I'm trying to better understand the Biblical definition of "torment" and found something

[Patrick1966]

What do you think of this definition?

Rich Man’s Torment – Touchstone – Mishkan Daviyd

www.mishkandaviyd.com

Luke 16:23

23And in hell (hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The Rich Man dies and is in torment. Is the torment a literal painful experience? It seems to be in the parable. However, this is a parable, so what can this torment mean? Torments is the Greek word basanos {bas’-an-os}. Basanos has a meaning that is unfamiliar to most. It actually means touchstone. The Greek dictionary defines basanos as: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal or even to question by applying torture.

A touchstone is used in an assayer’s office. It is used to determine if a rock is either gold or fools gold. The rock is struck on the touchstone, If it makes a mark, it is gold. If it does not, then it is fools gold. In other words, the touchstone proves whether something is true or false.

If one was to study the root of this word torment, they would discover that it came into use in the 1300s. During the times of the Bastille, it came to be defined as the inflicting of pain. As when one was tormented by the rack and other punishments. If one was innocent, they could die. Generally because the tormentor could not get a confession out of the individual. Their back might break, but at least they were proved innocent. That is where, this word gets the mean inflicting pain. The rack was the touchstone.

In scripture, a touchstone proves the validity of God. The Jewish religious leaders had the touchstone applied to them and there was no mark. They did not believe, so they were pictured in torment. Touchstone, the religious leaders did not leave the mark of Messiah.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What do you think of this definition?

Rich Man’s Torment – Touchstone – Mishkan Daviyd

www.mishkandaviyd.com

Luke 16:23

23And in hell (hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The Rich Man dies and is in torment. Is the torment a literal painful experience? It seems to be in the parable. However, this is a parable, so what can this torment mean? Torments is the Greek word basanos {bas’-an-os}. Basanos has a meaning that is unfamiliar to most. It actually means touchstone. The Greek dictionary defines basanos as: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal or even to question by applying torture.

A touchstone is used in an assayer’s office. It is used to determine if a rock is either gold or fools gold. The rock is struck on the touchstone, If it makes a mark, it is gold. If it does not, then it is fools gold. In other words, the touchstone proves whether something is true or false.

If one was to study the root of this word torment, they would discover that it came into use in the 1300s. During the times of the Bastille, it came to be defined as the inflicting of pain. As when one was tormented by the rack and other punishments. If one was innocent, they could die. Generally because the tormentor could not get a confession out of the individual. Their back might break, but at least they were proved innocent. That is where, this word gets the mean inflicting pain. The rack was the touchstone.

In scripture, a touchstone proves the validity of God. The Jewish religious leaders had the touchstone applied to them and there was no mark. They did not believe, so they were pictured in torment. Touchstone, the religious leaders did not leave the mark of Messiah.

This is not a parable. When Jesus begins a statement with "There was a man".... It means there literally was a man.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Uh, nah man.

Stay away from language translation if you have no training in this profession.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What do you think of this definition?

Rich Man’s Torment – Touchstone – Mishkan Daviyd

www.mishkandaviyd.com

Luke 16:23

23And in hell (hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The Rich Man dies and is in torment. Is the torment a literal painful experience? It seems to be in the parable. However, this is a parable, so what can this torment mean? Torments is the Greek word basanos {bas’-an-os}. Basanos has a meaning that is unfamiliar to most. It actually means touchstone. The Greek dictionary defines basanos as: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal or even to question by applying torture.

A touchstone is used in an assayer’s office. It is used to determine if a rock is either gold or fools gold. The rock is struck on the touchstone, If it makes a mark, it is gold. If it does not, then it is fools gold. In other words, the touchstone proves whether something is true or false.

If one was to study the root of this word torment, they would discover that it came into use in the 1300s. During the times of the Bastille, it came to be defined as the inflicting of pain. As when one was tormented by the rack and other punishments. If one was innocent, they could die. Generally because the tormentor could not get a confession out of the individual. Their back might break, but at least they were proved innocent. That is where, this word gets the mean inflicting pain. The rack was the touchstone.

In scripture, a touchstone proves the validity of God. The Jewish religious leaders had the touchstone applied to them and there was no mark. They did not believe, so they were pictured in torment. Touchstone, the religious leaders did not leave the mark of Messiah.

You need to gravitate way past concordances. They give basic definitions.

Basanos yes meant to strike a rock against the touchstone, and by usage came to mean torment and torture and grievous vexation. If you wish to make declarative statements you also need to study the etymology of the word over time and how it adapted to other usages beyond its primary definition.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What do you think of this definition?

Rich Man’s Torment – Touchstone – Mishkan Daviyd

www.mishkandaviyd.com

Luke 16:23

23And in hell (hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The Rich Man dies and is in torment. Is the torment a literal painful experience? It seems to be in the parable. However, this is a parable, so what can this torment mean? Torments is the Greek word basanos {bas’-an-os}. Basanos has a meaning that is unfamiliar to most. It actually means touchstone. The Greek dictionary defines basanos as: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal or even to question by applying torture.

A touchstone is used in an assayer’s office. It is used to determine if a rock is either gold or fools gold. The rock is struck on the touchstone, If it makes a mark, it is gold. If it does not, then it is fools gold. In other words, the touchstone proves whether something is true or false.

If one was to study the root of this word torment, they would discover that it came into use in the 1300s. During the times of the Bastille, it came to be defined as the inflicting of pain. As when one was tormented by the rack and other punishments. If one was innocent, they could die. Generally because the tormentor could not get a confession out of the individual. Their back might break, but at least they were proved innocent. That is where, this word gets the mean inflicting pain. The rack was the touchstone.

In scripture, a touchstone proves the validity of God. The Jewish religious leaders had the touchstone applied to them and there was no mark. They did not believe, so they were pictured in torment. Touchstone, the religious leaders did not leave the mark of Messiah.

That parable was about a change of the ruling class of God's people sir. Jesus denounced the haughty rulers over God's people, telling them the Kingdom would be taken from them and given to a nation producing it's fruits. On the last day of Jesus' life, he presented a new covenant to his faithful apostles, and that covenant went into force on Pentecost of the year 33 CE, the birth of the change of leadership among His people.

 

[Patrick1966]

Torments is the Greek word basanos {bas’-an-os}. Basanos has a meaning that is unfamiliar to most. It actually means touchstone. The Greek dictionary defines basanos as: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal or even to question by applying torture.

A touchstone is used in an assayer’s office. It is used to determine if a rock is either gold or fools gold. The rock is struck on the touchstone, If it makes a mark, it is gold. If it does not, then it is fools gold. In other words, the touchstone proves whether something is true or false.

Sorry that I was unclear. My point is it seems that the word "torment" as used in the Bible was actually a term of refining and testing and so people in the Lake of Fire who are being "tormented" are actually being purified rather than tortured. That's what is sounds like to me.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That parable was about a change of the ruling class of God's people sir. Jesus denounced the haughty rulers over God's people, telling them the Kingdom would be taken from them and given to a nation producing it's fruits. On the last day of Jesus' life, he presented a new covenant to his faithful apostles, and that covenant went into force on Pentecost of the year 33 CE, the birth of the change of leadership among His people.

1. It is not a parable.

2. It has nothing to do with ruling and non ruling classes.

3. the account has to do with faith in Jesus and belief in His physical resurrection. The rich ruler begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to the land of living to witness ot his kinfolk, But Abraham said if they would not listen to tthe law and the prophets, they would not listen even if one rose from the dead which is the type of Jesus being raised from death.