If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[PeterAndroz]

From the OP:

Rather, context is required. We must consider the complete sentence:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

earnest = down payment

Tick, tick, tick...


If one cannot become "un-sealed" in the meantime, then why the admonition to "grieve not the holy Spirit of God"?

Tick, tick, tick
Where does Paul teach a SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Just the verses D, not your interpretation, tick, tick, tick

 

[rockytopva]

If I had to take a stab of the seven stars (messengers) to the seven candlesticks (churches)...

Original messenger - Church
1. Peter - Messianic
2. Paul - Early Gentile
3. Constantine - Greek Orthodox
4. Theodosius I - Catholic
5. Martin Luther - Protestant
6. John Wesley - The revived church (Methodist - Pentecostal)
7. Robert Shuller - The Country Club

One Church... Millions of congregations...
1. Ephesus - Messianic Jewish Church
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox - The Roman persecutions were ten
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox - Pergos... A tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - Middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant - A sardis is a gem... Beautiful,,, Not much spiritually
6. Philadelphia - Wesleyan - Too bad the revivals didn't last longer
7. Laodicean - Word of Faith - Rich and have need of nothing?


Seven candlesticks - Seven generalized congregation - All unique - And Christ walking in the midst
Seven seals - Those names written in the Lambs Book of Life
Seven stars - Those messengers to the congregations

Regarding who is sealed in the Lamb's Book of Life...

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5

There is no man who is able to look into the Lamb's Book of Life and figure out whose sealed... unsealed... Or who has never been sealed. All of that is Heavenly business.

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? - John 21

 

[Armour of God]

What does it mean to be "sealed"?
What's the definition of "sealed"?

 

[Gray_Joy]

What does it mean to be "sealed"?
What's the definition of "sealed"?

What are your answers,understanding?

 

[bdavidc]

Christ through Paul teaches how we receive the HS.
Where does Christ through Paul teach that a SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Verses please :)
.....
Eph 1:13 :-
In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 :-
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I do not see anywhere in Paul’s writings where a truly sealed believer becomes unsealed.

Ephesians 1:13 says that after hearing “the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation,” and believing, believers “were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” Then Ephesians 4:30 says we are “sealed unto the day of redemption.”

That phrase matters. It does not say sealed until your next failure. It does not say sealed until your next weakness. It does not say sealed until your next season of grief, struggle, correction, or chastening. It says sealed “unto the day of redemption.”

Now let us not twist that into careless living. The same verse says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God” ~Ephesians 4:30. A sealed believer can grieve the Spirit. A sealed believer can be corrected. A sealed believer can be chastened. But grieving the Spirit is not the same thing as losing the seal.

Paul also says the Spirit is “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:14. That is God’s pledge. God does not put His seal on His people and then act like His own promise depends on the unstable grip of man.

Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:27-28.

That is not weak language. “Eternal life” is not temporary life. “Never perish” does not mean maybe perish later. If Christ gives life, Christ keeps what He gives.

But here is where the conscience needs to be pressed. This truth is no comfort to the false professor who wants assurance while living in rebellion. The Bible does not teach that a man can love sin, reject correction, despise holiness, and still hide behind the word “sealed” like a thief hiding behind a church door.

“If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature” ~2 Corinthians 5:17.

So if a person abandons the faith, rejects Christ, loves darkness, and walks away from the gospel, Scripture does not say he was sealed and then unsealed. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

That is the biblical line.

A true believer may stumble, but he will not be finally cast away. A false professor may look religious for a season, but time exposes what was never rooted in Christ.

So the question is not, “Can God lose someone He sealed?” Scripture gives no such teaching.

The question is, “Have I truly believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, or am I only wearing Christian language?”

God keeps His own. But His own hear His voice and follow Him.

 

[Rockerduck]

If I had to take a stab of the seven stars (messengers) to the seven candlesticks (churches)...

Original messenger - Church
1. Peter - Messianic
2. Paul - Early Gentile
3. Constantine - Greek Orthodox
4. Theodosius I - Catholic
5. Martin Luther - Protestant
6. John Wesley - The revived church (Methodist - Pentecostal)
7. Robert Shuller - The Country Club

One Church... Millions of congregations...
1. Ephesus - Messianic Jewish Church
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox - The Roman persecutions were ten
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox - Pergos... A tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - Middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant - A sardis is a gem... Beautiful,,, Not much spiritually
6. Philadelphia - Wesleyan - Too bad the revivals didn't last longer
7. Laodicean - Word of Faith - Rich and have need of nothing?


Seven candlesticks - Seven generalized congregation - All unique - And Christ walking in the midst
Seven seals - Those names written in the Lambs Book of Life
Seven stars - Those messengers to the congregations

Regarding who is sealed in the Lamb's Book of Life...

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5

There is no man who is able to look into the Lamb's Book of Life and figure out whose sealed... unsealed... Or who has never been sealed. All of that is Heavenly business.

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? - John 21

You left out Charles Spurgeon - Baptist.

 

[MatthewG]

When Paul speaks of believers being “sealed unto the day of redemption” (Ephesians 4:30), it is important to read that phrase within the larger biblical storyline and the historical context in which the apostles ministered. Paul was not writing abstract theology detached from the timeline Jesus Himself established. Rather, he consistently anchored his expectations to the same climactic event Christ promised would occur within that generation.

Jesus taught that the culmination of God’s redemptive plan—the gathering of His people, the vindication of the righteous, and the end of the Mosaic age—would take place before the passing of the generation to whom He spoke (Matthew 24:34). He described this moment as the time when redemption would draw near (Luke 21:28). Paul uses the same language when he speaks of the Spirit as the “earnest” or down payment “until the redemption of the purchased possession” (Ephesians 1:14). In other words, the Spirit’s sealing functioned as God’s guarantee that His people would be preserved through the transition from the old covenant world into the fully established new covenant order.

Paul’s letters reflect this expectation. He repeatedly speaks of the approaching “day” as something near, imminent, and relevant to his own audience (Romans 13:11–12; Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17). The writer of Hebrews echoes the same urgency, declaring that Christ’s coming would occur in “a very little while” and would “not tarry” (Hebrews 10:37). These statements make the most sense when understood as referring to the first‑century fulfillment of Jesus’ promises, culminating in the fall of Jerusalem and the end of the temple system in AD 70.

Within this framework, the “day of redemption” is not a distant, undefined event but the decisive moment when Christ completed the redemptive work He began, gathered His people, and brought the old covenant age to its close. The Spirit’s sealing was the divine pledge that believers would be preserved through that transition and fully included in the new creation reality inaugurated by Christ.

This perspective does not diminish the ongoing work of the Spirit in believers today. Rather, it clarifies the original purpose of the sealing language in Paul’s letters and situates it within the historical and covenantal shift that defined the first century. It recognizes that the apostles were not writing in a vacuum—they were interpreting and applying the very timeline Jesus Himself established.

 

[Armour of God]

What are your answers,understanding?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking

 

[MatthewG]

When Paul speaks of believers being “sealed unto the day of redemption” (Ephesians 4:30), it is important to read that phrase within the larger biblical storyline and the historical context in which the apostles ministered. Paul was not writing abstract theology detached from the timeline Jesus Himself established. Rather, he consistently anchored his expectations to the same climactic event Christ promised would occur within that generation.

Jesus taught that the culmination of God’s redemptive plan—the gathering of His people, the vindication of the righteous, and the end of the Mosaic age—would take place before the passing of the generation to whom He spoke (Matthew 24:34). He described this moment as the time when redemption would draw near (Luke 21:28). Paul uses the same language when he speaks of the Spirit as the “earnest” or down payment “until the redemption of the purchased possession” (Ephesians 1:14). In other words, the Spirit’s sealing functioned as God’s guarantee that His people would be preserved through the transition from the old covenant world into the fully established new covenant order.

Paul’s letters reflect this expectation. He repeatedly speaks of the approaching “day” as something near, imminent, and relevant to his own audience (Romans 13:11–12; Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17). The writer of Hebrews echoes the same urgency, declaring that Christ’s coming would occur in “a very little while” and would “not tarry” (Hebrews 10:37). These statements make the most sense when understood as referring to the first‑century fulfillment of Jesus’ promises, culminating in the fall of Jerusalem and the end of the temple system in AD 70.

Within this framework, the “day of redemption” is not a distant, undefined event but the decisive moment when Christ completed the redemptive work He began, gathered His people, and brought the old covenant age to its close. The Spirit’s sealing was the divine pledge that believers would be preserved through that transition and fully included in the new creation reality inaugurated by Christ.

This perspective does not diminish the ongoing work of the Spirit in believers today. Rather, it clarifies the original purpose of the sealing language in Paul’s letters and situates it within the historical and covenantal shift that defined the first century. It recognizes that the apostles were not writing in a vacuum—they were interpreting and applying the very timeline Jesus Himself established.

The reason I raised the issue of turning away from God is because, from my understanding, the Scriptures indicate that the bride has already been taken and gathered. Therefore, I do not believe I need to be “sealed” for the great and dreadful day of Yahavah (Malachi 4:5). The consistent truth throughout Scripture is that people either choose to remain faithful to Yahavah or they turn away from Him, just as I mentioned earlier.

People make their own choices. Yeshua Himself taught that some receive the word, but the cares of this world eventually choke it out. “The cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful” (Matthew 13:22). It’s not that these individuals were never sincere or never belonged to God — rather, their priorities shifted, and they let go of Him. And God, honoring human freedom, allows them to do so. “Choose this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).

In the first century, there were people who believed in Yeshua but were afraid to openly confess it because of the consequences. “Many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear they would be put out of the synagogue” (John 12:42). These individuals were not aligned with the apostles — not truly “of us,” as John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19). Some may have even been false apostles, which Paul warned about (2 Corinthians 11:13). This historical context helps people understand what was happening in that time and why certain statements were made.

I also believe that people today can walk away from God. I do not hold to the doctrine commonly called once saved, always saved. I have no hostility toward those who do — I simply do not personally believe it. Scripture repeatedly shows that faithfulness is a daily choice. “If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me” (Luke 9:23). Every person must decide whether they will acknowledge and love God and love their neighbor as themselves (Matthew 22:37–39). It really is that straightforward.

 

[MatthewG]

The reason I raised the issue of turning away from God is because, from my understanding, the Scriptures indicate that the bride has already been taken and gathered. Therefore, I do not believe I need to be “sealed” for the great and dreadful day of Yahavah (Malachi 4:5). The consistent truth throughout Scripture is that people either choose to remain faithful to Yahavah or they turn away from Him, just as I mentioned earlier.

People make their own choices. Yeshua Himself taught that some receive the word, but the cares of this world eventually choke it out. “The cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful” (Matthew 13:22). It’s not that these individuals were never sincere or never belonged to God — rather, their priorities shifted, and they let go of Him. And God, honoring human freedom, allows them to do so. “Choose this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).

In the first century, there were people who believed in Yeshua but were afraid to openly confess it because of the consequences. “Many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear they would be put out of the synagogue” (John 12:42). These individuals were not aligned with the apostles — not truly “of us,” as John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19). Some may have even been false apostles, which Paul warned about (2 Corinthians 11:13). This historical context helps people understand what was happening in that time and why certain statements were made.

I also believe that people today can walk away from God. I do not hold to the doctrine commonly called once saved, always saved. I have no hostility toward those who do — I simply do not personally believe it. Scripture repeatedly shows that faithfulness is a daily choice. “If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me” (Luke 9:23). Every person must decide whether they will acknowledge and love God and love their neighbor as themselves (Matthew 22:37–39). It really is that straightforward.

I’m honestly amazed at how Yahavah works things out for the good of humanity. Thank You, Yahavah, and thank You for Your Son. Today, just as always, we live and we choose (Deuteronomy 30:19).

I had forgotten about that whole call to die daily and take up your cross — it’s been a while since I sat down and really read the Scriptures. But even with time passing, the words of Yeshua still stand, and they still deserve to be listened to (Luke 9:23). When you look at the contextual and historical background concerning the bride of Christ, it becomes clear that the primary audience was the first‑century church — the very people who were about to be gathered, just as Jesus promised would happen in their generation (Matthew 24:34).

To me, that means we now share in the total victory of Jesus over Satan, death, hell, and sin (1 Corinthians 15:54–57). Ancient Israel was often described spiritually as Egypt, a symbol of bondage and opposition to God’s will (Revelation 11:8). Seeing how all these pieces fit together makes the Scriptures feel even more real and interconnected.

When you consider all of this, I could be wrong — but honestly, I don’t think I am. And realizing that the fear of needing to be “sealed” for a “day” that was never meant for me is a huge relief. That burden belonged to the believers of the first century, and they don’t get nearly enough recognition for what they endured. They stayed faithful under pressures that seem almost impossible today.

Even Jesus Himself spoke some very strong words to the assemblies in Revelation — the seven churches — calling them to repent, endure, and overcome (Revelation 2–3). Their faithfulness is part of the story we inherit.

Which is sharing this victory of Yeshua!

Praise Yahavah.

Sorry @ armor of G i didnt mean to quote you.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Become UNsealed?

Because Of God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!:

"That we should be To The Praise Of His Glory, who first trusted in Christ. ​

In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard The Word Of Truth, The Gospel ​

of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED With ​

That Holy Spirit Of Promise, Which Is The Earnest of our inheritance until The ​

Redemption of The Purchased Possession, Unto The Praise Of His Glory." ​

(Ephesians 1:12-14 AV)​

An Incomplete Body Of Christ brings no "Praise To His Glory", eh?

The New Owner Of the Grace believer Says: "NO! NO Unsealing!!":

We can have Full understanding/assurance by prayerfully and Carefully 'Checking' With The New Owner
All Of His Scriptures In God's Word Of Truth Has For His Sealing / Eternal Salvation For His Body!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen!

 

[MatthewG]

Become UNsealed?

Because Of God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!:

"That we should be To The Praise Of His Glory, who first trusted in Christ. ​

In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard The Word Of Truth, The Gospel ​

of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED With ​

That Holy Spirit Of Promise, Which Is The Earnest of our inheritance until The ​

Redemption of The Purchased Possession, Unto The Praise Of His Glory." ​

(Ephesians 1:12-14 AV)​

An Incomplete Body Of Christ brings no "Praise To His Glory", eh?

The New Owner Of the Grace believer Says: "NO! NO Unsealing!!":

We can have Full understanding/assurance by prayerfully and Carefully 'Checking' With The New Owner
All Of His Scriptures In God's Word Of Truth Has For His Sealing / Eternal Salvation For His Body!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen!

I personally don’t believe the sealing applies to us in the way some people think it does. Others may see it differently, and that’s fine. As for me, I don’t need to be sealed for a day that was never meant for me. One day I’ll die like everyone else, and my hope is simply to remain faithful until the end, as the work is already finished.

Peace, yo.

 

[ScottA]

There is a difference between the word to Israel (before salvation came) and the word through Christ, the twelve, and Paul.

The promises given to God's people Israel all came with a selective "if"--because they (alone) were to be a light of truth unto all other nations. Hence the difference in terms. But those terms were unto a nation chosen for a purpose that could be lost and taken from them--not one of guarantied salvation, but "if."

However, the gift of the Holy Spirit was and is eternal life, which Jesus did offer even to that wicked generation. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required. That is what was said to Israel, and yet the verse includes the very dividing line between what was given and expected of Israel and what was only given after salvation had come through Christ unto all nations and people--and then the verse goes on, saying that the more that is required in order to receive eternal life via the Holy Spirit--would be required...of "him": "and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12:48), even His life. But do read verses 12:42-53--it's all on topic.

But we should understand the full meaning of the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is Christ fulfilling his promise of his, and the Father also, coming into us and supping with us, which has been foretold and taught "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little"--not to be considered as many matters separately, but as One, all in all. Is that not the end and the result at the last, given even as it is written--"that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:23)? Which, if God has intended to join them--"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Which, if you have not heard it before--this is the wedding and marriage of the Bride.

Even so, all are not a part--remaining outside--not for not hearing, but for not coming when called. From which many are distracted, diverted, inverted, fallen along the way. "Many are called, but few chosen." But to be as a bride with Christ, it is forever, eternal.

@MatthewG
@doctrox

 

[MatthewG]

There is a difference between the word to Israel (before salvation came) and the word through Christ, the twelve, and Paul.

The promises given to God's people Israel all came with a selective "if"--because they (alone) were to be a light of truth unto all other nations. Hence the difference in terms. But those terms were unto a nation chosen for a purpose that could be lost and taken from them--not one of guarantied salvation, but "if."

However, the gift of the Holy Spirit was and is eternal life, which Jesus did offer even to that wicked generation. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required. That is what was said to Israel, and yet the verse includes the very dividing line between what was given and expected of Israel and what was only given after salvation had come through Christ unto all nations and people--and then the verse goes on, saying that the more that is required in order to receive eternal life via the Holy Spirit--would be required...of "him": "and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12:48), even His life. But do read verses 12:42-53--it's all on topic.

But we should understand the full meaning of the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is Christ fulfilling his promise of his, and the Father also, coming into us and supping with us, which has been foretold and taught "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little"--not to be considered as many matters separately, but as One, all in all. Is that not the end and the result at the last, given even as it is written--"that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:23)? Which, if God has intended to join them--"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Which, if you have not heard it before--this is the wedding and marriage of the Bride.

Even so, all are not a part--remaining outside--not for not hearing, but for not coming when called. From which many are distracted, diverted, inverted, fallen along the way. "Many are called, but few chosen." But to be as a bride with Christ, it is forever, eternal.

Hello, I understand what you’re saying about the distinction between the word given to Israel under the “if” covenant, and the word that came through Christ after salvation was accomplished. But from what I see in Scripture, the Bride of Christ has already been gathered, taken, and brought into the promise that Jesus said would happen to that generation.

Jesus Himself said there would be a unique tribulation and deliverance that no other people would ever experience again (Matthew 24:21). That was tied directly to the end of the age, the fall of the Temple, and the fulfillment of all things written (Luke 21:22). He told His disciples plainly: “This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34).

The Bride — the faithful remnant who heard His call — was received just as He promised. Revelation speaks of the marriage of the Lamb as something that was at hand for them (Revelation 19:7). Paul also said the believers of his day were already betrothed to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2), awaiting the completion of what Jesus had promised.

So yes — I believe the Bride has already been gathered and brought into that covenant reality. What they experienced was once‑for‑all, never to be repeated, exactly as Jesus said. The wedding, the union, the coming of the Lord to His people — all of it was fulfilled when He came to that generation just as He said He would.

 

[ScottA]

What does it mean to be "sealed"?
What's the definition of "sealed"?

Paul gave the term--not as a put-off, but as a promise, a confirmation to those who at the time were waiting and wondering when all things would be fulfilled.

In other words, Paul know that his message would require the endurance, the steadfastness to last from what was then only the beginning of the promise of eternal life...all the way through and to the end of the Church age. Otherwise...there is not "seal" per se.

Paul's use of the term was his own seal placed upon the promise of eternal life by Christ. His own seal--not counter to the promise--but in accord. That's it.

Meanwhile, the promise of eternal life had already begun--as Jesus "the firstfruits" (of all involved in this topic) told the thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in Paradise"--which one does not enter into without being One with Christ--"No one comes to the Father except through Me."

 

[MatthewG]

There is a difference between the word to Israel (before salvation came) and the word through Christ, the twelve, and Paul.

The promises given to God's people Israel all came with a selective "if"--because they (alone) were to be a light of truth unto all other nations. Hence the difference in terms. But those terms were unto a nation chosen for a purpose that could be lost and taken from them--not one of guarantied salvation, but "if."

However, the gift of the Holy Spirit was and is eternal life, which Jesus did offer even to that wicked generation. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required. That is what was said to Israel, and yet the verse includes the very dividing line between what was given and expected of Israel and what was only given after salvation had come through Christ unto all nations and people--and then the verse goes on, saying that the more that is required in order to receive eternal life via the Holy Spirit--would be required...of "him": "and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12:48), even His life. But do read verses 12:42-53--it's all on topic.

But we should understand the full meaning of the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is Christ fulfilling his promise of his, and the Father also, coming into us and supping with us, which has been foretold and taught "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little"--not to be considered as many matters separately, but as One, all in all. Is that not the end and the result at the last, given even as it is written--"that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:23)? Which, if God has intended to join them--"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Which, if you have not heard it before--this is the wedding and marriage of the Bride.

Even so, all are not a part--remaining outside--not for not hearing, but for not coming when called. From which many are distracted, diverted, inverted, fallen along the way. "Many are called, but few chosen." But to be as a bride with Christ, it is forever, eternal.

@MatthewG
@doctrox

I don’t see myself as part of that “many are called, but few chosen” group Jesus spoke to (Matthew 22:14). That statement was directed to the people of His own generation — the ones invited to the wedding feast, yet refusing to come (Matthew 22:1–7). I’m simply Matthew, a believer in the Lord Jesus who was raised from the dead by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:11). My faith is in the risen Christ, not in being part of that first‑century remnant.

I don’t carry the same concerns they were commanded to carry. The warnings about being “sealed” (Revelation 7:3–4), the “great and dreadful day of Yahavah” (Malachi 4:5–6), and the call to flee from the wrath that was “about to come” (1 Thessalonians 1:10) were spoken to them, not to me. Jesus Himself said all those things would come upon that generation (Matthew 23:36; Matthew 24:34).

I’m not part of the first‑century Bride of Christ. Scripture shows that they were the ones betrothed as a pure virgin to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2). They were the ones told that the marriage supper of the Lamb was “at hand” (Revelation 19:7). They were the ones instructed to “watch,” “wait,” and “look for His appearing” because He was coming in their lifetime (Luke 21:28–32; Hebrews 10:37).

Jesus repeatedly told them:

• “Watch therefore” (Matthew 24:42)
• “When you see these things… know that it is near” (Luke 21:31)
• “This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34)

Paul confirmed the same urgency:

• “The night is far spent, the day is at hand” (Romans 13:11–12)
• “The Lord is near” (Philippians 4:5)
• “We who are alive and remain” (1 Thessalonians 4:15)

Those were their instructions, their warnings, and their promises. They were the ones living in the final days of the old covenant age (Hebrews 8:13). They were the ones who would see the Son of Man “coming on the clouds” in judgment, just as Daniel 7:13–14 foretold and Jesus affirmed (Matthew 26:64).

So I have no reason to believe I’m part of that original Bride. They were the ones called to watch for His return, and they were the ones who experienced the unique tribulation Jesus said would “never happen again” (Matthew 24:21).

I’m simply a believer today — living by faith in the risen Lord, not under the covenant expectations, warnings, or prophetic timetable that belonged to that first‑century people.

 

[ScottA]

Hello, I understand what you’re saying about the distinction between the word given to Israel under the “if” covenant, and the word that came through Christ after salvation was accomplished. But from what I see in Scripture, the Bride of Christ has already been gathered, taken, and brought into the promise that Jesus said would happen to that generation.

Jesus Himself said there would be a unique tribulation and deliverance that no other people would ever experience again (Matthew 24:21). That was tied directly to the end of the age, the fall of the Temple, and the fulfillment of all things written (Luke 21:22). He told His disciples plainly: “This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34).

The Bride — the faithful remnant who heard His call — was received just as He promised. Revelation speaks of the marriage of the Lamb as something that was at hand for them (Revelation 19:7). Paul also said the believers of his day were already betrothed to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2), awaiting the completion of what Jesus had promised.

So yes — I believe the Bride has already been gathered and brought into that covenant reality. What they experienced was once‑for‑all, never to be repeated, exactly as Jesus said. The wedding, the union, the coming of the Lord to His people — all of it was fulfilled when He came to that generation just as He said He would.

Oh Matthew--God love ya--much of what you write should be preface with "It would see to me..."

But the Bride is the Church, and the Church age is not completely fulfilled.

As for that "generation" and "great tribulation", "rightly dividing the word of truth" is needed. Jesus stood as one with "his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land" at the apex and on the cusp between every matter, speaking words of earthly things and also of heavenly things, not to be confused with one another. But you are correct--all those things came upon that (present and now past) generation. But all things that were included had not yet all been made manifest.

This is a great mystery--the greatest--hence the term "great tribulation." The "all" in "all these things" actually means "all"--so again--you are correct. But just as "all" that was before that "generation" did not actually occur during the time of that generation"--likewise, much of what was yet to be made manifest in the future was also including in all that was fulfilled and came upon that generation, but also would have to be lived out just as those former generations were. From this comes many sayings...such as, "before the foundation of the world", "as in the days of Noah", and "I was (past tense) crucified with Christ", etc., wherein we too--every generation--gets to walk out and work out their own salvation. All of which is only clear, except when considering the eternal or heavenly occurrence as opposed to the earthly--both being true. Rightly divided.

But you have been mixing the two--which would be fine if we were past the end of all things being made manifest on earth, after the world has fully passed away, except we are still living within that earthly part not to be confused with the heavenly part--but rightly divided. Until then, our prayer should be as Christ's: "On earth as it is in heaven", as some things are yet to be fully divided.

 

[MatthewG]

Oh Matthew--God love ya--much of what you write should be preface with "It would see to me..."

But the Bride is the Church, and the Church age is not completely fulfilled.

As for that "generation" and "great tribulation", "rightly dividing the word of truth" is needed. Jesus stood as one with "his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land" at the apex and on the cusp between every matter, speaking words of earthly things and also of heavenly things, not to be confused with one another. But you are correct--all those things came upon that (present and now past) generation. But all things that were included had not yet all been made manifest.

This is a great mystery--the greatest--hence the term "great tribulation." The "all" in "all these things" actually means "all"--so again--you are correct. But just as "all" that was before that "generation" did not actually occur during the time of that generation"--likewise, much of what was yet to be made manifest in the future was also including in all that was fulfilled and came upon that generation, but also would have to be lived out just as those former generations were. From this comes many sayings...such as, "before the foundation of the world", "as in the days of Noah", and "I was (past tense) crucified with Christ", etc., wherein we too--every generation--gets to walk out and work out their own salvation. All of which is only clear, except when considering the eternal or heavenly occurrence as opposed to the earthly--both being true. Rightly divided.

But you have been mixing the two--which would be fine if we were past the end of all things being made manifest on earth, after the world has fully passed away, except we are still living within that earthly part not to be confused with the heavenly part--but rightly divided. Until then, our prayer should be as Christ's: "On earth as it is in heaven", as some things are yet to be fully divided.

I hear what you’re saying, but from my understanding of Scripture, Jesus wasn’t mixing heavenly and earthly timelines — He was speaking directly to His own generation. He said “all these things” would come upon them (Matthew 23:36), and that “this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34). That’s not symbolic language; it’s a time‑statement.

The apostles also taught the same urgency:

• “The end of all things is at hand.” (1 Peter 4:7)
• “In a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.” (Hebrews 10:37)
• “The time is short.” (1 Corinthians 7:29)

Those weren’t instructions for every age — they were spoken to the people who were actually living in the last days of the old covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

So I’m not part of that first‑century Bride who was told to watch, wait, and look for His coming. They were the ones sealed, warned, and gathered. I’m simply living in the faith that came after those things were fulfilled, not inside the prophetic window that belonged to them.



Hey @ScottA, you’re free to believe whatever you believe, and I respect that. I’m just sharing where I stand, and I’m not really looking to change my view right now. I don’t think I’m wrong — but I also know I could be. And the same goes for anyone, including you. We’re all trying to understand things the best we can.

At the end of the day, people are going to believe what they choose. I’m only sharing Scripture to explain why I see things the way I do. No one has to follow me, agree with me, or take anything I say as authority. I’m not asking for anything from anyone — not attention, not agreement, not money.

If you’ve got something new to add, I’m open to hearing it. If not, no worries at all. I’m good either way.

 

[ScottA]

I don’t see myself as part of that “many are called, but few chosen” group Jesus spoke to (Matthew 22:14). That statement was directed to the people of His own generation — the ones invited to the wedding feast, yet refusing to come (Matthew 22:1–7). I’m simply Matthew, a believer in the Lord Jesus who was raised from the dead by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:11). My faith is in the risen Christ, not in being part of that first‑century remnant.

I don’t carry the same concerns they were commanded to carry. The warnings about being “sealed” (Revelation 7:3–4), the “great and dreadful day of Yahavah” (Malachi 4:5–6), and the call to flee from the wrath that was “about to come” (1 Thessalonians 1:10) were spoken to them, not to me. Jesus Himself said all those things would come upon that generation (Matthew 23:36; Matthew 24:34).

I’m not part of the first‑century Bride of Christ. Scripture shows that they were the ones betrothed as a pure virgin to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2). They were the ones told that the marriage supper of the Lamb was “at hand” (Revelation 19:7). They were the ones instructed to “watch,” “wait,” and “look for His appearing” because He was coming in their lifetime (Luke 21:28–32; Hebrews 10:37).

Jesus repeatedly told them:

• “Watch therefore” (Matthew 24:42)
• “When you see these things… know that it is near” (Luke 21:31)
• “This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34)

Paul confirmed the same urgency:

• “The night is far spent, the day is at hand” (Romans 13:11–12)
• “The Lord is near” (Philippians 4:5)
• “We who are alive and remain” (1 Thessalonians 4:15)

Those were their instructions, their warnings, and their promises. They were the ones living in the final days of the old covenant age (Hebrews 8:13). They were the ones who would see the Son of Man “coming on the clouds” in judgment, just as Daniel 7:13–14 foretold and Jesus affirmed (Matthew 26:64).

So I have no reason to believe I’m part of that original Bride. They were the ones called to watch for His return, and they were the ones who experienced the unique tribulation Jesus said would “never happen again” (Matthew 24:21).

I’m simply a believer today — living by faith in the risen Lord, not under the covenant expectations, warnings, or prophetic timetable that belonged to that first‑century people.

I understand. However, and I think you know this and have even said so, that your position is not necessarily the correct one. Still, in sharing your position, two things are possible: That you encourage some to know that it is okay to be seeing things as you do until if and when you know better, or encouraging some to actually think that what you now only believe is gospel enough. There is a danger. Words have power.

For this reason we should all be considerate of the impact we may have.

 

[ScottA]

I hear what you’re saying, but from my understanding of Scripture, Jesus wasn’t mixing heavenly and earthly timelines —

I'll stop there--it is enough.

No, and taking a position that Jesus and his time among us was not for, and spoken of, all times...is grossly not biblical.

Thank you for saying "my understanding."