Right but God is always correct thats why we follow him and his Word all those are religions and interptations of men . But if God says it first using men as a second wittness is acceptable thats where bullinger comes in its not his doctrine its Gods he only serves as a second wittness where he is in agreement with God.We can not do it the other way around take mens doctrine and then try making it fit God word
I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her
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tomwebster
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(Christina;62765)
Right but God is always correct thats why we follow him and his Word all those are religions and interptations of men . But if God says it first using men as a second wittness is acceptable thats where bullinger comes in its not his doctrine its Gods he only serves as a second wittness where he is in agreement with God.
And we are taught to 'check out" everyone against Scripture. I am able to separate the good from the questionable. I don't agree with Bullinger on 100% of his work. I don't agree with any man on 100% of his work. I check out every man with Scripture.
Right but God is always correct thats why we follow him and his Word all those are religions and interptations of men . But if God says it first using men as a second wittness is acceptable thats where bullinger comes in its not his doctrine its Gods he only serves as a second wittness where he is in agreement with God.
And we are taught to 'check out" everyone against Scripture. I am able to separate the good from the questionable. I don't agree with Bullinger on 100% of his work. I don't agree with any man on 100% of his work. I check out every man with Scripture.
(Christina;62761)
I dont know how you gather that sense God starts telling us that is going to happen in Genesis and it follows through the entire Bible until his return. It might be your interpretation but its wrong. Its the very basis of Gods plan to open salvation to gentile (all) and maintain a remnant that preserves the Law. Saying they not divided is to say the Old testament is useless and that he wasted 2000 years on the Jews and laying out the laws so he could just say cancel... that lets start all over with the new testament and saying they are same also is not true. the law and Grace are two seprate parts They are not the same thing the christian church has not replaced the Jew they are two branches from the same tree one representing Old testament Law/one representing New testament of Grace they will be joined together under Jesus Christ when he returns as King of Kings making the true church body, the Bride
Covenant Theology does not say that the old testament is canceled or abolished... it says the exact opposite, as a matter of fact, it's Dispensationalism that claims that there are two programs that God use: one for the Church, and one for Israel. It claims that when Christ died, one program/dispensation was canceled/aborted/abolished, and a completely new dispensation started.Covenant Theology says that there were two Covenants: the first one was the Covenant of the Law, which was given to the Jews. You see it in the Laws of Moses. That Covenant of the Law was later fulfilled through Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross, and now today a new covenant is in place, a Covenant of Grace, hence Matthew 5:17... the Laws of Moses were never canceled or abolished... they were simply fulfilled through Christ.There are some Covenant heologians that think there are 3 covenants, but I don't hold to that teaching.Romans 11:11-24 explains how we are of the same olive tree, just as described in Galatians 3 how there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles, and if we are of Christ, then the are are part of that Abrahamic seed, and heirs according to the promise...this is the extreme basics of Covenant Theology... I don't necessarily hold to New Covenant Theology; I simply hold to the basics, because it's when we start to go to the extreme is when we start to lose sight of what the bible is trying to say... sometimes we over-analyze things, and try to look for something that isn't there... kinda like the pre-trib rapture doctrine
so, if there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles as mentioned in Galatians... then why do dispensationalists still insist that there is a difference? 
see, this is where I get completely confused when it comes to dispensationalism, and that's why I question it... even the Bible tells us to test everything, and to hold fast to that which is good. That's all I'm doing right now... testing dispensationalism
I dont know how you gather that sense God starts telling us that is going to happen in Genesis and it follows through the entire Bible until his return. It might be your interpretation but its wrong. Its the very basis of Gods plan to open salvation to gentile (all) and maintain a remnant that preserves the Law. Saying they not divided is to say the Old testament is useless and that he wasted 2000 years on the Jews and laying out the laws so he could just say cancel... that lets start all over with the new testament and saying they are same also is not true. the law and Grace are two seprate parts They are not the same thing the christian church has not replaced the Jew they are two branches from the same tree one representing Old testament Law/one representing New testament of Grace they will be joined together under Jesus Christ when he returns as King of Kings making the true church body, the Bride
Covenant Theology does not say that the old testament is canceled or abolished... it says the exact opposite, as a matter of fact, it's Dispensationalism that claims that there are two programs that God use: one for the Church, and one for Israel. It claims that when Christ died, one program/dispensation was canceled/aborted/abolished, and a completely new dispensation started.Covenant Theology says that there were two Covenants: the first one was the Covenant of the Law, which was given to the Jews. You see it in the Laws of Moses. That Covenant of the Law was later fulfilled through Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross, and now today a new covenant is in place, a Covenant of Grace, hence Matthew 5:17... the Laws of Moses were never canceled or abolished... they were simply fulfilled through Christ.There are some Covenant heologians that think there are 3 covenants, but I don't hold to that teaching.Romans 11:11-24 explains how we are of the same olive tree, just as described in Galatians 3 how there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles, and if we are of Christ, then the are are part of that Abrahamic seed, and heirs according to the promise...this is the extreme basics of Covenant Theology... I don't necessarily hold to New Covenant Theology; I simply hold to the basics, because it's when we start to go to the extreme is when we start to lose sight of what the bible is trying to say... sometimes we over-analyze things, and try to look for something that isn't there... kinda like the pre-trib rapture doctrine
see, this is where I get completely confused when it comes to dispensationalism, and that's why I question it... even the Bible tells us to test everything, and to hold fast to that which is good. That's all I'm doing right now... testing dispensationalism(Christina;62765)
Right but God is always correct thats why we follow him and his Word
I completely agree with you on this, Christina, in all aspects... God is always right... but we must always be on the look for false prophets and false doctrines/teachings and the like... they're extremely rampant these days. that's one of the reasons as to why God tells us to test everything... to make sure the doctrines we are following are indeed that of God.
Right but God is always correct thats why we follow him and his Word
I completely agree with you on this, Christina, in all aspects... God is always right... but we must always be on the look for false prophets and false doctrines/teachings and the like... they're extremely rampant these days. that's one of the reasons as to why God tells us to test everything... to make sure the doctrines we are following are indeed that of God.
(Super Kal;62768)
Covenant Theology does not say that the old testament is canceled or abolished... it says the exact opposite, as a matter of fact, it's Dispensationalism that claims that there are two programs that God use: one for the Church, and one for Israel. It claims that when Christ died, one program/dispensation was canceled/aborted/abolished, and a completely new dispensation started.Covenant Theology says that there were two Covenants: the first one was the Covenant of the Law, which was given to the Jews. You see it in the Laws of Moses. That Covenant of the Law was later fulfilled through Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross, and now today a new covenant is in place, a Covenant of Grace, hence Matthew 5:17... the Laws of Moses were never canceled or abolished... they were simply fulfilled through Christ.There are some Covenant heologians that think there are 3 covenants, but I don't hold to that teaching.Romans 11:11-24 explains how we are of the same olive tree, just as described in Galatians 3 how there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles, and if we are of Christ, then the are are part of that Abrahamic seed, and heirs according to the promise...this is the extreme basics of Covenant Theology... I don't necessarily hold to New Covenant Theology; I simply hold to the basics, because it's when we start to go to the extreme is when we start to lose sight of what the bible is trying to say... sometimes we over-analyze things, and try to look for something that isn't there... kinda like the pre-trib rapture doctrine
so, if there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles as mentioned in Galatians... then why do dispensationalists still insist that there is a difference? see, this is where I get completely confused when it comes to dispensationalism, and that's why I question it... even the Bible tells us to test everything, and to hold fast to that which is good. That's all I'm doing right now... testing dispensationalism
Well I dont know where your getting your information or you are completely misunderstanding Dispensationalism it does not teach any such thing it simply teaches God uses different times to teach in a continuing process according to his plan. The same way a parent raises a child you dont keep teachong a teenager like you do an infant. Old testament was Law .. Christ came not to change any Law but to fulfill it its as relevant today as the day he gave it. Only the way the we repent for breaking the Law has been fulfilled under Grace in Jesus Christ death on the cross. And Christ is the olive tree and there is no difference between Jew and gentile under Christ... However you are missing the key point here most Jews are not yet under Christ they are still two sticks still divided. They have been put under a slumber by God to preserve the Law until the time of the gentile is over.
Covenant Theology does not say that the old testament is canceled or abolished... it says the exact opposite, as a matter of fact, it's Dispensationalism that claims that there are two programs that God use: one for the Church, and one for Israel. It claims that when Christ died, one program/dispensation was canceled/aborted/abolished, and a completely new dispensation started.Covenant Theology says that there were two Covenants: the first one was the Covenant of the Law, which was given to the Jews. You see it in the Laws of Moses. That Covenant of the Law was later fulfilled through Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross, and now today a new covenant is in place, a Covenant of Grace, hence Matthew 5:17... the Laws of Moses were never canceled or abolished... they were simply fulfilled through Christ.There are some Covenant heologians that think there are 3 covenants, but I don't hold to that teaching.Romans 11:11-24 explains how we are of the same olive tree, just as described in Galatians 3 how there is no difference in Jews or Gentiles, and if we are of Christ, then the are are part of that Abrahamic seed, and heirs according to the promise...this is the extreme basics of Covenant Theology... I don't necessarily hold to New Covenant Theology; I simply hold to the basics, because it's when we start to go to the extreme is when we start to lose sight of what the bible is trying to say... sometimes we over-analyze things, and try to look for something that isn't there... kinda like the pre-trib rapture doctrine
see, this is where I get completely confused when it comes to dispensationalism, and that's why I question it... even the Bible tells us to test everything, and to hold fast to that which is good. That's all I'm doing right now... testing dispensationalismWell I dont know where your getting your information or you are completely misunderstanding Dispensationalism it does not teach any such thing it simply teaches God uses different times to teach in a continuing process according to his plan. The same way a parent raises a child you dont keep teachong a teenager like you do an infant. Old testament was Law .. Christ came not to change any Law but to fulfill it its as relevant today as the day he gave it. Only the way the we repent for breaking the Law has been fulfilled under Grace in Jesus Christ death on the cross. And Christ is the olive tree and there is no difference between Jew and gentile under Christ... However you are missing the key point here most Jews are not yet under Christ they are still two sticks still divided. They have been put under a slumber by God to preserve the Law until the time of the gentile is over.
This has not happened this after Christ returns and dwells with us this is after he joins the two sticks (branches)Eze 37:22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. 23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KalAnd thats why there is a election of race and a election of grace.
In order for grace to come forward, God needed a chosen race.Therefore Christina is correct, the race (if they follow Christ) and the grace will come to Christ as two branches and Christ the Tree of Life.
christina, that's one of the basics of dispensationalism... it teaches that there are 7 different dispensations...innocenceconsciencegovernmentpatriarchal ruleMosaic LawgraceMillennial**even though Ultradispensationalism (what Bullinger teaches in the Companion Bible) disagrees when the Dispensation of Grace is supposedly activatedPerhaps the central doctrine of dispensationalism is the distinction between Israel and the church. Dispensationalism sees Israel as an earthly people with earthly promises, and the church as a heavenly people with heavenly promises. Membership in Israel is by natural birth. One enters the church by supernatural birth. Dispensationalists view Israel and the church as having distinct eternal destinies. Israel will receive an eternal earthly Kingdom, and the church an eternal heavenly Kingdom.Darby stated the distinction in the clearest of terms:"The Jewish nation is never to enter the church."Ryrie considers this the most important dispensational distinction, and approves the statement that..."the basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." In contrast, Christian theology has always maintained the essential continuity of Israel and the church. The elect of all the ages are seen as one people, with one Savior, one destiny. This continuity can be shown by examining a few Old Testament prophesies with their fulfillment. Dispensationalists admit that if the church can be shown to be fulfilling promises made to Israel their system is doomed. If the church is fulfilling Israel's promises as contained in the new covenant or anywhere in the Scriptures, then [dispensational] premillennialism is condemned.Promise to Israel -"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There it shall be said to them, 'You are sons of the living God.' -Hosea 1:10Fulfillment the church -"What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." -Romans 9:22-26Promise to Israel -"Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; Then I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they shall say, 'You are my God!'" -Hosea 2:23Fulfillment in the church -"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy." - 1 Peter 2:9-10Promise to Israel -"On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair itsdamages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old;" -Amos 9:11Fulfillment in the church -Simon has declared how God at first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. "And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 'After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.'" Acts 15:14-18In the same manner there are many Old Testament passages referring to Israel that are in the New Testament applied directly to the church.Spoken to Israel -"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls." -Joel 2:28-32Applied to the church -When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place..."But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on my maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; and they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' -Acts 2:1,16-21Spoken to Israel -'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel." -Exodus 19:6Applied to the church -"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"-1 Peter 2:9 Spoken to Israel -"My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people."-Ezekiel 37:27Applied to the church -"And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." -2 Corinthians 6:16 Spoken to Israel -"Speak to all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say to them: 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy." -Leviticus 19:2Applied to the church -"but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." -1 Peter 1:15-16 Spoken to Israel -"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--" -Jeremiah 31:31Applied to the church -"Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you." -Luke 22:20
tomwebster
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(Super Kal;62781)
what Bullinger teaches in the Companion Bible) does not teach that there was a dispensation of grace.
Wrong!!!!!Pg 84, How to enjoy the Bible, EW Bullinger
what Bullinger teaches in the Companion Bible) does not teach that there was a dispensation of grace.
Wrong!!!!!Pg 84, How to enjoy the Bible, EW Bullinger
read it wrong... my bad. They disagree when the Dispensation of Grace begins... still doesn't change what the post says, though.
you can find most of it herehttp://www.jesus-is-lord.com/dispensa.htmanother reason why I don't hold to dispensationalism is because it opens up the idea of actually supporting a pre-tribulational rapture, and the possibility of multiple raptures... which are false.
Darby was an idiot taking his words for much of anything is a mistake your verses where ever you got them are all mixed up I dont know what they are supposed to prove. Again you are assuming we are following men before God. Seems you always hear men first. Do you know how to follow scripture without mans interptation. Its your lack to understand whats being said the church is the Bride.the two sticks Jew and Gentile joined together after Christs return. Thats why its not earthly. The whole house of Israel is all 12 tribes but these tribes are currently divided into the ten lost tribes (many nations, peoples, gentiles ) and 2 tribes (that make up the remnant) At Christ return they are Joined creating the true church (bride of Christ)the seven dispensations are simply the divisions of the progression of the way we are taught. Adam and Eve were innocent ... then they sinned ...conscience that required a different set of teachings.... that's common sense... have you ever been a parent or raised a puppy ... as they learn and circumstance change ... so does your teaching progressSeems we are the ones who believe this...... and yet you are the one telling us what we believe ......... yet what you say it says is not what it teaches....You just flat have what it teaches wrong ......
I'm sorry, Christina, but I don't hold to ultra/hyper/dispensationalism, because I see that fallacies and inerrancy in that theology.
tomwebster
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Eight is better, then they line up with the numbers:I) -------1st world age -----------------------2) edenic --------------------------3) Mankind -----------------------------4) Israel law II) ------2nd World age-------5) grace -----------------------------6) judicial --------------------------7) millenial ------------------------8 ) eternal (III) 3rd World age
(Super Kal;62787)
you can find most of it herehttp://www.jesus-is-lord.com/dispensa.htmanother reason why I don't hold to dispensationalism is because it opens up the idea of actually supporting a pre-tribulational rapture, and the possibility of multiple raptures... which are false.
That site along with www.jesus-is-savior.com has just about many flaws like that site I just listed. I used to believe everything they said, and it's not healthy.
you can find most of it herehttp://www.jesus-is-lord.com/dispensa.htmanother reason why I don't hold to dispensationalism is because it opens up the idea of actually supporting a pre-tribulational rapture, and the possibility of multiple raptures... which are false.
That site along with www.jesus-is-savior.com has just about many flaws like that site I just listed. I used to believe everything they said, and it's not healthy.
the key thing is to test everything, including what Bullinger taught... and I don't hold to his teaching.if you want to get down to it, then read what the other side has to sayhttp://www.againstdispensationalism.com/95theses.shtml
(Christina;62789)
...Seems we are the ones who believe this...... and yet you are the one telling us what we believe ......... yet what you say it says is not what it teaches....You just flat have what it teaches wrong ......
Kal, Just in case you didn't read Christina's additional edited post.
...Seems we are the ones who believe this...... and yet you are the one telling us what we believe ......... yet what you say it says is not what it teaches....You just flat have what it teaches wrong ......
Kal, Just in case you didn't read Christina's additional edited post.
It doesn't matter what you or I say... the only thing that matters is what God says... and God just gave you 95 reasons from His Word to let you know that you're believing in a lie...but I doubt you're going to read those reasons, because you probably don't want to make the effort of actually testing to see if what Bullinger taught is actually scriptural or not.you're not going to listen because you don't want to hear what the word of God says... i hope one day that He changes your mind and heart.I'm through with this. there's no point in discussing this with those who are blinded by the interpretation of men.
(Super Kal;62797)
It doesn't matter what you or I say... the only thing that matters is what God says... and God just gave you 95 reasons from His Word to let you know that you're believing in a lie...but I doubt you're going to read those reasons, because you probably don't want to make the effort of actually testing to see if what Bullinger taught is actually scriptural or not.
And for that reason, you say what we teach is of men? How can men and God be correct at the same time. 95 what's reasons? 95 men's reasoning means nothing to me. It fact 1 God reason is enough.To me, it's like you are saying Satan is right all along.
It doesn't matter what you or I say... the only thing that matters is what God says... and God just gave you 95 reasons from His Word to let you know that you're believing in a lie...but I doubt you're going to read those reasons, because you probably don't want to make the effort of actually testing to see if what Bullinger taught is actually scriptural or not.
And for that reason, you say what we teach is of men? How can men and God be correct at the same time. 95 what's reasons? 95 men's reasoning means nothing to me. It fact 1 God reason is enough.To me, it's like you are saying Satan is right all along.
You know it reminds of what Christ's said of the Mount of Sermon.Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.Matthew 7:2 - For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.Matthew 7:3 - And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?Matthew 7:4 - Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?Matthew 7:5 - Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
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