Richard Neal said:
Why "pagan Rome?' How can you prove that from Scripture?...Why not the Soviet Empire, or Napoleon's France, or the Islamic Empire - or even American or the European Union?...What makes it the Roman Empire - an empire which went extinct over 1500 years ago? Or by the "Roman Empire" you are, instead, referring to the Catholic Church or a quai-revised Roman Empire in the form of the European Union?...In other words, you just can't simply claim Scripture is speaking about "the Roman Empire" - because you are only regurgitating something someone else has written - as if it is fact, but rather, you must prove your hypothesis from Scripture. So please do so because I, like many others, would love to see it so that we too can believe it...
Richard Neal - author
Kingdom of the Antichrist
Daniel 8:7-8 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
Alexander the Great came (the he goat, part of Grecia), and smote the ram (Media and Persia), and he waxed stronger and stronger. However:
Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Daniel 11:2-4 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
At the height of his power, he died, and his kingdom was split into 4 parts, not according to his posterity (no offspring). After Grecia is when this 4th power is to arise.
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Daniel 8:9-11 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Daniel 8:23-24 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Rome arose out of Grecian territory. As Rome grew and Grecia fell. Rome persecuted Christians like mad (Example: Nero). Rome though, like all kingdoms, grew and fell, and broke. At some point, they had 10 kingdoms, and in the midst of these ten kingdoms, another power arose. This same power was still Roman, but it was not Pagan Rome, rather it is what we would call, "Papal Rome" as they still hold the name "Rome". This power never stopped persecuting Christians. Papal Rome then becomes the 5th Beast. And yes, they are the 5th Beast, because there is a definite prophecied time of their rule.
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
That does not match up with:
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
And that must be stated, because it seems like people get those two powers mixed up. One small reason, the timing does not match up (one hour, and 3/2 prophetic years). Pagan Rome broke up, and when they had 10 pieces, a little power arose, known as Papal Rome, and subdued 3 of those 10 pieces. Then Pagan Rome reigned for their prophecied time (a time, times, dividing of a time), an exact time as foretold by God, not "an hour" which just means a short time, in which the later power rules. After Christian persecution, Papal Rome was put out of commission. They ceased to be a church and state. That marks their fall, being the 5th King in Revelation.
Revelation 17:6,8 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
That beast is called "was" and "is not" and "yet is". That is 3 beast times, differences, for the same beast. Papal Rome is the power which was prophecied to be drunk with the blood of the Saints and Martrys. Looking at the Protestant Reformation, if we have seen and studied it, we know how bloody the breakaway was from this church. So, Papal Rome was the 5th Beast, the "was" phase. It became "is not" when they lost their power, when they were no longer church and state, becoming a 6th Beast. They became a new power, simply only a state. However, this power is also prophecied to be the "yet is" as well. In 1929, when Mussolini brought the pact, which once again made Rome a Church and state, entering a new beast as well, yet the same old beast. This would be the 7th Beast.
However we see that that same beast even is the 8th Beast, which goes into perdition. That 8th Beast, which has not yet come, will reign with other kingdoms who shall have power with Rome.
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
I have only recently heard of the "Club of Rome", but I have not researched much on that, but it also is not much of a shock. Prophecy is accurate. Always has been, always will be. Also
Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rome is the only church (woman) that is also a great city (Vatican city) which reigns over the kings of the earth (being a church and state). And the fact that the Pope has been calling for a new world order, or even the shredding of constitutions is no surprise. The earthly kings bend their knee to the Roman Church, and that isn't s surprise either. They are going to give their power to Rome.
Last part:
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
It was prophecied it would be a diverse power from the rest. Though Rome has technically "fallen" they still are around, and in mighty power as well. Not only that, but they were the only mighty power to be both a Church and State, that is, A woman riding a beast.
And that is just a small part of the reason I believe the 4th Beast is Pagan Rome. I went a little further, but that's okay.