Identifying The Eight Kings Of Revelation 17:10

[revturmoil]

You haven't proven a thing other than you have fallen for a very big lie. And you're a pretty good fabricator too!

Your entire response doesn't have one verse that points to Rome. It's basically a copy and paste reply from the zillion anti-Catholic hate sites on the web.

It's blasphemy to attribute that which is God's (His church) to the anti-christ. The prejudism you disply is rampant among Protestants and good luck when you meet Christ and find out the church isn't and wasn't a whore.

 

[teleiosis]

The travesty that is the Roman Catholic Church spans the centuries. Riding on the back of Europe's beast, appointing Kings and pulling them down, full of Machiavellian intrigue, avarice, and even murder - it is the depository of homosexual pedophilia and is headed up presently by a little Nazi.

It has changed the law and the time: it took away the second Commandment and split the tenth into two, and changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

It elevated Mary, the mother of Jesus from her virgin pregnancy, to deny her offspring, and then finally putting her up to godhood and blasphemy against God and allowing all sorts of demons to sup up worship - made idols of her and has her people bow down in front of her.

And always, the affront that the Pope, that nasty bunch that includes the Borgia, has the audacity to say he is the "Vicar" of Christ - which comes from the same word from which we derive vicarious... and goes against the commandment of Jesus not to call anyone "father" but our Father in Heaven.

One more Pope: he'll be bartering souls with the soon-to-be-revealed King of the North only to be surprised that he isn't on equal footing. Mt 7:21-23

 

[veteran]

The travesty that is the Roman Catholic Church spans the centuries. Riding on the back of Europe's beast, appointing Kings and pulling them down, full of Machiavellian intrigue, avarice, and even murder - it is the depository of homosexual pedophilia and is headed up presently by a little Nazi.

It has changed the law and the time: it took away the second Commandment and split the tenth into two, and changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

It elevated Mary, the mother of Jesus from her virgin pregnancy, to deny her offspring, and then finally putting her up to godhood and blasphemy against God and allowing all sorts of demons to sup up worship - made idols of her and has her people bow down in front of her.

And always, the affront that the Pope, that nasty bunch that includes the Borgia, has the audacity to say he is the "Vicar" of Christ - which comes from the same word from which we derive vicarious... and goes against the commandment of Jesus not to call anyone "father" but our Father in Heaven.

One more Pope: he'll be bartering souls with the soon-to-be-revealed King of the North only to be surprised that he isn't on equal footing. Mt 7:21-23

Pointing to a pope in Rome as the coming pseudo-Christ is a deception away from Bible Scripture. Although I don't agree with a position of a "bishop of bishops" in Christ's Church on earth, our Lord's Book of Revelation made it plain enough who the coming "another beast" will be, Satan himself, the dragon. And that dragon is not coming to Rome to play Christ, he's coming to Jerusalem.

 

[Raeneske]

You haven't proven a thing other than you have fallen for a very big lie. And you're a pretty good fabricator too!

Your entire response doesn't have one verse that points to Rome. It's basically a copy and paste reply from the zillion anti-Catholic hate sites on the web.

It's blasphemy to attribute that which is God's (His church) to the anti-christ. The prejudism you disply is rampant among Protestants and good luck when you meet Christ and find out the church isn't and wasn't a whore.

I have given you the reasons for my faith, which is not some huge lie.

Attempting to deny the bloody breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church, The Dark Ages, or even the crusades started by the Roman Church, is like trying to deny the Holocaust - repeatedly. I have not copied and pasted of a zillion "anti-Catholic" "hate" sites. I am not some anti-Catholic. There are Catholics who are Christians as well. However, what we Protestants know as fact, the church sometimes tries to cover up. Even some Catholics know this church has a very bloody history. That history was prophecied, and is recorded in scripture, and in the books of Heaven. I am not attacking you, I am pointing out what scripture says about this church, and what this church has done, and what it will continue to do.

Such a thing would be blasphemy, to attribute God's work to Satan. Protestants may be prejudiced about Catholicism, but the Catholic Church has not given them any reason not to be. However, this should not stop a Protestant from loving, nor sharing the truth. If the truth we share brings anger to your heart, I apologize for making you angry. But I will not apologize for posting the facts. What can be done, is you can research these events yourself, to find out there is much truth in them.

The travesty that is the Roman Catholic Church spans the centuries. Riding on the back of Europe's beast, appointing Kings and pulling them down, full of Machiavellian intrigue, avarice, and even murder - it is the depository of homosexual pedophilia and is headed up presently by a little Nazi.

It has changed the law and the time: it took away the second Commandment and split the tenth into two, and changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

It elevated Mary, the mother of Jesus from her virgin pregnancy, to deny her offspring, and then finally putting her up to godhood and blasphemy against God and allowing all sorts of demons to sup up worship - made idols of her and has her people bow down in front of her.

And always, the affront that the Pope, that nasty bunch that includes the Borgia, has the audacity to say he is the "Vicar" of Christ - which comes from the same word from which we derive vicarious... and goes against the commandment of Jesus not to call anyone "father" but our Father in Heaven.

One more Pope: he'll be bartering souls with the soon-to-be-revealed King of the North only to be surprised that he isn't on equal footing. Mt 7:21-23

I agree with all you said, except the "one more Pope" part. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there.

Pointing to a pope in Rome as the coming pseudo-Christ is a deception away from Bible Scripture. Although I don't agree with a position of a "bishop of bishops" in Christ's Church on earth, our Lord's Book of Revelation made it plain enough who the coming "another beast" will be, Satan himself, the dragon. And that dragon is not coming to Rome to play Christ, he's coming to Jerusalem.

The Pope of Rome is not a coming pseudo-Christ, I have not pointed to that. I have however, revealed the beasts as they are shared in Revelation. We have different beliefs though; I know you expect a he (anti-christ) to come. Even now there are many anti-christs. And even in the apostles day, that mystery of iniquity had already begun to work. We are told in the last days, this power is to be revealed, and lo-and behold it has been. Certainly, not what many people are expecting, and certainly many people would toss it away. But that does not change the fact, that the Roman Church is doing everything prophecy said they would.

 

[veteran]

The Pope of Rome is not a coming pseudo-Christ, I have not pointed to that. I have however, revealed the beasts as they are shared in Revelation. We have different beliefs though; I know you expect a he (anti-christ) to come. Even now there are many anti-christs. And even in the apostles day, that mystery of iniquity had already begun to work. We are told in the last days, this power is to be revealed, and lo-and behold it has been. Certainly, not what many people are expecting, and certainly many people would toss it away. But that does not change the fact, that the Roman Church is doing everything prophecy said they would.

There is a coming pseudo-Christ, and it has nothing to do with Rome. Christ Jesus proclaimed the coming of that pseudo-Christ (Matt.24:24 per the Greek); and He linked the "abomination of desolation" in JERUSALEM from the Book of Daneil with that coming false one; His Apostles brought the warning forward (2 Cor.11; 2 Thess.2; 1 John 2:18; Rev.13). That's why one wanting to point to Rome and a pope is ignorance.

 

[Raeneske]

There is a coming pseudo-Christ, and it has nothing to do with Rome. Christ Jesus proclaimed the coming of that pseudo-Christ (Matt.24:24 per the Greek); and He linked the "abomination of desolation" in JERUSALEM from the Book of Daneil with that coming false one; His Apostles brought the warning forward (2 Cor.11; 2 Thess.2; 1 John 2:18; Rev.13). That's why one wanting to point to Rome and a pope is ignorance.

You keep calling it ignorance, and wrong, and yet I did not say the Pope of Rome was the coming pseudo-Christ.

I agree, there is coming a satanic manisfestation of Christ, yet it shall be Satan himself. We were warned that something like this would happen, yet I would not use Daniel 9 as you do. That specifically is talking about our Lord Jesus.

Anti-christ though, the apostate system, is already here. My other post pointed to that apostate beast system, which exalts itself above God, sitting itself in the temple of God, calling himself God. That is the RCC. The Pope claims the Vicar of Christ, and the power to abrogate laws (change). The RCC came, and there was a great falling away from the true apostolic faith. That is why anyone holding onto true apostolic faith looks like a psycho. They don't agree with all the churches out here, who still hold onto Rome's theology.

And I must warn you, Veteran, that your theology was a Jesuit creation. Almost no Protestant believed in such a thing, it was manufactured during the Protestant Reformation to get the eyes off of Rome. Even Luther himself exclaimed that he believed the Pope was the antichrist. We broke away from the apostate system, and we were to continue to do so.

 

[veteran]

You keep calling it ignorance, and wrong, and yet I did not say the Pope of Rome was the coming pseudo-Christ.

I agree, there is coming a satanic manisfestation of Christ, yet it shall be Satan himself. We were warned that something like this would happen, yet I would not use Daniel 9 as you do. That specifically is talking about our Lord Jesus.

Does that mean you refer to Daniel 11 also? What about Daniel 8:13, and Daniel 12 also? What I do NOT do... is try to play word games with the Dan.9 Scripture like some do while they disregard those other Scripture references to it while trying to say it's about Christ Jesus. Dan.9:27 is not about Christ Jesus; it's about the one who sets up the "abomination of desolation" idol that Jesus referred to!

Anti-christ though, the apostate system, is already here. My other post pointed to that apostate beast system, which exalts itself above God, sitting itself in the temple of God, calling himself God. That is the RCC. The Pope claims the Vicar of Christ, and the power to abrogate laws (change). The RCC came, and there was a great falling away from the true apostolic faith. That is why anyone holding onto true apostolic faith looks like a psycho. They don't agree with all the churches out here, who still hold onto Rome's theology.

Nah..., the final Antichrist/pseudo-Christ is not here yet, never been manifested on earth yet. But the "many antichrists" John mentioned have (noticed that is plural). John pointed to the same pseudo-Christ warning that Christ did in Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22., as did Apostle Paul in 2 Cor.11, and in 2 Thess.2:3-4, and as did John in Rev.13:11 forward. Christ in Matt.24, and Paul in 2 Thess.2 also pointed to that "many antichrists" idea too, with those who say they are Christ in Matt.24:5, and in 2 Thess.2 about the "mystery of iniquity". Those are about Satan's workers on earth.

And I must warn you, Veteran, that your theology was a Jesuit creation. Almost no Protestant believed in such a thing, it was manufactured during the Protestant Reformation to get the eyes off of Rome. Even Luther himself exclaimed that he believed the Pope was the antichrist. We broke away from the apostate system, and we were to continue to do so.

I have a warning for you: If you don't quit listening to false prophet teachings of men's doctrines that are not... written in God's Word, then you will be deceived by the coming events to come upon all those who dwell on the earth. What I teach and follow is God's Word, not Jesuit doctrine, for those are pretty well wrapped up in false Marxist philosophy today. Why do you deny God's Word as written in order to serve men's doctrines?

 

[Raeneske]

<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>Does that mean you refer to Daniel 11 also? What about Daniel 8:13, and Daniel 12 also? What I do NOT do... is try to play word games with the Dan.9 Scripture like some do while they disregard those other Scripture references to it while trying to say it's about Christ Jesus. Dan.9:27 is not about Christ Jesus; it's about the one who sets up the "abomination of desolation" idol that Jesus referred to! </span></span>



<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>Nah..., the final Antichrist/pseudo-Christ is not here yet, never been manifested on earth yet. But the "many antichrists" John mentioned have (noticed that is plural). John pointed to the same pseudo-Christ warning that Christ did in Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22., as did Apostle Paul in 2 Cor.11, and in 2 Thess.2:3-4, and as did John in Rev.13:11 forward. Christ in Matt.24, and Paul in 2 Thess.2 also pointed to that "many antichrists" idea too, with those who say they are Christ in Matt.24:5, and in 2 Thess.2 about the "mystery of iniquity". Those are about Satan's workers on earth.</span></span>


<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'></span></span>

<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>I have a warning for you: If you don't quit listening to false prophet teachings of men's doctrines that are not... written in God's Word, then you will be deceived by the coming events to come upon all those who dwell on the earth. What I teach and follow is God's Word, not Jesuit doctrine, for those are pretty well wrapped up in false Marxist philosophy today. Why do you deny God's Word as written in order to serve men's doctrines?

As for your last part:

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I have posted some of what I understand in Daniel 11 in my previous post, and Daniel 8:13 is a long time period, later explained to Daniel, which started in Daniel 9.

I do not deny when those men spoke of the great mystery of iniquity. What I do not agree with, is your use of the scriptures. Extending 490 years to mean +2000 years, and attributing Christ ending the sacrificial system, to some coming pseudo-Christ.

 

[veteran]

As for your last part:

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I have posted some of what I understand in Daniel 11 in my previous post, and Daniel 8:13 is a long time period, later explained to Daniel, which started in Daniel 9.

I do not deny when those men spoke of the great mystery of iniquity. What I do not agree with, is your use of the scriptures. Extending 490 years to mean +2000 years, and attributing Christ ending the sacrificial system, to some coming pseudo-Christ.

Just when the haughty that speak as if they know should realize when to bow out of a matter, they keep going and stick the rest of their foot in their mouths, as you have done with the above.

The Dan.9:27, Dan.8:13, Dan.11:31, and Dan.12:11 Scriptures are about the same subject of the placing of an idol in the temple in Jerusalem in false worship. They together reveal a false one doing that in Jerusalem for the end of this world.

Christ Jesus is Who gave that future warning of a coming pseudo-Christ (pseudochristos) and placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Matt.24, not me. And if He intended the signs He gave in that chapter for the 70 A.D. ending of sacrifices and existence of a temple in Jerusalem because the 2nd temple was destroyed, then what in the world are Jews in Jerusalem today doing animal sacrifices again on passover, with the plan to build another temple there and continue the Old Covenant sacrificial worship?


http://www.templemountfaithful.org/img/pesch_sacrifice_2004.jpg

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/obj.htm


It's apparent there are a lot of Jews in the world today that MISSED the coming of Messiah and His establishing of a New Covenant, a better Covenant. It's also apparent you have MISSED the fact those unbelieving Jews exist today and are already a long ways into their plans for Jerusalem.

 

[Raeneske]

Just when the haughty that speak as if they know should realize when to bow out of a matter, they keep going and stick the rest of their foot in their mouths, as you have done with the above.

The Dan.9:27, Dan.8:13, Dan.11:31, and Dan.12:11 Scriptures are about the same subject of the placing of an idol in the temple in Jerusalem in false worship. They together reveal a false one doing that in Jerusalem for the end of this world.

Christ Jesus is Who gave that future warning of a coming pseudo-Christ (pseudochristos) and placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Matt.24, not me. And if He intended the signs He gave in that chapter for the 70 A.D. ending of sacrifices and existence of a temple in Jerusalem because the 2nd temple was destroyed, then what in the world are Jews in Jerusalem today doing animal sacrifices again on passover, with the plan to build another temple there and continue the Old Covenant sacrificial worship?


http://www.templemountfaithful.org/img/pesch_sacrifice_2004.jpg

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/obj.htm


It's apparent there are a lot of Jews in the world today that MISSED the coming of Messiah and His establishing of a New Covenant, a better Covenant. It's also apparent you have MISSED the fact those unbelieving Jews exist today and are already a long ways into their plans for Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus fulfills this, for this is what scripture says:

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What is finished? Do temple sacrifices still matter? No. What is the evidence we have, that temple sacrifices have “ceased”?

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

That is one part of this prophecy fulfilled. For the overspreading of abominations, Jerusalem was going to be desolate. Did Jesus ever tell them, their house was to be desolate?

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That is two parts of prophecy fulfilled. Was the Covenant confirmed with many during that last week? Yes.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

That is three parts of that prophecy fulfilled. All three were fulfilled already.

Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. What Israel may do now, does nothing. They have the vail over their face, which is taken away with Jesus Christ. Jesus confirmed this covenant with many during the last week of Daniel. How was it confirmed? By his death, for it is written:

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator

Jesus also allowed Jerusalem to be left desolate, which confirmed by Jesus’s own words, “Your house is left unto you desolate”.

 

[veteran]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus fulfills this, for this is what scripture says:

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What is finished? Do temple sacrifices still matter? No. What is the evidence we have, that temple sacrifices have “ceased”?

Just as I thought. You truly have not even studied those Daniel Scriptures closely for yourself. You're only regurgitating a bunch of men's doctrines you heard or read somewhere, and then gulped it down hook-line-and-sinker.

The Dan.9:27 is NOT about Christ Jesus. It's about the Antichrist, the "little horn", the "vile person" of Daniel 8 & 11...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

That Daniel 9:27 verse is about one that comes and makes a pact in Jerusalem and desolates the sanctuary with an abomination idol.


Dan 8:9-13
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
(KJV)

Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
(KJV)

Dan 11:30-32
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
(KJV)


You've obviously been listening to Orthodox Jews with your idea, because they hate Christ Jesus and naturally would want deceived Christians to think Jesus is Who does all those things above, even with the setting up of an IDOL ABOMINATION in the temple at Jerusalem, like those above Scriptures show.

 

[Raeneske]

<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>Just as I thought. You truly have not even studied those Daniel Scriptures closely for yourself. You're only regurgitating a bunch of men's doctrines you heard or read somewhere, and then gulped it down hook-line-and-sinker.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>The Dan.9:27 is NOT about Christ Jesus. It's about the Antichrist, the "little horn", the "vile person" of Daniel 8 & 11...</span></span>

<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>Dan 9:27
27 And<strong class='bbc'> he shall confirm the covenant </strong>with many for one week: and in the midst of the week <strong class='bbc'>he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate</strong>, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)</span></span>

<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>That Daniel 9:27 verse is about one that comes and makes a pact in Jerusalem and desolates the sanctuary with an abomination idol.</span></span>


<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>Dan 8:9-13
9 And out of one of them came forth <strong class='bbc'>a little horn</strong>, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 <strong class='bbc'>Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.</strong>
12 <strong class='bbc'> And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.</strong>
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and <strong class='bbc'>the transgression of desolation,</strong> to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
(KJV)

Dan 11:23<br />
23 And after <strong class='bbc'>the league made with him he shall work deceitfully</strong>: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.<br
(KJV)<br />
<br />
Dan 11:30-32<br />
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, <strong class='bbc'>and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.</strong><br />
31 And <strong class='bbc'>arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.</strong><br />
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.<br />
(KJV)</span></span><br />
<br />
<br />
<span style='font-size: 14px;'><span style='font-family: verdana, geneva, sans-serif'>You've obviously been listening to Orthodox Jews with your idea, because they hate Christ Jesus and naturally would want deceived Christians to think Jesus is Who does all those things above, even with the setting up of an IDOL ABOMINATION in the temple at Jerusalem, like those above Scriptures show.

Some of those verses are taken out of straight out context.

Daniel 9:27 is about the Lord. And the accusation further proves my point. The Jews didn't believe that which is written in Daniel 9 about the Messiah, not the other way around.

It is about Christ Jesus, but this is not the post for us to drag along. You have seen my explanation now here, and on the other topic, referring to the "he" in Daniel 9:27.

 

[Richard Neal]

There is no temple to be built upon what you call the "Temple Mount" in Jerusalem. With the temple in Jerusalem having been abandoned by Jehovah God as Jesus said in 33 C.E.(Matt 23:38), and later destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., it was "a shadow of heavenly things".(Heb 8:5)

This pictured the great spiritual temple in heaven, for Hebrews 10 speaks of those chosen by Jehovah for the "heavenly calling" (Heb 3;1) and proving loyal till death (Rev 2:10) as having "boldness for the way into the holy place by the blood of Jesus."(Heb 10:19) The "holy place" is not on the earth, "but into heaven itself", where Jesus offered his perfect life blood to God.(Heb 9:24)

At Hebrews 9, the apostle Paul says that "Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation."(Heb 9:11) The "greater and more prefect tent" is the spiritual temple that the physical temple pictured.

The "ten horns" at Revelation 17 are all of the political governments on earth that includes the "seventh king" or Anglo-American world power that "receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast" since 1914 (Rev 17:12), with the "wild beast" initially being the League of Nations but is now the United Nations.(Rev 17:8) Ten as used in the Bible means earthly completeness, as in the case of the "Ten Words" that covered all the laws of Mosaic covenant (Ex 34:28), the ten plagues upon Egypt.

The "ten horns" have given "authority" to the "wild beast" or United Nations by supporting it, both financially and with troops. In fact, it was at the behest of both the United States and Britain that originally the League of Nations came into existence in 1920 and continues to play a major role in the support of the United Nations, the "eighth king", that "was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction."(Rev 17:8)

When the League of Nations went defunct with the outbreak of World War II in September 1939, it went into the "abyss" or deathlike state. However, it came out of the "abyss" in June 1945 as the United Nations. Those "who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly", feeling that this organization can bring true peace and security to the earth, even putting it in place of God's kingdom, and hence becoming ' disgusting' in God's eyes. It the modern day "disgusting thing that causes desolation" (Matt 24:15) and it, along with the "ten horns", will be used by Jehovah God to ' make the harlot devastated and naked ', to forever remove the false religious empire, Babylon the Great.(Rev 17:16, 17)

With Jehovah having "executed judgment upon the great harlot" (Rev 19:2), then the "ten horns" or political governments of the earth, along with the "eighth king", the United Nations, will then "battle with the Lamb" at Armageddon, to be wiped off the face of the earth forever.(Rev 16:14, 16; Dan 2:34, 35)

If there is to be no Jewish Temple built atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, then please, explain to me what Christ meant when, speaking of the end, He said "So when you see standing in the Holy Place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel..." (Matt 24:15)? How do we have a "Holy Place," which all agree that Christ was speaking of the "Holy of Holies" within the Jewish Temple, yet we have no Temple according to you?...There is ONLY one place upon earth the Holy of Holies can be located according to the Torah - atop Mount Moriah in a Jewish Temple...Moreover, what was Ezekiel talking about when - in great detail - he describes a third Jewish Temple atop Mount Moriah (the "Temple Mount") Eze 40, 41?....By the way, "Jehovah" is an 111th century A.D. Latin transliteration of the name of God Yahweh...Why do some insist on using this man-made name for God while they refuse to use the holy name He gave us for Himself? When I see it, it always makes me think that the one using it is trying to identify himself as someone special?...You simply can't say "the ten horns are political governments on earth including the Anglo-Saxon..." without attempting to show it. I spent ten years and and authored a book of over 700 pages to show my interpretations as being accurate. You merely say they are, and expect everyone to take your word for it....

Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist

 

[Saint]

How can Holy of Holies of any physical temple on this earth be holy if the Spirit of God does not live there? Yahweh does live in the Holy of Holies today; it is the temple of the believers body. We are guided by the Spirit of God as He dwells within us and it is Satan's will to replace Yahweh's Spirit within us and dwell there himself. This is the message of Paul in almost of all his teaching; we are either motivated by the Spirit of God or by the flesh.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[Richard Neal]

As far as I am aware of, no one - Christian or otherwise - has ever successfully identified the eight kings of Revelation 17:10. Many have tried, including many of the Early Church Fathers. Because of the dominance of the Imperial Roman Empire in the first century A.D., many of those same Church Fathers tried to find the answer in successive Roman Emperors, usually beginning with the tyrant Nero.

The study of eschatology or end-time prophecy came to an end within the Western Church around the fourth century A.D. when St Augustine determined that it was beyond understanding, and even dangerous. The study of eschatological prophecies was renewed with the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century A.D. The early Reformers, and those that followed them, usually picked up where the Early Church Fathers left off since they were well acquainted with their writings and saw, as a result, various Imperial Roman Emperors as the fulfillment of the prophecy. That there were literally hundreds of Imperial Roman Emperors didn't seem to be enough to deter most interpreters; they simply picked the Emperors who they believed better fit their paradigm, then named those specific emperors as the fulfillment of the prophecy of the eight kings.

Regardless of the sincerity of the various theologians and apologists who have attempted, over the centuries, to interpret the prophecy, sadly, error usually begets error, and by the early nineteenth century A.D. a quasi-Revised Roman Empire had grown out of the attempts to force Imperial Roman Emperors into the fulfillment of the prophecy which is Revelation 17:10. This led directly to other misinterpretations of other eschatological prophecies. The end result, sadly, has been the Church as a whole has been misled and, as a result, "can not see the forrest for the errors." Today the Church, especially in America, looks for an eschatological paradigm where some form of a quasi-Revised Roman Empire (the Fourth Beast of Daniel 7) becomes the vehicle which allows the Antichrist to come to power; usually through the United Nations. Gog, of the land of MaGog is, in many of these same paradigms, is usually the Russians (formerly the atheistic Soviet Union), and in extreme Protestant circles the Roman Catholic Church becomes "Mystery Babylon" of Revelation 17, the heretical religion of the great Beast which is the Kingdom (Empire) of the Antichrist, etc.

Any eschatological paradigm can - and must! - be tested. Just as scientific theories must be tested before they are accepted as truth, eschatological paradigms must also be tested before they are ever accepted as truth. And the way to test any eschatological paradigm is simple - all eschatological prophecies from both the Old and New Testaments must fit into the new paradigm without being forced. For example, one can not attempt to trace the migration of the ancient people known as the Scythians throughout the many centuries, which is virtually impossible since the history of their migrations is incomplete, simply because one believes that the Scythians were the original inhabitants of "The Land of MaGog" and, over the centuries, eventually migrated into Russia. Thus, Russia, of their preconceived beliefs, must be "the Land of Magog."

Moreover, any eschatological paradigm must also solve any of what I like to term 'mysteries' of eschatological prophecies. And again, it must do so in a convincing fashion, not forced as the eight emperors (kings) of the hundreds of Imperial Roman Emperors which where chosen, were chosen simply to be forced into the prophecy which is Revelation 17:10 in order to come up with an answer to the mystery which is the literal fulfillment of the prophecy.

That brings us to the purpose of this article - to correctly answer, for the first time in Church history, the mystery of who the eight kings of Revelation 17:10 are. In my new book, Kingdom of the Antichrist/The Rise of the Beast I go into great detail regarding my new end time paradigm. In doing so the paradigm, as I understand it, easily answers the prophecy which is Revelation 17:10. "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction" Rev. 17:10-11.

The "Five who have fallen" can be none other than the only five Caliphs (kings) the Islamic Empire has ever known since its inception in the sixth century A.D. 1. Muhammad, 2. Abu Bakr, 3. Omar, 4. Umar and 5. Ali.

Because the Islamic Empire, since the death of the last Caliph, Ali, and the ensuring civil war, which is known to history as The War of the Camels, has been a divided empire (Sunni and Shiite), Islam has not known a sixth caliph for nearly fourteen hundred years. Under Islamic tradition, there can not be a sixth caliph until the empire is first reunited.

The sixth Caliph (king), then, is "Gog, of the land of MaGog" (Ezek. 38, 39) who reunites the Islamic Empire (the Fourth Beast/Empire of Daniel 7) in an attempt to annihilate the modern Jewish state of Israel (Ezek. 37).

Gog, and his coalition force (empire) is defeated by God, and Gog dies "on the mountains of Israel" (Ezek. 39:2). This is the "mortal head wound" suffered by the first beast of Revelation 13:3. The "first beast" of Revelation 13 is the Islamic Caliphate, but more on this in a minute. The death of "Gog," "on the mountains of Israel" opens the way for the seventh king (Caliph), known to Scripture as The False Prophet, but known to Islam as al-Mahdi (the Mahdi) of Islamic eschatological anticipations.

al Mahdi of Islamic eschatological anticipations is a forerunner - a sort of John the Baptist to "Jesus, son of Mary" of Islamic eschatological anticipation. (This is not the place to go into a detailed explanation of who, exactly, "Jesus, son of Mary" is in Islamic eschatology, or how they will perceive him. But it is enough here to say that "Jesus, son of Mary" is the Antichrist (Greek anti = imitation of). Thus, as is foretold in the Hadith (Traditions) of Islam, al Mahdi will welcome "Jesus, son of Mary" as Caliph, and even abdicates (must remain for a little while) his power and position to "Jesus, son of Mary." Thus, making "Jesus, son of Mary," who is the Antichrist, the eighth and final king (caliph).

As we alluded to earlier, "The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction" (Rev. 17:11). "He belongs to the seven" simply means that the eighth king (Caliph) belongs to the Caliphate (the seven) which preceded him. This Caliphate, then, is the "beast" "coming out of the sea [of humanity]. He had ten horns [the ten kingdoms of Ezekiel 38 which make up empire/beast Daniel 7] and seven heads {the Caliphate]....Rev 13:1.

Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist/The Rise of the Beast

Are you placing the Mahdi then as the Prophet, to pave the way for 'Jesus, Son of Mary', the Islamic idea of Yeshua as 'Prophet, and not YHVH in a tabernacle of flesh?



Richard said ''Richard', on 24 Sept 2012 - 17:40, said:
True, the Jews will never bow to an Islamic Caliph pretending to be God (Jesus Christ). But that fact along does not mean the Antichrist will not be an Islamic Caliph...The Christians will not bow to any Islamic Caliph pretending to be God either; Does this mean the Antichrist can not be a Islamic Caliph? Of course not...You miss, my friend, the whole point about who and what the Antichrist is...You need to study up on Gnosticism, especially their various heretical christological teachings and beliefs. This is the "spirit of antichrist" which John spoke about as being alive and well within the first-century Church. This is the same hydra-headed heresy the Early Church Fathers railed against for over three centuries...It is the Christology of Gnosticism that empowers the Antichrist - because there are, currently, over 1.5 billion Gnostics tonight awaiting the return of the man "Jesus, son of Mary" from Gnostic teachings and anticipations...When you understand this - when you are able to identify the "spirit of antichrist" that has warred against the Church since the first century A.D., then you will be able to easily identify the Antichrist (imitation christ) and his False Prophet...Read my book, Kingdom of the Antichrist, I spend three chapters on the origins, history and beliefs of Gnosticism."

Richard Neal


Who are all these Gnostics you speak of so plentifully, the majority of the current official Church? Or just Islam...or a mix of everyone who just wants to think that Yeshua was a 'good man' and a wise teacher?


Also, why do the seven mountains have to be kingdoms, since in the Middle east there are so two seven hilled cities...Mecca, and Istanbul?



Richard, you mention only the Caliphs over all of the muslim nations...what about Suleiman of the Ottomans? He conquered the Shias, and that ran with the Ottoman empire for some time.


Q

"Who are all these Gnostics you speak of so plentifully, the majority of the current official Church? Or just Islam...or a mix of everyone who just wants to think that Yeshua was a 'good man' and a wise teacher?"...This is a very good question - one which shows that you, unlike so many others on this forum, actually want to learn something new rather than to just teach when, in fact, few, especially on this forum, have the gift of teaching...The origins, history of, and various teachings and beliefs of Gnosticism is a very complex subject to explain in this type of limited exchange. I would, with all humility, suggest you read my new book Kingdom of the Antichrist because in it I spend many chapters explain just that - the origins of, history of and the various "schools of thought" of various Gnostic sects. I believe my book - at this point in time - contains the best description of Gnosticism written in the last one-hundred years. With that being said, however, many who are better than me will, very soon, begin to teach on Gnosticism as a result of reading my book. So the Church as a whole will soon get re-educated on Gnosticism, the historical archenemy of the Church, and, through that education, will be better able as a collective to correctly interpret end time prophecies...

In short, Gnosticism was a movement that started during the Apostolic era both within the Church as well as from outside the Church. The Jews within the Church, because of their traditions, refused to accept Jesus Christ as Incarnate God. As a result they sought to combine Mosaic Judaism with various early Christian beliefs and practices. We find mention of this in Acts 15. This group - from within the Church - eventually evolved into a "Christian" sect known as the Ebonites.

Outside of the Church Simon Magus, after his rejection by Peter and John, began his own "Gnostic" sect. Simon took various beliefs and practices of Hellenized paganism and mixed in various beliefs and practices of the early Church to come up with his form of "Gnosticism." Because Simon was a Hellenist at heart, he rejected the fact that God could take on the form of a man - since, in Hellenized thought all matter is evil, thus God can not become human (matter). Thus, like the Ebonite Jews within the Church who rejected the Divinity of Christ, Simon and his many followers also found ingenious ways around the divinity of Christ.

Simon had many many followers who went off and, using the same model he came up with, i.e., borrowing various beliefs and practices from paganism and mixing them with various practices and beliefs of the early Church while denying, in ingenious ways, the divinity of Christ. All these "super-apostles" as Paul sarcastically refers to them, used various practices and beliefs of both paganism and primitive Christianity so no two "schools" are exactly the same...By they all taught that if, as an initiate, you had their "secret knowledge" (knowledge = gnosis in Greek) then one would be saved through that "knowledge" (gnosis).

One CAN NOT! understand large segments of Paul's writings, or large segments of John's writings - including the book of Revelation - if one does not possess at least a working understanding of Gnosticism...The writings of the Early Church Fathers are ONLY concerned with the various schools of the hydra-headed heresy known as Gnosticism...Irenaeus' "Against Heresies" is just one of many examples of the Patristic Fathers writing full works against the hydra-headed heresy...Constantine the Great called the first ecumenical council of the Church - at Nicaea in 325 A.D. - in response to the Gnostic heresy of Arian which was ripping the Church, and the Empire, asunder through bloody fights between the followers of Arian and the orthodox. That is why the Nicaea Creed was developed - to ensure that the Gnostic heresy, in all its various forms, was eradicated from within the Church...One could go on and on, but you need to study the subject for yourself. Theodosius the Great would exile all Gnostics from the Roman /Byzantine Empire in 380 A.D.

"Also, why do the seven mountains have to be kingdoms, since in the Middle east there are so two seven hilled cities...Mecca, and Istanbul?" Because Scripture says they are "seven kingdoms:" "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman [Mystery Babylon, the heretical religion of Daniel's 4th beast/empire). They are also seven kings [the Caliphate of Islam). Five have fallen..." Rev 17:9-10.

"Richard, you mention only the Caliphs over all of the muslim nations...what about Suleiman of the Ottomans? He conquered the Shias, and that ran with the Ottoman empire for some time." There have been many Islamic strong men over the centuries who have claimed the title of "Caliph." Suleiman was but one of many...The problem with this is that, according to Islamic tradition, and "tradition" is of the utmost importance to Islam, one can only be Caliph if he rules over a united Islamic world-community (ummi) or empire...Islam had five original caliphs who ruled over a united Islamic Empire - Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Uthman, Othman and Ali ("Five have fallen..." Rev 17:10). All five were assassinated, but when Ali was assassinated in Iran, where he had moved the capitol of the empire, the empire entered into its second civil war. Many believed that a direct descendant of the family of Muhammad should always be caliph (Shiites), and many believed that the caliph should be the best man in the empire (Sunnism). There was no clear winner in this civil war, thus the Islamic Empire has remained a divided empire since the death of its fifth caliph...So there can be no "Caliph" over the Islamic Empire until someone comes along and reunites the two factions...This is what "Gog" does in Ezekiel 38 and 39...The list of "ten kingdoms" that accompany Gog on his invasion of modern Israel lists "Persia" first. Persia, or Iran as it is known today, is home to 98% of the world's Shiites. The other nine kingdoms are all Sunni dominated kingdoms today Thus, because Iran is listed first in the table of ten kings, Scripture is showing that "Gog" has reunited the two sects of Islam into one world-wide Empire, or "ummi" (community) as muslims like to think they will be....

Though Orthodox Jews may have thoughts of restoring the temple in Jerusalem, this has no backing from Jehovah God. Jesus showed that Jehovah clearly "broke ranks" with the Jewish nation, telling them that "your house is abandoned to you !" and then completing this by saying (quoting from Ps 118:26): "For I say to you, You will by no means see me from henceforth until you say, ' Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah's name."(Matt 23:38, 39)

When Jesus quoted from Daniel 9:27, saying to his disciples, that "when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation" (Matt 24:15), he was referring to the Roman armies with their ensigns that would be in the midst of the city and temple.

The Roman legions had their various standards and ensigns bearing images of eagles or some animals; later small statues of the emperor were added. These banners had religious significance, were considered sacred and holy to the point of being worshiped, and were guarded at the cost of human life. It was for such reasons that the Jews violently opposed their presence in Jerusalem.

In 66 C.E., because of the Jewish revolt, the Roman army under the command of General Cestius Gallus, came up against Jerusalem, surrounding "the holy city" (Isa 52:1) which became the center of the Jewish revolt. When this happened in which the Roman army was 'caught sight of ', the Christians recognized it as the "disgusting thing" that Jesus said would be "standing in a holy place" or Jerusalem.

Though Cestius Gallus could have taken the city, even making a thrust right up to the temple walls, undermining it, however, for some unexplained reason, he withdrew. Concerning this withdrawal, Josephus says: “Cestius . . . suddenly recalled his troops, renounced his hopes, without having suffered any reverse, and, contrary to all calculation, retired from the city.” (The Jewish War, II, 540 [xix, 7])

These then followed Jesus words, "then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains", fleeing about 70 miles northeast to Pella, a Gentile city.(Matt 24:16) These had only a matter of days before it would be extremely difficult to leave the city, for only when the Jewish Zealots had left to attack the retreating Roman army was there a way out peacefully.

You continue to view the events of end time prophecy as contained within the orthodox beliefs of Christianity - When the whole point is that two dominate heresies, Judaism and islam, both of which have nothing to do with the Church or orthodox beliefs and anticipations, and both of which have rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ, and both of which have their own, unique, end time prophecies and anticipations, are the ones responsible for persecuting the Church (The Great Tribulation Period) and drive the world to Armageddon...

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus fulfills this, for this is what scripture says:

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What is finished? Do temple sacrifices still matter? No. What is the evidence we have, that temple sacrifices have “ceased”?

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

That is one part of this prophecy fulfilled. For the overspreading of abominations, Jerusalem was going to be desolate. Did Jesus ever tell them, their house was to be desolate?

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That is two parts of prophecy fulfilled. Was the Covenant confirmed with many during that last week? Yes.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

That is three parts of that prophecy fulfilled. All three were fulfilled already.

Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. What Israel may do now, does nothing. They have the vail over their face, which is taken away with Jesus Christ. Jesus confirmed this covenant with many during the last week of Daniel. How was it confirmed? By his death, for it is written:

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator

Jesus also allowed Jerusalem to be left desolate, which confirmed by Jesus’s own words, “Your house is left unto you desolate”.

The Jewish sacrifices continued for another 37 years after the death of Jesus Christ, or until the Romans leveled the Temple atop Mount Moriah...And rabbinic Judaism demands a sacrifice today, which explains why they will rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem...

 

[John_8:32]

Pointing to a pope in Rome as the coming pseudo-Christ is a deception away from Bible Scripture. Although I don't agree with a position of a "bishop of bishops" in Christ's Church on earth, our Lord's Book of Revelation made it plain enough who the coming "another beast" will be, Satan himself, the dragon. And that dragon is not coming to Rome to play Christ, he's coming to Jerusalem.

The False Prophet is not Satan, it is a human under the influence of Satan...

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice that three personages are mentioned here? The Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil. So, the False Prophet, who calls himself the Vicar of Christ...

From Dictionary.com...


Vicar of Christ


noun, Roman Catholic Church .
the pope, with reference to his claim to stand in the place of Jesus Christ and possess His authority in the church.

Hmmm, seems to me that he is a flesh and blood representative of a great false church...

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[Richard Neal]

The False Prophet is not Satan, it is a human under the influence of Satan...

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice that three personages are mentioned here? The Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil. So, the False Prophet, who calls himself the Vicar of Christ...

From Dictionary.com...


Vicar of Christ


noun, Roman Catholic Church .
the pope, with reference to his claim to stand in the place of Jesus Christ and possess His authority in the church.

Hmmm, seems to me that he is a flesh and blood representative of a great false church...

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Why do Christians - and I am assuming you, indeed, believe that you are a Christian, feel they can attack the Bride of Christ with impunity?...I've never understood that? I assume it comes from an ignorance of Church history and tradition?...

I agree with you when you say that the False Prophet is a human under the influence of Satan, and not Satan himself. But I would think this fact would be self-evident to any honest reading of Scripture?...

The "Vicar of Christ" is merely one of many titles of the pope, implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Universal (Catholic) Church of Christ...No where in Catholicism is it taught that the "Vicar of Christ" "stands in place of Jesus Christ" as you falsely claim...That is blasphemous and, I'm quite sure, totally condemned by all the Bishops of Rome throughout the centuries...Study your Church history and you will find where the ancient Church had five Patriarchs who ruled the Catholic Church; at Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria and Rome. Starting in the 8th century A.D. the Islamic hordes annihilated four/fifths of the great ancient Patriarchal Sees of the Universal (Catholic) Church. Leaving only the Patriarchal See at Rome and its Bishop...Now you understand better, and only in brief, why the Roman Bishop calls himself the Vicar of Christ - because he truly is the last great Patriarchal See left to Christendom...

How is the Catholic Church "a great false church" as you claim?...Your claims are remarkably blasphemous and belie your obvious hatred for the Bride of Christ...Hate, of man or Church, should be no where to be found in a believers heart my friend...So you need to check yourself...Matthew 16:19 tells me that there is no salvation outside of the Church - Not my words, but rather the words of Christ and His rule...I would, then, advise you, in all sincerity, to study that verse in great detail before you continue in your false diatribe against the Bride of Christ and find yourself, as a result, being one of the misfortunate souls of Matthew 7:21-23.

The "whore" (Rev17:1), or "Mystery Babylon" is the false or heretical religion of the 4th beast/empire of Daniel's great vision (Dan 7). Scripture, although it doen't specifically name the 4th beast/empire of Daniel's vision, as it does the first three, does, however, provide us with twenty-six unique characteristics of this empire to help us properly identify it. When one applies those twenty-six unique characteristics to the Catholic Church it quickly becomes painfully obvious just how wrong you truly are in your crazy interpretation of prophecy....Try looking at the Islamic Empire as the empire that fulfills Daniel's vision - and the Gnostic heresy you know as Islam as a possible candidate of being "Mystery Babylon" - the heretical false religion upon which Daniel's 4th empire is built...

Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist

 

[Raeneske]

Why do Christians - and I am assuming you, indeed, believe that you are a Christian, feel they can attack the Bride of Christ with impunity?...I've never understood that? I assume it comes from an ignorance of Church history and tradition?...

I agree with you when you say that the False Prophet is a human under the influence of Satan, and not Satan himself. But I would think this fact would be self-evident to any honest reading of Scripture?...

The "Vicar of Christ" is merely one of many titles of the pope, implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Universal (Catholic) Church of Christ...No where in Catholicism is it taught that the "Vicar of Christ" "stands in place of Jesus Christ" as you falsely claim...That is blasphemous and, I'm quite sure, totally condemned by all the Bishops of Rome throughout the centuries...Study your Church history and you will find where the ancient Church had five Patriarchs who ruled the Catholic Church; at Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria and Rome. Starting in the 8th century A.D. the Islamic hordes annihilated four/fifths of the great ancient Patriarchal Sees of the Universal (Catholic) Church. Leaving only the Patriarchal See at Rome and its Bishop...Now you understand better, and only in brief, why the Roman Bishop calls himself the Vicar of Christ - because he truly is the last great Patriarchal See left to Christendom...

How is the Catholic Church "a great false church" as you claim?...Your claims are remarkably blasphemous and belie your obvious hatred for the Bride of Christ...Hate, of man or Church, should be no where to be found in a believers heart my friend...So you need to check yourself...Matthew 16:19 tells me that there is no salvation outside of the Church - Not my words, but rather the words of Christ and His rule...I would, then, advise you, in all sincerity, to study that verse in great detail before you continue in your false diatribe against the Bride of Christ and find yourself, as a result, being one of the misfortunate souls of Matthew 7:21-23.

The "whore" (Rev17:1), or "Mystery Babylon" is the false or heretical religion of the 4th beast/empire of Daniel's great vision (Dan 7). Scripture, although it doen't specifically name the 4th beast/empire of Daniel's vision, as it does the first three, does, however, provide us with twenty-six unique characteristics of this empire to help us properly identify it. When one applies those twenty-six unique characteristics to the Catholic Church it quickly becomes painfully obvious just how wrong you truly are in your crazy interpretation of prophecy....Try looking at the Islamic Empire as the empire that fulfills Daniel's vision - and the Gnostic heresy you know as Islam as a possible candidate of being "Mystery Babylon" - the heretical false religion upon which Daniel's 4th empire is built...

Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist

The Catholic Church is not Christ's church. When Christ said, "Upon this rock", he was not referring to the person. He was referring to the faith Peter professed. "Thou art the Christ" is what a Christian church is built upon. That is what saves people. When you are in danger, and Satan comes to torment you, what is your faith in, the stable rock? That Christ is the Son of God. That is the chief stone of the Christian faith, which most the world rejects. Not Peter, but Christ.

 

[veteran]

Some of those verses are taken out of straight out context.

Daniel 9:27 is about the Lord. And the accusation further proves my point. The Jews didn't believe that which is written in Daniel 9 about the Messiah, not the other way around.

It is about Christ Jesus, but this is not the post for us to drag along. You have seen my explanation now here, and on the other topic, referring to the "he" in Daniel 9:27.

YOU'RE the one taking the Dan.9:27 outside it's context in the Book of Daniel by implying it's about Christ Jesus.

Those saying the Dan.9:27 verse is about Christ are on a false agenda, because those Dan.8 and 11 events show it's impossible for those things to be done by Christ. It's pretty close to blasphemy to say that's Christ who places that abomination of desolation.

Moreover, it's gross ignorance to say one of Dan.9:27 is Christ, since Jesus well warned of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel.

The False Prophet is not Satan, it is a human under the influence of Satan...

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice that three personages are mentioned here? The Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil. So, the False Prophet, who calls himself the Vicar of Christ...

There is no... mention of a False Prophet in Revelation 13. It's only in Rev.16, 19, & 20.

Like I've said many times to many brethren here on this forum, you're listening to a doctrine of men with the idea of that "false prophet" being some flesh born man.

WHEN is God's Judgment of flesh men into the "lake of fire"?

SHOW me in God's Word where any flesh born man is already judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire".

 

[Richard Neal]

How can Holy of Holies of any physical temple on this earth be holy if the Spirit of God does not live there? Yahweh does live in the Holy of Holies today; it is the temple of the believers body. We are guided by the Spirit of God as He dwells within us and it is Satan's will to replace Yahweh's Spirit within us and dwell there himself. This is the message of Paul in almost of all his teaching; we are either motivated by the Spirit of God or by the flesh.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

I'm sorry Bob, but what you say is diametrically opposed to what our Lord taught: "So when you see standing in the holy place [the Holy of Holies] the abomination that causes desolation spoken of through Daniel the prophet..." (Matt 24:15)...I've said this before, and now I'll say it again; 'Some of you guys continue to look at eschatological events and characters through the eyes of a Christian, as if no other religions or beliefs are involved...The whole point of the War of Gog and Magog, Daniel's 4th kingdom, the 3rd Temple being built, the Great Tribulation Period, the False Prophet, the Antichrist, etc is that they all arise out of heresy - NOT!!!! out of the orthodox Church...It is the culmination of 2000 years of spiritual warfare. Satan, and his church (Islam), man and his church (Rabbinic Judaism) and the true Church of Jesus Christ...Stop looking at prophecy through the prism of Christianity only, or you will never see the big picture...Sure, no Christian wants or needs a 3rd Temple, but the Jew does because he is a heretic. The muslim has a presence atop the Temple Mount tonight because he is a heretic...