - Jun 21, 1963 - Aug 6, 1978 - 15 years5th King - John Paul I - Aug 26, 1978 - Sep 28 1978 - 33 days6th King - John Paul II - Oct 16, 1978 - Apr 2, 2005 - 27 years7th King - Benedict XVI - Apr 19, 2005 - "A short space" Revelation 17:107. What is destined to take place after the prophesied short monarchy of Benedict XVI?"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:11. Here, we learn the following: 1. The Roman Catholic Church was once a beast (up to 1798), but now is not (as she has been in the wilderness experience since 1798); however, she will regain the beast status (meaning she will come out of her wilderness experience) after the fall of the seventh king, Benedict XVI. 2. The next one to come after Benedict XVI will be one of the other seven kings. But he will no longer be considered a mere king, but will be a beast as well; for with him the Roman Catholic Church will regain her former power to persecute her enemies. 3. The eighth, when he comes, will be the last; for he “goeth into perdition.” 8. Who is the eighth who will restore the beast status to the Roman Catholic Church anew?To answer this question we need first to note the origin of the eighth: “The beast that thou sawest was [the Catholic Church was once a beast until 1798] and is not [during her wilderness experience], and shall ascend [after the fall of Benedict XVI, the eighth will restore her beast status] out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition.” Revelation 17:8.From this verse we can conclude the following: 1. Only one more king will come after Benedict XVI, and he will be the eighth. And this king will restore the beast status to the Roman Catholic Church – for during his reign persecution of God's people will resume again, just as it was in the Middle Ages. 2. That the eighth king will ascend from the "bottomless pit", and in due course will "go into perdition."9. What is the bottomless pit from which the eighth will ascend?Once again, we go only to the Bible to answer this valid question. The Greek word translated ‘bottomless pit’ is abussos which has the English counterpart, ‘an abyss’. The following verses will unfold what is the abussos.“...a certain man, which had devils long time…30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31 And they besought Him that He would not command them to go out into the deep (abussos)… 33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine...” Luke 8:27, 30, 31, 33.From the above Bible passage we learn that the Greek abussos (in the Bible translated ‘deep’ or ‘bottomless pit’) is a certain location (not known to man) where some of the fallen evil angels are confined. Not all the evil angels are permitted to leave the abussos, which is not a very pleasant place to be in, even for the evil angels. One can imagine the pandemonium and the constant jostling that goes on at the abussos among the rebellious evil angels. The legion of devils, who were tormenting a certain man in the above story, dreaded that Christ would command them to go to the abussos. And they begged Him not to command them to go to the deep (abussos). They find much happiness in tormenting people and animals than to be in the company of others of their kind.To summarize, the bottomless pit is a certain location that serves as a confined habitation for some of the evil angels (devils). 10. The eighth will be a devil from the abussos impersonating one of the 7 kings. When the eighth will appear on the scene, he will rapidly spearhead the coming of the Roman Catholic Church out of her wilderness experience into a full-fledged beast.It is not difficult at all to visualize this prophesied dramatic transformation of the Roman Catholic Church (out of her wilderness status and into a full beast status) once we identify the king (out of the seven) who will be impersonated by a devil who ascends from the bottomless pit. It will most likely be John Paul II after all he was the most recognized and most loved pope in recent history. He is also the Pope that John say in his vision. God is giving us a very important clue here.I hope you enjoyed reading I know it was long and I apologize for that, but I hope we can all understand Gods word and recognize what will happen in the near future.God Bless.
    Alpha and Omega, You have so many different ideas in your post it is impossible to answer all of them in one post. Let me just point to a couple of things for you to ponder. If you look at Rev 13:1-3, where we see a wild beast with seven heads and ten horns. This beast is given its authority and power by the dragen, Satan the Devil. Right off we see that this is not an organizstion that is blessed by God. If you look in Daniel, 7:1-8, we see that this SEA, is really people, and that the beasts actually are the political world powers. The first on was like a Lion, which was Babylon, the second like a Bear, the Medes and Persions, third like a Leopard, Greece, forth a beast fearsome and unusually strong, Rome, fifth is a small horn. This last horn of power is Briton, which started little then grew to be all over the earth, Later, after WWI the United States became the dominant part of this world power, now called The Anglo-American World Power. In Bible history there is mentioned only seven world powers, because these seven had an interaction with God's chosen people. These are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes and Persions, Greece, Rome and the Anglo-American world power. This make up seven and there will only be seven world powers before God puts in place the Messianic Kingdom, The very government we pray for when saying the Lord's Prayer. NOW, after you understand that the beast stand for world powers, the seven heads are the dominant powers at any time. Look back again to the 13th chapter of Revelation. Verse 1-3 describes the beast, but notice that this beast in verses 13,14 gives life to an IMAGE OF THE WILD BEAST. This image is the beast mentioned in the 17th chapter of Revelation, a SCARLET COLORED WILD BEAST. Since much of Revelation is in signsm we must identify what the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast is, exactly who the Great Harlot pictures, Rev 17:1-3 If you stop to think about it, this world is divided into three major entites, Commerce, Politics and Religion. In the 18th chpter of Revelation we find the Kings of the Earth, who committed fornication with the Great Harlot, and also the Traveling Merchants-commerce mourning over the Great Harlot's destruction, Rev 18:3, 9,10,15. The only other major organzation besides Politics-Kings of the Earth, with their armies, and Commerce, is RELIGION. BABYLON THE GREAT is the Great Harlot, the whole world of false religion.The Great Harlot is described perfectly at rev 17:1-7, she sits on many waters, these waters are really PEOPLE, Verse 15, next she commits fornication with the Kings of the earth. Does not religion and Politicss mix together in order to get things done?? Does not Politics get the religions of the world to back them when they want to start a war. The pulpits have become recruiting agencies for Politics, as long as Politics allows them to keep their power. Politics and religion working together is FORNICATION to God. Remember that Jesus said that his Kingdom is NO PART of this world, that Satan is the ruler of the world, John 12:31, 16:11, 2Cor 4:4 Satan is the god of this system of things, 1John 5:19, and is misleading wht entire inhabited earth, Rev 12:9. Next verse 17:4, says the Harlot is dressed in purple and scarlet, adorned with gols and precious stones. These things are all royal attire, Priestly. Notice verse 5, where we are told that this Great Harlot is the MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS, and of the disgusting things of the earth. This is a perfect picture of false religion, she being the MOTHER of all the different religions in the earth. Can you think of anything more disgusting that that, to a God who requires exclusive devotion? Ex 20:3-5. Then consider verse 6, where we see the Harlot drunk with the blood of the Holy Ones and the witnesses of Jesus. Think about false religion down through all of history. It has been false religion who instigated the crusades, the inquisitions, and the majority of wars on earth. They have been the ones who have tortured God's true followers all through history. God's follower, Stephen brought that up just before he was killed by false religion. Stephen asked the murderers; which one of the prophets did you NOT persecute?, Acts 7:51,52. There is not doubt that the Great Harlot is the world empire of false religiom. The Scarlet Colored Wild Beast, The image of the Wild Beast is the United Nations. Notice how clearly this is explained at Rev 17:8-11. This beast was to got off for a while, then come back. It started with the League of Nations, it was gone during WW2, then came back again in 1945. The final verses in the 17th chapter show that the United Nations will attack religion, probably because see that it is religion that is causing most of the trouble in the world today. In verse 18, we see that Babylon is called the Great City having a Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth. This could be no other organizartion but religion!!! be no
     
  6. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    sorry, but that's where you're wrong, jtartar... the greek word for hill is "oros", and that is defined as a literal hill.the Vatican sits on top of 7 hills in what was back then Ancient Rome... even Rome itself has been referred to as "A City on Seven Hills" for the past 2000 years... even the codename for it was "Babylon"...http://www.plim.org/mbabylon.html
    According to the Dictionary of the Bible (© 1963 Scribner’s Son) by James Hastings, the woman in John’s vision had been symbolically equated to Rome ever since the fifth century. This is verified by St. Jerome (347-420 A.D.), one of the most noted scholars of the period who translated the Bible into Latin. Hastings states: “This identification of Babylon with Rome dates at least from the time of Jerome (p. 84).”
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Did you ever stop to think that men coined that conclusion after the Bible said it.The battle in bible is written from Gen to Rev. there is one enemy he was the serpent in the garden he is the serpent and the devil in Rev There is one common thread throughout all scripture ONE enemy and God flat tells you he is coming to earth to do exactly what God has told you from the beginning what he wants, and that is to become like god set his throne above Gods. It was also the teaching of the very earliest church fathers. You are listening to men who were reformers and they had split from the catholic church the catholic church was the enemy you don't think they were influenced by this ?? The book was for the most part closed until appox the 20th cen. and not fully opened/understood the latter days began.
     
  8. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    and your so called "futuristic revelation" was made by the same people that killed millions of Christians for reading an English Bible... The Jesuit Order...BY THE WAY... the rapture doctrine that this site is so much against... where do you think that came from?... a man named Emmanuel Lacunza... you know what he was... a Jesuit Priest.do you know who invented Preterism?... Luis De Alcazar. Who was Alcazar?... a Jesuit Priestdo you know who founded the Jesuit Order?... THE ROMAN FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH.you want to know who made Dispensationalism ultra popular?... John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield... the were the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who spread the false doctrine of the rapture into Protestantism... which of course came from THE ROMAN FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH.The SAME church that claims that the Pope (a human being) is infallible...the SAME church that claims Mary (a human being) is sinless and perfect...the SAME church that claims Christ's sacrifice was not enough and that me must do works to get into heaven...the SAME church that holds tradition equal with the Bible...the SAME church who questions the deity of Christ by teaching Darwinian Evolution in their classroom...the SAME church that taught one could buy their way into heavenwhat is the roman Catholic Church?... a wolf in sheep's clothing... a false religion... a cult, just like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness.If you actually stopped believing the lies that have been put in front of your eyes by this cult, and actually read God's Word, you would see it for what it is.
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Super Kal;60467)
    and your so called "futuristic revelation" was made by the same people that killed millions of Christians for reading an English Bible... The Jesuit Order...BY THE WAY... the rapture doctrine that this site is so much against... where do you think that came from?... a man named Emmanuel Lacunza... you know what he was... a Jesuit Priest.do you know who invented Preterism?... Luis De Alcazar. Who was Alcazar?... a Jesuit Priestdo you know who founded the Jesuit Order?... THE ROMAN FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH.you want to know who made Dispensationalism ultra popular?... John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield... the were the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who spread the false doctrine of the rapture into Protestantism... which of course came from THE ROMAN FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH.The SAME church that claims that the Pope (a human being) is infallible...the SAME church that claims Mary (a human being) is sinless and perfect...the SAME church that claims Christ's sacrifice was not enough and that me must do works to get into heaven...the SAME church that holds tradition equal with the Bible...the SAME church who questions the deity of Christ by teaching Darwinian Evolution in their classroom...the SAME church that taught one could buy their way into heavenwhat is the roman Catholic Church?... a wolf in sheep's clothing... a false religion... a cult, just like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness.If you actually stopped believing the lies that have been put in front of your eyes by this cult, and actually read God's Word, you would see it for what it is.
    Whoa some strong tone and a strong language starting to come out. And there are many false religions, not just Roman Catholic Church.Thanks, but no thanks, I'll stick with God and His Words. Satan will absorb ALL religion and make a One World Religion. God said that Satan will cause the world to worship him. Do you think RCC will cause the world to worship them? I'm afraid not.
     
  10. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    I had a tremendously rough day today, jordan, and just to let you know, that was not strong language... that was me holding back a lot of extreme frustration.... believe me, if I didn't, I would of screamed my head offpeople already worship the pope as Christ, Jordan... who in the world is infallible? no one... only God. They only recently made the Pope infallible in aprox. 1870... please , I suggest you do some research on what exactly happened from the early 12th century to the 17th century... you'd be extremely amazed.you mentioned something that caught my interest... Pope John Paul II himself had a conference held in Assisi, Colorado in October 28, 1986 about trying to gather world peace (120 representatives of different religions and Christian denominations were there except the Jehovah's Witness... and I do not consider Catholicism "Christianity"... and he was also quoted by saying all religions worshiped the same God)... now come on... please think about this... you yourself said that
    Satan will absorb ALL religion and make a One World Religion"...
    ... what do you think the pope just tried to do that day?...again, there is one thing I do not agree with Alpha & Omega... I do not think the Pope is the AntichristBut I know that if Satan does try it again, and he will, he will succeed, and since the Roman Catholic Church already teaches that the Pope is a god on earth, what better religion to use other than the religion that mocks God at every turn and still calls itself "Christian" even though it damns millions of people to hell?
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    All I can say is thats not what Gods Word says the Whole world will follow the beast if you think the pope can get you to follow him then perhaps you are right but everyone knows the pope is thought by many to be the antichrist all the more reason he is not as the whole world will believe anti christ is christ... how many are going to believe this you me anybody else believing this ???? All the world will believe the antichrist is Christ himself a delusion so great God has to shorten the time he is here or even the Elect would be fooled if it were possable ... If you think the Pope can do that then your not listening to God but to men .... but hey if thats what you want to to believe go for it your choice but please dont try argue it as biblical fact. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your information on the rapture doctrine is incorrect it was dreamt up by a young girl named Margret Mcdonald and picked up and spread by a man named Darby. Your information on a priest was only a couple lines found amoung a few poems that is all that survivesof this guys work it was a misinterptation of the parable of the tares there is no evidence this was ever taught to anyone before Darby.Futher more only one person Grant Jeffery has been quoted as saying he has read this. It was not the taught before Margret MacDonald http://www.scionofzion.com/pretrib_rapture_diehards.htm
     
  12. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    again... I DO NOT THINK THE POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST.how many times do I have to say that before you actually listen?and a couple of lines of poetry, huh?...Do me a favor, Christina... go look up the book "The Coming of Messiah in Power and Glory"... you can even read some of it here[url="http://lacunza.org/download.htm]http://lacunza.org/download.htm[/url]Lacunza said in his book that there would be two second Comings... he labeled the "epiphaneia" and the "parousia" as two completely different events, when 2 Thessalonians 2:8 says that they are exactly the same (the brightness of His coming)... people do use the parable of the tares, christina, but that is not the main part of the Bible that they use to prove it... I have most of all heard them use "The Day and the hour Unknown", the parable of the Ten Virgins, Revelation 3:10, 2 Peter 2:9, and the Thief in the Night parable... I know what arguments they use Christina... on multiply, I had an endless debate on the subject, bringing up every single argument that they use to try and support their belief in the rapture... scripture such as Revelation 4:1 and 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7your claim that there was no teaching of the rapture before Margaret MacDonald is incorrect... not only did Lacunza teach it under the pen name Rabbi Ben-Ezra, but there was a book written by a man named Morgan Edwards in 1788 with the book "Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties"http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/...ine/morgan.htmlIn this book, Morgan Edwards said that the Millennium would occur in 1996, 3 1/2 years after the rapture, and that the lake of fire and brimstone was going to be on the moon. He even said his book was "a novelty" and "perhaps nonsense".Your info and knowledge of the history on the pre-trib rapture is incomplete, christina.
     
  13. precepts

    precepts Member

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    Christina's
    All I can say is thats not what Gods Word says the Whole world will follow the beast if you think the pope can get you to follow him then perhaps you are right but everyone knows the pope is thought by many to be the antichrist all the more reason he is not as the whole world will believe anti christ is christ... how many are going to believe this you me anybody else believing this ???? All the world will believe the antichrist is Christ himself a delusion so great God has to shorten the time he is here or even the Elect would be fooled if it were possable ... If you think the Pope can do that then your not listening to God but to men .... but hey if thats what you want to to believe go for it your choice but please dont try argue it as biblical fact.
    The papacy as "the Mother of Harlots" has already decieved the world by claiming to have an image of the living God! What about the so-called prayer shawl. The powers that be promotes these Anti-christ images and idealogy. The papacy is looked upon as the institution of Christianity by the secular world. The world is decieved! As for the rapture, it's carnal minded. Why would we recieve glorified bodies if we're going to live on the earth? Just like the early Jews, Christianity has become carnal minded. Christ said he went to prepare a place for us in heaven not earth. How must a man be born again to enter the kingdom of God? Ressurection, is how, except for the "tares" parable/rapture at the end of the world with our glorified bodies!
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Christina's (Christina;60493)
    All I can say is thats not what Gods Word says the Whole world will follow the beast if you think the pope can get you to follow him then perhaps you are right but everyone knows the pope is thought by many to be the antichrist all the more reason he is not as the whole world will believe anti christ is christ... how many are going to believe this you me anybody else believing this ???? All the world will believe the antichrist is Christ himself a delusion so great God has to shorten the time he is here or even the Elect would be fooled if it were possable ... If you think the Pope can do that then your not listening to God but to men .... but hey if thats what you want to to believe go for it your choice but please dont try argue it as biblical fact. ...
    The papacy as "the Mother of Harlots" has already decieved the world by claiming to have an image of the living God! What about the so-called prayer shawl. The powers that be promotes these Anti-christ images and idealogy. The papacy is looked upon as the institution of Christianity by the secular world. The world is decieved! As for the rapture, it's carnal minded. Why would we recieve glorified bodies if we're going to live on the earth? Just like the early Jews, Christianity has become carnal minded. Christ said he went to prepare a place for us in heaven not earth. How must a man be born again to enter the kingdom of God? Ressurection, is how, except for the "tares" parable/rapture at the end of the world with our glorified bodies!More junk from men!
     
  15. precepts

    precepts Member

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    Quote:Originally Posted by precepts Christina'sQuote:Originally Posted by Christina All I can say is thats not what Gods Word says the Whole world will follow the beast if you think the pope can get you to follow him then perhaps you are right but everyone knows the pope is thought by many to be the antichrist all the more reason he is not as the whole world will believe anti christ is christ... how many are going to believe this you me anybody else believing this ???? All the world will believe the antichrist is Christ himself a delusion so great God has to shorten the time he is here or even the Elect would be fooled if it were possable ... If you think the Pope can do that then your not listening to God but to men .... but hey if thats what you want to to believe go for it your choice but please dont try argue it as biblical fact. ... The papacy as "the Mother of Harlots" has already decieved the world by claiming to have an image of the living God! What about the so-called prayer shawl. The powers that be promotes these Anti-christ images and idealogy. The papacy is looked upon as the institution of Christianity by the secular world. The world is decieved! As for the rapture, it's carnal minded. Why would we recieve glorified bodies if we're going to live on the earth? Just like the early Jews, Christianity has become carnal minded.Christ said he went to prepare a place for us in heaven not earth. How must a man be born again to enter the kingdom of God? Ressurection, is how, except for the "tares" parable/rapture at the end of the world with our glorified bodies! More junk from men!
    Once again without the facts!
     
  16. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    More junk from men!
    just because Bullinger said so?wasn't E.W. Bulligner just a man as well?
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    More junk from men!
    just because Bullinger said so?wasn't E.W. Bulligner just a man as well?I don't even know who E.W. Bullinger is. And I wish everybody stop using other men at me as a defensive shield.
     
  18. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    Christina's The papacy as "the Mother of Harlots" has already decieved the world by claiming to have an image of the living God! What about the so-called prayer shawl. The powers that be promotes these Anti-christ images and idealogy. The papacy is looked upon as the institution of Christianity by the secular world. The world is decieved!
    as far as the papacy is concerned, I'm not convinced that the Pope is the Antichrist. One reason why I hold to that is because what Daniel 12:3-4 says... How could the Pope be the Antichrist when people were not going to and fro and increasing knowledge?... the only time we have come to see that is in recent times with internet, and ipod, and television, and radio, and things of that nature... they had nothing of that sort in the mid 15th century
    As for the rapture, it's carnal minded. Why would we receive glorified bodies if we're going to live on the earth? Just like the early Jews, Christianity has become carnal minded. Christ said he went to prepare a place for us in heaven not earth. How must a man be born again to enter the kingdom of God? Ressurection, is how, except for the "tares" parable/rapture at the end of the world with our glorified bodies!
    it is indeed carnal minded... it is a dangerous teaching that says people won't be here when it begins when the bible specifically says otherwise...
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    just because Bullinger said so?wasn't E.W. Bulligner just a man as well?
    No because Gods Word says so. If you stop listening to men
     
  20. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    then why don't you stop listening to E.W. Bullinger, because he was also just a man
     
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