If all of the Church is the Bride of Christ who are the guests?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Then again what is the stone cut out of the mountain without hands to smash the feet of mixed iron and clay?

Jesus is the Rock ..and made without hands.
But I actually believe it is Jesus the Head and the Overcomers from Chap 3 of the Revelation. The mature sons out of each of the seven Churches.
 

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
2,698
794
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is the mystery of marriage:

Ephesians 5:31-32
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Both have become one:

Ephesians 2:11-18
"Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father
."



but I notice you leave out:


Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

hence this is the beginning of that text in Eph 5 and the end of that text in Eph 5

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


hence the submissive relationship using one to explain the other no bride here either and its not the only place where Paul speaks of the body of Christ but note he never ever says bride in scriptures and if he meant to explain the relationship as bride just how may times do you think Paul would have wrote it? though he doesn't refer to the body of Christ every time, he uses the word "body" 72 time and "bride" 0 nada zilch never, in scripture.


and Eph 2 there is no mention of bride. if the church is the bride why doesn't Paul just say so? he wasn't afraid to say that the church is the body of Christ, and if it was to be understood as bride I am sure there are proper Greek and or Hebrew words that mean bride explicitly, that he could have used.


see you are trying to use scripture to justify the theology, and the truth need no justification read what rev. says the bride is. one doesn't have to explain that, or justify it.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,761
5,607
113
www.CheeseburgersWithGod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
but I notice you leave out:


Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

hence this is the beginning of that text in Eph 5 and the end of that text in Eph 5

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


hence the submissive relationship using one to explain the other no bride here either and its not the only place where Paul speaks of the body of Christ but note he never ever says bride in scriptures and if he meant to explain the relationship as bride just how may times do you think Paul would have wrote it? though he doesn't refer to the body of Christ every time, he uses the word "body" 72 time and "bride" 0 nada zilch never, in scripture.


and Eph 2 there is no mention of bride. if the church is the bride why doesn't Paul just say so? he wasn't afraid to say that the church is the body of Christ, and if it was to be understood as bride I am sure there are proper Greek and or Hebrew words that mean bride explicitly, that he could have used.


see you are trying to use scripture to justify the theology, and the truth need no justification read what rev. says the bride is. one doesn't have to explain that, or justify it.
Well, seeing that you are making a point of specifying the term "bride", as if a wife had never been a bride - then surely, you only refer to the marriage and not to the wedding. But you make a game of what Paul clearly says is a mystery. Yet having clearly explained it, it is no longer a game or a puzzle that we should qualify by our imposing times and technicalities about whether a wife is a bride or just a wife. If you have some other point to make, make it. Otherwise there is no profit in spitting hairs, as if the honeymoon were over and the wife has somehow been demoted by a technicality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,509
31,688
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is the Rock ..and made without hands.
But I actually believe it is Jesus the Head and the Overcomers from Chap 3 of the Revelation. The mature sons out of each of the seven Churches.
Amen on the Rock! As for the overcomers, they would likely be the members of the Bride. Not everyone saved makes the Bride.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
According to the language of Daniel 12:1, without a doubt, Michael is indeed the Lord Jesus. No where in the Bible declares that an angel can be a great prince over the children of the people except Jesus.

Angels are ministering spirits to protect the children of God, and cannot be above man.

To God Be The Glory
the word translated as prince also means elder. Michael is a created being, Jesus existed before His birth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen and pia

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
where does it say that the church is the bride?

read rev 21:9 on, that is what the scriptures say is the bride.

when Jesus came into the world just what do you think was united again? the man Adam was the place for God's Presence in the earth. that was "lost" because man became corrupted, and in sin. when the Presence of God, hence Son of God (that Adam was to be) came into the world Heaven and earth becomes united. and that will become permanent, hence the courtship and the marriage. Jerusalem is the bride and all who have the proper garment may enter. that would be the born again now the church for temporary purposes.
FYI, if you type the whole book name for a passage instead of an abbreviation, the site can add links for instant verification by readers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pisteuo

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, those verses also describe the Bride, the Lamb's wife, which has come out of the Church without blemish, without spot or wrinkle[I Peter 1:19, Eph 5:27].

Then again what is the stone cut out of the mountain without hands to smash the feet of mixed iron and clay?

So many questions and the answers are? I really don't have them all. I believe I see but still it is as through a glass darkly. I am still unable to connect all of the dots, but I am seeing more of the dots. Should we not eventually be able to see what God told Moses no man could see and live?

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
If you understood all of scripture, you probably wouldn't want to read it again, but God the Holy Spirit fellowships with us when we read His word. He spends time with us teaching us, showing us our Lord in the pages of scripture and instructing us in righteousness. I can never understand when a Christian has no interest in scripture.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,509
31,688
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you understood all of scripture, you probably wouldn't want to read it again, but God the Holy Spirit fellowships with us when we read His word. He spends time with us teaching us, showing us our Lord in the pages of scripture and instructing us in righteousness. I can never understand when a Christian has no interest in scripture.
Yes, on the one hand I don't understand it all, but on the other hand I am daily drawn back to reading it more and more. The Holy Spirit is giving me answers, but often they are not answers to questions I have presently been seeking. I have to just presume as always that God knows what He is doing.
 

Jun2u

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2014
1,083
362
83
75
Southern CA.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I won't disagree, but I haven't really looked into it that much myself nor has the Lord given me clarity on it. Would it relate in someway to the topic question?

I'm sorry, I responded to your post #79

To God Be The Glory
 

pia

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2009
2,003
1,678
113
70
West Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Angels are ministering spirits to protect the children of God, and cannot be above man
But are we not also told that man was created a little lower than then angels ? Thus, this NEW Creation is not !
 

pia

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2009
2,003
1,678
113
70
West Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
If you understood all of scripture, you probably wouldn't want to read it again, but God the Holy Spirit fellowships with us when we read His word. He spends time with us teaching us, showing us our Lord in the pages of scripture and instructing us in righteousness. I can never understand when a Christian has no interest in scripture.
This is what I look for...Ones with the awareness of Him being with us ! When we read our Bibles, He is there with us and in us ( if we have the spirit of God residing in us ), when we go out, He goes with us, when we come in again He is still there with us....Always ! People don't HAVE to see Him, but to have a relationship one must be aware.........
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, on the one hand I don't understand it all, but on the other hand I am daily drawn back to reading it more and more. The Holy Spirit is giving me answers, but often they are not answers to questions I have presently been seeking. I have to just presume as always that God knows what He is doing.
I think that the Lord's teaching is practical with regard to our lives. I preached (rather poorly) in a few nursing homes about a decade ago, preaching through the gospel according to Matthew. I often found that the Pastor in my church or teachers on the radio were making the same points in their messages, but from different texts. The Lord often teaches His body in unison to prepare them for things to come. In personal study, I find that the Lord teaches me things I need to know now or for the day in order to deal with someone else's issues or problems of my own. Remember how Jesus told His disciples before His passion that He had more to tell them, but that they weren't yet able to bare it? God is kind to us in keeping some things from us and there are things we can't accept without some degree of spiritual maturity.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, on the one hand I don't understand it all, but on the other hand I am daily drawn back to reading it more and more. The Holy Spirit is giving me answers, but often they are not answers to questions I have presently been seeking. I have to just presume as always that God knows what He is doing.
Who we know is far more important than what we know when it comes to salvation. However, Christ prayed for His Apostles and for us when He asked the Father to sanctify us by His word (John 17:17). When the Lord gives us His Spirit to quicken our own with new life, we still have the mind of the old life and with it the old nature according to the flesh. Jesus has to change our way of thinking, to renew our minds, and He uses His word as taught by His Spirit to do so.
I don't believe that anyone is perfected in this life, but the Spirit of our Lord makes us complete. He gives us application of His word to our lives and that is what scripture calls wisdom. I can tell that you have wisdom from the things that you post. The more that we learn, the more we realize how little we really know, but God knows everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia and Helen

Jun2u

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2014
1,083
362
83
75
Southern CA.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
the word translated as prince also means elder. Michael is a created being, Jesus existed before His birth.


Let us test your conclusion about Michael as a created being.

If Michael is an angel. I can see your point he is a created being, but Michael can never and will never be an angel or a created being. The proof that he’s not is overwhelming. Normally, the word princes and kings are interchangeable.

There are three kings/princes in the Trinity:

1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit

Daniel 10:13 reads:

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days, but, lo , Michael one of the chief princes, came to help me:...”

In this context, “chief” can be translated: as the “head,” or, the “number one,” or, “one of.” Michael is either the head, the number one, or one of the Trinity.

Still not convince? Did you know names in the Bible have meanings? For instance:

1 Mi-cha-el means = assuredly is God.
2 Elo-him means = God
3 Im-manu-el means = God with us

Note the underlined letters “el” denotes God in Hebrew.

There are many more names specially in the Old Testament, like Ezekiel and Joel...etc., but the examples above will suffice.

I pray this helped.

To God Be The Glory
 

pia

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2009
2,003
1,678
113
70
West Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
more that we learn, the more we realize how little we really know, but God knows everything.
A big AMEN to that Brother lol..... Another little clue when looking for believers....... Thankfully we don't have to sneakily try to make a little fish in the sand to identify ourselves these days, but it seems to be as difficult finding them as if they are hiding? Perhaps God is hiding them all In Him until one day, He suddenly does something which reveals them...I am certain you follow what I mean, so I do look for little hints here and there which indicates whether or not they have the Holy Spirit. Not saying that I can be assured of 100% success as it's harder when not seeing a persons face and eyes.
I enjoy your contributions a lot.....God bless you Pia
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let us test your conclusion about Michael as a created being.

If Michael is an angel. I can see your point he is a created being, but Michael can never and will never be an angel or a created being. The proof that he’s not is overwhelming. Normally, the word princes and kings are interchangeable.

There are three kings/princes in the Trinity:

1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit

Daniel 10:13 reads:

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days, but, lo , Michael one of the chief princes, came to help me:...”

In this context, “chief” can be translated: as the “head,” or, the “number one,” or, “one of.” Michael is either the head, the number one, or one of the Trinity.

Still not convince? Did you know names in the Bible have meanings? For instance:

1 Mi-cha-el means = assuredly is God.
2 Elo-him means = God
3 Im-manu-el means = God with us

Note the underlined letters “el” denotes God in Hebrew.

There are many more names specially in the Old Testament, like Ezekiel and Joel...etc., but the examples above will suffice.

I pray this helped.

To God Be The Glory
I don't want to be dogmatic about it, but I believe that the world is divided into nations or territories (principalities) governed by angelic beings such as the prince of persia. Who else would be in charge of a principality in the heavenly realms but a prince? I hope this helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let us test your conclusion about Michael as a created being.

If Michael is an angel. I can see your point he is a created being, but Michael can never and will never be an angel or a created being. The proof that he’s not is overwhelming. Normally, the word princes and kings are interchangeable.

There are three kings/princes in the Trinity:

1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit

Daniel 10:13 reads:

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days, but, lo , Michael one of the chief princes, came to help me:...”

In this context, “chief” can be translated: as the “head,” or, the “number one,” or, “one of.” Michael is either the head, the number one, or one of the Trinity.

Still not convince? Did you know names in the Bible have meanings? For instance:

1 Mi-cha-el means = assuredly is God.
2 Elo-him means = God
3 Im-manu-el means = God with us

Note the underlined letters “el” denotes God in Hebrew.

There are many more names specially in the Old Testament, like Ezekiel and Joel...etc., but the examples above will suffice.

I pray this helped.

To God Be The Glory
BTW, you've mistranslated the name Michael. Oh yes, nearly forgot, the principality of God's chosen people would be a chief one.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A big AMEN to that Brother lol..... Another little clue when looking for believers....... Thankfully we don't have to sneakily try to make a little fish in the sand to identify ourselves these days, but it seems to be as difficult finding them as if they are hiding? Perhaps God is hiding them all In Him until one day, He suddenly does something which reveals them...I am certain you follow what I mean, so I do look for little hints here and there which indicates whether or not they have the Holy Spirit. Not saying that I can be assured of 100% success as it's harder when not seeing a persons face and eyes.
I enjoy your contributions a lot.....God bless you Pia
Thanks, I understand what you're saying. I just tend to assume with some people that their thinking is carnal or their statements abusive because of spiritual immaturity. I was as guilty of being judgmental as the next person when I was young. It takes time to change the way a person thinks. Some even have to learn how to think for themselves, but God is able to make the simple wise. I won't call myself wise but I know that I was born as simple as can be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia and Helen