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Featured I wonder where this might lead...

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by brakelite, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    lol, so iow dialectically speaking she was the lost sheep (not all who are born Israel are of Israel) and they were for the most part the dogs, following (commending) each other in files and rows, etc
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    And yet the angel had to stop Abraham mid-stroke saying after..."now I know you are okay seeing you were willing to give your son, your only son to me". I think Abraham was of a mind to go ahead, and perhaps at that final stage was thinking perhaps a special resurrection maybe?
     
  4. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    Yes, I think Jesus was giving Israel every opportunity to fulfil their destiny, and then they murdered Stephen. It was after that Paul was converted and sent to the Gentiles, along with several others. Peter to local Romans (Cornelius), Philip to the Ethiopian, and Thomas eventually went to India and beyond. The 'dogs' appreciated their scraps more than Israel (the nation) did her seasoned steaks it seems.
     
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  5. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The most interesting and informative verse about who the Gospel was intended for is; Matthew 15:24 God sent Jesus to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    He knew that the Jews; the House of Judah, would refuse the Gospel, but the real descendants of Israel, would accept it.
    Isaiah 45:5-6....Although you have not known Me, I have called you by name and given you a title, I will strengthen you, so that from East to West, all may know Me.
    Now; every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language. The Overcomers for God, His true Israelite people.
     
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  6. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    Remembering it was Satan who first coveted a position equal to God...he wanted worship...even to the insane point of requesting worship of his own Creator at the time of Jesus' temptations in the wilderness. So it was Satan who began the rebellion, but had to garner support. So began the concept of politicking. Of course God Himself knew what was going on, would have known in advance, but allowed the situation to run its course. I think there are deep sound reasons God acted in this way, that even impacts on us for eternity, and has to do with the future security of God's people, but in the meantime, there's pain.
    So formerly loyal angels who may possibly never had any issues with the way God ran things, for some reason became unsatisfied with the status quo. I don't think Satan would have succeeded in creating such a debacle if he hadn't succeeded in convincing those angels that Satan had their best interests at heart, and God didn't. And yes, I see the only way maybe was to promise them something they had never had nor even thought they wanted, before. Typical sales pitch. Create a need then fill it.
    But with angels in heaven, we must surely be extremely limited as to what they didn't have, that they thought they needed in order to live a more fulfilled life. Thus is the deception and cunning of the serpent. He did that with A&E. Did God say you can't eat of that tree? Really? What is He holding back from you I wonder? I think that if you knew good and evil, you also would be like Him. You too can be gods.
     
  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    you've done a lot of anthropomorphising there, spirits with emotions i don't know...spirits with needs? You think?

    part 1up there imo describes "satan," who appeals to us via acquiring?
     
  8. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    Continuing on...I think that's likely that the angels became dissatisfied with life as it was that they asked Satan to be their leader. He would have sown the discord but all the while standing aloof from the actual controversy, as if he was still serving God, but behind the scenes cleverly dividing their loyalties. When the crunch came, they needed a leader. Oh, why not ask Satan? He has the ear of God, he understands us, he knows our needs, he is close to the throne,....
    Did you realise that in Revelation 13 it is the second beast that convinces the people to make an image to the first beast? That to me suggests a democracy. So throughout society we now have discord, violence, rebellion, dissatisfaction with governments, greed for stuff we don't need, confusion over who is actually in charge...I think it will be the people themselves who ask for the Antichrist to take charge and set things right. Order from chaos. Foment discord and distrust on both sides, which is what has been happening now for centuries, have the extremes rubbing up against one another to create friction, then tell all sides, you have a problem (we created) that we can fix (which is what we wanted all along) and we have just the man...and off to the side is this humble popular self effacing Pope who doesn't really want to be the top dog, but oh, if you say so I will do my best...yeah, right. It's what the Vatican and secret societies have been working on along. And I see Satan's hand behind the whole thing. The same method he used in heaven...the same method he used with Adam and Eve. Left/right...democrat/republican...conservative/liberal...communism/capitalism...libertarianism/despotism...thesis/antithesis...
    and here before you ladies and gentlemen, the synthesis...
    140818081524-02-pope-sk-0818-horizontal-gallery.jpg
     
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  9. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    I order to rebel, they had to have free will. And if you don't think Satan has emotions, you haven't met him.
     
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  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha ok, but you sound awful sure bl, and this is a further sign to me wadr
     
  11. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    I have met spirits. I have spoken to them, and been spoken to. They hate, they threaten, they curse. They also fear, and instill fear in those they can. They seemed pretty emotional to me at the time.
     
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  12. 4Jesus

    4Jesus Well-Known Member

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    Seconded, personally.

    Also seconded because of Revelation 12:12 "12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

    Wrath is anger, an emotion.

    They absolutely love to humiliate and defile - anything in the image of God, aka humans, put it down, down, down.
     
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  13. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    How do you know that hasn't already taken place? How would you know that the pronouncements and declarations of faith, the encyclicals etc are not just the soft serve ice cream to comfort the average member, while behind the scenes the masonic agenda is not just being carried on with, but promoted assiduously by all members of the curia? How do you know that the entire institution itself hasn't already been taken over by interests not in harmony with your personal faith paradigm, and has been for a long time, and what you see and hear, and what your local parish priests see and hear, is what you are meant to see and hear to stop you from rebelling against the system? Much like what the MSM media dishes out today throughout the world. Fake news. Yes, your personal faith is secure (thus Jesus has fulfilled His promise that the church shall not be overcome) and also that of your friends, your family, and many no doubt of your local priests and bishops. This is the church. But every secret society has an upper chamber of initiates who are not in the slightest interested in the common member who is there to continue the charity work and getting along with his neighbour. This is the same within the Vatican as well as Islam, Communism, Freemasonry, and many other world religions and institutions. Most of what you see is show. Many are ostensibly enemies. Even at war. There is death, pain, friction and conflict on all sides. But at the top the leaders are joined at the hip, and all have the same agenda. (You would be aware of the links between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family right? Between all the royal houses of Europe? Between the various presidents of the USA who were all descendants of royalty, irrespective of which party they belonged to? The providence of arms to both sides of conflicts from the same source? The common symbolism and signs that are arrayed in plain sight throughout all the seeming disparate organisations across the globe but are in essence all showing allegiance to a single united source? Even in St Peter's Basilica, the Vatican museum, and other major cathedrals across the globe, these symbols indicate the presence of an authority that in philosophy and direction something far different to what you and I would believe in.
    In America, the plan is to destroy the constitution. Destroy capitalism. Join the church with the state, remove democracy and instill fascism. Globally, through the UN, the agenda is to unite all religion under the headship of Rome, and have the world governments unite into ten districts who give their allegiance to Rome. "These ten kings shall give their authority one hour with the beast". The 'church' Jesus said would survive isn't an institution called "The Holy Roman Catholic Church". It is the ekklesia worldwide made up of individuals such as you and me who are redeemed and made one spiritually in Christ.
     
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  14. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    So, in the above two posts I have offered a scenario, painted by scripture itself, of an institution being established specifically for the purpose of counterfeiting the true Christ...creating in other words antichrist...instead of...in place of...and therefore against, the real Christ in His offices of King, Prophet, and Priest. I do not think what I presented above is a distortion or an imaginary depiction of what the Bible tells us.
    So in the gospels and elsewhere, we have Christ, our true Messiah, Saviour, our King, who in His prophetic office encouraged righteousness, holiness, love, and expounded in many ways how we ought to live and relate both to God and our neighbour. And in His office as a faithful High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, He now intercedes, stands as our substitute before the throne of His Father, having our names engraved on the palms of His hands, promising never to forsake us or abandon us to our enemies.
    What Satan however has accomplished is to establish a counterfeit Christ. Not an individual, because no individual could possibly fulfil on his own all the criteria needful to meet the demands of prophecy. This counterfeit, this antichrist, this institution that stands as priest, prophet, and king, is designed to stand between man and God. To steer man away from God to another. And by surrendering our lives to the authority of the counterfeit, we are offering our lives to the authority of the one who established it, the one who gave it his power, his throne, and his authority, the dragon. You would be aware of course by now that the institution I refer to is the Papacy. Not the Catholic individual who frequents these boards, but the system itself. Now I have not picked this particular institution out of thin air for want of a candidate. I do not expose this institution lightly, nor is it without evidence. And because we are discussing the antichrist , I am not doing this for fun or to sow discord or controversy...although I have no doubt there is a distinct possibility of such occurring. Such is always the case when uncomfortable topics are raised. The question is of course, and the one some of you have been wondering, what evidence is there that the Papacy has fulfilled those same criteria that the beast of Revelation fills in regards to the characteristics of being antichrist?
    Rose up out of water? Really? Was dead and was brought back to life? Only lived for 3 1/2 years? 42 months? 1260 days??? Please brakelite, you know that's all impossible. And what about the looking like a leopard, a lion, and a bear, not forgetting the fourth beast that had iron teeth and several heads and crowns? And what about the blasphemies, the warring against the saints, and how could it be that the Papacy will rule the whole world that the whole world will worship it? What about the other aspects that prophecy requires of being the antichrist? Would be in the temple and proclaim himself God? Does the Papacy really believe it possesses the prerogatives of divinity thus claiming to be God? Daniel said the little horn (the embryo of the Revelation 13 beast) of Daniel 7 would rise up among ten other horns/political powers. Who are they? And who were the ones she uprooted? Come on BL, the papacy couldn't possibly fulfill all those criteria.

    I think it strange so many of you would doubt such a scenario, considering you believe it absolutely possible that a future individual will accomplish just that. Yet all the reformers, almost without exception, believed the above not just possible, but was the one doctrine they all held in common. It was this one belief that sparked the counter reformation. Not justification by faith...not indulgences...the one belief that was doing the most damage to Catholicism was this identification of the Papacy as the antichrist. The reformers couldn't agree on other doctrines, they even persecuted one another over them. But on this they all agreed. Not because of jealousy...anger...vindictiveness...but because scripture pointed unmistakably directly at the Papacy as being the only viable candidate. Thus the counter reformation gave birth to the Jesuits...and the Jesuits adopted an agenda with the sole purpose of regaining Papal dominion in religion and politics, and destroying Protestantism. To do the latter, the Jesuits had to devise a new method of interpreting scripture. They couldn't deny what the reformers were teaching. So they had to change the hermeneutic. So one reinvented and enhanced preterism, with a few appropriate modifications, while another reinvented futurism, again with a few adjustments and tweaks that made it more convincing. Both took a while to take hold, but through people like Darby and Schofield, futurism took hold and the result? The Christian church today completely overlooks 2000 years of church history, discards the historicist hermeneutic of the reformation upon which they claim allegiance, and the Papacy sits in the middle very satisfied with itself in being able to hide while everyone else dukes it out.
    So how does the Papacy fulfil all those characteristics and criteria of placing itself in a position of a counterfeit Christ?
    She has to fulfil the following from Revelation 13...
    • Rise from water...oh, and then sit on it as a part of Babylon the Great, being Mother...
    • Receive her power, her throne, and her authority from the dragon...
    • Live for 1260 days or 42 months (3 1/2 years) in its initial phase...
    • Blaspheme...
    • Persecute Christians (saints)...
    • Have the characteristics of a leopard, a bear, a lion, and a dragon...
    • Die from a mortal wound to its head...
    • Be resurrected...
    • Proclaim itself as God in His temple...
    • Be worshipped after her resurrection...
    If anyone can think of anything else, we'll discuss that to. Oh, and of course, not to forget those details from Daniel 7:19-26 some of which are the same as the above from Revelation...
    • Growing out of the head of the fourth beast...
    • Rising up (from water) among ten other political powers...
    • Uprooting three of them...
    • Living from the time of that fourth beast all the way down to the judgement...
    • But while being a horn as were the others it grew among, it was in some way diverse from them...
    • And yes, blasphemy and persecution of the saints during the same time period (3 1/2 years).
     
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  15. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff, Brakelite.
    But I still hold to the Anti-Christ being an individual, a charismatic and powerful man who will literally do what the prophets tell us. All those organizations will, of course, support him. Also the RCC is clearly identified in Revelation 17 and this man, the Anti-Christ will turn against it, plus all the other religions and destroy them all. People will have to worship him alone, or die.
    Here is my take on what its all about:

    Long ago, God, who has existed forever, formed the angelic beings, in order to serve Him in the Heavenly realms. There are a great number of angels and they have varying degrees of powers. The most powerful of these is Lucifer. [the light bearer]

    It was a sad day for God when Lucifer began to aspire to take over God’s kingship. Lucifer said; “I will be like the Most High.” Isaiah 14:12-14. Then he convinced a third of the other angels to go with him in rebellion against God.


    God had a dilemma. He couldn’t simply wipe out those beings that He had created, because as a perfect and righteous God, to arbitrarily destroy them would not prove His just sentence against them.

    What was required were witnesses – intelligent, unbiased and independent jurors to sit at this trial of Lucifer and his followers, so that the defendants could not say to God- you are unjust. Job 34:10-12

    So God thought about that universe that He had created in another dimension and tidied up a suitable planet in it. He prepared a beautiful garden, and then formed a man and a woman in His likeness. They were given free will over their actions.

    God may have been quite happy had Adam and Eve continued in obedience to Him. However, I guess God knew that they wouldn’t and sin came into this world, which does give humans the choice between good and evil.

    And so, the first civilization gradually fell into worse and worse sin, until God wiped them out with a great flood, saving only one family.

    Once again, the population increased and God decided that one righteous man would father a nation that would become “a light to all nations” in order to show the world His ways and be a people who would become His jurors and His friends. Isaiah 43:10-11

    God showed His love for these people by rescuing them from bondage in Egypt, giving them His laws and settling them into the Promised Land. According to His plan, they divided into two Kingdoms - the House of Judah and the House of Israel. 1 Kings 12:24

    Sadly, even these peoples backslid into apostasy and idolatry. So, ‘God flung them out of His presence.Jeremiah 23:39 They went into exile among the nations of the world. The House of Judah remains a visible entity, but the House of Israel is lost to our knowledge – only to be identified when all twelve tribes are gathered into the Land.


    Into Judah, God sent His Son, Jesus, to clearly tell all who would listen how to live righteously in God’s sight. In order to atone for men’s sins, there has to be a sacrifice.

    Jesus made that sacrifice for all those who accept Him as saviour, by His death on the Cross. He also demonstrated God’s power over death and Lucifer by rising to life again.


    Now, nearly two thousand years later, most of Judah still refuse to recognize the Messiah, but Righteous Israel – those who love God and follow in His ways – await their redemption. Soon the Promised Land will be cleared of all wicked peoples, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, + and His Christian people will gather in it with great joy and gladness. Isaiah 35:10, Revelation 7:9
     
  16. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Feeding dogs.

    The woman Jesus called a dog was from the same area Jezebel was from. Jezebel became food for the dogs. Was Jesus thinking about that when he said what he did?

    Was Jesus himself descended from Jezebel? We don't know, do we? A daughter of Ahab married into the Davidic line; but we're not told who her mother was. Another parallel? Jezebel and her daughter -- and a woman from Canaan with an afflicted daughter?
     
  17. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    As you no doubt know, Jesus's genealogy is checkered, in fact so checkered who would give his linage credibility if we were to go by the flesh. No, Jesus lineage is traced by those of faith. On hearing that his Mother and brothers are outside wanting his attention he points to those in close circle as he speaks to the multitude 'whoever does the will of God is both my Mother and brother and sister'
     
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  18. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Israel's mission was to bring the message of God to the Gentiles. If they were lost themselves in darkness, how could they do that? Thus it was essential that Jesus first waken up some of Israel so God's original plan would be fulfilled.

    Gentiles are added onto to the native olive tree. They do not supplant Israel. If some of the original Israel is cut off, they will be grafted back in.

    Jew and Gentile enter the kingdom together, hand in hand. Nothing changed with God's original plane. In Revelation, Israel is portrayed as the Bride of 144,000. The Gentiles are the wedding guests, the large multitude before the throne.
     
  19. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Because the daily sacrifice foretold by malachi 1:11 continues to be celebrated.

    2 reasons

    1. Faith in the Holy Spirit to guide, guard correct and lead the Church.
    2. schemers and plotters , do as the might, cannot stop the Church from praising God and celebrating the Eucharist.

    Because what I see and hear is what all the apostolic churches teach (more or less), and what I find taught by the Church throughout its history.
    It is this very unchanging 'deposit of faith' that you see preserved in communities with valid bishops and that is quickly diluted and/or changed by those who leave the apostolic communities

    They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number

    The Church is all of us. The good and the bad... I leave it up to the Holy Spirit to preserve her, and to Jesus to purify her, and through, with and in HIM we offer our sacrifice of praise, thanksgiving, and yes our very selves to the Father!

    Which is why this:

    cannot happen, for the whole life of the Church is centered on Jesus, and from Him her whole life flows. Any imposter or Judas who tried to replace celebration of the Eucharist with adoration of anyone or anything would immediately expose himself and be rejected.


    And yet it cannot stop us from continuing to glorify our Lord, Jesus Christ. pretty powerless isn't it. ;)


    The Church Jesus said would survive, is the community established by HIM through the apostles, those who faithfully pass on the One Loaf, and the One Cup given to them by Jesus.
    One cannot take it, they must receive it, and from the very beginning the authority to preside over it has been reserved to the bishops and those whom they have approved (ordained).
    Such has it always been, such shall it always be.

    Remember your first love!

    You too! are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God.


    Christ is risen!
    Alleluia!
     
  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    There is doctrine in that "checkered" genealogy, showing the battle between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent, is there not? I'd say Ruth won her contest with the serpent. Ruth, by making the right decision, became someone who did the will of God. It is proper then that she and other Gentiles of dubious backgrounds were "grafted" into the Tree of Life. Her "past" or "background" became unimportant.

    Those "dubious" women in Jesus' lineage show us that our pasts don't matter -- what we do now and in the future is what matters. God can make the unclean clean when we repent and seek Him. I find that a powerful message about how God wants all people to be in the kingdom -- and gives insight into the "mystery" about Jews and Gentiles -- and a powerful message about the power of forgiveness.

    The woman Jesus called a dog had been a dog, I think. She recognized it and God made her clean. Thus I think she ceased to be a dog. Jesus did not give bread to the dogs by giving her what she asked for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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