"In Christ" = Never ends.

[marks]

If you are in Christ, and yet you commit a sin, do you remain in Christ?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok, so basically you are talking about the true Christian, and the nominal Christian?

I am suggesting that ultimately the willfully sinning 'Christian' is doing so from a position of the absence of trust in Christ. Whether he ever really trusted in Christ or not is irrelevant since he's going to hell either way. We need to focus on what matters. What does it matter to settle the issue of if you can lose your salvation or not if you're in unbelief anyway.

 

[marks]

I am suggesting that ultimately the willfully sinning 'Christian' is doing so from a position of the absence of trust in Christ. Whether he ever really trusted in Christ or not is irrelevant since he's going to hell either way. We need to focus on what matters. What does it matter to settle the issue of if you can lose your salvation or not if you're in unbelief anyway.

It's truth that sets you free.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am suggesting that ultimately the willfully sinning 'Christian' is doing so from a position of the absence of trust in Christ. Whether he ever really trusted in Christ or not is irrelevant since he's going to hell either way. We need to focus on what matters. What does it matter to settle the issue of if you can lose your salvation or not if you're in unbelief anyway.

So you've settled the matter in your own mind, that the true Christian may yet become condemned to eternal destrustion, the born again dying again.

To my understanding, this is the sort of thinking that works against our walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you are in Christ, and yet you commit a sin, do you remain in Christ?

Much love!

If you're sinning as part of the expected struggle with sin that every believer has then, yes, you remain in Christ. If you're sinning because you just want to and don't care about believing in and trusting in Christ then, no, you do not remain in Christ (or you were never really in Christ to begin with, take your pick, doesn't matter because the outcome is the same).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you've settled the matter in your own mind, that the true Christian may yet become condemned to eternal destrustion, the born again dying again.

I haven't said either way. I just know that willful, purposeful sinning is the realm of the unbeliever. And unbelievers do not inherit eternal life. Only believing people do. Unbelief condemns a person to hell regardless of whether or not it's true that a true believer can go back to unbelief or not. The point is they are in unbelief. Unbelievers aren't saved. End of story. What one thinks about once saved always saved doesn't change that.

To my understanding, this is the sort of thinking that works against our walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

Thinking you can willfully sin and be saved when Jesus comes back is what wars against walking in the Spirit. We need to talk about what matters, not about what doesn't matter. And what matters is that you are believing in Christ when he returns. And believing is signified by walking in the Spirit, not by willfully sinning without a care or thought for the grace of God. Christ rejecters on their way to hell are the ones who willfully sin in open contempt of God's grace, not believers.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's truth that sets you free.

Much love!

John 8:31-32
“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

See how that excludes the person who does not hold to Jesus' teaching? People who don't hold to Jesus' teaching don't know the truth and are not set free by that truth. They are condemned unbelievers.

 

[marks]

If you're sinning as part of the expected struggle with sin that every believer has then, yes, you remain in Christ. If you're sinning because you just want to and don't care about believing in and trusting in Christ then, no, you do not remain in Christ (or you were never really in Christ to begin with, take your pick, doesn't matter because the outcome is the same).

For myself, I've become pretty convinced from the Bible that the born again never do die again.

Just the thought that you may "die again" if you don't "act right" creates problems for us, I think. To the unbeliever, I agree, these questions are academic if that.

But for the believer, how we answer these questions can determine whether we will have that endless struggle against our flesh, thinking that we have to, or whether we can relax in trust in Jesus, and in so doing find real sanctification.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I haven't said either way. I just know that willful, purposeful sinning is the realm of the unbeliever. And unbelievers do not inherit eternal life. Only believing people do. Unbelief condemns a person to hell regardless of whether or not it's true that a true believer can go back to unbelief or not. The point is they are in unbelief. Unbelievers aren't saved. End of story. What one thinks about once saved always saved doesn't change that.

OK, I understand.

I don't think of any sins I commit as not being wilfull. I've had this discussion before with others. I think that we, as Christians, have the choice over whether we sin or not. Before, we did not. Sinners sin.

All that is not of faith is sin. So if we are sinning we are not acting from our trust in Jesus. An example, I can trust Jesus for my weekly budget, or I can choose to be afraid, not trusting. But is this really the same thing as trusting Him for eternal life, through His death and resurrection? And being born a spirit child of God?

I look at the teachings of the renewing of the mind, and I've come to see this as that our minds will often continue in the way of the flesh, and they need to be retrained according to Christ's mind. We learn to take our thoughts captive so they serve Jesus, and everything else falls right into place.

It can be a shorter or longer process depending on who you are, I think. Those who perceive themselves as being "ahead" of others, maybe that's not true in God's eyes.

But anyone who is acting in their flesh mind, not having renewed it within that moment, may do any of those things that they don't really want to do, not realizing how completely free they really are. Be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 8:31-32
“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

See how that excludes the person who does not hold to Jesus' teaching? People who don't hold to Jesus' teaching don't know the truth and are not set free by that truth. They are condemned unbelievers.

I'm seeing two commandmants we are given by Jesus, to believe in Him, and to love each other. Are we on the same page?

Much love!

 

[marks]

And what matters is that you are believing in Christ when he returns.

Personally I think that beneath this is something more meaningful, whether you have trusted in Jesus and been born of God, now indwelt by your Faithful Creator, Who has promised you to solve and fix all that needs solving and fixing, and has started by uniting you to Himself, and in so doing, gives you eternal life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 8:31-32
“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

See how that excludes the person who does not hold to Jesus' teaching? People who don't hold to Jesus' teaching don't know the truth and are not set free by that truth. They are condemned unbelievers.

One thing I'll add to this . . . to really understand God's truth, according to Hebrews 5:14, we need to use what we know so we can come to know more.

I like 2 Corinthians 3:18 in the same way, we behold as in a mirror the Lord's glory, which transforms us into the same image. There's only one way we reflect the glory of the Lord. That's to trust Him, which releases us to the work of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit completes His work in us, and we shine! And we 'see' it, and learn that God's way is the good way, we love His way, and we become aware that this is who we are, the children of God, sharing His nature.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For myself, I've become pretty convinced from the Bible that the born again never do die again.

That's fine, either way. What counts is that you understand that purposely sinning is the sign that you aren't relying on and trusting in the blood of Christ for salvation. The person in those circumstances doesn't believe for it to even matter. And what they think about it doesn't change the fact they are not trusting in God for salvation and will go to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. It's a rather meaningless question to answer. What matters is that you are believing in God's forgiveness.

Just the thought that you may "die again" if you don't "act right" creates problems for us, I think.

It creates a problem if you can only think that 'acting right' means you trying to earn your own salvation. And that is how most in the church view good works. But when you understand that 'acting right' is the expression of your faith in God's forgiveness you understand your behavior to be the litmus test of your faith in and appreciation for that forgiveness.

To the unbeliever, I agree, these questions are academic if that.

And that's precisely the point. If you're living comfortably in the same life you supposedly got saved from then you have not received the grace of God you think you have and the questions about once saved always saved are utterly meaningless. The answer to that question doesn't change the fact that you are not trusting in God and are lost.

But for the believer, how we answer these questions can determine whether we will have that endless struggle against our flesh, thinking that we have to, or whether we can relax in trust in Jesus, and in so doing find real sanctification.

Sounds good, but that's not how it works. Your seemingly endless struggle with sin ends when your appreciation for God's forgiveness fills your heart with love for him, and with care for other people enough to not want to hurt them.

 

[marks]

But when you understand that 'acting right' is the expression of your faith in God's forgiveness you understand your behavior to be the litmus test of your faith in and appreciation for God's forgiveness.

Who then is the judge of your behavior?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Who then is the judge of your behavior?

Much love!

The simple answer is the word of God. There are long passages of scripture that talk about what obedience to God looks like and what disobedience to God looks like.

 

[marks]

Sounds good, but that's not how it works. Your seemingly endless struggle with sin ends when your appreciation for God's forgiveness fills your heart with love for him, and with care for other people enough to not want to hurt them.

Those things come with the trust.

The fruit of the Spirit just blossoms!

People can be pretty messed up in a lot of ways, damaged by DNA, damaged by abuse, damaged by bad choices with terrible consequences, like drug addictions. These things can profoundly affect the state of the mind, including the sorts of thoughts that parade through to the emotions we feel, cravings and drives, all sorts of things.

By trusting in the finished work of Christ, by trusting in the grace of God, we stand, transcending all those damages.

Lack of appreciation for God IS sin. Unloving to others likewise IS sin. You are saying that we can stop struggling with sin when we stop sinning. I'm saying that when we look to Jesus and not ourselves, we find victory.

Much love!

 

[WaterSong]

Here is the thing, Reader.... there is no ending being born again.

You can never stop it. You can't end God's BIRTH, inside a Believer's Spirit.
Legalist will hair-lip hell and rant hell bent for leather trying to prove that you can go to hell while being born again.
This proves that God's Salvation does not keep some people from being total fools, unable to let go of their self righteousness.

The Devil's lie, one of them, is that you can stop being Born again... (lose your salvation)
Millions of believers are conned and spiritually darkened inside, because they have been deceived by the Father of Lies.

Here is the reality...
Our sin is on Christ, and He died, and its Gone.
We are no longer under the same spiritual dominion, that USE TO factually declare our sin as "sin".
If you want that one, then go back into the Old Testament and DIE THERE, as that is where the Law had dominion.
The NEW Testament, has resolved this "dominion of the Law", deathtrap.
Now, we are delivered from the LAW, and INTO GRACE.
THis Grace, is our new Dominion. Its new rules, its new titles.

Under the law we were a sinner.
Under Grace we are a Saint and a SON.
Under the Law we were DAMNED.
Under Grace we are a "new Creation", "ONE" With God, and HAVE NOW ETERNAL LIFE.

Paul RE-DEFINES what use to be known under the law as SIN<= as "works of the Flesh".

Why? because our FLESH is our DEAD old Adamic MAN, that our New Creation Born again SPIRIT< is STUCK inside, till we get a New Body.
So, our old man, was dealt with on the Cross.
WE are NOT the Old Man any longer, we are "new creations IN CHRIST">
We are IN HIM.
INSIDE HIM and GOD, Spiritually, Born again INTO GOD's SPIRIT.... and they= are IN our "born again" "new Creation". (inside us).

So, that is were we exist now, and that place is "incorruptible" and is not affected by what deeds we do, that are carnally committed.
We are IN The Kingdom of God....Spiritually Born again INTO IT< and there is no SIN THERE....and that is where we EXIST.

Roman's 4:8 does not say you wont sin, it says that what use to be sin, is no longer charged to you, when you do it.
Why not?
Because GOD's Son, has been KILLED for them ALL.

That is God's Grace. Its our Redemption...... Its GOD's GIFT to us, = Salvation.

And why does this reality NOT CAUSE you to sin more? While if you think you are a sinner, you WILL sin more.

Well, that is Spiritual Reality, and it does not PLAY WELL inside a self righteous's person's Carnal Mind.
The carnal minded self righteous Legalist, hears that their sin is gone, Judgement is gone, and they think...."oh, that can't be right, as that will cause a person to SIN MORE".
And this Devil's FOOL, is the one that is sinning and confessing and repenting, found writing Threads about OSAS.... who can't believe that the Grace of God, when understood correctly, is not A LICENSE TO SIN......ITS THE POWER TO STOP SINNING.
But until you come into RIGHT BELIEVING about this, and get this REVELATION.....the self righteous will ALL continue to sin, confess, repent, and not be able to stop, while continuing to rant like professional ranters, about "osas".

"And I give them eternal life, and never shall they perish to the age, and never will anyone seize them out of My hand."
Amen, and Amen!

 

[marks]

The simple answer is the word of God. There are long passages of scripture that talk about what obedience to God looks like and what disobedience to God looks like.

We all do very well to know the Scriptures that God will minister to each of our hearts through them.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The simple answer is the word of God. There are long passages of scripture that talk about what obedience to God looks like and what disobedience to God looks like.

Some people think they are!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think that we, as Christians, have the choice over whether we sin or not. Before, we did not. Sinners sin.

Christians do have the choice. What they don't have in the beginning is the maturity to always make the right choice. Growing Christians who love God and appreciate the forgiveness they have received are learning how to use the power of God to make right choices when tempted by sin. That's in contrast to the person who isn't struggling with any choices between good and evil and is purposely living in sin thinking he's going to be saved when Jesus comes back because salvation is not by works. They have a rude awakening coming. They do not know that faith and good works go hand in glove.