"In Christ" = Never ends.

[Behold]

Amen brother, and NOBODY nor ANYTHING can snatch us out of His Hand. Funny when we become truly born again, how much sin becomes more and more distasteful, we learn to hate is as He does! Who would ever want to grieve the Holy Spirit of God?? Not I. No way am I saying i am a sinless perfect person because I would be lying. It has gotten to the point that if I do or say or think something that is NOT of Him, rather than constantly "asking" His forgiveness I now say "thank you Jesus, for what you did for that sinful thought, thank you God Almighty for your forever forgiveness!!!
Good post :)

A redeemed jewish whore once came to anoint Jesus with expensive perfume, and wash His feet with her tears, and wipe them with her hair.
This really happened.
And it happened in front of a Jewish skeptic, who could only think .."why is this supposed holy man, who performs miracles,.....why is He letting a whore touch Him".

This redeemed whore, now redeemed as a Child of God, is a perfect example of what happens when a believer comes to truly understand that God's mercy is never ending, and can't be stopped or undone by our behavior.
Once we see that we can't undo what God has caused us to BE, ... we dont then see this as a license to sin, but we become like that redeemed whore....We become more in love with God, more in love with The Christ, more in love with the word, more in love with the idea of being Righteous.....= the more we understand just how secure is our redemption.... for all eternity.
That is REAL EFFECT of this revelation.

The more we understand how much we have been given, the more we Love God, and the more we want to cling to Him and Rest in His arms of Mercy.
And that is what God wants.

 

[farouk]

A redeemed jewish whore once came to anoint Jesus with expensive perfume, and wash His feet with her tears, and wipe them with her hair.
This really happened.
And it happened in front of a Jewish skeptic, who could only think .."why is this supposed holy man, who performs miracles,.....why is He letting a whore touch Him".

This redeemed whore, now redeemed as a Child of God, is a perfect example of what happens when a believer comes to truly understand that God's mercy is never ending, and can't be stopped or undone by our behavior.
Once we see that we can't undo what God has caused us to BE, ... we dont then see this as a license to sin, but we become like that redeemed whore....We become more in love with God, more in love with The Christ, more in love with the word, more in love with the idea of being Righteous.....= .the more we understand just how secure is our redemption.... for all eternity.

The more we understand how much we have been given, the more we Love God, and the more we want to cling to Him and Rest in His arms of Mercy.
And that is what God wants.

@Behold
Romans 8.38-39 are very assuring indeed to the believer.

 

[Behold]

Yes.

The sins you committed before receiving the knowledge of the truth are gone indeed (Hebrews 10:26; Romans 3:25; 2 Peter 1:9).

That is a heretics theology you are involved with.. Michiah-Imia.
The heretic wants to play self saver, so, they reduce the Cross, they reduce the Grace of God, to....>"Jesus started my salvation, and now i finish it by self effort".
Thats the Devil's Gospel.
So, that is the idea of the "only the sins before i was saved are covered, forgiven"....is a stronghold heresy that many are infected with, and those that are infected with this, want to infect others. Its their reason to exist on a forum.
You also believe that you can lose your salvation, as the heresy that control of you.......produces that mental fruit in everyone it has deceived.

Here is the reality check..
If God's Blood only deals with past sins, then get ready to burn in the lake of fire., as you can't possibly even understand what God understands regarding what He would consider all your sins, that you don't even realize is a sin you are committing.
For example, you are committing a huge one, Michiah-Imla, by publicly refuting the Work of Jesus on the Cross, by denying that what happened 2000 yrs ago on The Cross, is not currently redeeming all who trusted in Christ, into their future.
See... you have now on a public Christian Forum, abused God's Gospel, and God's Grace, by denying that the Blood of God continues to redeem all who are eternally redeemed by it.

Here is what you need to do Michiah-Imah...
You need to see yourself, as the deceived person who does this..in public.
You need to repent of this heresy.....asap.
you need to recognize those who led you into this spiritual darkness as doing the devil's work, against you.
You need to get out of this denomination and trash every single commentary that has deceived you into the dark.
Then you need to find a REAL bible believing church, that understands and teaches the ETERNAL Grace of God, as given by the mercy of God's Grace, and join it and never look back.

 

[Behold]

@Behold
Romans 8.38-39 are very assuring indeed to the believer.

Amen.

Jesus received God's judgement for ALL our sin.
This is the "cup" that Jesus was referring to, as He was entering into His "Passion".
We, the born again will never face God as Judge.......we will only meet Him, in Heaven, as DADDY.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Romans 8 encourages us to look to Him, and not within...

Precisely. Looking inwards takes our eyes off Jesus and we become self centred and I have met so many people that beat themselves up because they aren't perfect in their own eyes. Then it diminishes their walk with God.

 

[farouk]

Precisely. Looking inwards takes our eyes off Jesus and we become self centred and I have met so many people that beat themselves up because they aren't perfect in their own eyes. Then it diminishes their walk with God.

@Pearl Hebrews 12.2 also indeed exhorts: "looking unto Jesus"...

 

[Behold]

@Pearl Hebrews 12.2 also indeed exhorts: "looking unto Jesus"...

Great verse.

If we "compare scripture with scripture" to get the context, then compare

Hebrews 12:2 and Philippians 1:6 and we find that Salvation and even our Faith, is totally in the hands of, and totally controlled by and kept, by God and The Christ.

The RICHES of God's Grace, are so Rich and so Endless, and So BEAUTIFUL.

 

[farouk]

Great verse.

If we "compare scripture with scripture" to get the context, then compare

Hebrews 12:2 and Philippians 1:6 and we find that Salvation and even our Faith, is totally in the hands of, and totally controlled by and kept, by God and The Christ.

The RICHES of God's Grace, are so Rich and so Endless, and So BEAUTIFUL.

"He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ". :)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The heretic wants to play self saver,

This is not what a heretic wants to do according to the scriptures.

Heretics cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine learned from the word of God by using fair speeches and good words (Romans 16:17-18).

The word of God (Hebrews 10:26-29) tells me that if any believer sins willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for their sin, but a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that awaits the adversaries (unbelievers).

A heretic would turn away others from this hard truth and replace it with something smoother and appealing to the flesh (Isaiah 30:10).

Once Saved Always Saved fits the description of a smooth doctrine in Isaiah 30:10 perfectly.

 

[Behold]

Heretics cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine learned from the word of God .

A heretic, according to the NT, according to Jude and Paul, are "enemies of the Cross"
Now, this is a very specific situation.
Its not just a "well i think" vs 'what you think".... deal.

See, some have the false notion that Christianity is just..."well, we are all in this together trying to find out what is true, and no one really knows.." so, lets all play nice and ....................
So, that is the mindset of a spiritually darkened fool.

We live in an age where the "church" is being built on blind tolerance and social justice and ethnic rights, instead of the Cross.
Modern denominational """Christianity"" at this point, is mostly a carnal secularized spiritual religious joke, (Lukewarm SPIT) .... exactly as prophesied, and exactly as its going to continue to be, as the ever darkening Christ rejecting world is about to hit the Great Trib.

The Reality is, Jesus Himself is The TRUTH.....and if we have Him, we have The Truth, and then, there is that, which is "DOCTRINE".
And this strictly came from Jesus, through Paul to the "church".
Not to Peter, not to Jude, not to James, not to Mary, not to Biden, not to Trump, not to the Pope.
It was Paul, not one of the original 12, that Jesus appeared to, after Jesus was back in Glory.
It was Paul and only Paul who Jesus appeared to, and took him "aside" for 3 yrs, and taught him "church doctrine".
It was Paul, who was stoned to death, and went to Heaven, and was resurrected.

So, this Man, this ONE Apostle " to the GENTILES", and he is the only one of those, also......and we are in the "time of the Gentiles"...
So, do that math, Reader..
--------------------------------------------------------

Here is the reality.....when a "believer" is in opposition to Paul's Theology, then you have found your heretics, and you have found your enemy of the Cross.

The problem is, ....so few Christians understand that Paul is the ....>"follow me as i follow Christ"....example........
So few understand that its Through Paul's revelations, that you understand the Word of God and in fact Christianity and Discipleship, perfectly...... = which explains why the body of Christ is such a confused mess.
You'd think that a Christian could understand what it means when one Apostle wrote most of the New Testament, and all of the Church Doctrine.
But most dont even realizes what this means....

So...Here is how you escape becoming just one more religious heretic on a forum, or in a pulpit......

You exist in : Hebrews 13:9

And you study Paul's epistles until you can quote them sideways.

There is no other way., and you have to do this for YOURSELF.
And if you can find a good Pauline Theology teacher like me, then good for you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

if you can find a good Pauline Theology teacher like me, then good for you.

Wether it be Paul or whoever wrote the book of “Hebrews” so called, all scripture harmonizes together; for even Paul himself wrote that we should not be high minded in our faith, but fear God: Because if God didn’t spare the original people of the faith because of unbelief, neither would he spare the people grafted into the faith if they fail to continue in the goodness of the gospel (Romans 11:20-22; Colossians 1:21-23).

 

[Behold]

Wether it be Paul or whoever wrote the book of “Hebrews” so called, all scripture harmonizes together; for even Paul himself wrote that we should not be high minded in our faith, but fear God: Because if God didn’t spare the original people of the faith because of unbelief, neither would he spare the people grafted into the faith if they fail to continue in the goodness of the gospel (Romans 11:20-22; Colossians 1:21-23).

Let me share a truth with you.
Lets say you wanted to know how to spot a heretic, with 100% unfailing accuracy.
There are 2 genuine ways to do it.
One, is listen to their explanation of their Salvation.. If they in any way explain that they are having to DO anything so that God will keep them....if they explain that they are to do works to try to STAY SAVED, then you are listening to a Heretic.

#2. All Heretics.... ALL.....who use a BIBLE........Live in "Hebrews"....>"James"......and > "Matthew".

So, when you find a person who is using HEBREWS, to try to TEACH that a born again Christian, can "lose their salvation"....which means to stop being born again, then you have found a TRUE Heretic.....every single time.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There are 2 genuine ways to do it.
One, is listen to their explanation of their Salvation.. If they in any way explain that they are having to DO anything so that God will keep them....if they explain that they are to do works to try to STAY SAVED, then you are listening to a Heretic

“Genuine” according to who?

According to scripture a heretic is someone who teaches/believes contrary to the doctrines in the scriptures.

You yourself are doing this very thing. The scriptures teach that you must indeed do works to not fall from the faith (2 Peter 1:10; Colossians 1:23; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27)

Do not decide who a heretic is until you first test yourself with scripture wether or not you yourself are one.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Legalist will hair-lip hell and rant hell bent for leather trying to prove that you can go to hell while being born again.

I don't think anyone makes that argument, lol. To go to hell you either were never born again to begin with or you lost your salvation. And that argument is not important. The important argument is that you know for sure that you are saved and ready to meet Jesus when he comes back. The fools game is thinking you're saved and ready to meet Jesus just because you are sure you know the real truth about once saved always saved, all the while not really being saved for it to even matter. We know we are really saved by how we live, not by what teachings we think are true. People who don't live for Jesus have no assurance of salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lets say you wanted to know how to spot a heretic, with 100% unfailing accuracy.
There are 2 genuine ways to do it.
One, is listen to their explanation of their Salvation.. If they in any way explain that they are having to DO anything so that God will keep them....if they explain that they are to do works to try to STAY SAVED, then you are listening to a Heretic.

The heretic includes the person who lives in sin and thinks they will be saved when Jesus returns. Paul explained to the Corinthian church that the person in their church who was sinning had to stop doing that in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. The heretic says he did not have to stop sinning to be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Behold]

“Genuine” according to who?

According to Paul.

See, everything related to understanding the NT Scriptures, is based on revealed Light and Paul.

As i stated previously, all Church Doctrine comes from Paul., but even more, you have Peter's confirmation, for those of you who chase this apostle.
IN 2nd Peter......and keep in mind reader, there was no NEW TESTAMENT in existence when the Apostle were on the Earth.
So, all they had was the Old Testament., the Torah.
And even so, Peter, when talking about Paul's epistles, his letters, said they were equal to the TORAH. That Paul's letters, in his day, were not just letters......as Peter defined them as SCRIPTURE. And this means Peter was esteeming the value of Paul's letters, as EQUAL to the OLD TESTAMENT.... The Torah.
And of course we see this now, as Paul's epistles created most of the New Testament and everything that is related to understanding everything we understand, practically about the Church, the Gifts of the Spirit, or how to deal with your wife or husband, and even how to build your church and now to choose leaders.
So, certainly and obviously Paul is your NT Source for all that is needed, related to finding out how to deal with a Heretic.
And its like this. Titus 3

 

[Behold]

. Paul explained to the Corinthian church that the person in their church who was sinning had to stop doing that in order to be saved when Jesus comes back..

Actually you made that up.

That is just your self righteous misguided idea regarding an issue that happened in the Corinth Body, regarding a young man who was fornicating.
Paul never told him, or anyone else, that they had to "stop sinning" or they would not go to heaven.
You will tell people that because you are a legalist who thinks you have to be a good boy to stay saved.
All Legalist think just like you think. All Legalist worry about sin and confessing and repenting, to try to keep themselves from going to Hell.

So, i won't say you are lying, i'll just point out that you are clueless, regarding what you are trying to believe.
You are clueless, or ignorant of the truth, regarding what you believe, because the people who taught you are even worse.
What you need to do, is leave all that, and find God's Grace, and the Light of this Revelation.
I could help you, but you are too certain of your own pride to be helped at this point, by me.

The Reality is, the fact that this young man was invited back into the church, after being a "willful fornicator", who was doing this after he was born again, YET was not LOST..... HE did not lose his salvation, which is absolute proof that "sinning willfully" does not cause you to lose your salvation.
In fact, sinning or not sinning, is not actually related to SALVATION....but its related to Discipleship.
And the newbie Christian, or the Novice, or the Theological pretender, has no idea that Salvation and Discipleship are not the same thing.

 

[Behold]

I don't think anyone makes that argument, lol. To go to hell you either were never born again to begin with or you lost your salvation.

Only someone who is "fallen from Grace" and has become a Legalist, believes they can lose their salvation.
IN fact the way you SPOT a heretic, is when they teach or confess that they or any believer can lose salvation.
All heretics believe they can "lose it".
All heretics are "fallen from Grace".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Actually you made that up.

No, I didn't make it up, lol. It says it right here....

1 Corinthians 5:5
5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

This man's flesh must be crucified SO THAT he will be saved on the day of the Lord. Your teaching say he can continue to flagrantly sin and he will still be saved when Jesus comes back. And the Greek 'may' signifies the potential that turning him over to satan will succeed in bringing him to repentance, not the certainty that it will succeed. He may or may not repent of his flagrant sin. But he has too in order to be saved when Jesus comes back.

That is just your self righteous misguided idea regarding an issue that happened in the Corinth Body, regarding a young man who was fornicating.
Paul never told him, or anyone else, that they had to "stop sinning" or they would not go to heaven.

Paul plainly said he had to be turned over to satan for the crucifixion of his flesh SO THAT he MAY (might) be saved when Jesus comes back. It's right there in black and white. So, if you are sure the requirement for a Christian to not be living in flagrant, purposeful sin when Jesus comes back is a misguided self righteous idea then we have to conclude that Paul taught self righteous, legalistic repentance. Or we can understand that living in willful, flagrant sin is the sign of unbelief and that's why the flagrantly sinning person won't be saved when Jesus comes back. It doesn't even matter if he ever really believed or fell away from genuine faith. The point is his flagrant, willful sin shows he does not at this moment believe in Christ and will therefore not be saved when Jesus comes back while in this state of unbelief.

You will tell people that because you are a legalist who thinks you have to be a good boy to stay saved.
All Legalist think just like you think. All Legalist worry about sin and confessing and repenting, to try to keep themselves from going to Hell.

No, lol. What you're not seeing is you have to be believing to be saved when Jesus comes back. Flagrant, willful, purposeful sin is turning your back on Jesus in unbelief. You won't be saved when Jesus comes back if you are in that state of unbelief when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with your good works somehow earning your salvation when Jesus comes back. It has everything to do with your sinful life showing that you don't care about or trust or believe in God's forgiveness of sin.

So, i won't say you are lying, i'll just point out that you are clueless, regarding what you are trying to believe.

I'm just going by what Paul said. You have to stop living in flagrant, willful, purposeful sin in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. Flagrant, willful sin is the sign of a rejection of God's forgiveness in Christ. Unbelievers don't get to be saved when Jesus comes back.

You are clueless, or ignorant of the truth, regarding what you believe, because the people who taught you are even worse.

Paul taught me.

What you need to do, is leave all that, and find God's Grace, and the Light of this Revelation.

The sign that one has found God's grace is that they are not living in flagrant, willful, purposeful sin. See, you have it backwards. Ultimately, willful unrepentant sin is the sign that you do not have God's grace in salvation. You say it means you're relying on God's grace alone and not trying to legalistically earn your salvation. It doesn't even matter if the willful sinner ever had God's grace or not. The point is the willful sinner does not have it now and therefore will not be saved when Jesus comes back. He must repent and be believing to be saved when Jesus comes back.

I could help you, but you are too certain of your own pride to be helped at this point, by me.

I'm not the one that needs help. I'm not living in flagrant, willful sin. Nor do I mislead people into thinking they can do that and still be saved when Jesus comes back. You are the one who is certain of your own pride to be helped at this point. You've set yourself up as a teacher in the church and as a result you can now never admit you've been wrong about anything. I feel sorry for you. I see this all the time among teachers and preachers in the church. Come down from your high horse and learn with the rest of us. It's okay. Teachers can get it wrong sometimes too.

The Reality is, the fact that this young man was invited back into the church, after being a "willful fornicator", who was doing this after he was born again, YET was not LOST..... HE did not lose his salvation, which is absolute proof that "sinning willfully" does not cause you to lose your salvation.

Who said he lost his salvation? Who said he never had it to begin with? The point you're missing is this man had to repent of his sin or he would not be saved when Jesus comes back. We know in this case he did repent. Your teaching says he did not have to repent to be saved when Jesus comes back. You teach heresy. You are an heretic.

In fact, sinning or not sinning, is not actually related to SALVATION....but its related to Discipleship.

Sinning or not sinning is related to salvation in that it shows if you are born again or not. Willful, flagrant sinners show by their sinning they are in unbelief, and so they will not be saved when Jesus returns.

And the newbie Christian, or the Novice, or the Theological pretender, has no idea that Salvation and Discipleship are not the same thing.

The newbie, the novice, and the theological pretender do not know that willful sin is the sign of unbelief, and that's why the willful sinner won't be saved when Jesus comes back.

1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Repentance is the sign of the believing person. Purposely living in sin shows you are not believing in Christ. You have nothing to look forward to but the condemnation of the enemies of God. God's grace does not cover the rejection of God's grace.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Only someone who is "fallen from Grace" and has become a Legalist, believes they can lose their salvation.
IN fact the way you SPOT a heretic, is when they teach or confess that they or any believer can lose salvation.
All heretics believe they can "lose it".
All heretics are "fallen from Grace".

Who cares about the once saves always saved argument? I'm not addressing that worthless argument. What matters is that you are believing in Christ when he comes back. It doesn't matter if you can lose it or not. What matters is that you are believing when Christ comes back or you're going to go to the lake of fire as an unbeliever. How we live is how we an tell if we are believing in Christ. Purposely, flagrantly, willfully living in sin ultimately shows that we are not believing in Christ and that we are not ready to meet him when he comes back.