It is not in any sense working FOR salvation to receive baptism in Jesus' Name.
If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
See the (ESV, NKJV, NASB, NIV) They all say “have been” saved through faith. The Amplified Bible reads - For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Baptism is not a work...because the remission of sins and the Holy Ghost (salvation) is promised as the result of baptism in Jesus' Name. And I agree that salvation is not of works.
Nevertheless, God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
It has kept me on the narrow path that leads to life (Matthew 7:13-14).Says you. Your KJV only nonsense seems to be leading you astray.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Baptism certainly is a work. So how is it not a work to you? See Matthew 3:15. When Jesus was water baptized, He said it was fitting to fulfill all righteousness. Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5) The remission of sins (salvation) and receiving the Holy Spirit is conditioned on believes in Him/faith in Christ which precedes water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:8,9; 26:18)
What act of obedience causes us to receive the Holy Spirit? Believing the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
According to you, but I have read many of your posts and you have some erroneous beliefs. You really need to reconsider some of your beliefs.
None of my beliefs are erroneous (1 John 2:20 is written to me).
Perhaps your beliefs that are contrary to mine are the erroneous ones.
Why don't you correct me, using the kjv, concerning any of the things that I believe in? Why haven't you engaged me on any of the things that I have written? Don't you care about people whom you may believe have gone astray?
I consider that your statement is merely persecution for righteousness' sake.
No; it isn't. Otherwise, salvation wouldn't be accomplished through it. And most certainly, salvation can be accomplished through baptism (1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30).
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I have engaged you in the past, but unfortunately, I quickly learned that you just don't have ears to hear. Of course I care about people whom I believe have gone astray, but like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So my statement is merely persecution for righteousness' sake?
lol You sound like a spiritual narcissist.I don't have ears to hear doctrines that go contrary to what the Bible teaches. If you say something and I can think of a verse that contradicts it, I am not going to believe what you are saying but I will believe the Bible over you.I have engaged you in the past, but unfortunately, I quickly learned that you just don't have ears to hear. Of course I care about people whom I believe have gone astray, but like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So my statement is merely persecution for righteousness' sake?
Resorting to ad hominem is typical of those who don't have any ground to stand on logically or scripturally.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Yes, baptism is a work and salvation is not accomplished through it. Salvation is signified, but not procured through water baptism. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).
*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* :)
I'm not sure why you mentioned Romans 8:30, which has nothing to do with water baptism, but it does support eternal security. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I have plenty of ground to stand as I have cited numerous passages of scripture (and properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine) in order to support my arguments, so spare me your psychological games and as for ad hominem, if the shoe fits, wear it.
The kjv tells us that they were saved "by" water.
Noah and his family were saved by the water from the wicked people who lived in the pre-flood world of Noah.
In Acts 3:19, Peter tells the people that "their sins will be blotted out" "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord" the Holy Spirit being aware of the immediate persecution that would come on the apostles from the Sadducees, so that baptism of the new converts would be impossible until those times of refreshing came and the apostles would be able to baptize the converts.
In Acts 10 & 11, it was a time of transition...it was not yet known that Gentiles could be saved...so, in order to prove that Gentiles could be saved, God baptized Cornelius and his friends in the Holy Spirit in order to prove that Gentiles could be saved...otherwise, the circumcision group of Peter's time would never have allowed them to be baptized.
Of course, we know that if a man calls on the name of the Lord, he shall be saved (Romans 10:13)...
If someone merely believes, he should not perish. (John 3:16)...
if someone believes and is baptized, he shall be saved. (Mark 16:16)
Notice the absolute terminology verses the iffy terminology that is used in each situation.
This leads me to believe that baptism in Jesus' Name will secure salvation for the one who believes and receives it; while merely believing in Jesus is a less secure proposition.
See Acts of the Apostles 22:16. In that verse, Paul is to arise and be baptized, and wash away his sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It is to be compared with Acts 2:39; where we find that the conditional promise of the Holy Ghost through water baptism in Jesus' Name is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Such receive baptism in Jesus' Name because they were predestined to do so...and because they received it, they were justified and shall be glorified.
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While baptism does not remove the filth of the flesh, it does wash away sins (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).
Nope, doesn't fit at all.
What I said about you does fit you, however (for you have not properly harmonized scripture and neither have you rightly divided the word of truth).
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