In Daniel 8, 11, and 12, is A4E meant? Or is a future anti-christ meant?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Misquote. I never said “immediately” to mean minutes or hours later

That is the impression you gave. How about trying to be more clear then?

— I’m following Daniel’s 7+62+1 structure. Christ’s public ministry belongs to the 62 weeks;

What? Where do you get that nonsense from? The 62 weeks follow the 7 weeks relating to the command to rebuild and restore Jersusalem which happened long ago.

His death ends the 69th week and begins the 70th week — the one-week covenant confirmation Daniel described. Show where your chronology puts His death without bending Daniel’s count.

LOL. His death does not end the 69th week and begin the 70th week. Where do you come up with your nonsense? Only your imagination, apparently. It says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week. Hello? You are BLATANTLY TWISTING scripture to make it say what you want it to say. You are denying that He was cut off some time AFTER the end of the 69th week just like some dispensationalists do. Sad.

Then you’ve already agreed to most of my point. The difference is precision: Christ’s ministry fits inside the 62 weeks

LOL. I am not saying anything anywhere near anything like this nonsense. His ministry is what began the 70th week and does not fit inside the 62 weeks. What a joke. You have so many doctrines all to yourself or almost all to yourself. You need to ask God for wisdom so you stop believing such extreme nonsense like this (James 1:5-7).

, His death ends the 69th, and that death inaugurates the 70th week.

This is an absolute blatant twisting of the text. It says His death would be AFTER the 69th week, not at the end of it. Do you not know what the word "after" means? This is just unbelievable. I can't take you seriously. You can't even understand the most simple things. I'm almost at the point of considering you to be hopeless as it relates to understanding eschatology and soteriology, but I won't go there just yet.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I knew that your doctrine of Daniel 9:24-27 because of this: Daniel’s “people” in 9:24 are not limited to the ethnic Jews under the Old Covenant. In Christ, all saints — Old Testament and New Testament — make up the true “Congregation of Israel” (Galatians 3:29, Romans 9:6–8). That includes every believer, Jew and Gentile, united in Him. The “holy city” in Daniel 9:24 is not a strip of land in the Middle East but the New Jerusalem — the Bride of Christ — described in Revelation 21. Limiting Daniel’s prophecy to the destruction of physical Jerusalem and a temple of stone misses the reality that the old physical types gave way to the eternal spiritual reality in Christ.



If we’re both Amillennial, then we agree the “symbolic thousand years” is the present Gospel age — but here’s the connection you’re missing: that “thousand years” is indeed the final covenant week of Daniel’s prophecy, the 70th week! In it, Christ confirms the covenant with “Daniel’s people” — not national Israel, but all who are in Him, the true Israel of God (Galatians 6:16). The prophecy is about Christ’s redemptive work for His Bride, not about a geopolitical nation. Once you see that the “holy city” is the Church, the Bride (Revelation 21), the pieces fit: the covenant week is the Gospel age in which the elect are gathered, not an isolated moment in Jewish history.

Dude. Look at my post again and see who I was talking to. It wasn't you. I was talking to Earburner. LOL. You never tire of embarrassing yourself for some reason. I have no interest in responding to what you said here since you're just repeating your normal script that I've already addressed multiple times and you replied to me by mistake, anyway.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I am still trying figure how it is that you mean the 2300 days/(years?) clock BEGAN ticking when God made the covenant with Noah.

The 2300 days in Daniel has absolutely nothing to do with Noah.
Approx. 523 BC.- KJV Daniel 8
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give BOTH the [temple] sanctuary and the host [army of Israel] to be trodden under foot?

[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred [2300] Days; THEN [by Judas Maccabeus] shall the sanctuary be cleansed [restored].

Daniel 8:13-14 is related to Revelation 11:1-2.
Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This is not the measuring of a literal building, but the BODY OF CHRIST making up of host of True Elect. Anyone outside of Christ, is not Holy, Righteous, or Priests unto God, ie. the professed believers, and therefore cannot be measured part of the Temple. The court "outside" of the Temple's dimensions symbolize the place of those who externally or covenantally link themselvs with Christ (ie. professed themselves Christians) but who are not truly raised up in Christ. In other words, they have joined the external covenant Church, saying they are part of the Holy Temple, but they have not truly entered therein. This is a covenant relationship lesson for @Spiritual Israelite too!

Now here is the lesson: This court is given to the Gentiles and the Holy City they will tread under foot for forty two months. The Holy City in this context symbolizes the body of believers. It is the spiritual city or collective population made Holy by Christ abiding in the midst of them. The Gentiles are synonymous with the heathen, or those who are not true Jews[7] and are opposed to God that they come against the body. Anyone who becomes a Christian is spoken of as having come into Holy Israel. For example, in Romans chapter eleven, Covenant Israel is 'symbolized' as an olive tree, and the Gentiles or heathen people as a wild olive tree (the unsaved nations). Those chosen of God are broken off from the Gentile tree, and are grafted into the Covenant tree, Israel (Romans 11:19). They have spiritually become Jews, and in God's sight a living part of the New Covenant with Israel. When we are risen in Christ, born from above of God, we are no longer considered Gentiles.

Eph 2:11-13
(11) Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Gentiles in this context is 'spiritually' synonymous with unbelievers - yes those who are outside the CHURCH, ie. the unsaved world. Spiritually we all were Gentiles before we are Christian, aliens (non citizens) and strangers apart from God's Covenant with Israel. But after we are born of the Son of God (the true Israel), spiritually we are no longer Gentiles, but Jews, and as such, sons of God and heirs according to the Covenant promises to Israel. That is the picture painted in Romans eleven of Gentiles leaving their natural tree and being grafted into Covenant Israel (Olive Tree). To deny this is to deny scripture, for unambiguously the branches symbolizing Gentiles move from the wild tree to the Covenant Israel tree. And in fact, God has always made it clear that He will define who Israel is, who the Jews are, and who the Gentiles are. Man's definitions or interpretations cannot circumvent Biblical declarations and definitions.

A Jew is spiritually a Gentile without Christ, and a Gentile is spiritually a Jew with Christ. The body of Christ is spiritually the Israel of God and that is why Revelation chapter eleven speaks of the court of the Temple being given to the Gentiles and is not to be measured. It is to illustrate the heathen or unsaved of the nations of the world coming into the external congregation of God via the unfaithful (the Court), to trample the Holy City under foot. Because those of the court are professing Christians who depart from the faith and are given into the hands of the Gentiles because of their unrighteousness. This is done 'by God' as judgment for their spiritual fornication against their espoused Husband, Christ. For it is written, judgment must begin at the House of God (1st Peter 4:17). God will first judge the unfaithful house for their unrighteousness and unwillingness to receive the love of the truth of His Word, and then the wicked. The prophesy of the Apostasy (separating) from God spoken about in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 illustrates this judgement. God says that there is to be a great falling away or forsaking God by those who would not receive truth. These are those symbolized as being the court or those outside the true Temple, who the Gentiles will deceive that they fall away from the faith (1st Timothy 4:1). They are those who did not make their calling and election sure, and God tells us very clearly not only what He will do to them, but 'why' He will do it.

2Th 2:11-12
(11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It was for this reason that God will send them strong delusion. When the man of sin takes a seat in the Holy Temple, God takes full responsibility for sending the people this delusion that they believe these false teachings and are damned and judged for their unrighteousness. These are those that attempt to build a house themselves, rather than let God be it's builder. It is people who only profess to be of God. It is not the people of the world who have no interest in God. They could care less about either the true Christ or a false Christ. In fact, they don't want any part of Him. But it's those of the Church who are going to be deceived by false teachers who come in Christ's name that many fall away from God. Their deceit and unfaithfulness is the reason that they cannot be measured. Jesus Himself warned us about the time of Great tribulation saying there would be such great deception going on that it would even deceive the very Elect if that were possible (Matthew 24:24), and that we should be not deceived. For those in Christ it is not possible to be deceived unto falling, because they are those truly inside the Holy Temple who keep the Word of God faithfully so that (of the Spirit) they know lies and deception when they hear it. Because they 'measure' it by the rule of faith, the rod of correction, and compare it against the true form, the true house of God. This is the evidence of our really knowing God, and of our true Salvation (1st John 2:3-5). Our true authority is 'Sola Scriptura,' the Word of God alone, and considered as a whole. After the judgment is finished, the sanctuary will be cleansed at the Second Coming.

This is what Daniel 8:13-14 referred to!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Dude. Look at my post again and see who I was talking to. It wasn't you. I was talking to Earburner.

So? I’m free to address your flawed message for the benefit of future readers who will compare it with mine and see the difference. You and Earburner are both wrong, and the record should reflect that.

You never tire of embarrassing yourself for some reason.

Not at all.

I have no interest in responding to what you said here since you're just repeating your normal script that I've already addressed multiple times and you replied to me by mistake, anyway.

Not a mistake — entirely on purpose, and for good reason. I don’t need your permission to respond, and nothing in your replies actually refutes anything I’ve said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So?

So, you thought I was talking to you and I wasn't. Just shows yet again your lack of attention to detail.

I can respond to your flawed message, so future readers can read my responses. Both of you and Earburner are wrong anyway.

Yet, you did NOTHING to refute what we said. At least, not what I said. I'm not sure what he said that you're referring to exactly.

Not by mistake. It's on purpose and for a good reason. Deal with it. :-)

LOL. You clearly thought I was talking to you there, so why are you being so dishonest about it? You said to me in response to what I said to Earburner: "If we're both Amillennial....". So, when you said "we" you were referring to you and me. But, I was not talking to you and was talking to Earburner when I said we are both Amillennial. So, yes, you obviously did make a mistake in thinking I was talking to you and there's no reason for you to lie about it. Just own up to it. It's not a big deal. I just used it as an excuse to make light of you being wrong yet again about something.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. You clearly thought I was talking to you there, so why are you being so dishonest about it? You said to me in response to what I said to Earburner: "If we're both Amillennial....". So, when you said "we" you were referring to you and me. But, I was not talking to you and was talking to Earburner when I said we are both Amillennial. So, yes, you obviously did make a mistake in thinking I was talking to you and it's pointless to lie about it.

We are ALL amillennialists, yet I am the true amillennialist when you two aren't, especially when you guys are playing around with the false doctrine of preterism as far as 70AD and the fullfillment of Daniel 9:24-27 are concerned.

 

[Davidpt]

Plenty of Jews have believed in Jesus as their Messiah over the past almost 2,000 years, including 3,000 alone who put their faith in Christ and were saved on the day of Pentecost alone. You are misinterpreting that verse. What Jesus was saying there is that they would not see Him again until they appear before Him on the day of judgment and bow down to Him while confessing that He is Lord.

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


I'm not saying @Douggg is correct about that verse, but it's a no brainer you are not correct about that verse for certain. The first thing to note is this. Per this part---Ye shall not see me henceforth--Jesus used the Greek word eido rather than optanomai for the word rendered 'see'. Unlike in Matthew 24:30, for instance, where He used optanomai rather than eido for the word rendered 'see'. It seems rather odd, in both you and @Douggg case, that if a literal bodily present is meant, that He would use the Greek word eido rather than optanomai. Therefore, IMO, a literal bodily presense is not meant in that verse. Jesus is applying it spiritually and that it is meaning between the time He bodily goes away and then bodily returns. IOW, the past 2000 years and counting. But let's just apply everything in the Discourse and leading up to it, in the literal sense. Why not? Some of you already do it with Matthew 24:15-21, for instance.

Maybe it's just me, but when I read a ch such as Matthew 23, I discern that Jesus is mainly focusing on their spiritual condition, not what might happen to them in 70 AD, though some of what He said might pertain to that. But certainly not the majority of what He said in Ch 23 would be pertaining to what eventually happened in 70 AD. For example---verse 33--Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Should we interpret that to mean this instead? Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of 70 AD? Surely not.

And what about the following in ch 23? What does any of that have to do with what happened in 70 AD? But instead of me pasting all those verses, I'm mainly meaning verses 2-28 in this case.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are ALL amillennialists, yet I am the true amillennialist when you two aren't,

especially when you guys are playing around with the false doctrine of preterism as far as 70AD and the fullfillment of Daniel 9:24-27 are concerned.

Uh huh. I disagree with a vast majority of what those who call themselves preterists believe, but you just can't handle it that I agree with them on this one thing, as if that has anything to do with whether someone is an amillennialist or not. And, of course, you make up this imaginary "true amillennialist" term for no reason because you think you are the only one in the world who believes the truth due to your extreme arrogance.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Uh huh. I disagree with a vast majority of what those who call themselves preterists believe,

I can see that. It was entertaining! You’re doubling down on that flawed doctrine of yours by chopping the Olivet Discourse into two events. Bold and… original. Meanwhile, you’re the one confidently spreading the falsehood that ‘All partial preterists are amillennialists.’ Talk about irony. LOL.

And, of course, you make up this imaginary "true amillennialist" term for no reason because you think you are the only one in the world who believes the truth due to your extreme arrogance.

Well... the Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


I'm not saying @Douggg is correct about that verse,

It's never a good idea to say he is correct about any verse.

but it's a no brainer you are not correct about that verse for certain.

LOL. You saying this means less than nothing to me. Almost every time you say something like this you proceed to do NOTHING convincing to back it up.

The first thing to note is this. Per this part---Ye shall not see me henceforth--Jesus used the Greek word eido rather than optanomai for the word rendered 'see'.

Stop right there. Where are you getting this from? I use Blue Letter Bible (blueletterbible.org) as my usual Greek reference and it shows that the word "see" there is translated from the Greek word "horaō".

Unlike in Matthew 24:30, for instance, where He used optanomai rather than eido for the word rendered 'see'. It seems rather odd, in both you and @Douggg case, that if a literal bodily present is meant, that He would use the Greek word eido rather than optanomai.

The Greek word horaō can refer to seeing something physically, so this is not a convincing argument that you're making here.

Therefore, IMO, a literal bodily presense is not meant in that verse. Jesus is applying it spiritually and that it is meaning between the time He bodily goes away and then bodily returns. IOW, the past 2000 years and counting.

You're missing one very important detail here. He said they would not see Him anymore or again until they said blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. That means they would see Him again in a way that they had already seen Him and the only way that the scribes and Pharisees that He was talking to there saw Him was physically. So, I would like to take this opportunity to throw your words back at you by saying this is a no brainer that you are not correct about that verse for certain.

But let's just apply everything in the Discourse and leading up to it, in the literal sense. Why not? Some of you already do it with Matthew 24:15-21, for instance.

Let's just not take context into account like you frequently do? Is that a good idea? No, I don't think so. Jesus was talking about them seeing Him again in the future in the way they had seen Him up to that point, which was only phyisically.

Maybe it's just me, but when I read a ch such as Matthew 23, I discern that Jesus is mainly focusing on their spiritual condition, not what might happen to them in 70 AD, though some of what He said might pertain to that.

That's what I see as well, but what does that have to do with Matthew 23:39? He knew it was close to the time when He would be crucified, so He knew the unbelieving scribes and Pharisees would soon not be physically seeing Him again for a long time. He only appeared to believers after His resurrection. The reason that none of them would see Him again any time soon was because of their spiritual condition that He ranted about just previous to that. Otherwise, if they believed in Him instead, He surely would have appeared to at least some of them after His resurrection.

But certainly not the majority of what He said in Ch 23 would be pertaining to what eventually happened in 70 AD. For example---verse 33--Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Should we interpret that to mean this instead? Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of 70 AD? Surely not.

LOL. What is your point here? What does this have to do with verse 39, which I did not say had anything to do with 70 AD? Why are you even bringing 70 AD into this when it has nothing to do with verse 39 or with anything I said?

And what about the following? What does any of that have to do with what happened in 70 AD? But instead of me pasting all those verses, I'm mainly meaning verses 2-28 in this case.

LOL. What in the world made you start going on about 70 AD when that has nothing to do with what we're talking about? Are you thinking I'm saying they saw Him again in 70 AD or something? You did read what I said, didn't you? I'm saying they would see Him again in the future from now at the judgment when they will be bowing before Him and confessing that He is Lord.

 

[Earburner]

Let's asume the 70 weeks were fulfilled without any gaps. According to Daniel 9:24 one of the things that have to be brought in once the 70 weeks have concluded is everlasting righteousness. Obviously, everlasting righteousness can't logically fit within an age that is finite, such as the age we are currently in.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Assuming the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled, when do you suppose Peter said this? Before the 70 weeks were fulfilled or after they were fulfilled? Before you answer that, it would be absurd to disagree that the new heavens and a new earth equal everlasting, therefore, the righteousness being described in this verse has to be everlasting righteousness. And that Peter was still looking for it in the future, not something already present when he spoke these words.

But how does anyone even reason with mindsets such as yours? Your doctrinal bias' won't allow anyone to reason with you. In your mind your doctrinal bias' trump everything, even the real truth, whatever that might be in any particular case. You might agrue I have no room to talk, yet that is not relevant in this case. Maybe other cases it might be relevant, but not in this case, though. In this case the real truth is this---this is how the 70 weeks end--and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No wonder Peter was still looking for everlasting righteousness to be brought in, in the future, because in the meantime there is still this to finish--and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. No way in a million years does any of that resemble everlasting righteousness having already been brought in before the last half of verse 27 is fulfilled first.

It is pretty silly, IMO, for anyone to insist that none of this can fit the 42 month reign of the beast in the end of this age--and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. That it can only fit 70 AD, lol. But even if it could, which it can't, but if it could, it still places a gap between this---and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---and this---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Granted, none of you are arguing against a gap between those events. That's not the issue, though. The issue is this. All of verse 27 is pertaining to the 70th week, the same way, for example, that all of verse 25 is pertaining to the first 69 weeks. When you add verse 25 and 27 together you are supposed to end up with 70 weeks total, not 69 and 1/2 weeks instead. Except a lot of you have verse 27 only involving the first half of the 70th week. Except the 70th week is not 3.5 years, it is 7 years. Except the 70 weeks involve 70 weeks total, not 69 and 1/2 weeks total. But let's just throw a monkey wrench into that and have verse 25 and 27 combined to only be involving 69 and 1/2 weeks total rather than 70 weeks total.

But maybe I need to give up altogether and just admit that it is pointless in me trying to reason with mindsets such as yours, when it comes to a subject such as this. You are not even remotely being reasonable about verse 27 by at least admitting that not only is the beginning and the middle recorded in that verse, so is the last half recorded in that verse. But some of you would rather rely upon speculation instead of what is already plainly written in that verse. Let's just speculate how and when the 70 weeks ended. Let's not use any of the text to help us determine that, text such as---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. IOW, in this case, speculation--good idea, interpreting Scripture with Scripture--bad idea.

Your conclusion, being as far out there as anyone elses, is the results of your own mind attempting to understand prophecy through the wisdom of men, aka human understanding.
I believe we all must think differently. Not as men, but rather as God.
1 Cor. 2
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Let's think on Isa. 55:8-9 and then let it be that we each ourselves, who are of faith in Jesus, understand that we ARE the New earth of God's permanent dwelling place.
So I ask you,... where Jesus has ascended to now, for the past 2000+ years,.....is He living on a New earth, or within an old earth?

Did you know that when you come to terms with the fact that we each are literaly the New earth, every word in the gospels that speak of a new heaven and a new earth can be read and understood in that way.

Here is one for example: "Your house is left unto you desolate". Your house can be your mortal body, a potential place for God's indwelling. To be left desolate, is for one to be empty, abandoned and void of God.

Seriously....does Jesus need a literal New planet earth? Not really. In fact, He hasn't needed one yet, and its been 2000+ years.
But, let's ask Christ and God the Father where it is that THEY prefer to be.
John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

So now, if the Holy Spirit of God be within you, can you entertain the thought of WHERE everlasting righteousness does dwell?
Surely you weren't thinking that YOU had any righteousness of your own!
2 Peter 3
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I can see that. It was entertaining! You’re doubling down on that flawed doctrine of yours by chopping the Olivet Discourse into two events. Bold and… original. Meanwhile, you’re the one confidently spreading the falsehood that ‘All partial preterists are amillennialists.’ Talk about irony. LOL.

You are a real piece of work. An Amillennialist is someone who believes that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection and that Satan has been bound since then and that the thousand years is symbolic and precedes Christ's return rather than follows it. So, yes, any partial preterist who believes those things is an Amillennialist. Deal with it. I'm not happy to be grouped with them, either, but when it comes to what Amillennialism means, it includes people who disagree on some other things. You are not the one to decide who is or is not an Amillennialist, that's for sure.

Well... the Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

As I said before, it's good that you're comfortable with that. It would be very bad if you weren't.

 

[covenantee]

Obviously, everlasting righteousness can't logically fit within an age that is finite, such as the age we are currently in.

Since you don't believe that the righteousness that Messiah brought in is everlasting, then it must have ended at some point.

When did it end?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since you don't believe that the righteousness that Messiah brought in is everlasting, then it must have ended at some point.

When did it end?

Excellent question. I don't expect that he will answer it because he normally disappears after questions are asked that he can't answer and that expose his false claims.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are a real piece of work.

You call me a ‘real piece of work’? Good. The truth has a way of getting under people’s skin, doesn’t it?

An Amillennialist is someone who believes that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection

An Amillennialist believes Jesus has been reigning His kingdom since His resurrection — that’s a biblical fact, not a theory.

When He confirmed the covenant WITH His millennial kingdom. Not Jewish Israelites and their animals and temple.

Satan has been bound since then

The Pharisees, Scribes, and all external believers of the Old Testament congregation, with the spirit of Satan as the ‘stones’—fell away, and the kingdom’s representation was taken FROM them. Christ gave it to His New Testament believers in three days, not to a physical nation clinging to a ruined temple.

the thousand years is symbolic and precedes Christ's return

Of course, that thousand years is symbolic, a spiritual reign that began long ago, at the Cross, before Christ returns.

So, yes, any partial preterist who believes those things is an Amillennialist. Deal with it.

Of course not! To claim otherwise by forcing the 70 weeks of Daniel to end in 70 AD with a literal temple and animal sacrifices? Absurd. That’s your misinterpretation born out of a false system of preterism!

I'm not happy to be grouped with them

Awww...

but when it comes to what Amillennialism means it includes people who disagree on some other things.

not with your interpreation based on the Preterism doctrine of animal sacrifice, temple falling, and 70AD. Its false.

You are not the one to decide who is or is not an Amillennialist, that's for sure.

No one else gets to decide my theology — Scripture does. And I’m comfortable standing firm on that.

As I said before, it's good that you're comfortable with that.

Thanks for the ‘warning.’ I’ve heard it all before.

 

[covenantee]

Of course not! To claim otherwise by forcing the 70 weeks of Daniel to end in 70 AD with a literal temple and animal sacrifices? Absurd. That’s your misinterpretation born out of a false system of preterism!

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus was the greatest preterist who ever lived. He fulfilled every OT prophecy about Himself decades before 70 AD.

Have you told Him that He was wrong to do that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You call me a ‘real piece of work’? Good. The truth has a way of getting under people’s skin, doesn’t it?

You tell me. I've clearly gotten under your skin. I don't know how me saying you're a piece of work makes you think you've gotten under mine. That's quite a stretch.

An Amillennialist believes Jesus has been reigning His kingdom since His resurrection — that’s a biblical fact, not a theory.

That's what I said. Hello?

When He confirmed the covenant WITH His millennial kingdom. Not Jewish Israelites and their animals and temple.

LOL! When did I say He confirmed the covenant with "Jewish Israeites and their animals and temple"? Nowhere. You're not even trying here. Only believers are under the new covenant. But, it was first confirmed in Israel before going to the Gentiles. This is a prophecy about Israel in particular. It was still a mystery then that Gentile believers would be included in the new covenant.

The Pharisees, Scribes, and all external believers of the Old Testament congregation, with the spirit of Satan as the ‘stones’—fell away, and the kingdom’s representation was taken FROM them. Christ gave it to His New Testament believers in three days, not to a physical nation clinging to a ruined temple.

LOL! Hello? I did not say otherwise. Nice job of wasting time with straw man arguments. Time that you can't get back.

Of course, that thousand years is symbolic, a spiritual reign that began long ago, at the Cross, before Christ returns.

That's what I said. I believe the things that define Amillennialism, silly. It does not require believing all the other beliefs that you have to yourself.

Of course not! To claim otherwise by forcing the 70 weeks of Daniel to end in 70 AD with a literal temple and animal sacrifices? Absurd. That’s your misinterpretation born out of a false system of preterism!

LOL. That's like saying Jesus will return in the future is born out of a false system of futurism or dispensationalism even though I do not hold to either system. You have nothing of substance to offer.

No one else gets to decide my theology — Scripture does. And I’m comfortable standing firm on that.

Good for you. Pat yourself on the back, buddy.

Thanks for the ‘warning.’ I’ve heard it all before.

What warning? LOL.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus was the greatest preterist who ever lived. He fulfilled every OT prophecy about Himself decades before 70 AD.

Have you told Him that He was wrong to do that?

Not Preterism version. It's Amillennialism version. Read the context:

Luk 24:44-49
(44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
(45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
(48) And ye are witnesses of these things.
(49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

You are the one who is mistaken. Every Old Testament prophecy about Messiah—both in the Old and New Testaments—pertains to the entire seventy weeks, including His covenant week tied to the millennial kingdom. This is when repentance and remission of sins are preached to all nations. The prophecy did not end in Jerusalem; that was only the beginning. Believers are still awaiting the empowerment of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to start carrying out the Great Commission in the millennial kingdom. There is no prophecy about the physical temple’s fall in 70 AD, nor is there any truth to your false claim that Daniel’s seventy weeks ended in 70 AD.

Selah!

 

[Davidpt]

Your conclusion, being as far out there as anyone elses, is the results of your own mind attempting to understand prophecy through the wisdom of men, aka human understanding.
I believe we all must think differently. Not as men, but rather as God.
1 Cor. 2
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Let's think on Isa. 55:8-9 and then let it be that we each ourselves, who are of faith in Jesus, understand that we ARE the New earth of God's permanent dwelling place.
So I ask you,... where Jesus has ascended to now, for the past 2000+ years,.....is He living on a New earth, or within an old earth?

Did you know that when you come to terms with the fact that we each are literaly the New earth, every word in the gospels that speak of a new heaven and a new earth can be read and understood in that way.

Here is one for example: "Your house is left unto you desolate". Your house can be your mortal body, a potential place for God's indwelling. To be left desolate, is for one to be empty, abandoned and void of God.

Seriously....does Jesus need a literal New planet earth? Not really. In fact, He hasn't needed one yet, and its been 2000+ years.
But, let's ask Christ and God the Father where it is that THEY prefer to be.
John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.

So now, if the Holy Spirit of God be within you, can you entertain the thought of WHERE everlasting righteousness does dwell?
Surely you weren't thinking that YOU had any righteousness of your own!
2 Peter 3
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

What I was thinking is this, though. 2 Peter 3:13 wasn't already applicable 2000 years ago when Peter spoke those words. And that verse is still not applicable as we speak. I don't know what you are trying to conflate with what here, but everlasting righteousness can't be brought in until the new heavens and new earth are brought in first. Then everything fits since the NHNE involve an everlasting age, an age everlasting righteousness can fit in. The key word is 'everlasting' and that righteousness is connected with it. No finite age is everlasting. That is a contradiction.

Maybe your idea of everlasting righteousness is something like such? Crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked politicians, crooked cops, so on and so on, that this is the result of everlasting righteousness having been brought in? That this is a fine example of what everlasting righteousness looks like when it has been brought in? But guess what, though? When the NHNE are ushered in during the 2nd coming there will no longer be any of the following throughout the earth---Crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked politicians, crooked cops, so on and so on, thus, it will then be a place wherein dwelleth righteousness, and not a place wherein righteousness does not dwell within, such as now. Even if there is a thousand years following His return, none of it will have any of this taking place throughout the earth---Crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked politicians, crooked cops, so on and so on. Imagine a millennium with Crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked politicians, crooked cops, so on and so on. Oh, wait a minute, we already have an alleged millennium like that. Amil's proposed millennium.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You tell me. I've clearly gotten under your skin. I don't know how me saying you're a piece of work makes you think you've gotten under mine. That's quite a stretch.

You clearly think you’re clever, but you’re just recycling weak talking points that miss the heart of the matter. Getting under my skin? That’s laughable — I’m focused on truth, not insults.

That's what I said. Hello?

Shhh. I was clarifying for the readers here.

LOL! When did I say He confirmed the covenant with "Jewish Israeites and their animals and temple"? Nowhere. You're not even trying here. Only believers are under the new covenant. But, it was first confirmed in Israel before going to the Gentiles. This is a prophecy about Israel in particular. It was still a mystery then that Gentile believers would be included in the new covenant.

If you believer the mystery that the Gentiles believers would be included in the New Covenant, then it can't end in 70AD, humm?

LOL! Hello? I did not say otherwise. Nice job of wasting time with straw man arguments. Time that you can't get back.

Really? Are you sure you read what I wrote carefully? You agreed with me that the Pharisees, Scribes, and all external believers are the "stones" falling of Matthew 24:1-2. LOL!!!!

That's what I said. I believe the things that define Amillennialism, silly. It does not require believing all the other beliefs that you have to yourself.

Shhh. Again, I am clarifying for the readers here. Remember my posts were not all for you but the readers here. So that there wont be misunderstanding on our positions.

LOL. That's like saying Jesus will return in the future is born out of a false system of futurism or dispensationalism even though I do not hold to either system. You have nothing of substance to offer.

Because you are blind to what Scripture says: Christ will return at the consummation...after he has confirmed a covenant with His Millennial Kingdom. Not 70AD. Duh!

Good for you. Pat yourself on the back, buddy.

Thank you. Unforuentely, for you, I put a note: "I will realize that I am wrong with my doctrine on Judgment day" on your back.

What warning? LOL.

Read your previous comment and THINK.