If you believe these are the end times, why do you not also believe great apostacy has come?

[ScottA]

Typical ScottA, frame a thesis in the negative so no one knows what the positive assertion is.

Anyone see a pattern of what follows? @ScottA, do you see the pattern? Do your pride yourself in not being understood?


Even when one finally has a clue of what you are talking about, the specifics remain unclear!


I think there is a great apostacy. Just yesterday, I started a thread about how the RCC defrocked a priest because he is Pro-Life.

Yes, there is definitely a pattern:

Isaiah 6:9​

And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’​

Matthew 13:13​

Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.​

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Typical ScottA, frame a thesis in the negative so no one knows what the positive assertion is.

I understood what he was saying, I think in this case he said it poorly, I did have to reread it, but I do the same at times and have to rewrite a post. My main problem is he is not understanding these are different issues than the Pharisees dealt with, most on here have accepted Christ as the Messiah, and in most cases no matter what your Eschatology, if you think Jesus may show up in San Francisco Bay next week, or under the Plymouth Rock next year, that is nor relevant to your salvation by faith. We believe Jesus is the son of God, the Pharisees didn't. So, why he conflates the two, to me, makes no sense.

Most people on here do not have a clue about eschatology because they were not called unto it, or if they were they have went their own way (his brightest point). Most will get to heaven, look back (we can see all things in an instant in heaven) and say, I was really, really bad at Eschatology, I should have listened to Ron(SMILE). The difference is I was called unto this 37 years ago, I think getting a dream/vision of God telling you the "Man of Sin is Here" and then a few weeks later being shown Jimmy Swaggart would fall from grace, all to prove to me, as a young Christian, His visions were fast and true, even if they took 40 years to come to pass with the first one. So, why tell me the Anti-Christ is here in 1986? God thus gave me a thirst to understand these things. After 30 years of not quite getting it in full, my heart attack slowed me down enough to see it clearly. The difference I see here on this site is see GUESSES that people say are FACTOIDS. I never did that, that is wrong, you should never ascribe anything as being of God unless you are 100 percent sure. There are 15 different "RIGHTS" on here about the same subject. The church is being deceived by Satan, that is his job, we have to learn how to tune him out. He will never stop lying, until hes in the pit.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Just believe Jesus is coming again, don't worry over pre, mid, or post tribulation. Jesus is coming soon for His sheep. Halleluiah, Amen.

I agree it doesn't matter to salvation.

But here is why I disagree, if we tell kids, "hey, no matter what you do, you are going through the 70th week tribulations" then instead of many getting saved by a word we preach of, look here, Jesus is about to return, and you better be ready, or you are going to be in serious trouble, they will just say, hey dude, if I am going to have to go through those Revelation type of troubles anyway, I might as well just sow my wild oats for a while longer.

You see, its not us that this will matter unto, it is those people who will not be ready, who will go through the tribulation , and will not be able to have enough faith, even if they somewhat believe, to overcome the Beast once he sends someone to torture their mom/dad or kids, or even themselves, they will take the Mark of the Beast instead of dying in most cases, so they need to know the truth NOW !!

How many more people would have been saved and ready for Jesus if told the true facts? We cant just say it doesn't matter. We can say it doesn't matter to us Christians who are already saved, because no matter what the Post Trib guys and Pre Wrath guys think, they are going to Heaven Pre Trib IF they have the Holy Spirit in them, if not they will be left on this earth, as will Pre Tribbers without the Holy Spirit.

But what we teach and preach will matter, souls will be lost because of Post Trib and Pre Wrath teachings.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Just believe Jesus is coming again, don't worry over pre, mid, or post tribulation. Jesus is coming soon for His sheep. Halleluiah, Amen.

The Devil comes first and he will be Idolised, just as we see nowadays all such are being idolised. everyone is awesome ?

I went into a RCC and this new Priest said first up, You are all Awesome ! and then he said to turn to others and say to them, you are awesome. From what I seen everyone did as this stupid Priest said to do but for me.
The next time I went this stupid Priest said the same rubbish directly first up and the principle was in front of me and turned around and said I was awesome, I just brushed with my hand back.
The only person I ever known as Awesome was Christ Jesus period ! and that the word Awesome should only be used in a Biblical sense and never outside of that ever.
I never heard of anyone say such a word outside of a Biblical sense until maybe year 2000 on and so bit by bit this nonsense took off as the norm. because if one was to use such a word in the way it's used nowadays back before the 1980's you could expect to get a backhander for disrespecting God.

We have an Awesome God ! that's what I heard said at Church in the 60's to 80's but then from 2013 this turned to that we are all awesome ? I said to that Priest that we are not Awesome, non of us are ! and that is a fact ! that every worthy Christian knows.
Oh poor Priest did not like that fact. The idiot was exposed !

 

[ScottA]

I understood what he was saying, I think in this case he said it poorly, I did have to reread it, but I do the same at times and have to rewrite a post. My main problem is he is nit understanding these are different issues than the Pharisees dealt with, most on here have accepted Christ as the Messiah, and in most cases no matter what your Eschatology, if you think Jesus may show up in San Francisco Bay next week, or under the Plymouth Rock next year, that is nor relevant to your salvation by faith. We believe Jesus is the son of God, the Pharisees didn't. So, why he conflates the two, to me, makes no sense.

The comparison between common Christian belief and that of the Pharisees, is not unlike the days being "as the days of Noah." Which can be denied also in a thousand ways and be just as wrong. That would mean simply not getting the comparison.

What is comparable is that the Pharisees did not see what was happening, nor did they believe it, and then it was too late. The point of making such a comparison is to say, "He who has an ear, let him hear." Not because they will, but because afterward there will be no excuse--or worse, "everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required."

Like I said, history repeats itself. Take heed.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I agree it doesn't matter to salvation.

But here is why I disagree, if we tell kids, "hey, no matter what you do, you are going through the 70th week tribulations" then instead of many getting saved by a word we preach of, look here, Jesus is about to return, and you better be ready, or you are going to be in serious trouble, they will just say, hey dude, if I am going to have to go through those Revelation type of troubles anyway, I might as well just sow my wild oats for a while longer.

You see, its not us that this will matter unto, it is those people who will not be ready, who will go through the tribulation , and will not be able to have enough faith, even if they somewhat believe, to overcome the Beast once he sends someone to torture their mom/dad or kids, or even themselves, they will take the Mark of the Beast instead of dying in most cases, so they need to know the truth NOW !!

How many more people would have been saved and ready for Jesus if told the true facts? We cant just say it doesn't matter. We can say it doesn't matter to us Christians who are already saved, because no matter what the Post Trib guys and Pre Wrath guys think, they are going to Heaven Pre Trib IF they have the Holy Spirit in them, if not they will be left on this earth, as will Pre Tribbers without the Holy Spirit.

But what we teach and preach will matter, souls will be lost because of Post Trib and Pre Wrath teachings.

Now if the majority were saved then would the Trib come upon such ?
Or is it because of backsliding and sowing the seeds of this world that the Trib comes upon this world ?

So did something fail to bring the people away from God and that leads to the Helfire ?

 

[Keraz]

Okay, so, I’m monumentally confused and now have a headache.
I went to look up Isaiah 20:9 and it’s not there in any of the translations I looked in. All of them only have 6 verses in Isaiah 20. So then I said, oh, REBible…never heard of that translation. So I googled “REBible.” Can’t find the translation anywhere. So I tried “REB translation” and REV is all that came up as revised English Bible and I said, aha, maybe that’s it. So I found a translation but, nope, it also only has 6 verses in Isaiah 20.
I’m going to take an Aleve and lie down.

Humble apologies; I meant Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, I f you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with wine, not with strong drink.
For the Lord has poured on you a spirit of deep stupor, He has closed your eyes and muffled your heads from the Prophets and seers.
The Prophetic vision of it all has become for you like the words in a sealed book....... REBible

 

[Ezra]

The comparison between common Christian belief and that of the Pharisees, is not unlike the days being "as the days of Noah." Which can be denied also in a thousand ways and be just as wrong. That would mean simply not getting the comparison.

What is comparable is that the Pharisees did not see what was happening, nor did they believe it, and then it was too late. The point of making such a comparison is to say, "He who has an ear, let him hear." Not because they will, but because afterward there will be no excuse--or worse, "everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required."

Like I said, history repeats itself. Take heed.

take your time and break it down exactly what your point is? just about when i agree with you i find something makes me go hmmm

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Now if the majority were saved then would the Trib come upon such ?

Of course, God's Justice has to come, His judgments must be come because God is a Gid of justice. God took Noah out of the Judgment with His Ark, because the Savior still had to be born, Satan was trying to defile the DNA and or the world was just too evil. So, judgment had to fall. God took Lot out of the city of Sodom, and protected Abraham, but the Messiah had yet to be born, so in both cases their A-1 job was to stay on earth in order to bring forth the Messiah.

The Church died via much tribulation for the first few centuries, but the Gospel had to be preached unto the ends of the world. So, we had to overcome the Demons/false gods and the Gospel indeed freed Western Civilization's from those demonic practices. After the Gospel has been preached unto the whole world, as in now, the Churches mission will be complete, unlike Noah, unlike Abraham & Lot, and unlike the early Church. Thus, no matter how many are saved, once the Gospel has been preached unto the whole world AND God's Wrath has come full, we the Church will go to Heaven in order to marry the Lamb, God already has a bride (Israel.......the 1444,000 have the Fathers name on their forehead). So, as you can see, the number of people saved or not saved is not one of the conditions of Jesus' return for his bride. The only conditions are, 1.) Has the Gospel been preached unto all the world? (YES) and Has God' Bowls of Wrath been filled up? (Soon to happen) The specific number saved is not relevant.

Or is it because of backsliding and sowing the seeds of this world that the Trib comes upon this world ?

Justice has to come.

So did something fail to bring the people away from God and that leads to the Helfire ?

Mankind gave the Dominion God gave them over the earth unto Satan when they wallowed in his sinful lies. Not accepting the free gift of salvation means people doom themselves unto hellfire.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The comparison between common Christian belief and that of the Pharisees, is not unlike the days being "as the days of Noah." Which can be denied also in a thousand ways and be just as wrong. That would mean simply not getting the comparison.

What is comparable is that the Pharisees did not see what was happening, nor did they believe it, and then it was too late. The point of making such a comparison is to say, "He who has an ear, let him hear." Not because they will, but because afterward there will be no excuse--or worse, "everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required."

Like I said, history repeats itself. Take heed.

They missed who Jesus was, we haven't, so there is zero comparison brother, and you know that to be true, just admit you whiffed on that thought.

The Day's of Noah simply means the end time people will love evil more than good or darkness more than light or Satan's ways (they don't believe he exists in most cases) over God's ways.

You an not compare a Believer with an Unbeliever.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Too true!
But that is because the Lord has locked the believers of false theories into their delusions. Isaiah 29:9-12 ... In the KGV, the word 'amazed', is better translated in todays understanding as: 'confused'.
Isaiah 29:9 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused...... REBible

Jesus Himself refutes this. I thank You Father, for hiding these things from the wise and learned......Matthew 11:25
Deniel 12:10 ....in the last days, only a few will understand.

This is very evident to me, as a promoter of what the Bible Prophets said, I have had very little traction in the 10+ years of posting on the eschatology forums. The understanding of what God has planned for our future, is far from most people, they grip onto their ideas, theories and outright fables and reject the truths of the Prophetic Word.
However, I realize that God cannot allow a general knowledge of what will happen. What is coming will be the great testing of our faith, 1 Peter 4:12 and it will commence with a sudden, shocking worldwide disaster.
A Day which the Prophets have comprehensively warned us about, but seems to get rejected, dismissed and ignored.

Even the Prophets knew this would be the case, they say that only AFTER that terrible Day, will people finally understand; Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:24, Jeremiah 23:20b

There is a difference between "child-like" and "childish." We are to recognize our low estate as creatures before our Creator and pay Him His due. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be wise. A good portion of Scripture are Wisdom Scriptures.

 

[Keraz]

There is a difference between "child-like" and "childish." We are to recognize our low estate as creatures before our Creator and pay Him His due. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be wise. A good portion of Scripture are Wisdom Scriptures.

Right.
Matthew 11:25 says ..... and revealed them to the simple. REB Or to 'babes', KJV.
Meaning - the uneducated, or in todays world - those not brainwashed by seminaries and Bible Colleges.
In other words: those who only accept teachings they can confirm from scripture. As the Bereans did.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Right.
Matthew 11:25 says ..... and revealed them to the simple. REB Or to 'babes', KJV.
Meaning - the uneducated, or in todays world - those not brainwashed by seminaries and Bible Colleges.
In other words: those who only accept teachings they can confirm from scripture. As the Bereans did.

I don't agree with your interpretation. You obviously failed to get Jesus' point. He wasn't saying that he didn't want to save smart or educated people. He was saying that revelation is received not by our IQ but rather, by our willingness to respond to His love.

 

[Enoch111]

Of course there would be a great apostasy before the Second Coming of Christ. We are already seeing it throughout Christendom. While it makes one sick to see what is happening, we cannot avoid noting the falling away. And it will get worse.

 

[Keraz]

I don't agree with your interpretation. You obviously failed to get Jesus' point. He wasn't saying that he didn't want to save smart or educated people. He was saying that revelation is received not by our IQ but rather, by our willingness to respond to His love.

Any smart and educated person who believes in Jesus an accepts His Atoning sacrifice, is saved. Just as John 3:16 says.

It is quite evident what Jesus meant in Matthew 11:25-26, Those people who preach false and unbiblical theories and all who believe them, will not be able to understand the truths, even when presented to them.
You, Randy; are a prime example. I have shown you the many scriptures which clearly say that Jewish Israel will be virtually wiped out. But you continue to insist on their eventual redemption as a nation.
Your mistake is in accepting the false claim of the Jews to be Israel.

The almost hilarious fact about that claim, is that they know they are not all of Israel, but maintain the deception because of the support they get from deceived Christians.
And the really funny fact about that is; those Christians want God to rapture them to heaven, while He thumps the daylights out of the Jews!

All this nonsense is part of the Great Apostasy.

 

[ScottA]

They missed who Jesus was, we haven't, so there is zero comparison brother, and you know that to be true, just admit you whiffed on that thought.

The Day's of Noah simply means the end time people will love evil more than good or darkness more than light or Satan's ways (they don't believe he exists in most cases) over God's ways.

You an not compare a Believer with an Unbeliever.

You are not being honest.

The Pharisees were learned men and knew the scriptures. Comparatively, so are many Christians of today. The Pharisees did not realize who was among them even after being told. Comparatively, most Christians today say they have Jesus in them but deny that He has come [again] to them. Many more comparisons will only be known with weeping and gnashing of teeth, soon enough.

As for unbelievers, who is an unbeliever but he who denies Jesus' presence and that He has come, and who is an "evil servant" but He who says "My master delays his coming" as most would-be Christians do?

 

[ScottA]

take your time and break it down exactly what your point is? just about when i agree with you i find something makes me go hmmm

I have said a lot on this subject, but the greatest point is the comparison we have with what occurred when Jesus came the first time. I shouldn't have to repeat what history is repeating.

• Religion and secular government had then taken over for hundreds of years prior to the first coming of Christ. It's happened again. Most Christians do not think the church is perfect, but quite pharisaically want to believe they are not the problem. Meanwhile, the reality is that great apostacy, lies, false teachers, and delusions have been foretold, and only 5 out of 10 virgins have oil. Most Christians are just not being honest with the reality of what was foretold--they don't even believe it, as if Jesus and the apostles lied instead of the false teachers who were already entering the church 2,000 years ago.
• And who has not actually believed "My master is delaying his coming?"
• And what of the scriptures that say otherwise, that Jesus was to come "soon", speaking to those He rightly addressed as "you", saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."--"you"--not a future generation? And all that was revealed in Revelation that "must shortly take place?"
• Who has reconciled the "shortly" verses with the would-be "future" verses, and said, "Surely, I am looking at it all wrong?"
• And who has considered that "the end" that Jesus spoke of was their own end occurring in their own time--as Paul said, "but each one in his own order?"

And there is much more.

 

[Wrangler]

His visions were fast and true, even if they took 40 years to come to pass with the first one. So, why tell me the Anti-Christ is here in 1986?

Definitely deserves its own thread! At least PM me the details. God told you the Anti-Christ is here in 1986? Wow!

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, there is definitely a pattern:

Obstinate. No taking the plank out of your eye eh?

I won't even comment on the humility to compare yourself to prophets. Wow!

And almost no one wants to hear anything other than what they already believe.

Think this only applies to others, huh?

"Do as I say not as I do" is not an effective strategy at persuading people.

 

[ScottA]

Obstinate. No taking the plank out of your eye eh?

I won't even comment on the humility to compare yourself to prophets. Wow!


Think this only applies to others, huh?

"Do as I say not as I do" is not an effective strategy at persuading people.

You have not accused me of saying something untrue. Still you are offended.

Speaks volumes.