If you think Mary remained a virgin till she died, then bet on it

[Peterlag]

Oh goodness.....I didn't know I was communicating with an expert. I apologize.

What are your credentials sir?

Mary

No need to apologize. I have detailed files on the attributes of the resurrected Christ and you can look over my credentials meaning how I handle the Scriptures here... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

 

[Marymog]

No need to apologize. I have detailed files on the attributes of the resurrected Christ and you can look over my credentials meaning how I handle the Scriptures here... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

Hard pass on that sir..........If you can't even acknowledge that some of the 'brothers' of Jesus that you named were not, according to Scripture, his 'brothers' then why would I go to a website filled with other non-truths from you?

None the less....thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[Augustin56]

I believe the Catholics high jacked Christianity early on probably just a few short years after all the Apostles were gone. I would not be surprised if the Catholics began even earlier and may have been involved in having some of the Apostles killed. Once the Catholics got control and grew with the help of the King of Rome was when they took the entire Christian world and tortured and killed anyone who stood in their way. They then corrupted our understanding of the Scriptures so that even the protestants to this day are very confused. One of my teachers put it this way...

Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.

You seem to imply that there was a group called Catholics, separate from the original Church founded by Christ. There is absolutely no historical data to back that up, however. Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: “As regards ‘Catholic,’ its original meaning was ‘universal’ or ‘general.’ . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society...” (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1).

St. Ignatius of Antioch, ordained and appointed by St. Peter as bishop of Antioch, wrote a letter to the Smyrneans as he was being transported to Rome to be martyred for the faith. “Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Yes, most of the doctrine that Protestants agree on comes from the original Church, the Catholic Church, since they splintered off of this Church in the 16th century. Any doctrine that was changed is clearly heresy.

 

[Peterlag]

You seem to imply that there was a group called Catholics, separate from the original Church founded by Christ. There is absolutely no historical data to back that up, however. Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: “As regards ‘Catholic,’ its original meaning was ‘universal’ or ‘general.’ . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society...” (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1).

St. Ignatius of Antioch, ordained and appointed by St. Peter as bishop of Antioch, wrote a letter to the Smyrneans as he was being transported to Rome to be martyred for the faith. “Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Yes, most of the doctrine that Protestants agree on comes from the original Church, the Catholic Church, since they splintered off of this Church in the 16th century. Any doctrine that was changed is clearly heresy.

I don't know what the Catholics were thinking when Ignatius was around. I am told he was the first to use the word Catholic. What I do know is by the time the Catholics got control of Christianity was when they began to corrupt every part of it. To this day I know of nothing that Catholics teach or have taught for more than 15 hundred years that makes any sense. Not one.

 

[Peterlag]

Hard pass on that sir..........If you can't even acknowledge that some of the 'brothers' of Jesus that you named were not, according to Scripture, his 'brothers' then why would I go to a website filled with other non-truths from you?

None the less....thank you for your time.

Mary

There has to be a reason why folks want to keep Mary from living a normal married Jewish life with a normal Jewish husband. You must be Catholic. For some reason they want to make this normal woman into a holy God like figure. It seems evil to many.

 

[Augustin56]

I don't know what the Catholics were thinking when Ignatius was around. I am told he was the first to use the word Catholic. What I do know is by the time the Catholics got control of Christianity was when they began to corrupt every part of it. To this day I know of nothing that Catholics teach or have taught for more than 15 hundred years that makes any sense. Not one.

Ignatius wasn't the first one to use the word, but the oldest surviving writing using the word was from him, as far as I can tell. The Catholic Church was the only Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Great Schism happened and the Orthodox splintered off. They retained Apostolic Succession, however, and therefore all seven Sacraments.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch ordained and appointed by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about.
It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

The teachings of the Catholic Church contain the fullness of Divine Revelation, given by Christ to the Apostles, who gave it to their successors, the bishops, who did likewise now for about 2000 years.

 

[Peterlag]

Ignatius wasn't the first one to use the word, but the oldest surviving writing using the word was from him, as far as I can tell. The Catholic Church was the only Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Great Schism happened and the Orthodox splintered off. They retained Apostolic Succession, however, and therefore all seven Sacraments.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch ordained and appointed by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about.
It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

The teachings of the Catholic Church contain the fullness of Divine Revelation, given by Christ to the Apostles, who gave it to their successors, the bishops, who did likewise now for about 2000 years.

We both see ourselves as outside of the Church of God. You believe I'm not a member and I believe you know nothing about what Jesus Christ is about or even who he is.

 

[Augustin56]

We both see ourselves as outside of the Church of God. You believe I'm not a member and I believe you know nothing about what Jesus Christ is about or even who he is.

Well, you're completely entitled to your opinion and the freedom to express it. And, we'll have to (adamantly) agree to disagree.

That aside, Merry Christmas!

 

[Peterlag]

Well, you're completely entitled to your opinion and the freedom to express it. And, we'll have to (adamantly) agree to disagree.

That aside, Merry Christmas!

I wish the best to you as well

 

[Marymog]

There has to be a reason why folks want to keep Mary from living a normal married Jewish life with a normal Jewish husband. You must be Catholic. For some reason they want to make this normal woman into a holy God like figure. It seems evil to many.

Dear Sir,

You can't even acknowledge that the "brothers" of Jesus that you listed are not, according to Scripture, Jesus' brothers. When you can't even acknowledge something that clear and simple.....there is no need to have a conversation with you about other things. When you completely deny that Scripture says xyz when it clearly says xyz....there is no room for dialogue.

God believed Mary and Joseph were exceptional, that is why He chose them to raise His child. YOU say they were normal; Scripture says otherwise. I think Jesus would also disagree with you.

Scripture LITERALLY says that Mary is Blessed among women. That means she was ABOVE all other women. Not at that time in that moment and only when she was alive. FOREVER. You say that is normal....Scripture disagrees with you.

Also, you have a false belief that some Christians have turned Mary "into a holy God like figure". That is a lie. When you are trying to have dialogue with someone, and they insist that the conversation be predicated on their false belief.....there is no need to converse with that person. That is NOT conducive to an open and honest conversation.

Mary

 

[Peterlag]

Dear Sir,

You can't even acknowledge that the "brothers" of Jesus that you listed are not, according to Scripture, Jesus' brothers. When you can't even acknowledge something that clear and simple.....there is no need to have a conversation with you about other things. When you completely deny that Scripture says xyz when it clearly says xyz....there is no room for dialogue.

God believed Mary and Joseph were exceptional, that is why He chose them to raise His child. YOU say they were normal; Scripture says otherwise. I think Jesus would also disagree with you.

Scripture LITERALLY says that Mary is Blessed among women. That means she was ABOVE all other women. Not at that time in that moment and only when she was alive. FOREVER. You say that is normal....Scripture disagrees with you.

Also, you have a false belief that some Christians have turned Mary "into a holy God like figure". That is a lie. When you are trying to have dialogue with someone, and they insist that the conversation be predicated on their false belief.....there is no need to converse with that person. That is NOT conducive to an open and honest conversation.

Mary

I have a verse that says Mary had at least 7 kids. You say Scripture does not say that. There must be something wrong with that verse if you don't like it. And since I don't agree with you and you believe that verse is not written correctly is how I become the one who is not following the truth. I would like to learn more about this verse. Is it in the Bible or was it added later?

Matthew 13:55-56
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

 

[Marymog]

I have a verse that says Mary had at least 7 kids. You say Scripture does not say that. There must be something wrong with that verse if you don't like it. And since I don't agree with you and you believe that verse is not written correctly is how I become the one who is not following the truth. I would like to learn more about this verse. Is it in the Bible or was it added later?

Matthew 13:55-56
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

There is NO verse that says Mary has 7 kids. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. It says Jesus' brethren....just like you quoted. You ADDED to Scripture.

FACT: The ONLY child called the son of Mary in Scripture is Jesus and ONLY Jesus.

If it was as clear as you believe this debate would not be happening for the last 500 years when SOME Protestant men rejected tradition (Thessalonians 2:15) and added their opinion to Scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

There is NO verse that says Mary has 7 kids. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. It says Jesus' brethren....just like you quoted. You ADDED to Scripture.

FACT: The ONLY child called the son of Mary in Scripture is Jesus and ONLY Jesus.

If it was as clear as you believe this debate would not be happening for the last 500 years when SOME Protestant men rejected tradition (Thessalonians 2:15) and added their opinion to Scripture.

Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

His dad... Carpenter's son
His mother... Mary
1.) Brother James
2.) Brother Joses
3.) Brother Simon
4.) Brother Judas
5.) At least 2 sisters
6.) At least 2 sisters
7.) Jesus

Total = 7 kids

 

[Marymog]

Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

His dad... Carpenter's son
His mother... Mary
1.) Brother James
2.) Brother Joses
3.) Brother Simon
4.) Brother Judas
5.) At least 2 sisters
6.) At least 2 sisters
7.) Jesus

Total = 7 kids

Notice how you are unable to give ANY Scripture that says they are the children of Mary? Because it's NOT there....None the less, thank you for your opinion.

 

[Peterlag]

Notice how you are unable to give ANY Scripture that says they are the children of Mary? Because it's NOT there....None the less, thank you for your opinion.

Oh so were did he get his brothers and sisters? Were they adopted?

 

[Marymog]

Oh so were did he get his brothers and sisters? Were they adopted?

Scripture uses the word adelphos in those passages. Adelphos has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. Sure, it can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother. Since Scripture flat out says that Jesus is Mary's son we KNOW that he is. Scripture does not flat out say that the others from your list are her sons.

Also, I already accounted for some on your list and who their mother is....but you reject that sooooo I know you will reject anything I say.

Sooooo why go on with this conversation Peter?