If all of the Church is the Bride of Christ who are the guests?

[michaelvpardo]

This is what I look for...Ones with the awareness of Him being with us ! When we read our Bibles, He is there with us and in us ( if we have the spirit of God residing in us ), when we go out, He goes with us, when we come in again He is still there with us....Always ! People don't HAVE to see Him, but to have a relationship one must be aware.........

Just wanted to add that some folks get saved while reading scripture for the first time as God is present everywhere (omnipresent) and is able to give a person faith to believe without "saying a prayer of salvation." Yet, he has called us to confess Him as Lord before men and to be a part of His testimony through the working of His Spirit who works in us and through us. Amen.

 

[amadeus]

Who we know is far more important than what we know when it comes to salvation. However, Christ prayed for His Apostles and for us when He asked the Father to sanctify us by His word (John 17:17). When the Lord gives us His Spirit to quicken our own with new life, we still have the mind of the old life and with it the old nature according to the flesh. Jesus has to change our way of thinking, to renew our minds, and He uses His word as taught by His Spirit to do so.
I don't believe that anyone is perfected in this life, but the Spirit of our Lord makes us complete. He gives us application of His word to our lives and that is what scripture calls wisdom. I can tell that you have wisdom from the things that you post. The more that we learn, the more we realize how little we really know, but God knows everything.

Give God all of the glory, my friend!

 

[amadeus]

Thanks, I understand what you're saying. I just tend to assume with some people that their thinking is carnal or their statements abusive because of spiritual immaturity. I was as guilty of being judgmental as the next person when I was young. It takes time to change the way a person thinks. Some even have to learn how to think for themselves, but God is able to make the simple wise. I won't call myself wise but I know that I was born as simple as can be.

I learned the hard way not to be too quick to say what is in my mind to someone I have just met. Sometimes in my mind I have already categorized them with so many who seem so very very carnal in most respects. Then, boom, I open my mouth to let on in even a small measure what I am thinking and the Holy Ghost speaks loud and clear from them to me.

Help me dear Lord!

 

[pia]

statements abusive because of spiritual immaturity

Hi...Yes I do see what you are saying, and you may well be right, but as I found out, some people do nothing but try to tear people down, on this forum, and some say they have been at it for more than a decade ??? To me that seems more like they are deliberately resisting The Spirit, but I don't know that of course..
Yeah we too, at the first little fellowship I was ever with, were kind of taught to be judgemental against anyone who didn't believe the way our pastor did...Needless to say I did not stay there all that long, and pastor kept telling us, that we were the ONLY Christians who had the truth...a mantra I heard other places also.......When they do that I just get out, as they are happy where they are, they have no desire to listen to The Lord, they all seem to think they alone have the answers lol.
Well the Bible does say that God will use the base and unimportant in the world to confound those who are wise in their own eyes...I was shown that recently in the Bible, made me giggle, because of all the scholars who think they have it all 'figured' out..
Thanks for your response Blessings in Him

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hi...Yes I do see what you are saying, and you may well be right, but as I found out, some people do nothing but try to tear people down, on this forum, and some say they have been at it for more than a decade ???

It's easy to destroy and tear down, quite a bit more difficult to create or build up. Our speech is supposed to be wholesome and edifying, but who can tame their tongue? It took me a while to figure out, but its frequently best to step back and think about what someone has said or posted to offend you, before firing back a response. The Lord says to be slow to anger, and at least sometimes an offense is a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Problem is some people just don't care about offending others that they don't know, while others are completely unaware when they've offended anyone. All in all, people are far more gracious here than on social media sites with current events, where civil discourse is a forgotten art.

 

[pia]

It's easy to destroy and tear down, quite a bit more difficult to create or build up. Our speech is supposed to be wholesome and edifying, but who can tame their tongue? It took me a while to figure out, but its frequently best to step back and think about what someone has said or posted to offend you, before firing back a response. The Lord says to be slow to anger, and at least sometimes an offense is a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Problem is some people just don't care about offending others that they don't know, while others are completely unaware when they've offended anyone. All in all, people are far more gracious here than on social media sites with current events, where civil discourse is a forgotten art.

For sure ! I do actually step away quite often and pray about things, and then sometimes various verses come to my remembrance as well as memories, which can put things in perspective, but like everyone else, I am a floored human being trying to have fellowship with other floored human beings, and it can get tricky at times, other times it can be very rewarding and even bring glory to our God, which I wish there was a lot more of.....
Thanks for writing....Bless you

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks, I understand what you're saying. I just tend to assume with some people that their thinking is carnal or their statements abusive because of spiritual immaturity. I was as guilty of being judgmental as the next person when I was young. It takes time to change the way a person thinks. Some even have to learn how to think for themselves, but God is able to make the simple wise. I won't call myself wise but I know that I was born as simple as can be.

In this being simple is the best place to be.

 

[Jun2u]

But are we not also told that man was created a little lower than then angels ? Thus, this NEW Creation is not !

I think what you have in mind is Hebrews 2:6-9 and I’m pretty sure we’ll have different interpretations. So when you’re sure of your understanding to these verses, let me know and I’ll be happy to discuss the matter with you.

I don’t understand what you mean by “New Creation.” Please elaborate.

To God Be The Glory

 

[pia]

Thank you, I found that saying where you said...Made me think....There are angels in Heaven with God, it says , but mankind was unable to, until Jesus The Son of Man ( mankind ), fulfilled all and was able to take a seat next to God...
So it stands to reason that those angels with God, were of a higher 'nature' than man ( whom God KNEW would fall )...Of course AFTER Jesus, this is not so....It was a temporary measure.
The New Creation is what Jesus gives us....The ability, like He got , to receive a part of God, through His Holy Spirit to come into our spirit, make it 'alive to God' and seal it....He is called our 'down payment'...
The most wonderful thing though, is that this New Creation, is one made 'higher' than the first man Adam.....Now we can have the Spirit of God within us, we can have fellowship with our Father.
Anyone who receives this becomes a different kind of human in a way......One with God, as opposed to those with a 'dead to God' spirit within them...
It is not an easy thing to write in a few sentences, but at least you will have a place to start....See 2Cor 5:17.."Therefore , if anyone is In Christ, he is a NEW Creation. Old things have passed away. Behold ALL things are become new."
But there are many other passages which go together with this...

 

[Helen]

@amadeus ...I am sorry...I never did even SEE this thread...
It is bedtime now..but I will read it tomorrow when I get home from work..late afternoon.
I will be interested to read the posts here compared with the posts in the other thread...
..must get to bed now though.
blessings...Helen

 

[Helen]

@amadeus ....Well I proved myself a liar...I just found a post I wrote on page two of this thread...
I must have just forgotten it.
But will enjoy re-reading all this thread tomorrow PM.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I did double check what I learned a while ago...church can be or is us...individually, our body, our temple.
Oddly, the DJ on the Christian Radio I listen to brought it up that we were the church.
(Makes me wonder if that may have been the first time I heard that different take.)

1 Cor 1 and 2 Cor 1 speak on this, I found ref online...and Galations. In other words,
I got it from Christians that have studied this.
But, can mean an assembly...also, a building.
It's too controversial for me touch.
I could never debate this kind of stuff...I just wondered where did I get the 'soul is the bride'...
of course, nuns are wed to Christ, in their belief system.

 

[Helen]

Possibly what we are looking for, [or should be], is a Bride that is taken out of the Church. Those left could then be properly invited guests.
So then what would be the final result for the guest? Salvation? What would be the final result for the Bride? Hmmm?

I have never found too many to agree with me on this. So I am very glad to agree with you here.
To me, in reading through scripture old and new, seeing patterns and symbols etc...it is obvious that not all are the Bride.
But, most seem to have grabbed on to the idea that Jesus did everything 'for us' and we just all, in one happy lump...comfortably coast into heaven on the back of Jesus , as it were.
Most do not want to 'see' that not all are equal.
I like your concept of the others, who do not make it into the Bride, as the guests. ( spectators not full partakers)

Just being virgin is not enough, is it? King Ahasuerus in seeking a new queen, brought together many virgins from all over his realm, but only one was chosen ...Esther.

Another excellent post....just part of it quoted here.

I agree ..the Bride is not the Body of Christ, but is out of the Body of Christ.
The body of Christ are the saved, but not all The Bride.

In your post number #50 you bring out what I had not seen before. Those who did not have on the correct apparel. Could this be that they did not 'enter in' wearing the correct robes of praise and thanksgiving.
Psalm 100 "Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name." They try another way, their way. ( their own works)

Which leaves us the question - What qualifies us for Bridehood?
In Rev 19 it says "“Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.”

I will be interested to hear what you see here as our part in making ourselves ready. We know that Paul saw "the Prize of the High Calling...." and ran toward it, lest he 'missed the mark'.
We know he pushed toward what he saw. How do we reach forward and run also toward that same goal...full union with Christ? The prize of Himself?

Just coasting along believing in the finished work WILL indeed get us there...but there is more...there is something to be lost if we drop our guard and just coast in..
....we make ourself ready...as Esther did...

 

[amadeus]

I did double check what I learned a while ago...church can be or is us...individually, our body, our temple.
Oddly, the DJ on the Christian Radio I listen to brought it up that we were the church.
(Makes me wonder if that may have been the first time I heard that different take.)

1 Cor 1 and 2 Cor 1 speak on this, I found ref online...and Galations. In other words,
I got it from Christians that have studied this.
But, can mean an assembly...also, a building.
It's too controversial for me touch.
I could never debate this kind of stuff...I just wondered where did I get the 'soul is the bride'...
of course, nuns are wed to Christ, in their belief system.

It is confusing because men changed what they meant by "church" [or the word they used for church in their own language] over time. I would not try to go into the meanings and the history, but it did originally in scripture as I understand it speak of a group of believers: people. Originally there were no buildings called churches in which people came together to worship God, study the scriptures and to pray. They met where they could which often was in someone's home. Down the line when it was convenient or useful or for whatever reason people built special buildings where the church [the people] could meet. Who knows exactly when the overlapping of meanings or misunderstanding of meanings or the changing from one person's language to another's confused the issue. I don't believe the Bible ever uses the word, church, [in any translation or version], to mean a building. That is a man thing and it does at times result in confusion or misunderstandings between people.

 

[amadeus]

I have never found too many to agree with me on this. So I am very glad to agree with you here.
To me, in reading through scripture old and new, seeing patterns and symbols etc...it is obvious that not all are the Bride.
But, most seem to have grabbed on to the idea that Jesus did everything 'for us' and we just all, in one happy lump...comfortably coast into heaven on the back of Jesus , as it were.
Most do not want to 'see' that not all are equal.
I like your concept of the others, who do not make it into the Bride, as the guests. ( spectators not full partakers)

We all I believe are equal in the eyes of God in our opportunity to please Him. What we do with all that He has given us is where He will make the distinctions between us. No one else could do it fairly. Remember Luke 12:48 [...much is given... much is required...]

I agree ..the Bride is not the Body of Christ, but is out of the Body of Christ.
The body of Christ are the saved, but not all The Bride.

Yes, and not everyone sitting on a church pew regularly is likely to be a part of even the Body of Christ.

In your post number #50 you bring out what I had not seen before. Those who did not have on the correct apparel. Could this be that they did not 'enter in' wearing the correct robes of praise and thanksgiving.
Psalm 100 "Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name." They try another way, their way. ( their own works)

Yes!
The whole thing is contained throughout the scriptures and I do not even pretend to understand it all.

Which leaves us the question - What qualifies us for Bridehood?
In Rev 19 it says "“Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.”

I do look to the Song of Solomon which I read as mostly a conversation between the Bride and the Bridegroom. [I have actually marked out who the speaker is in the margins of my Bible. Sometimes a third party may be speaking.] Chapter 6 is especially helpful if you can understand it. For example:

"There are sixty queens, and eighty concubines, and virgins without number.
But My dove, My undefiled is one alone. She is the only one of her mother. She is the choice of her who bore her. The daughters saw her and blessed her; the queens and the concubines saw her, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

The undefiled one alone, of course, is the Bride but who is her mother and who are the queens and concubines and virgins without number? Are all of them different part of the Body of Christ?

I will be interested to hear what you see here as our part in making ourselves ready. We know that Paul saw "the Prize of the High Calling...." and ran toward it, lest he 'missed the mark'.
We know he pushed toward what he saw. How do we reach forward and run also toward that same goal...full union with Christ? The prize of Himself?

Just coasting along believing in the finished work WILL indeed get us there...but there is more...there is something to be lost if we drop our guard and just coast in..
....we make ourself ready...as Esther did...

Everyone needs to be striving to make the Bride, even if they never make it that high. But how do you strive for the highest position?

One thing I believe any person must do is learn to start always at the bottom even if he has already been serving God for many years. It is from the bottom that God will elevate us if we are to be elevated:

"When you are invited by anyone to a wedding, do not recline in the chief seat, lest a more honorable man than you may be invited by him.
And he who invited you and him shall come and say to you, Give place to this man; and then you begin with shame to take the last place.
But when you are invited, go and recline in the lowest place, so that when he who invited you comes, he may say to you, Friend, go up higher. Then glory shall be to you before those reclining with you.
For whoever exalts himself shall be abased, and he who humbles himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

 

[Helen]

Everyone needs to be striving to make the Bride, even if they never make it that high. But how do you strive for the highest position?

One thing I believe any person must do is learn to start always at the bottom even if he has already been serving God for many years. It is from the bottom that God will elevate us if we are to be elevated:

There is so much in the post... but I only quoted a small part.

Well said indeed...Paul pressed in with everything he had...to "make his calling and election sure.."
But we also see that while encouraging others to also run..he was never a proud man...and knew constantly that it was all God working through him...not himself that was achieving anything.
When we are always conscious that it God that is working in us to do of His good pleasure...we know that He began the good work in us, and He will complete it as we stay in His Spirit as we so run..
That is how we strive for what He has called us to...for the highest and the best...( Himself) yet knowing we have no merit of ourself at all.

 

[tabletalk]

It is confusing because men changed what they meant by "church" [or the word they used for church in their own language] over time. I would not try to go into the meanings and the history, but it did originally in scripture as I understand it speak of a group of believers: people. Originally there were no buildings called churches in which people came together to worship God, study the scriptures and to pray. They met where they could which often was in someone's home. Down the line when it was convenient or useful or for whatever reason people built special buildings where the church [the people] could meet. Who knows exactly when the overlapping of meanings or misunderstanding of meanings or the changing from one person's language to another's confused the issue. I don't believe the Bible ever uses the word, church, [in any translation or version], to mean a building. That is a man thing and it does at times result in confusion or misunderstandings between people.

The book of Acts uses the word, church, to mean a building with Christians meeting in it.
Acts 15:41
And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 16:5
So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and increased in number daily.
Acts 13:1
Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 14:23
So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Good research, tabletalk.

 

[Helen]

For whoever exalts himself shall be abased, and he who humbles himself shall be exalted."

True John ..we can never exalt ourselves, even when in the flesh we or some do "give it a try"....it never fools anyone!! There is an odour that goes with an exalted spirit...and it aint a good one.
...that said we do not ever "settle there"and just leave everything to the Lord. As shown, He checks our garments, to see if what we are covered with has His brand mark or our own.

Another point...I believe a person must first have a 'vision/understanding' of Bride-hood...( as did Paul) No man sets out on a journey with no idea where he is ending! ( except then, Abraham will come to mind he did )
Prov 29:18 "Where there is no vision, the people perish..."

I do remember decades ago exactly where I was standing in a meeting when God took a few lines of a message being preached and I heard the 'inner-words' "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." ( obviously from Rev. 4)
That was the first time God showed me that He had not called any of us to just be pew sitters...and I started seriously reading and studying God's word for myself. We have to "see it"...and live with an open, yielded, teachable heart.
And covered with the garment of praise...He is indeed an inspector of garments.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice, imo

It is from the bottom that God will elevate us if we are to be elevated:

amen to that. Volunteer to clean the toilets, for free, and you will have the keys to the place in a month or so, anywhere you go, regardless of whether there are any believers there or not lol