If the law was abolished at the cross...

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Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
Jun2u said:
Both the words of Jesus and Paul bring eternal life for the words they speak are derived from one Gospel which is the Bible. We read in 1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

This verse tell us that the things Paul wrote were commanded and inspired by God, just as we've learned that Moses and Jeremiah were commanded to write a book, as “holy men of old spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them.”

I say this kindly but you see only a small part of a bigger picture. What this mean is that you still don't know how to connect the dots to get a bigger picture. We all went through this, well at least I have. Sometimes we can learn and be edified by what others say

I just remembered, and I've forgotten which topic it was, where there was a mention of the word “light.” It just dawned on me that the discussion was about the term, 'let there be light.' The discussions were about scientific things. Then out of the blue you made a statement, isn't Jesus the light? Wow, I said what an insight because Scripture do tell us that Jesus is the light of the world, but sadly, no one gave credence to your observation.

So don't be too harsh on people who tries to correct you only make sure he is faithful to the word of God.

To God Be The Glory
:rolleyes: I have tried explaining to this bunch that Paul never taught that the law was done away. I tried to explain to them that, not only did the great man keep the law Himself, but he also encouraged others to keep it as well.
I've shown them that Jesus sent the rest of the Apostles into all the nations of the world with instructions to teach them all that He had taught them during His life with them.
And I have pointed out that it is quite unlikely that He would go and get some new kid, and send him out with an entirely different cirricuculum. No...Paul was to preach and teach the same things Jesus taught, and the same things the Apostles taught.

But I have found that this is too much information for most folks to take in at one time.
So, it seems better to feed it to them, one small teaspoon at a time...
 

FHII

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The Barrd said:
:rolleyes: I have tried explaining to this bunch that Paul never taught that the law was done away. I tried to explain to them that, not only did the great man keep the law Himself, but he also encouraged others to keep it as well.
I've shown them that Jesus sent the rest of the Apostles into all the nations of the world with instructions to teach them all that He had taught them during His life with them.
And I have pointed out that it is quite unlikely that He would go and get some new kid, and send him out with an entirely different cirricuculum. No...Paul was to preach and teach the same things Jesus taught, and the same things the Apostles taught.

But I have found that this is too much information for most folks to take in at one time.
So, it seems better to feed it to them, one small teaspoon at a time...
The problem is that those you are trying to indoctrinate are like thr Bereans. And they ain't buying it!

You try to tell us the law wasn't done away, yet ee read 2 Cor 3 and see it directly contradicts your teaching.

You say that Paul kept the law, yet weread 1 Tim 1:15 and we see him saying he is (not "was") the chief sinner. Not to mention his discourse in Romans 7. He said he did keep the law, but it wasn't the law of Moses which you say he did keep.

You say he taught others to keep the Law, yet we read the book of Galatians which is entirely contradictory to your indoctrination.

You say that Jesus sent the apostles to teach all...ALL... the he taught them. Amen! The problem is he didn't just teach the Law of Moses. Why, it wasn't even his focal point! He taught grace, mercy and himself. He taught he was they way, not the Law.

Did i leave anything out?
 

FHII

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The Barrd said:
Like the Bereans! Oh....my poor tummy! I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
okay...this is going to take awhile...

TO BE CONTINUED...
It shouldn't. I suspect it'll be the same old rhetoric you've given for months. Why not just cut and paste one of your old posts?

God said in the book of Isaiah that he would do a new thing. Why don't you try doing something new?
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
You say that Paul kept the law, yet weread 1 Tim 1:15 and we see him saying he is (not "was") the chief sinner. Not to mention his discourse in Romans 7. He said he did keep the law, but it wasn't the law of Moses which you say he did keep.
WOW. Nothing like diving right into those shark infested waters, eh, FHII? Did you even read this scripture?

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Just in case you missed it, let me repeat for you what Paul has to say about himself, here:
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious...

Paul never let himself forget for a single moment that he had once been Saul...the man who had held the cloaks of the men who stoned Stephen to death, also consenting unto the crime....or that he had been single-handedly responsible for the persecution and deaths of countless other Christians...in fact, he was on his way to Damascus, breathing out threats and mayhem against the Lord's people when Jesus laid him out and blinded him. And you might consider that God's people were a bit leery of him for awhile after that. Ananias did not want to help him at first...and who could blame him?

We would do well to take a lesson from Paul, here...and remember our own sins. And it might not be a bad idea to show Jesus some gratitude as Paul does here, as well....even if we are not vengeful murderers...

Hint: This is probably not the best scripture to go to if you really want to prove that Paul did not keep the law. Unless you think he continued persecuting and killing after his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus?????

Oh, yeah...and, uh..."Thou shalt not kill"... ;)

TO BE CONTINUED
 

FHII

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The Barrd said:
Where do you see the Ten Commandments in that chapter?
All I see is Moses.

TO BE CONTINUED
Look harder or take the veil off
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
You say he taught others to keep the Law, yet we read the book of Galatians which is entirely contradictory to your indoctrination.
You have read this book, and you do not see that it is about such things as circumcision?

You do know that "Thou shalt be circumcised on the eighth day" is not one of the Big Ten, don't you? But just between you and me, a circumcised man is much cleaner and smells a whole lot better than an uncircumcised male.
And, I've been told that they are better at...certain things...than their uncut brothers. I dunno, but I can say that my husband, who had been circumcised, had nothing to be ashamed of in that area...
God, I miss that man!

Perhaps I need to repost the Ten Commandments for you. Would that help?
Those Commandments are not "Jewish Laws", FHII...not really. Unless you think that it's only Jews who should not murder, or only Jews who should not steal, or only Jews who should be faithful in their marriages, or only Jews who should be happy for their neighbor's successes...

Have you forgotten the parable of the Good Samaritan? Love and mercy are for everyone...Gentiles and Jews alike...

And that is the real point of Galatians.

Seriously, how did you miss that?

TO BE CONTINUED
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
You say that Jesus sent the apostles to teach all...ALL... the he taught them. Amen! The problem is he didn't just teach the Law of Moses. Why, it wasn't even his focal point! He taught grace, mercy and himself. He taught he was they way, not the Law.
Are you honestly sitting there, behind your computer, and trying to tell me that Jesus did not teach obedience to those Ten Laws?
You very well know that I can prove otherwise, I'm sure...
But I will not bore you by repeating all the times Jesus re-iterated each of the Ten Commandments, or how often He spoke of obedience...you have already rejected these things.

Was it His "focal point"? No, not really. His focal point was love, FHII. L-O-V-E. Something that is sadly lacking in these forums, where everyone is trying to prove how much smarter they are than everyone else. It is very sad that when someone comes along, begging everyone to stop the fighting and just obey the simple laws God laid down for us, that she is repeatedly attacked and belittled...

But the world never does want to hear such things. The carnal mind is at enmity with God, and, of course, with those who love Him. This is not news....

JUST ONE MORE POST....
 

Barrd

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Did i leave anything out?
Only about two thirds of the teachings of Jesus Christ...but that was to be expected, of course.

Oh, and you never did answer the last exchange between you and I...you know...the one where you had me riding a jackass?

Next, you'll be trying to involve my sweet little doggy. He might not bite....but I wouldn't be so sure about his mistress.

Gosh, that was fun!

NEXT??????
 

Barrd

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FHII said:
It shouldn't. I suspect it'll be the same old rhetoric you've given for months. Why not just cut and paste one of your old posts?

God said in the book of Isaiah that he would do a new thing. Why don't you try doing something new?
I do hope you aren't planning on being rude all through this entire conversation.
I mean, you're a smart guy, with a rapier wit...I ought to know, I've been on the receiving end of that sword of yours a few times.
I have come to expect more of you than I do of most folks, FHII.
Surely you have more to offer?
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
I thought I "dealt with" those verses when I pointed out that John's baptism was temporary. Perhaps you missed it?
At this point in time, with the Baptist long dead and every Christian being baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, it is true that every Christian receives the Holy Spirit.
You should know if you actually did so all you're doing here is equivocating some more. You didn't deal with it nor are you answering the questions you're being presented with. John the Baptist made it very clear that he was to baptize with water and Jesus was baptized with the Holy Spirit. The baptism started in Acts 4:2. Why you choose to ignore this rather than embrace it is beyond me. It is not true that every Christian receives the Holy Spirit unless they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The Barrd said:
There is no separate "baptism of the Holy Spirit". The Bible does not teach that.
Yes, there is "power from on high", and yes, there are "gifts of the spirit"...even to our day. However, these gifts are very rare, just as they always were, and the gift of tongues is not some ooga booga nonsense babbling that nobody can understand. It never was...
There sure is and it's exemplified at least 4 times in the book of Acts. When was the last time you actually read the book of Acts?

The Barrd said:
Stan, Stan, Stan...let's be honest with each other, here.
If I leave the tiniest little opening, you're going to rush in, guns blazing.
As I have said...we've known each other for several months...
I'm always honest with you and with everyone else so I'm not really quite sure what you're insinuating here?
I'm also not sure what you mean by we've known each other for several months? We discuss in an open forum, and that doesn't mean you know me and it sure doesn't mean I know you. I can reasonably assume based on my thoughts that have been expressed as well as others, that you have a very poor grasp an understanding scripture and that always gets you in trouble because of your desire to belittle and try to prove yourself when others prove you wrong. If you don't want to be proved wrong then don't make fallacious assertions. I'm glad that derogatory comment that you made about Pentecostals was removed, but there was no reason you should have made that at all, except that it is consistent with how you handle being proven wrong. You have several times in the past expressed open disdain for any kind of spiritual charisma shown by people even though you cannot refute it through scripture. Seems he would rather emulate the Pharisees than emulate Jesus?


The Barrd said:
Let me try to make this as simple as possible.
Let's say you have a favorite book...I always liked 'The Big Fisherman', by Lloyd C. Douglas, but you may pick out any book you like.
You really like this book...but it's rather clumsy to carry around with you. You wish it would fit into your pocket...make it easier for you to have it on hand for those times when you have to sit and wait...like at the doctor's office, for instance.
Are you with me so far?
Let's just stick with what the Bible says and not deflect by going to books written by men. You're down home school marm time doesn't really work here despite your repeated attempts. All that does is sound hokie, and when you say a whole lot of stuff like this and don't make a point it's just a waste of web space.

The Barrd said:
I think that what I've been saying all along is that the New Covenant is NOT a lawless covenant.
No that is not what you've been saying all along. You might have said it here but in essence what you been advocating is that we follow the old Covenant law in the New Covenant and that's why you're being refuted.

The Barrd said:
Fair enough.
So, are we to obey the Ten Commandments?
Or not?
No, we are to obey God, what don't you get about NEW Covenant?

The Barrd said:
So, it's the term "rule book" that has your panties in a bow?
Okay....how about I say something like....
Let's not throw away Granny's precious silver with the dishwater.
Would you like that better?
Despite your crudeness here you're just avoiding the issue. One thing I have learned is that you are an expert at avoiding the issue.

The Barrd said:
The fact is, where ever they are written, those precious Ten Words are immutable. They are the basic Laws that everything else is built upon. Without those laws, there would be no Christianity at all...
I have no idea what you're talking about now as I said nothing about 10 words. Also where exactly does the bible say that the Ten Commandments are immutable within the context of the New Covenant? The fact is without those laws and without the old Covenant there exists Christianity. From the very beginning there have always been people have tried to bring in Old Covenant laws to Christianity and they have been constantly refuted and rejected. You are no different than any of your counterparts that were converted at the time of Christ. You don't understand that new is not the same as old.
 

Tropical Islander

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The so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching are there to make it hard for the ones that hold to a compromised gospel to agree with the Bible on all things. The endtimes falling away and deception has to do with a mystery gnostic gospel, and the check if anyone is a victim of that are the epistles 1,2,3 of John. You can check yourself, by reading it and compare to your own beliefs. If someone wants to study that in a greater context search by keyword for teachings on "antinomianism". It's doctrinal heresy, still many here believe it, and just go in circles until infinity while never be able to work out the so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching. Since the antinomians are usually in the majority on forums it's good to have some quiet time and don't read anything else than the Bible (after you understand why antinomianism is heresy and comes directly from the misunderstanding of the relationship of grace to the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ).
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
Yep...this is the Stan I know.
StanJ said:
You should know if you actually did so all you're doing here is equivocating some more. You didn't deal with it nor are you answering the questions you're being presented with.
I actually did so. But no matter. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

John the Baptist made it very clear that he was to baptize with water and Jesus was baptized with the Holy Spirit. The baptism started in Acts 4:2. Why you choose to ignore this rather than embrace it is beyond me. It is not true that every Christian receives the Holy Spirit unless they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Here is what John the Baptist actually said:

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire

He was talking about Jesus Christ, of course. In other words, when you are baptized into Christ, you are baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

There sure is and it's exemplified at least 4 times in the book of Acts. When was the last time you actually read the book of Acts?
You mean we see the Holy Spirit giving his gifts as He wills?

I'm always honest with you and with everyone else so I'm not really quite sure what you're insinuating here?
I'm also not sure what you mean by we've known each other for several months? We discuss in an open forum, and that doesn't mean you know me and it sure doesn't mean I know you. I can reasonably assume based on my thoughts that have been expressed as well as others, that you have a very poor grasp an understanding scripture and that always gets you in trouble because of your desire to belittle and try to prove yourself when others prove you wrong. If you don't want to be proved wrong then don't make fallacious assertions. I'm glad that derogatory comment that you made about Pentecostals was removed, but there was no reason you should have made that at all, except that it is consistent with how you handle being proven wrong. You have several times in the past expressed open disdain for any kind of spiritual charisma shown by people even though you cannot refute it through scripture. Seems he would rather emulate the Pharisees than emulate Jesus?
That's right...you get cranky whenever anyone is friendly toward you. You do not like being called "brother", and will get openly hostile if anyone dares to call you "Hun".
Oh, and just so that you know, I picked up that term from an angry Pentecostal who was feeling rather hostile at the moment.
As far as I have seen, you have yet to "prove me wrong", although I'm quite sure you think that you have.
I have expressed open disdain for what is obviously fake, however, I have great respect for those who are truly gifted, rare though they are.
I have no idea who "he" is...nor, I suspect, do you.

Let's just stick with what the Bible says and not deflect by going to books written by men. You're down home school marm time doesn't really work here despite your repeated attempts. All that does is sound hokie, and when you say a whole lot of stuff like this and don't make a point it's just a waste of web space.
Too complicated for you? The point was, it doesn't really matter whether the Law is written on tablets of stone, or in the heart....it is the same law.
Just as surely as "Alice in Wonderland" is the same book whether it is written on paper or downloaded to your computer.

No that is not what you've been saying all along. You might have said it here but in essence what you been advocating is that we follow the old Covenant law in the New Covenant and that's why you're being refuted.
What I am saying is that God's laws did not change from one Covenant to the other.

No, we are to obey God, what don't you get about NEW Covenant?
How about you go through the Ten Commandments and explain to me exactly why we don't need to obey them. Take each one of them, one at a time, and explain why it is no longer needed.

Despite your crudeness here you're just avoiding the issue. One thing I have learned is that you are an expert at avoiding the issue.
Trying to find some way of putting it that you are not offended by is "avoiding the issue"?

Wait...considering who I'm dealing with, I suppose, in a sense, it is.


I have no idea what you're talking about now as I said nothing about 10 words. Also where exactly does the bible say that the Ten Commandments are immutable within the context of the New Covenant? The fact is without those laws and without the old Covenant there exists Christianity. From the very beginning there have always been people have tried to bring in Old Covenant laws to Christianity and they have been constantly refuted and rejected. You are no different than any of your counterparts that were converted at the time of Christ. You don't understand that new is not the same as old.
I'm not even going to bother myself trying to figure out what the devil you're talking about, let alone try to answer you here.
In fact, I think it would be best if I put you back in the ignore drawer. If I keep trying to talk to you, sooner or later you will do what you are so very good at...you will manipulate me into losing my temper and saying something that you can then report me for. Not this time Stan, dear.
Now, it's past this old lady's bed time, and it wouldn't hurt an old gentleman like yourself to close his weary eyes for an hour or so, as well.
Good night, God bless you....and I will not be talking to you tomorrow.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
Tropical Islander said:
The so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching are there to make it hard for the ones that hold to a compromised gospel to agree with the Bible on all things. The endtimes falling away and deception has to do with a mystery gnostic gospel, and the check if anyone is a victim of that are the epistles 1,2,3 of John. You can check yourself, by reading it and compare to your own beliefs. If someone wants to study that in a greater context search by keyword for teachings on "antinomianism". It's doctrinal heresy, still many here believe it, and just go in circles until infinity while never be able to work out the so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching. Since the antinomians are usually in the majority on forums it's good to have some quiet time and don't read anything else than the Bible (after you understand why antinomianism is heresy and comes directly from the misunderstanding of the relationship of grace to the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ).
Thank you for clearing that up.
I am honestly appalled at the numbers of "Christians" (so-called) who eschew obedience to their Lord.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
I actually did so. But no matter. I'm not going to argue with you about it.
Then show it.

The Barrd said:
Here is what John the Baptist actually said:
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire
He was talking about Jesus Christ, of course. In other words, when you are baptized into Christ, you are baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Yes he was talking or referring to Jesus and there is no 'in other words'. Jesus is the one who asked the Father to send another Advocate, the Holy Spirit, and He is the one who instructed His apostles, and by proxy us, to wait on the Holy Spirit, just as Paul taught in Acts 19. Again you fail to address the issue and resort to your own understanding which is sadly lacking. You apparently don't seem to believe in the Triune nature of God?

The Barrd said:
You mean we see the Holy Spirit giving his gifts as He wills?
I said what I meant and you equivocating just shows you can accept the truth.

The Barrd said:
That's right...you get cranky whenever anyone is friendly toward you. You do not like being called "brother", and will get openly hostile if anyone dares to call you "Hun".
Oh, and just so that you know, I picked up that term from an angry Pentecostal who was feeling rather hostile at the moment.
As far as I have seen, you have yet to "prove me wrong", although I'm quite sure you think that you have.
I have expressed open disdain for what is obviously fake, however, I have great respect for those who are truly gifted, rare though they are.
I have no idea who "he" is...nor, I suspect, do you.
Not at all. I do however do NOT like people who act and speak patronizingly as you do. I don't mind being called brother as long as the person that is calling me brother is a true brother or sister. No I don't like hun or dear or sweetie or anything like that because it is patronizing. As a friend of mine in Georgia would say if she was bothered by somebody like you; "Bless your little pea Pickin heart", and everybody would know exactly what she meant.
There's nothing fake about the Pentecostal denomination. Whatever experiences you have are your experiences and they don't represent the vast majority of Pentecostals in North America. Of course running to and fro from one place to another doesn't make for any kind of sound relationship with any group of people.
I have no idea what you're talking about in this last sentence but then again I have no idea what you're talking about most of the time.

The Barrd said:
Too complicated for you? The point was, it doesn't really matter whether the Law is written on tablets of stone, or in the heart....it is the same law.
Just as surely as "Alice in Wonderland" is the same book whether it is written on paper or downloaded to your computer.
No, just irrelevant. If you wanted to say this you should just have said this. The point you don't seem to get is that THE LAW was not written on our hearts, God wrote his laws on our hearts. Just as Paul clearly teaches in his letters, those laws are based on the individual persons need and relationship with God, which is why God does it individually. This is the whole thing about the NEW Covenant that you don't get. Why would I need God to write 'Thou shalt not kill' on my heart when there is no need for it? Why would I need God to write 'thou shalt not steal' on my heart when there's no need for it? Why would I need to have God right 'you shall have no other gods before me' when there's no need for it? That's the whole thing about individuality.
The Law is not the same as God's laws. Heb 8:6; "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises."

The Barrd said:
How about you go through the Ten Commandments and explain to me exactly why we don't need to obey them. Take each one of them, one at a time, and explain why it is no longer needed.
If you haven't understood by now the difference between the Old and New Covenant, me explaining this to you again for the hundredth time won't help. You're committed to your erroneous point of view and apparently nothing will change your mind except maybe the Holy Spirit, but of course you don't really know who He is based on your comments about the spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit being the same thing. Even though you have read Jesus' words that say 'Another Advocate', you still erroneously think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same thing.

The Barrd said:
I'm not even going to bother myself trying to figure out what the devil you're talking about, let alone try to answer you here.
In fact, I think it would be best if I put you back in the ignore drawer. If I keep trying to talk to you, sooner or later you will do what you are so very good at...you will manipulate me into losing my temper and saying something that you can then report me for. Not this time Stan
What you see here is your problem or at least one of your problems.... I'm not talking about the devil, I'm talking about your lack of understanding about the New Covenant.
You do this all the time with direct questions, you feign ignorance or obtuseness when in reality you know exactly what is being said and asked of you.
You can run and hide from me but you can't run and hide from the Holy Spirit. He will never stop showing you what you refuse to recognize and he will never move you on past that until you do.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Tropical Islander said:
The so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching are there to make it hard for the ones that hold to a compromised gospel to agree with the Bible on all things. The endtimes falling away and deception has to do with a mystery gnostic gospel, and the check if anyone is a victim of that are the epistles 1,2,3 of John. You can check yourself, by reading it and compare to your own beliefs. If someone wants to study that in a greater context search by keyword for teachings on "antinomianism". It's doctrinal heresy, still many here believe it, and just go in circles until infinity while never be able to work out the so-called contradictions in Pauls teaching. Since the antinomians are usually in the majority on forums it's good to have some quiet time and don't read anything else than the Bible (after you understand why antinomianism is heresy and comes directly from the misunderstanding of the relationship of grace to the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ).
I'm afraid you don't really understand what antinomianism is. It has nothing to do with not accepting the Old Covenant Law. In fact, Antinomianism comes from the Greek meaning lawless. In Christian theology it is a pejorative term for the teaching that Christians are under no obligation to obey the laws of ethics or morality. Christians actually have these laws written on their hearts just as God promised. These laws have nothing to do with The LAW of the Old Covenant. They are his laws not man's laws.
"Few, if any, would explicitly call themselves "antinomian," hence, it is usually a charge leveled by one group against an opposing group.
Antinomianism may be viewed as the polar opposite of legalism, the notion that obedience to a code of religious law is necessary for salvation. In this sense, both antinomianism and legalism are considered errant extremes."
(Theopedia)
Thanks Theopedia, I couldn't have said it better myself. :)
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
StanJ said:
Then show it.


John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Yes he was talking or referring to Jesus and there is no 'in other words'. Jesus is the one who asked the Father to send another Advocate, the Holy Spirit, and He is the one who instructed His apostles, and by proxy us, to wait on the Holy Spirit, just as Paul taught in Acts 19. Again you fail to address the issue and resort to your own understanding which is sadly lacking. You apparently don't seem to believe in the Triune nature of God?


I said what I meant and you equivocating just shows you can accept the truth.


Not at all. I do however do NOT like people who act and speak patronizingly as you do. I don't mind being called brother as long as the person that is calling me brother is a true brother or sister. No I don't like hun or dear or sweetie or anything like that because it is patronizing. As a friend of mine in Georgia would say if she was bothered by somebody like you; "Bless your little pea Pickin heart", and everybody would know exactly what she meant.
There's nothing fake about the Pentecostal denomination. Whatever experiences you have are your experiences and they don't represent the vast majority of Pentecostals in North America. Of course running to and fro from one place to another doesn't make for any kind of sound relationship with any group of people.
I have no idea what you're talking about in this last sentence but then again I have no idea what you're talking about most of the time.


No, just irrelevant. If you wanted to say this you should just have said this. The point you don't seem to get is that THE LAW was not written on our hearts, God wrote his laws on our hearts. Just as Paul clearly teaches in his letters, those laws are based on the individual persons need and relationship with God, which is why God does it individually. This is the whole thing about the NEW Covenant that you don't get. Why would I need God to write 'Thou shalt not kill' on my heart when there is no need for it? Why would I need God to write 'thou shalt not steal' on my heart when there's no need for it? Why would I need to have God right 'you shall have no other gods before me' when there's no need for it? That's the whole thing about individuality.
The Law is not the same as God's laws. Heb 8:6; "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises."


If you haven't understood by now the difference between the Old and New Covenant, me explaining this to you again for the hundredth time won't help. You're committed to your erroneous point of view and apparently nothing will change your mind except maybe the Holy Spirit, but of course you don't really know who He is based on your comments about the spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit being the same thing. Even though you have read Jesus' words that say 'Another Advocate', you still erroneously think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same thing.


What you see here is your problem or at least one of your problems.... I'm not talking about the devil, I'm talking about your lack of understanding about the New Covenant.
You do this all the time with direct questions, you feign ignorance or obtuseness when in reality you know exactly what is being said and asked of you.
You can run and hide from me but you can't run and hide from the Holy Spirit. He will never stop showing you what you refuse to recognize and he will never move you on past that until you do.
:popcorn:
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
I thought I had made it clear that I do not wish to talk to you any more?
You have a very nasty habit of pushing people till they break so that you can report them and feel like a big man. I've already fallen for this tactic of yours once or twice, and I do not care to give you another opportunity to try to get me banned.
So now, I am asking you, as nicely as I can, to please leave me alone.
Thank you.
That would be a false accusation but that's fine I'm used to it from you.